Shame on Rachel.

[Sogo]

Reporting the fantastical scenerio....

Helping to suppress the vote.

[fishwax]

1. how does it suppress the vote?

It makes me all the more motivated. I imagine I'm not alone in that.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. Definitely not alone - but it absolutely discourages voters.

Already seeing it on twitter. Why vote if they're just going to steal it anyway?

[fishwax]

16. that seems more like those people trying to discourage the vote. Which is different from what

Rachel is doing.

That's the attitude that needs to be countered. Not the observation/reporting that this is, indeed, a potentially dangerous situation that has the potential to get worse. Because it is.

The best way to avoid them trying to pull this sort of BS, the best way to prevent powerful voices from joining and supporting that BS effort, is to offer a major show at the polls. Vote.

[Thekaspervote]

68. Yes.. this kind of dark scenario is infective. And yes, it hardens the resolve of some but weakens

Others.

Think about, there are people that are scared shitless by the virus and don’t want to take the risk. Paralyzed by fear they may end up thinking like 16, this one’s in the bag. People react differently.

[Drunken Irishman]

69. Yes. You're getting a dozen mixed messages.

All because the left is reacting to Trump's games.

So many on the left are screaming: VOTE. IN. PERSON. NOT. BY. MAIL. Demanding people stand in lines for five-plus hours if they have to - but forgetting that we're still a pandemic and many polling sites will be closed due to not having enough poll workers to man 'em. Someone who hears that, hears voting by mail is not the right way to go about this election because Trump is going to have those ballots tossed, then saying the only thing you can do is stand in line to vote and wait, wait wait, as you're also telling people that hell it won't matter anyway because Trump is going to steal it ... those messages are just going to force 'em to throw their hands up in the air and say, "what's the point?"

I don't doubt DU is motivated and there's a lot of people motivated to vote Trump out. But we also know a huge number of this country is still not likely to vote and we need the best turnout models possible to win in November, which means those same voters we're scaring about mail-in ballots, and telling them to go mask up and vote in person, even if they have to spend hours at their polling place, are also going to be the voters who are discouraged by the idea waiting in line for five hours, in the middle of a pandemic, might not even matter anyway.

Once that message takes hold, we lose.

[Jeebo]

71. "Why vote if they're just going to steal it anyway?"

My answer to that is that if they're going to cheat to win, and even if they're going to get away with it, WE STILL HAVE TO MAKE THEM ACTUALLY DO IT. Because when we stop even trying to stop them, THAT'S when they've TRULY won. As long as we're doing everything we can to oppose them, they haven't won yet. So we've got to keep on donating, volunteering, phone banking, campaigning, and especially VOTING. And getting ready to deal with their post-election shenanigans.

-- Ron

[Drunken Irishman]

73. Yes but that's not how it works in the real world.

People are not as motivated as we are on DU. There's a lot of people in this country who can passively tolerate just enough of Donald Trump. Give them a reason to NOT vote and they won't. We saw it in 2016 with the left, those who said there was no difference between Hillary and Trump, and now we're seeing it manifest in this bs. We can't be under the illusion that most voters are diehards either way. They're not. Most voters are just going to shrug at the results and go on with their lives.

THOSE voters we can't risk not voting because we've convinced them he's going to steal it no matter what.

[RhodeIslandOne]

77. You know what will really discourage voters?

Another 2000.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. Well keep at it and we'll get both.

[RhodeIslandOne]

81. Bullshit

You'll have to put a bullet through my head to stop my vote from being counted.

[Drunken Irishman]

84. lmao you're not who I worry about...

No one on DU has issues with being motivated to vote. But there's a lot of Americans out there, as we can see based on polling alone, that are completely passive about this election and we need their votes just as much, if not more, than a few hundred posters on some political website.

2016 was lost because voters stayed home - not feeling empowered with their vote and buying the line that it didn't matter who they voted for. To you, you might be willing to do just about anything ... but for a chunk of this country, when the election is over, they'll just shrug and go about their daily lives. We still need their votes, though.

[Sogo]

6. Suppresses the vote because it makes people feel helpless and that

it doesn't matter if they vote 'cause their vote won't count.

Hysteria.

[fishwax]

19. I think energies are best spent countering the helplessness. Not attacking the messenger.

This is shit worth getting worked up over. And the best thing to do with that energy is to get out the vote. It's the best action we have against this scenario.

[Hekate]

83. I've seen RM in many moods, some quite adamant, but never hysterical. Did you choose that word...

...because she is a woman?

[Rule of Claw]

2. Rachel is not wrong to report a story

but it would be good if she pointed out the sheer improbability of it.

[rzemanfl]

8. You can say that thirty more times. n/t

[Thekaspervote]

18. The sheer improbability..exactly

If you start unrolling this fanatical scenario piece by piece, state by state, law by law and the sheer number of players, Democrats, repukes, Supreme Court justices that would have to go along....there is just no way!!

[Sogo]

34. Yes, you are correct.

Her doomsday scenerio should have been tempered by noting, as you say, "the sheer improbability" of it. Why give it more power? She might have also pointed out the antidote to it, as many here have mentioned - being motivated to vote.

Thank you to Adam Schiff for dialing back her hysteria....

[Hekate]

99. Adam Schiff didn't "dial back her hysteria"-- he seconded every one of her facts

Both are rational adults in possession of devastating facts. It was Schiff who said, “This is how democracies die.”

So you hate Rachel. That’s a personal problem. Move on.

[Boogiemack]

40. Was there not an elector who was supposed to vote for HRC but voted for Trump in 2016?

Don't say it can't be done. 20 years ago, a letter was circulated to blacks in churches about how the Voting Right's Act was going to be taken away. No one could believe it and thought it was fantasy. Many didn't even know that the legislation had a sunset provision.

Well, here we are today. Now what?

[Boogiemack]

45. Here is the answer to my own question.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-candidates-did-the-seven-faithless-electors-support-election-2016/
There were in fact, seven "faithless" electors...most were faithless to HRC.

[Thekaspervote]

72. Here's the SCOTUS ruling on faithless electors from 7/20

It also talks about how electors are chosen..guess what it isn’t the legislators!! The law also has some things to say about this issue about half way down

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/14/supreme-courts-faithless-electors-decision-validates-case-for-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact/

[qazplm135]

78. Why is it improbable?

It's only improbable because we choose to believe that republican legislatures wouldn't try it.

And yet the chair of the PA republican party is on the record saying this is a fine option/idea.

I'm not of the there's no point in voting camp, I am in the vote in person, preferably early if you can camp. Obviously if you can't, then vote by mail, but the closer the in person voting is, the harder Trump will have it to try this scheme.

Dr. Fauci has said in person voting is safe with mask usage, so this isn't an irresponsible option.

And winning the Senate stops this plan too so voting is doubly important.

But this isn't tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. They are talking about it, state party officials and legislators are advocating it. Doesn't mean it's going to work, but I'm always going to be leery in the Trump era of trusting any republican to do what's right.

[mzmolly]

3. I'm voting early and in person because

of this reporting.

[bullwinkle428]

9. I'm doing the same, counter to my original plan of a mail-in ballot.

[sweetloukillbot]

5. She thrives on "talk me down" scenarios nt

[tman]

7. I agree. Switch it off and vote.

It isn't helping like some on here think it is.

[rzemanfl]

13. My ballot isn't here yet but I need to get some stuff out of the dryer. n/t

[Hekate]

61. I know how you feel. After so many loads there's a lot of...

...socks to sort out. I didn’t even realize how many holes there were in the socks till I really looked today.

[rzemanfl]

64. Thanks for commiserating. n/t

[4now]

10. That is what she does

[SergeStorms]

11. What do you want?

Fuzzy bunnies? Cute little tweety birds? This shit is happening, and if we don't prepare for it all will be lost. Jebus!

[mzmolly]

14. Right. She's pointing out that Republican led legislatures have been contacted

by the Trump campaign to plan for this shit. The theft is in process. Our only hope is to vote him out so soundly that he can't fake 'mass fraud.'

[Drunken Irishman]

23. This logic is baffling.

If he's going to have the Republican-led legislatures just throw their support to him on the belief that there's mass-fraud over mail-in ballots, why do you think the margin matters? If they go along with it because of the supposed fraud, it won't matter if it's 5% or 25% - fraud is fraud.

Rachel is absolutely discouraging people to vote with this attitude. Why do you think Russia has such a low voter turnout? Not the 'fake' turnout numbers the state releases - but actual turnout as monitored by third parties? It's because they know the election results won't matter. Putin is going to win regardless. That's how dictators work. They intimidate. Trump is trying to intimidate voters from voting and Rachel, the fool that she is, is taking the bait.

[mzmolly]

25. I disagree. Should we pretend that various legislatures

have not been contacted by Trump's camp?

I don't think the argument is that Trump will win regardless. It's that we can't let him get close enough to steal it. It's that we have one last shot to save our democracy.

Please watch the show, then comment on the content.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Reporting is different than fanning the flames like Rachel is doing. She's careless.

And again, if Trump's plan is just to get the legislature to vote for him on the basis it's all fraud, the margin won't matter.

[mzmolly]

33. Please watch the show if you can.

Adam Schiff is also rightly concerned. That doesn't mean nothing can be done. It means we need to prepare.

[Drunken Irishman]

38. I'll pass. I've had enough freak out from DUers to get me through the week.

It's amazing how easily the left is played by Trump, though. He got exactly what he wanted. Everyone is talking about how he's going to steal the election and not the fact he's actually losing the election or the 200,000 dead. It's a win-win for him. The talk fires up his base to go vote and makes Democrats worry that no matter what is done, he'll be declared the winner anyway, therefore discouraging voting.

It's amazing at how embarrassingly stupid many on the left can when when it comes to Trump's crazy rants.

[Sogo]

42. Psyops....

It's a thing....

[mzmolly]

56. So is

Trump's desire to be a dictator.

[Thekaspervote]

85. Think about this ..in the end SCOTUS even a conservative one will have to subvert the will of the

Voters and name him dictator.

Really?

[mzmolly]

86. The question will be

what 'was' the will of the voters? What votes are valid? What votes should be tossed? Is there mass mail fraud? Who decides that?

Let's make it undeniable.

[Hekate]

101. I have not gotten over Bush v Gore. I bet Kavanaugh hasn't either, but in a whole different way....

He was one of the Brooks Brothers Rioters that shut down the vote counting in Florida that year.

[Hekate]

79. Are you effing accusing Rachel Maddow of psyops? Please speak plainly, Sogo.

I breathlessly await.

[mzmolly]

43. What's amazing is that some don't take

him seriously.

I've read the book by Mary Trump and am reading Michael Cohen's book. They have both said he'll do whatever it takes to remain in power. I trust those who know him and his words on the matter.

The reason he's plotting is because he's losing in the polls.

Remember you read it here first and insinuated that I and others are 'embarrassingly stupid' for seeing the plan Trump is laying out in advance. He's going to proclaim he won the election early and that all the 'fraudulent mail in votes' should be tossed. Do you disagree?

[Drunken Irishman]

53. Trump thrives on chaos and fear.

It's not hard to see what he's doing. He's losing the campaign so he's attempting to spread a bunch of bullshit to change the narrative and discourage voting. Again, notice no one is talking about the fact he trails by ten nationally right now? Or the fact we've eclipsed 200,000 dead? Nope. The focus is now squarely on his not accepting the election results. So, we get a narrative about how he can steal the election and how it's entirely possible, if not probable, all the while, the narrative about him losing slowly goes away because the entire focus is on his babbling, rambling ass. He wants that chaos. He wants that fear.

You're feeding into it. Rachel is feeding into it. Every day we're talking about how he's going to steal the election is a day we're not talking about how he's a weak incumbent with a shitty record who is LOSING REELECTION.

[mzmolly]

62. My POV Is that we need to educate in order to plan.

Not that we give up.

The fear is warranted, according to those who know him. He's not a chess player. He's a rambling narcissistic idiot who can't accept loss.

[Drunken Irishman]

66. Sure which proves my point.

Just because he rambles doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The odds of what Rachel and them are giving fuel to are extremely small.

We need to prepare for real threats - not ones Trump is using it distract us.

The biggest continues to be voter suppression and making sure we're informing people on how to cast their ballots CORRECETLY.

Those are infinitely more important right now than scaring the pants off people with Trump's delusions. We need to be focused on getting people to the polls, making sure they understand how to properly fill out a ballot, when to request it and when it mail it by so that we can win because I guarantee you that is more pressing at this moment than Trump's failed delusions.

[Thekaspervote]

74. Thank you!!

[mzmolly]

90. I think we can take him seriously

and make sure people know how to fill out a ballot.

[Drunken Irishman]

94. Considering there's been like five threads in the last hour about people saying they're freaking out

...I think this goes beyond just taking him seriously.

People who are freaking out are by definition not rational. we need to be rational and calm in all this. Something Rachel wasn't - or didn't attempt to convey based on the response here.

[Sogo]

95. This.

[mzmolly]

102. She reported on the Atlantic

story as did many of the anchors on MSNBC. It's not irrational to discuss that.

We do need calm and hopefully that will come with a plan and a response from Biden's team.

Any thoughts on this story from Forbes? https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/23/report-trump-campaign-actively-discussing-radical-measures-to-bypass-election-results/#35da05204800

[Sogo]

63. +1,000,000

[Thekaspervote]

44. +1000

[UCmeNdc]

98. PSA by the FBI helps clarification

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214125912

[Sogo]

39. Agreed, Drunken Irishman....

[Thekaspervote]

32. please do some reading on this. You'll feel better.

It would require literally thousands of players, not just repuke legislators, but democratic governors, a SCOTUS that is completely on board, and all these players would have to be willing to undo the will of the voters and make him dictator.

Seriously!

Is he gonna try shit yes, are we without power or ability to act, not react...NO!

[SergeStorms]

36. Thank you.

Sanity is in short supply lately, on both sides of the aisle.

[mzmolly]

37. He's trying to get the SCOTUS

on board. He's telegraphing almost daily.

Please watch the show if you can as it discussed the Gore ruling from 2000 and how it can impact this election.

I agree we have the power to act. But we also need to plan accordingly.

[Sogo]

46. Joyce Vance said that now that voting has begun, the justice he appoints

would have to recuse her/him self.

[mzmolly]

49. I think that's the appropriate

action but is it required? And who upholds the requirement, if so?

[Sogo]

51. Justice Roberts should have some say in it....

I doubt he would want his legacy to be that his court was a rubber stamp for Trump.

[mzmolly]

52. I'm not counting

on it.

[Thekaspervote]

59. Answer me this- do you really think that the Roberts court is willing to subvert the vote, undo the

Will of the people and appoint him dictator?

Yes, it’s a conservative court, but no they are not going to do that!

Adam Schiff, yes is concerned, we all should be. But whoever thought up this scheme....it has more moving parts and willing players than NASA trying to launch a space shuttle

[mzmolly]

65. I didn't think the SCOTUS

would give Bush the election in 2000.

The only parts that are needed are some in a few key swing states and a SCOTUS with a clear right wing majority.

[Thekaspervote]

92. 2000 was a completely different scenario. A legit recount and a poorly designed ballot

Again, answer me this...you think even a conservative court is going to sign off on state legislators willing to break several laws including removing duly appointed electors and install a dictator? Really?

Look at the link below, about half way down....a SCOTUS ruling handed down this summer... it is about faithless electors, but this issue is addressed. Pretty much sums it up


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/14/supreme-courts-faithless-electors-decision-validates-case-for-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact/

[melman]

97. You keep saying "name him dictator"

It feels like you're doing this to make the scenario seem more outlandish. They wouldn't have to "name him dictator".


They'd just have to decide a case in a way that would give him a second term. Would they vote on a case like this in a partisan political way rather than on the merits in order to make that happen? Of course they fucking would.

I find it unbelievable to see someone suggest they would not.

[MOMFUDSKI]

47. I live in Florida

and I know this would be very likely to happen. Toss the ballots and allow the ELECTORS to assign the win to Trump. And Florida is all you need to win the election. This isn't going to have to happen in many states at all. And why not hear these scenarios now instead of getting caught with one's pants down? MY vote will not be suppressed because of a TV show.

[Thekaspervote]

88. He needs more than just FL to win. Deathsantis is nuts yes. biden would appeal this to SCOTUS

And would win HANDS DOWN even to a very conservative court. Below is part of a ruling handed down this past summer by SCOTUS. Yes, it’s about faithless electors but covers this issue clearly.

And second, the Court’s decision reinforces the validity of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Under National Popular Vote, states that combine for at least 270 electoral votes agree to award their electors to the presidential candidate who wins the most individual votes across the nation. (Fifteen states and the District of Columbia, totaling 196 electoral votes, have already passed the measure.)

In the 18 states currently without faithless elector laws, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact would operate in a manner identical to the system that they have been using for over 200 years. In these states (which currently use the state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes), the presidential electors are chosen by the political party whose presidential candidate receives the most popular votes inside the state, and there are no additional requirements placed upon the elector.

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact would operate in the same way, except that the presidential electors would be persons chosen by the political party whose presidential candidate receives the most popular votes across all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/14/supreme-courts-faithless-electors-decision-validates-case-for-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact/

[BigmanPigman]

30. That is exactily what they want.

Chris Hayes did a much more in depth report on the Atlantic article and I am glad Rachel covered it too. We must know as much info as possible. I am going to be prepared to fight, not hide my head in the sand. I am an activist. I am a patriot. I am ready for tRump and the GOP and Putin to use everything in their arsenal to reelect tRump (illegally).

[mzmolly]

48. Exactly!

[Boogiemack]

54. I just don't understand some people. Why say it will depress the votes? Why not say

we have to damn sure make certain it doesn't happen by getting on this right away. No wonder the GOP beats us up so much. They fight from every coroner of the ring and we just want to throw in the towel. At least, act like it matters.

[Me.]

12. Totally Agree

absolutely unprofessional

[USALiberal]

24. Pure BS! It is a story that needs discussed. Head in sand your solution?? nt

[Me.]

27. Heads Are Not On The Sand

Schiff just said that Biden and Congress are working on the election and what everyone else needs to do is get out and vote Biden in on a landslide. This scenario is totally improbable but Barton Gellman will get all those clicks he is seeking.

[USALiberal]

31. She needs to cover it, Trump is a serious threat. And it WILL help get votes, not hurt! nt

[FloridaBlues]

17. The republicans are messing with the media and the people don't get freaked

Voters know how to vote for many decades
Try to leave some of the noise at the door
Just go to ballot box and vote overwhelmingly and he will be taking away

[Codeine]

20. Cable news is entertainment, even Maddow.

This is her schtick, just like she draws out a story with little teasers but takes forever to get to the point. She’s putting on a show.

[mzmolly]

29. It's informative

in this case. Take this seriously, per Adam Schiff who is on Maddow tonight.

[Codeine]

67. Oh, I agree she's informative.

But one shouldn’t buy too heavily into her play-acting.

[SophieJean]

96. Play acting?

Try actually reading the Atlantic article and, if anything, it should make Dems want to vote no matter what! We can't stick our heads in the sand, because trump and his henchmen will do anything.

[bdamomma]

21. Rachel is not

to fault, this should all make us VOTE to stop this POS. It motivates me to VOTE, this moron is unfit.

[Nexus2]

22. Schiff is on now

He seems to be in agreement its a threat, that Trump has been telegraphing his intent.

[mzmolly]

26. Exactly.

We'd have to be blind not to see it!

[dweller]

35. 23 days

to early in person voting in NC ...
Oct 15 - 31

i'll be there everyday if need be to vote twice ... what? i can't vote twice?
i'll name fatnixon as my co-conspirator... he told me to vote twice !


✌🏼

[Autumn]

41. It does nothing to suppress the vote.

Shame on anyone who says it does.

[Sogo]

50. See post #4.

[Autumn]

87. I'm going to trust what Rachel and Schiff have to say over some poster on a message board.

If they say it's a threat, it's a damn threat.

[triron]

91. Me too.

[Crunchy Frog]

55. Shame on you.

The "president" today announced his intention to ignore the choice of the voters and carry out a coup. This is big news. Rachel covered it.

How dare you attack her FOR DOING THE JOB OF A JOURNALIST!

This sounds like a talking point from Russia.

[USALiberal]

57. 2 refs should tell you something! Nt

[Rice4VP]

58. I changed to Forensic Files

She’s better than that

[budkin]

60. I don't watch cable news

What did she say?

[nocoincidences]

70. Is there such a thing as a

"Faithless Poster?"

[RhodeIslandOne]

75. If anything it should motivate EVERYONE to vote

And check all t's and dot all i's

I do not see anything wrong with that.

[UCmeNdc]

76. No you better go vote. Get mad and vote at all costs, dare Trump to steal you vote.

If Trump does THen get into the streets with the young people.

[DeminPennswoods]

82. MSNBC has been racheting up the fearmongering

all week. Hayes was just as hysterical. It even infected the usually level-headed Nicolle Wallace today.

[ecstatic]

89. I'm watching it now. It's terrifying, but at least it's being exposed now

It helps to throw cold water on trump's evil plans.

Now WTF are we going to do to prevent this from happening?!

Because if it goes down like this, we all need to understand that the United States as it existed is over with.

[kacekwl]

93. I remember hearing trump can never win in 2016.

In the past 4 years I recall hearing trump can't do this or the republicans won't do that. I've heard a lot of things trump and his cabal have done that they said couldn't be done. Yet here we are and if you think it's just scare tactics and intimidation think again. I put nothing past the whole lot of the traitors anymore. To scold Rachel is irresponsible she's a hero in my mind for so many reasons.

[meadowlander]

100. The best way to avoid the scenario is an overwhelming Biden lead.

That encourages the vote, it doesn't suppress it.