HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » You are a socialist if yo...

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:38 PM

You are a socialist if you believe in . . .

Unemployment insurance funded by the insured

Jobs programs for the unemployed

Public assistance to mothers with dependent children

Health insurance for all even with pre-existing conditions

Public education

Public libraries

Government funding for the arts

Feeding the poor ($256 per household a month)

Food inspection

Facemask required in an infectious pandemic

Occupational safety regulations

Clean water

Clear air

Citizen funded social security benefits

US Post Office

Public transportation

Tax fairness

You are a Repubican if you don't

43 replies, 1065 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply You are a socialist if you believe in . . . (Original post)
Edwcraig Sep 25 OP
LakeArenal Sep 25 #1
BlueJac Sep 25 #2
lapucelle Sep 25 #3
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #7
Budi Sep 25 #13
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #18
Budi Sep 25 #23
lapucelle Sep 25 #32
brooklynite Sep 25 #38
mercuryblues Sep 25 #42
Budi Sep 25 #4
JHB Sep 25 #5
Budi Sep 25 #8
JHB Sep 25 #12
Budi Sep 25 #15
JHB Sep 25 #21
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #14
Budi Sep 25 #16
PETRUS Sep 25 #28
Yavin4 Sep 25 #20
JHB Sep 25 #22
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 25 #6
AllaN01Bear Sep 25 #9
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #10
Budi Sep 25 #17
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #26
Budi Sep 25 #29
mr_lebowski Sep 25 #41
Thomas Hurt Sep 25 #11
Yavin4 Sep 25 #19
DeltaLitProf Sep 25 #25
Yavin4 Sep 25 #27
lapucelle Sep 25 #34
Yavin4 Sep 25 #36
lapucelle Sep 25 #40
Patterson Sep 25 #31
Trumpocalypse Sep 25 #39
Chainfire Sep 25 #24
Budi Sep 25 #30
lpbk2713 Sep 25 #33
Tribetime Sep 25 #35
brooklynite Sep 25 #37
Hekate Sep 25 #43

Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:40 PM

1. Right to our Constitutional protection that our bodies are our bodies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:40 PM

2. I'm in!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:43 PM

3. That's not socialism. N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:49 PM

7. Perhaps not but they're all things a proper Socialism-based society would have ...

Just sayin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:53 PM

13. Nope. What's a "proper Socialism-based society "?

That's not correct, & saying it over & over doesn't make so.

That is a false statemtent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:08 PM

18. I would say a country that calls itself 'Socialist' that doesnt' have most if not all things on that

list (along with, you know, the government controlling all means of production, a situation which doesn't exist in the world right now TTBOMK) ... is failing at Socialism.

They'd be 'missing the point'.

MHO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:22 PM

23. The 'selling of Socialism' in a Democratic Republic is pure bs

Dressing up socialism to appear to look like our Democracy is a lie as well.

Ask Venezuela how socialism turned out for them.

It's bs & I'll never support the ruse of socialism so this is as far as this debate goes.

Carry on..
Purely speaking, Socialism as a means of production would really suck for this country..


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 05:06 PM

32. What exactly is "unemployment insurance funded by the insured"?

Who exactly are "the insured"?

It sounds as if the expectation is that the workers who are "insured" (i.e. eligible to receive unemployment benefits) should themselves be funding the program. That's not how it works in NYS where I live.

The New York Unemployment Insurance Law, Article 18 of the New York State Labor Law, requires employers to fund the state's unemployment system by paying state employment taxes. Employers may not collect contributions from their employees to help them subsidize their tax liabilities.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/formsdocs/ui/P820.pdf


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:11 PM

38. As with any good DU thread, the OP drops a grenade and doesn't stay to discuss it...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:45 PM

42. It isn't

But it is using Socialism tongue in cheek.

A version of:



John F. Kennedy
“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:45 PM

4. Those are the gifts & basic tenats of the Democratic Party

Held strong & hard fought for over the many years.


In case it's ever forgotten.

Just sayin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:45 PM

5. None of that is socialism. Stop letting ranting-crank conservatives define the debate

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JHB (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:49 PM

8. Socialism has an entirely diffrent meaning.

Socialism is the means of production

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:53 PM

12. Don't tell me, tell the OP

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JHB (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:56 PM

15. We are in agreement.

I find that a majority if those I see using the word socialism don't actually know it's true meaning.
It's become a loosely used word.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:13 PM

21. It's part of the mainstreaming of conservative terminology, forcing debate onto their terms

They have always expansively used terms like "socialist" and "communist" so that they include just about every policy and program they don't like.

And all top often, nobody challenges them when they inject their ranting-crank version into normal discussions, effectively acquiescing to the more radical usage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:56 PM

14. It's not entirely different ...

Any proper 'Socialist' country would also have everything that's in the list.

Just sayin'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:06 PM

16. Socialism is a means of production.

Many socialist countries have attempted the utopian end game, but succomb to dictator rule once the total earning power is held in the hands of the govt.

Venezuela, for instance.

Socialism is the means of production.
How gov't distributes the wealth of production is no longer socialism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:53 PM

28. What do you think you know about Venezuela's economy?

If you're willing to read this - https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/01/27/norway-is-far-more-socialist-than-venezuela/ - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:11 PM

20. It's very different. A true Socialist would be offended by that list.

They would call it a sell out because it leaves Capitalism in place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:18 PM

22. But since none of those things are unique to socialism, it does not make you a socialist...

...to want or have those things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:46 PM

6. Lol no.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:49 PM

9. my late mom put it this way. if feeding the poor , takeing care of the sick and eldry,

paying for roads , schools . etc make me liberal, so be it .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:50 PM

10. You forgot Protections for the Right of Workers to Organize (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:07 PM

17. You're conflating Socialism with Democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:38 PM

26. Hardly. Workers Right to Organize have nothing inherently to do with Democracy ...

A Democracy could vote for there to be no Unions whatsoever.

If Socialism was nothing but 'The Government Controls All Means of Production' the collected works of Karl Marx would be considerably shorter than they are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:53 PM

29. Marxism now!

Jeezus. 😬

Bye.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Budi (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:23 PM

41. Nowhere did I say anything like "Marxism Now" ...

I'm only saying if your understanding is that 'Socialism' has absolutely ZERO other tenets or even implication other than 'The Government Controls All Means of Production' ... which seems to be the thrust of your argument on this thread ... then your understanding on the subject is very limited. In fact, it's Communism wherein the government owns and controls all means of production.

Read and learn ...

https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 02:52 PM

11. Socialism, to the christofascist.....

is anything the gov't spends tax dollars on that offends their ideological sensibilities.

IOWs they don't know what socialism is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:10 PM

19. That's not Socialism. That's Social Democracy.

Socialism is the public ownership of all means of production.

Social Democracy is the creation of a strong public sector that acts as insurance against the extremes of Capitalism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:32 PM

25. Source?

n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeltaLitProf (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:39 PM

27. Sources

Social Democracy:

Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy within socialism[1] that supports political and economic democracy.[2] As a policy regime, it is described by academics as advocating economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal-democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented mixed economy. The protocols and norms used to accomplish this involve a commitment to representative and participatory democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and social-welfare provisions


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy


Socialism:

Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems.[10] Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative or of equity.[11] While no single definition encapsulates many types of socialism,[12] social ownership is the one common element.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Social Democracy leaves ownership of the means of production into private hands.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 07:47 PM

34. From your link...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #34)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 07:52 PM

36. Your point is? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Reply #36)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:16 PM

40. Point 1: A bullet list of policy principles can be shared by more than one political philpsophy.

Point 2: The fallacy of false alternative is generally fatal to cogent reasoning.

Hope that helps!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DeltaLitProf (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 04:41 PM

31. It just is.

"Socialism is the public ownership of all means of production."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:13 PM

39. Thanks

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:29 PM

24. If our choices are Socialism or Fascism

I will be a Socialist. Some risks and some rewards need to be shared. Everybody stands on someone else's shoulders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chainfire (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:56 PM

30. I'll take neither populist extreme, & keep & regulate the system we have.

Ask Venezuela how socialism worked out for them.
Ended up, there were no shoulders left to stand on.
No thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 05:15 PM

33. National parks, forests, seashores.



Safe bridges and major highways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 07:50 PM

35. Fire and Police Dept

Social Security
Medicare Medicaid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:09 PM

37. I do and I'm not...

Neither are the people who believe in those things in Norway, Denmark, Sweden...

no - what is the value of trying to resurrect “Socialist” at this point in the Election?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Edwcraig (Original post)

Fri Sep 25, 2020, 08:48 PM

43. I am a Democrat. Kindly don't call me a Socialist bcs I believe in taking care of my fellow citizens

...and the Planet.

I am a Democrat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread