As soon as possible, we must pass a constitutional amendment to

[jorgevlorgan]

Elect our president by popular vote. I suspect this year or the next general election, could get us close to what we would need to end the electoral college A constitutional amendment to elect the president by popular vote would do two things


1) It would abolish the archaic system of the electoral college, and

2) Get rid of any concern that state legislatures could have to unilaterally override the popular vote of their state (which is already basically impossible btw).


It would have a multitude of positive impacts on our system of government, one of which would allow us to actually feel like a democracy for once.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Yeah, good luck with that.

Read the Constitution to see just how that's done, which might offer a clue about why it's so difficult to do and why we still have only 27 amendments out of the almost 12,000 that have been proposed since 1789.

[jorgevlorgan]

2. 2/3rds vote by state legislatures/ congress, 3/4 states ratify

Repugs got really close in 2016 .

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Close isn't enough. The Equal Rights Amendment still hasn't been ratified

even though it was passed in 1972. And that should have been a no-brainer. Low-population rural states would never agree to abolish the EC because it favors them.

[jorgevlorgan]

8. I have a feeling the dynamics are going to change drastically in the very near future

This election could be a real game changer. Maybe, maybe not. Also Im thinking there will be a lot more Republicans supporting it if they get creamed in the electoral college compared to the popular vote.

[onenote]

33. Its more likely that the margin will be greater in the popular vote than in the EV.

[jorgevlorgan]

36. I buy you olive garden if you're right

[onenote]

40. Why would you think the popular vote will be closer than the EV?

Trump lost the popular vote -- badly -- in 2016. He's likely to do even worse this time, but there are still a bunch of states that he is virtually certain to win.

[jorgevlorgan]

41. I think the margin will be greater in the EV because I am betting on Biden winning many states by

closer margins. This is what I think will happen with Biden winning around a 10% margin popular vote.

https://www.270towin.com/

Right now his polling is consistently better than any of Obama's runs, and I also suspect that the polls have been erring on the side of caution by hedging the counts for Democrats (although I don't know what evidence, if any, supports such a thing).

[jorgevlorgan]

42. I also want to point out that both Obama's wins had the EC margin much higher as well, and Biden is

doing much better than Obama.

[global1]

3. I Don't Know If It Can Be Done - But I Would Also Recommend Standardizing Voting Across The U.S.....

instead of every state doing something different. All states should be required to function the same with respect to voting.

[jorgevlorgan]

4. If it can, we could be pretty close after this year and next election.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

5. Abolish the electoral vote and lame duck period.

If a different person is elected, the current president's ability to appoint judges and justices, issue executive orders, sign partisan bills, etc., is terminated. And the inauguration date will be moved up to the last day of November.

[jorgevlorgan]

7. Completely agree

Or at least greatly shorten it.

[Ferrets are Cool]

9. And don't forget pardons. nt

[In It to Win It]

30. this and I'd also be in favor of having the House vote on SCOTUS nominations instead of the Senate.

Since is the House is the closing thing we have to majority rule by population.

[Demsrule86]

10. Such a measure would lose in the states.

It is a waste of time to try.

[jorgevlorgan]

11. It certainly isn't possible right now

But if and when that changes, we need to go for it. I suspect the dynamics to change dramatically after this year and the window for it to happen may be very small.

[dumbcat]

21. What dynamic do you expect to change

... that would entice the smaller population states to give up their advantage? What would have to happen to make them voluntarily relinquish any advantage?

[jorgevlorgan]

22. Plenty of small population states already support it. NH, RI, VT, ME, DE to name a few

Party politics plays a big part, but also the perception about fairness -which overtakes the Republicans every time they lose the EC (2012 comes to mind). Also, adding highly urban small states, as the current small states like Kansas become more urbanized will change the extent how they are and feel represented.

[dumbcat]

26. The question was what dynamic will

cause this change. Are you saying it will be the legislators in the small states, of either party, having conscience attacks about fairness?

[Demsrule86]

28. When push came to shove. I do not believe the states you mentioned would vote for it.

[jorgevlorgan]

32. They have actually already signed on to giving their electoral votes to the popular vote winner

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

We are very close to electing our president by popular vote without a constitutional amendment. Although an amendment would be better.

[Captain Stern]

12. "Soon as possible" in getting 3/4 of the states to ratify that is pretty much never.

It would be like getting a group of 50, that included 25 wolves, and 25 sheep, to come up with 38 votes to make it legal for wolves to kill sheep (or for sheep to kill wolves).

[moonscape]

13. Great analogy! n/t

[jorgevlorgan]

16. Lets just kinda keep it in the back of our minds for when the gop no longer

Has much influence. I imagine this can get through once that small window opens up -whenever it does. Because if it does, it will not take long before it closes.

[Captain Stern]

19. It doesn't matter whether the gop is in power, or whether we are.

There's just no sensible reason for a small state, regardless of whether they are a conservative one like Wyoming, or a liberal one like Hawaii, to vote to give more votes larger states.

The folks in those states would essentially have to vote to agree, that their votes won't matter as much.

That's just silly.

[jorgevlorgan]

20. I disagree. A lot of these states are becoming more urban centered.

I think that is changing a lot of minds. Also if we make more territories states, that will bring in more urban centered states that would benefit from a popular vote. Also, look at the states that are joining the electoral college compact. We are quite close to 270, which is due to the participation of a ton of small states like rhode island, vermont, etc.

[Bettie]

14. Work toward that and, in the meantime

increase the size of the House. That would increase the number of electors available and make it more representative of where people actually live.

Yeah, it would dilute the individual power of each rep, but it would also make gerrymandering harder to accomplish on a state-wide basis.

[jorgevlorgan]

18. Yeah. Stack scotus, add states. Pass more democratic laws in general.

And we will get better.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. The Rs would never go along with that. Not as long as...

the current system gives them a structural advantage. No way will they give that up.

[jorgevlorgan]

17. After this year, I'm not entirely sure that will be a problem

[I_UndergroundPanther]

37. Than take it from them

Republicans are traitors

[Crunchy Frog]

38. That would be nice, but I don't see us having sufficient votes.

[Codeine]

23. You'd have to convince small states

to vote against their own self-interests. Not impossible, but there’s little in the way of logical reasons for them to make that decision. It’s not often people willingly relinquish their influence and power.

[jorgevlorgan]

25. Plenty of small states are already on board. (RI, NH, VT, ME, to name a few)

As more small states become more urbanized, this becomes more appealing to them.

[Codeine]

27. For some, sure.

And after a generational shift perhaps more, but certainly not in the short term.

[jorgevlorgan]

29. Agreed. Although we have seen a lot of movement by even republican small states in the Electoral

College Compact (only a few states away). If this becomes enacted, that will be the first indicator of really how much support from other states this will get.

[Codeine]

31. Long term I think it's inevitable

but I think some folks overestimate how rapidly a change of that magnitude can be achieved.

[Yeehah]

24. It will be a long campaign to make that happen

But the campaign should begin. The electoral college is undemocratic and it hurts our nation.

[former9thward]

34. I read the other day there have been over 900 Constitutional amendments introduced to

reform or eliminate the electoral college in the last 200 years. None have gotten anywhere. And none will.

[Silent3]

35. There are more perhaps doable amendments needed...

...that don’t require a bunch of small states to willingly give up power.

We desperately need to codify better oversight of, and limits on, the executive branch. Since Biden will likely be our next president, it will be much easier to convince Republicans to vote for such limitations.

It should be easy to get Democratic approval, because Democrats don’t have the same authoritarian impulses that they’d want to exercise anyway.

1) Give Congressional oversight more teeth, actual physical enforcement power for subpoenas of witnesses and documents, with strict, short time limits on appeals by the executive, so that presidents can't play the game of running out the clock.

2) Limited minority congressional subpoena power -- limited enough to prevent the minority from using subpoena power abusively, but not so limited that a majority of the same party as the president can't completely shield that president from oversight.

3) Constitutionally defined independence for the Justice Department and special prosecutors.

One thing we can do since it's practically impossible to get the Electoral College abolished, so at least even the playing field a bit: statehood for DC and Puerto Rico. All we need is for DC and PR to go along, and a simple majority in Congress to get that passed. We'd gain Senate seats, House seats, and electoral votes, all likely to be Democratic most of the time.

[In It to Win It]

39. Hypothetically, could this be forced through states' ballot initiative?