Impeachment Revisited

[EndlessWire]

I gather that Pelosi will, on Friday, take a look at legislation that would have something to do with looking at a President's condition to perform his duties. That's fine. Somebody is doing something.

I don't think we can remove Trump using the 25A. This would require Pence to agree that Trump is bat-shit crazy, along with 8 cabinet heads, all appointed by Trump. Not going to happen. It also requires that the process happen twice.

In the last two days, Trump has been pressuring Barr to indict several of his enemies, and those that were in his cabinet who failed to do his bidding, or just disappointed him.

Barr is the Attorney General of The United States. He has been threatened with some kind of vague consequences if he does not produce arrests and indictments. This is serious business.

It is so unbelievable that it is tempting to think, well, it's just because of the election--it's electioneering--or to dismiss it as the utterings of a diseased mind that we will soon vote out of office. The problem is that he will be in charge until January 20th of next year.

Trump has almost unfettered--no, it's probably unfettered--access to nukes. He can literally start a war in our name, if he just wants to do it. He has plenty of time to completely and utterly destroy our country.

Seriously, we need to impeach him again, immediately. If we can't negotiate a 25A with Pence, then we need to draft a second impeachment effort. We need to do it NOW. The fact that Trump has pursued this theme two days in a row, and is pressuring the AG to do it, is alarming. We really can't wait until we see the Obamas, Clintons, and many Repub pollies that are on the shit list, rounded up and put in jail, to satisfy Trump's bizarre sense of justice. We need to take his Presidential powers away from him. NOW.

It may look bad, this close to the election, and probably won't conclude until after the election, but history will record the odd behavior, raging, and illness of this pRes. We owe it to our country to at least try again to remove this guy from office. Barr is not exactly your Law and Order guy, just a stoolie for Trump, and he might very well decide to do it, even though it would be an illegal order.

Trump's people think that they are immune to retribution, but if such stuff happens, they will be buying themselves a ticket to prison for their lives.

It seems like Nancy is moving in the right direction, and I trust her, but will she move fast enough? It looks to me like she is codifying the exact symptoms and observed behaviors that will lead to some kind of removal of this pRes.

If Pence agreed, and 8 cabinet heads also agreed, then Trump could be removed immediately. All it would take would be letters presented to Nancy and Grassly. Then, Pence would not be President, just acting President, for the election. They would have to do again, but that probably wouldn't be a problem.

Why did Pence turn around? The plot thickens...

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

1. pelosi's ace in the hole?

hey mikey- 25a or we impeach again?
every body on du saying- what's she doing? she doesnt have the power. we all know she doesnt play.
so, is this the closing argument?
could be.

[EndlessWire]

2. Yeah, maybe...

The fact that he is urging Barr to arrest people might also be a factor that has enough urgency to relieve Trump of his power.

Pence seems to me to be a kind of "glued on Trump's backside" kind of guy, in which case he will laugh in Nancy's face. But, Nancy's tough, and she might be able to convince Pence. Maybe she will throw in the airlines package as incentive. Pence would immediately become acting President upon presentation of the declarations.

I don't know, but I think something will happen by next week. We'll know more by then. If they actually draft legislation to establish the criteria of disability, then that gives more teeth to the process, and we might have a chance.

[onenote]

4. That would be an idle threat against Trump since neither approach would be successful

Certainly not before the election and more likely than not even after (during a lame duck period). Getting the necessary votes from Republicans will never happen.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

5. even if they dont remove him, they tank the whole party.

impeachment hearings the whole month of oct?
that gets them off their asses.

[onenote]

11. the whole month of Oct is a third over. And Democratic members want to be home campaigning

or in DC working on Coronavirus relief not spending time on another round of impeachment hearings.

Pelosi isn't pursuing impeachment between now and election day. She isn't pursuing the application of the 25th amendment to Trump. She's making the smart political move of drawing attention to Trump's post-hospitalization condition by resurrecting a three year old piece of legislation that would create a "commission" of medical experts to evaluate the condition of a president (not this particular president. She knows it won't go anywhere (not clear it will even get a vote in the House and will definitely go nowhere in the Senate).

[EndlessWire]

7. Things are not the same.

The polls are not the same. Trump is now suffering from Covid and is acting irrationally. We need to try again.

[patricia92243]

3. Impeach is not removal - same as last time.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

6. except the people are voting.

hearings all oct? moscow mitch doesnt want that.

[EndlessWire]

9. Good point.

Mitch is afraid to set foot in the WH because of Covid. That would be interesting.

[onenote]

12. Actually, Mitch would love for Democrats to be in DC rather than out campaigning

and he'd love to have an argument to try to rally Repubs to support vulnerable GOP candidates.

[EndlessWire]

16. He doesn't seem to be doing squat.

We probably are better off, but I think you presume too much.

[EndlessWire]

8. Maybe

but we need to try. He was crazy last time. He's crazier now. And, he has put Repubs on his jail list--perhaps some Repubs will object to that.

If Trump gets reelected, he will become a fully functional dictator. Surely that is foreseeable by the Senate.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

10. i think it pushes the turtle to to push mother's boy to pull the trigger.

[EndlessWire]

13. Yeah

He may be waiting on action from Nancy. Maybe we'll get lucky.

[tblue37]

22. You forget that Trump almost certainly has Kompromat on most GOP leaders and foot soldiers.

[EndlessWire]

24. Let the rain fall

They will experience the complete destruction of the GOP. Works for me.

[brooklynite]

14. No, No, No.

We will not Impeach him.
We will not remove him through 25th Amendment.
We will defeat him at the polls. Anything else is a distraction.

[EndlessWire]

17. Distraction?

I have more faith in the people. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Never let your enemy rest.

[Blue_true]

21. I honestly don't understand the almost complete lack of political savvy involved

with the desire to impeach Trump a little more than 3 weeks to the election. An impeachment attempt is EXACTLY what Trump wants House Democrats to do, I seriously doubt the Speaker Pelosi will fall for that trap.

[EndlessWire]

23. I don't understand you, either.

That's putting it politely. There are reasons that Pelosi is doing what she is doing. She certainly has a little political savvy, certainly more than the speculation that you and I have. At least I didn't insult you for yours.

Tell me how you will feel if Trump has the Obamas handcuffed and perp walked to jail? I would think that if Trump, in his demented thinking, orders Barr to arrest them, which he has done already, and Barr does so, that the uproar and rioting that would ensue would be the true goal for Trump. No matter what it looks like, Trump doesn't do things just to do them. He has some twisted goal in mind.

We have already seen the unrest that Trump enjoys. Trump enjoys hurting people and causing trouble. If he arrested Obama, it might escalate to martial law, which he would benefit from.

It is not unreasonable for me to search for a way to avoid the destruction that Trump can cause, in numerous ways, during the rest of his tenure. We have very little chance of stopping him, even when we vote him out of office. The only cure all we have is if the bastard dies of Covid. I do not allow myself to wish for that, only that he disappears.

You would develop far quicker if you stopped thinking in 2D and adopted out of the box thinking, rather than questioning someone else's attempt to thread the needle, when you can't see something. All of what you have experienced is like the plot of a novel, pretty unbelievable for real life. Most people who have lived a while will tell you that they never imagined this happening.

To be clear, we are not in the same spot that we were during Impeachment 1. Even then, there were Repubs that just followed the party line, probably because they were afraid of Trump. He is vindictive and mean. And, some of them are now on a list of enemies he has.

So, things are decidedly different now. Why would we try a 25A, or an impeachment now, before the election? Because we might be able to eliminate his presidential powers before January. We would all be safer with Pence as acting pres.

[Blue_true]

29. I prefer to deal with events that may happen instead of ones that are a stretch.

Trump is nuts, but he is not a monarch that can’t be resisted.

[onenote]

15. By the way, even if the cabinet and VP invoked the 25th amendment it might be temporary

Here's the process:

The 25th is invoked by a message from the VP and cabinet to Congress. An hour later (if not sooner), Trump sends a message to Congress that he is not incapable of carrying out the duties of the Presidency, at which point he resumes those duties. Thereafter, the VP and a majority of cabinet have four days to tell Congress again that the president is unable to carry out his duties which would result in the VP again becoming "acting" president. Congress then has 48 hours to gather to consider whether the president is fit to carry out the duties of the office and 21 days to decide the issue. It would take a 2/3 vote of both the House and Senate to uphold the action of the VP and cabinet. If Congress doesn't act or doesn't get the required votes, the president resumes the powers and duties of the presidency.

Of course this is all rather theoretical since Pence will never support the 25th amendment being invoked against Trump's will.

[EndlessWire]

18. I know the process.

Yeah, let's just sit here and let him run amok. HE'S CRAZY. He has the nuclear codes. People do what he says without objection.

He sat at dinner with Xi while bombing an airfield. And, he told about it in an unclassified location. G-d knows what he will do if he survives Covid and gets reelected.

But, that's okay, people don't want to bother. We are living in an alternate universe, anyway. But, when he pulls troops from one spot to support Russia in it's interference in the Balkans, or wherever, don't complain when he sends YOUR kid, or your friend's kid to a war that he PERSONALLY supports. Because, you know, he admires Putin and wants to impress him.

I believe that We the People are capable of doing many things at once, including 25A, impeachment, and Plan A: Voting them all out of office. But, if not, we better learn. Because, our world, and our country, and our way of life will be over!

What is your plan for the post election period where he is still in charge? Go to sleep and hope you wake up?

[onenote]

19. tell me what your plan is. you seem to think you've got one, so convince me how it will work

[EndlessWire]

25. You're not listening. n/t

[onenote]

27. Not the best deflection I've seen

Last edited Sat Oct 10, 2020, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

[Blue_true]

30. I don't think there is a plan.

My plan is to help vote that orange asshole out of office, then let federal prosecutors and New York State prosecutors go after him.

[onenote]

31. I'm on board with that plan.

[Blue_true]

20. The ideal of an impeachment effort at this point is just what Trump wants democrats

to do.

He is LOSING and most likely WILL LOSE. Why should democrats do something that gives him political life?

[EndlessWire]

26. You don't know that.

You don't know either part of that.

[onenote]

28. It might not help him but it seemed to help Republicans senate

Candidates in 2018.