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Sun Oct 18, 2020, 12:49 PM

the hoarse whisperer nails it! (and kirstie alley is an idiot!)

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)




"A lot of people are going to hate this and immediately reject it but hear me out. The biggest mistake Democrats have made for years and years is being too nice. We have cared far too much about politeness and decorum. We have treated a bloodsport like it was a bridge game.

Since at least when Obama took office (but more like the past forty years), we on the left and our elected representatives have clung to a suicidal fiction that ‘going high’ would save us. Subconsciously, it is pleasing, at least partially, because it is self-inflating.

“We are better than that! We would never stoop to the lows of those people!” While the right endlessly works to personally destroy people on the left, we’ve clung to the mantra of “attacking ideas not people” as if it was a bible verse.

And that excessive politeness - or insufficient harshness - extends all the way down through how we treat minor figures aligned with the right. People on cable news panels. Minor celebrities. Talking heads. We bitch about what they say but do little to diminish them.

Let’s take Kirstie Alley as just one example of the moment... Here’s an Alley tweet from yesterday. [pic of alley's tweet]

A lot of people will fire back about *what she said*. Very few will fire back *about her*. The former feels more polite. The latter feels so very uncivilized. Here is the problem: when you engage with someone’s opinions, you elevate them to being worthy of consideration.

By refusing to go directly after that person’s standing and worthiness of being listened to, we don’t stay above someone going low. We give them a free lift up to our level. Engaging with terrible ideas puts terrible people at the table.

While a whole lot of people are going to hate this: If we are not aggressively working to diminish the people working against us, we are helping them. If we aren’t going after them and their reputations personally, we are helping them.

In response to Alley’s post, we’re all going to do what we’re programmed to do: comment on the comment. “You like him because he’s not a politician?! Do you like pilots who have never flown?!” It’s a layup. It’s practically reflex at this point.

All that does though is get Alley’s name to trend for a day and then leave her to come back a month from now with some new stupid or harmful thing.

Kirstie Alley has no political expertise. She has little education past high school - about as much as Melania. She is in two cults. MAGA and Scientology. She reportedly sold her $12 million L.A. mansion to move near Scientology’s Florida headquarters.

Kirstie Alley is an ignorant, rich, gullible white woman with no credentials that merit being listened to or respected. She endorses both a harmful, abusive cult in Scientology and a racist, abusive cult in MAGA.

Kirstie Alley is an idiot. An idiot okay with racism. She is a stupid person who has not endeavored to become any smarter. She is a the epitome of the privilege of both whiteness and wealth. The problem isn’t Kirstie Alley’s words. The problem is Kirstie Alley.

And some version of this is the case for every right wing asshat who poisons the discourse. And we should focus on that. The problem *is* the person not their latest words. “Criticize the ideas not the person” is like saying “Treat the symptoms not the cause.”

As much as people will hate this, we have allowed every manner of terrible person to get to the table with us by “criticizing ideas not people.” We need to stand up in the cocktail party, make the record scratch, and say “THAT PERSON IS AN ASSHOLE. GET THEM OUT OF HERE.”

I’m rambling and I need another coffee but I’ll leave with this: We need to aggressively diminish harmful people personally to reduce or take away their seat at the table. The right is terrified of ‘cancel culture’ because they’re worried we might have learned that... "

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Reply the hoarse whisperer nails it! (and kirstie alley is an idiot!) (Original post)
orleans Oct 18 OP
Baitball Blogger Oct 18 #1
FoxNewsSucks Oct 18 #11
Baitball Blogger Oct 18 #12
Catch2.2 Oct 18 #22
unblock Oct 18 #2
question everything Oct 18 #3
a kennedy Oct 18 #5
orleans Oct 18 #7
a kennedy Oct 18 #10
orleans Oct 18 #6
question everything Oct 18 #24
dalton99a Oct 18 #4
Under The Radar Oct 18 #8
zipplewrath Oct 18 #9
BamaRefugee Oct 18 #13
Pepsidog Oct 18 #14
BamaRefugee Oct 18 #16
judesedit Oct 18 #15
judesedit Oct 18 #18
judesedit Oct 18 #20
AZ8theist Oct 18 #17
live love laugh Oct 18 #19
Catch2.2 Oct 18 #21
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 18 #23
mopinko Monday #25

Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:08 PM

1. No argument here.

I belonged to the group that ran around with her hair on fire trying to get Democrats to take the gloves off and fight back, instead of being the willing crash dummy in national politics.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:50 PM

11. Same here. I'm sick of it.

I don't know how much it will change. For example, DiFi sucking up to Leningrad Lindsey Graham. WTF!!!!! I hope it's wrong, but I heard on a podcast yesterday that DiFi has stated that if Democrats control the Senate, making her the Chair of Judiciary, she will resume honoring "blue slips".

Meaning republicons will resume blocking every judicial nomination Biden makes.

That's the kind of behavior that sickens me and pisses me off so much.

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Response to FoxNewsSucks (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:02 PM

12. Biden said he's the transition president.

Let's see if he understands what role he needs to play to make sure the younger generation has a Democratic party it can be proud of. The Supreme Court problem will be a defining moment.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:40 PM

22. This is the analogy I always use...

I learned in school that one of the first times guerrilla warfare was used was during the Revolutionary War. When it came time to battle, the British would line up in a field with their muskets. Instead of lining up across from the British, the Americans would position themselves behind trees, rocks, etc. The British complained how classless & barbaric the Americans were for not lining up in the field to fight.


.....the Democrats are the British.

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:20 PM

2. Clearly the hoarse whisperer has never played bridge lol

People had been killed playing that game!

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:25 PM

3. Wish you edited it and place extra space between paragraphs. Hard for me to read

But, I suppose, that's just me..

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Response to question everything (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:51 PM

5. Nope, very hard for me to read as well......

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:58 PM

7. sorry. i just fixed it. n/t

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Response to orleans (Reply #7)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:44 PM

10. Thank you.....

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Response to question everything (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:58 PM

6. sorry. i put the 16 tweets into their own paragraphs. hopefully this is better. n/t

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Response to orleans (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 05:25 PM

24. Thank you!

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 01:48 PM

4. Great post.

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:02 PM

8. Correct. Honesty, integrity, empathy and charity are weaknesses to Republicans..

.... where our conduct is predictable and it is easy to take advantage of us.
Conservatives ignore the rules and lie with such ease under oath when brought in front of justice.
That is what has been nice about having the Lincoln Project guys on our side, Democrats are just not good at confrontation, except for James Carville and Russ Fiengold

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 02:39 PM

9. This implies the democrats control the conversation

Especially in this day and age, democrats rarely control the conversation. It is hard to trivialize or sideline a speaker when you are both guests in the conversation. And when you try, you are as likely come off as some sort of condescending elitist. One can try to avoid much of this by avoiding participation in events that will include unqualified participants. But often in an interview or in participation in panels, the moderator will bring in statements from outside. The best I can think of for that is something to the effect of, "well people with expertise on the subject would know what's wrong with that statement, but this format doesn't really allow for me to teach a short course on the subject".

I worked in a technical field. We'd have staff meetings where technical issues were discussed along side with business issues. So there were nontechnical people in the room. In an effort to be helpful, the nontechnical people would make suggestions or asked questions that were so wrong, often the technical people would chuckle. I took to just saying something to the effect that I'd explain it to them later.

But in a political setting, I'm not sure how one can do a whole lot about it. I do wish the media would be more circumspect about inviting unqualified speakers into discussions.

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:06 PM

13. YES! We need a SHOCK AND AWE, SCORCHED EARTH policy of BENEVOLENCE. First up being IRON CLAD laws

that PUT PEOPLE IN PRISON who interfere with ANY qualified American's right to vote!
It all starts there. If all of us can vote, we will NEVER lose again.

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:11 PM

14. A reckoning is coming and desperately needed. No more we go high shit. And take the assault rifles

from the nuts. Stomp them to the ground.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:16 PM

16. "We go high" was a nice aphorism but against Republicans, it's like bringing a feather duster to a

knife fight.
Seriously, the previous Presidential candidate should have just gone for the jugular day after day after day!

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:12 PM

15. I do happen to agree with you

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Response to judesedit (Reply #15)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:23 PM

18. But I also think it depends on the person. It is perplexing and very hard to

understand how and why a person who does things for others every day supports that imposter. I'd think that anyone who cares about any living thing, to include this planet, would not/could not vote for that thing squatting in the WH, but you still have to give credit to that person for the good they do, don't you?

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Response to judesedit (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:24 PM

20. And I'm not talking about Kirstie. I was never a fan.

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:19 PM

17. Kristie who??

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:23 PM

19. "too nice" ... YES!! Absofuckinglutely right. ❣️❣️❣️

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:39 PM

21. This is the analogy I always use....

I learned in school that one of the first times guerrilla warfare was used was during the Revolutionary War. When it came time to battle, the British would line up in a field with their muskets. Instead of lining up across from the British, the Americans would position themselves behind trees, rocks, etc. The British complained how classless & barbaric the Americans were for not lining up in the field to fight.


.....the Democrats are the British.


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Response to orleans (Original post)

Sun Oct 18, 2020, 03:42 PM

23. Social media has given every asshole on the planet a seat at the table.

How do you moderate that?

This is exactly what fascists and the ultra-wealthy want for the general population. That is, to keep our head in a constant spin with conspiracies around every corner and to keep us in confusion and fear.

That state of being makes us very easy to control and to manipulate us into doing their will.

That's why I'm not on social media.......

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Response to orleans (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:32 AM

25. every loud mouth on a soap box does not deserve a platform.

some should have the box kicked out from under them.
and some deserved to be laughed at as they lie on the ground.

and some need to be pissed on before the fever spreads.

was just talking to an old friend in ny last night. he was dems, ugh. me- wut??? him- they need to put up a fight.

then i remembered where he lived. and i said, yeah. you got schumer, i got durbin.
as decent a pair of men as ever lived.
and just not fit for the times.
it's time to nudge some of these ppl gently off the stage.

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