If I and my family were really dependent on a stimulus check I would be angry at both parties

[question everything]

I would think that both are playing games for the elections. I would want them to compromise. Instead of $600 a week get me $400 but get me something. We don't have enough to eat, we may be evicted or, the other side, if I am a landlord I will be worry about my income.

[we can do it]

1. Would you read and think less if you were dependent on stimulus?

[question everything]

3. I don't need money to read and to think

though I think that hungry children do suffer cognitively.

[we can do it]

6. Exactly. So why would you blame democrats as well?

[brush]

24. The Dems in the House passed a comprehensive stimulus bill in May and it's sat on...

Moscow Mitch's desk since then so why blame Democrats? And the bill covers everything from the $600 additional unemployment, the $1200 individual checks, money for states, money for airlines/hospitality industry, money to cover payrolls for small business...everything, the works.

The repugs and Moscow Mitch sat on it for months now at the last minute Moscow Mitch rejects even trump's proposal (he's suddenly interested again afte saying it was dead last week) of 1.8 trillion and the Dems compromise bill of 2.1 trillion for a stingy bill of $500 billion that barely covers anything so, again, why are you blaming Democrats?

Did you not know all this?

[we can do it]

45. Thank you. Enough both-siderism FFS.

[brush]

47. You do realize you're doing the both-siderism in blaming the Dems as well when...I

clearly the repugs fault.

Unreal how some don't see themselves for who they are.

[we can do it]

48. Its not me it's the person I replied to.

[brush]

52. Yeah, sure. I didn't blame on both sides. You did. That's the definition of both-siderism.

[we can do it]

59. How about a little reading for comprehension.

These are my responses. None of them blame Dems.

1. Would you read and think less if you were dependent on stimulus?

6. Exactly. So why would you blame democrats as well?

48. Its not me it's the person I replied to.

46. The house has passed hundreds of bills that Mcturtle sits on.
What exactly do you purpose they do?

[brush]

66. Are you dense? You wrote: "I would think that both are playing games..."

Because you left out the word "sides" after the word "both" in the above quote you think that exonerates you from blaming both sides in your OP headline?

No, it doesn't. And try reading the other posts in this thread. Maybe you'll get it then that others see your both-siderism just like I do. We also see you now trying to back away from it.

[we can do it]

67. I'm not the dense one. Try looking at who you're ranting at.

“question everything” wrote the OP
If I and my family were really dependent on a stimulus check I would be angry at both parties

I would think that both are playing games ....

FFS read

[brush]

68. You can't deny what you wrote. Now I'm done with your silliness.

[we can do it]

69. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😴😂😴

Are you drunk?

[Demsrule86]

23. I am unemployed and unhappy with both sides. Although I fault the GOP more. Get something

done as people are hurting...many are going hungry and about to be evicted or face foreclosure. We won't survive until February most likely. Hubs has job interviews this week but there are multiple applications for each job.

if something isn't done before the election. there is no reason to believe anything will happen until after Biden is inaugurated in late January 2021. Of course, I voted a straight Democratic ticket as I always do, but I am very unhappy with this situation.

[we can do it]

46. The house has passed hundreds of bills that Mcturtle sits on.

What exactly do you purpose they do?

[Demsrule86]

72. You negotiate smaller bills and see what is possible. We really need to try.

Even if McConnell doesn't do shit. WE need to show we have done all we can...and talking about a child tax credits and such won't do it. Some of what we want will have to wait until January. But right now people are getting tossed out of their houses and are going hungry. It is a desperate situation.

[Bettie]

81. Every time they offer a smaller bill

Moscow Mitch says, "Nope, make it smaller". They could be down to five bucks to unemployed people weekly and he'd say "Nope, make it smaller!".

It isn't Democrats, it is Moscow Mitch who thinks he is more powerful than anyone else.

Well, at this point, it seems he is. Nothing moves legislatively without his say-so.

[durablend]

62. McConnell couldn't care less if you fuck off and die

Is this not clear?

[Demsrule86]

71. I don't appreciate your tone. I know McConnell doesn't care if I die or fuck off or what have

you. But our side has to care and try in good faith to help people. No matter what McConnell does. And my best guess is if Mnuchin and Nancy agree to something Trump might force McConnell to put it on the floor or not. In which case he and the Senate will be blamed not us.

People will die. Winter is coming on and there are few shelters open due to Covid...and if you are homeless you have more of a chance of catching Covid too...and people are already hungry...we should put out a bare bones bill that sends help to those who are unemployed and expand the numbers of those who receive unemployment. Also, send out a stimulus check. The economy will be over cliff it this waits until January.

[TheBlackAdder]

65. McConnell is hoping to disuade people from voting, especially those hurting.

.

They want people to disengage and buy into the both-siderisms that the RW media is pushing.

The Republicans don't give a fuck, and I see that they will play SCORCHED EARTH and burn and pilfer as much as possible. I know Trump will try to destroy as much as he can, and they want to give the Democrats the most fucked up country they can.

.

[Demsrule86]

70. I don't doubt it...but we should make sure that we come up with a plan that does nothing but

unemployment and stimulus...make McConnell pay. We will get blamed otherwise and I fear it could affect the house...although Trump is such a fucking idiot maybe it won't

[Historic NY]

2. Two votes by congress passed and went to the Senate and stopped...

more negotiations, Trump called it off, more negotiations Mitch put the Senate on vacation. Then there was Trump place to make the states pay....and he give them $200. If your going to place blame get the fact on the shell game the Republicans been playing .

[question everything]

12. From our own LBN

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced on Saturday there would be votes on stimulus measures, including a stand-alone Paycheck Protection Program bill to help small businesses, on Tuesday and Wednesday. But Democrats, who are expected to block McConnell's effort, have been pushing for a larger deal, banking on on-again, off-again talks that Pelosi has had with Mnuchin for months.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142607476

[Historic NY]

25. Its the first movement the turtle is making....

because he is getting his ass kicked. Remember the PPP programs it was a multi-billion dollar give a way that ended up with millions to millionaires and very little to small business. Nothing Mitch does is w/o a consequence. The idea is to make the Republican Senators vote on a plan that does something....not table scraps.

[dawg]

33. Get back to us whenever the Senate acutally passes something.

They are more than willing to pass liability protections and additional PPP loans for businesses, but more stimulus for workers and taxpayers, not so much.

[kcr]

73. No one's buying it

Guess DUers with low income aren't as stupid as you thought.

[lame54]

4. You'd be what Mitch McConnell calls...

Leverage

[BannonsLiver]

9. Or a sucker

Depending on which way said person voted in the end.

[Lucinda]

10. +1

[Javaman]

5. It can't be approved with the repuke senate

The dems have tried compromising but turleman pissed on it

So please stop with the both sides bullshit, it helps no one especially the people that need it; which I might are family members of mine.

[we can do it]

7. Thank you.

[question everything]

13. Read my response, 12, above

[Caliman73]

34. And you believe that McConnell is acting in good faith? Based on what?

McConnell does not give a shit about what is happening to people. He is playing a completely political game. The Bill he is proposing is a pittance and likely includes the poison pill of immunity for employers so that they can force employees back to work in unsafe conditions with no liability for their illness or death.

Things are very difficult for a lot of people. Republicans have the Executive Branch, The Supreme Court, and the Senate, but you are saying BOTH sides are responsible and are upset that the Democrats, who control the House and have passed hundreds of bills to try to help the American people, are not accepting McConnell's bullshit bill?

[question everything]

55. No I don't. But the good old saying about a gift and a horse

If they finally realize the price that they will pay - listen to Cruz and Sasse - and are willing to sign something, we should take it.

We, Democrats, always are so rationale while the Republicans always shoot first and ask later. Even the abortion term "pro life" - very emotional against "pro choice" almost a marketing term.

[Caliman73]

64. You think this is a "gift horse"?

It is more like the blankets the US Army "gifted" Native Americans or the Wooden Horse that the Greeks gifted the Trojans.

If they realized the price they would pay, they would meet the Democrats at the mid point between what the House offered and Minuchin's counter. Trump even wants a bigger stimulus because he sees the writing on the wall.

What you have from McConnell is a ploy to try to blame the situation on the Democrats. When we refuse the stinking pile of shit that is his offer, he will run crying to the media to say how horrible we are. He is offering less than 25% of what the Democrats are asking and what the Democrats are asking is less than the 3 to 4 Trillion that economists say we need to keep the country from sinking.

I get the urgency and desperation of people who are running out of funds. McConnell does too. However, he is counting on the desperation of people being the leverage that pushes Democrats to accept a shitty deal, and pressure from people to force the Democrats to "act responsibly.

That is why Pelosi went after Blitzer last week. The media presents it as Democrats not being willing to work with Republicans rather than the reality that Republicans are proposing garbage.

[Javaman]

74. haven't you learned anything by now about the rebukes...

they devil is always in the details.

they tried to be oh so smart, but it completely backfired on them.

they kept dropping one bullshit thing into these bills after another and Nancy wan't having it. the game is over. time to help the people

and if you think that we should just take anything, I'm glad Nancy is in charge and not you.

we are playing fucking hardball now, the time to "take anything" has long since past. the rebukes had their chance and it was them and only them who have fucked us.

now please stop, just stop, with the both sides bullshit, it's really unattractive, borish and down right ridiculous.

[question everything]

75. I do not say both sides. If I were desperate and poor I might have. It is too bad that so many

here have no empathy to the really poor.

I suppose there is no room in DU for the really poor and desperate.

[Javaman]

79. wow, just wow...

1) you have zero concept of me and how I was homeless and know full well what its like not to get a meal days on end.

2) you have no concept of what both sides actually means.

I am done with you. you hare insulting and very poorly informed.

try walking the walk sometime and stop spouting populous right wing propaganda.

[Under The Radar]

8. Life was like that before Covid and not something a Democrat

...royal flush can fix in 4 years.
We need 60 seats in the senate and to flip more state houses.

[CrispyQ]

11. I would be angry at senate republicans, who back on 2/5, could have rid us of the orange menace.

Pence, I believe, would have at least deferred to the experts.

If people don't sharpen up & see that there's a big difference between the two parties then we are just going to cycle through this shit again and again, like we've been doing since Nixon.

[Demsrule86]

40. You are a Democrat...me too. In 18, we took seats in Republican areas and I don't think they may be

as understanding. We need to make sure we do not get blamed...and I think we are not doing that. Sure Mitch could say no...probably will but put out an unemployment, stimulus bill and make him say no.

[pepperbear]

14. If the headlines kept on reading "Dems/GOP spar over relief bill" rather

than telling the truth, that the blame lies mostly with the GOP, I would be too.

In fact, that is what they say. They feel the need to remain "impartial."

[question everything]

17. Read my response, 12, above

[PTWB]

15. Unfortunately many folks believe that "both sides" nonsense.

Anyone with the capacity to inform themselves knows that only Republicans are to blame for this crisis.

[Demsrule86]

28. I don't believe that but I think unemployment issues could have been separated. I heard

Nancy whom I admire say that the child credit and some other tax issue was a sticking point...tax issues could wait until after the election...unemployment not so much. It could be that no matter what Mitch will say no...I still think Trump can force him if he chooses but who knows? But we should do everything we can to send what help we can to hurting Americans because it is the right thing to do and also so we are not blamed. I would hate to lose house seats.

[karynnj]

16. I doubt the differences are as simple as the amount

I do agree that people who need help will be angry with both .. and I wonder if a bill passed in the Senate will then go to a conference committee to be made more like the House passed bill.

[onecaliberal]

22. Passing a bill with money for states and schools and actual small business

AND the unemployed is a must. Republicans either want to raid the treasury for their rich friends or skip helping all together.

[Caliman73]

36. If a bill is altered in one chamber, it has to go back to the original chamber for approval.

If the Senate passes a bill and the House amends it in committee, it has to go back to the Senate for approval. McConnell would then kill the bill saying that the Democrats changed it too much.

[karynnj]

49. True, but the alternative is to take the Senate passed bill and pass it in the House

(This is actually what happened with ACA after Scott Brown was elected, so any conference bill would not have 60 votes. ) The norm is that the Senate and the House have a conference committee and then BOTH houses pass the consensus bill. However, norms of even a decade ago are no longer done.

They need ONE bill that can pass the House, Senate and be signed by the President. It is distinctly odd that McConnell is not involved with the Pelosi/Mnuchin negotiation.

[onecaliberal]

18. Democrats passed a great bill in May, so no.

[question everything]

76. So that's it? We've done our deed and now we don't give a damn?

And if this was not enough, and you are poor and miserable and you don't see any way to support your self and your family, tough. We did in May.

The more I read posts here the more I wonder about whether there is any empathy to the poor and the desperate. And we are supposed to be the ones who care about them. Only when we earn political points?

[LizBeth]

19. And extend UI. It ends Dec 26 then anyone starting in March is off the roll as winter hits, covid

spike high and unemployment high.

[Demsrule86]

29. That would be us...we will starve. Unemployment is only enough to just make it so we have

been using savings too...but we lost quite a bit during 08 so while we built up savings these last ten years, they won't last that much longer.

[Hoyt]

20. Basically agree. At least for those unemployed, with no enhance benefits since July 31, bet they'd

take the $400/week in a second.

I think we should have separated unemployment and other issues. I get using leverage, but not when millions of unemployed people are really hurting.

Honestly, GOPers started with $1 T while Democrats were asking for $2.2 T. Now GOPers have supposedly offered $1.8 T last week as a compromise. I'd seriously consider accepting and force trump and other GOPers to force McConnell's hand. McConnell is a hitch in this, but trump's Admin and a few GOPers can like convince him.

It's not like more can't be added later.

[Demsrule86]

30. I would take it and get down on my knees and thank God.

[Hoyt]

32. Exactly. Me too.

[Demsrule86]

38. Man it is rough out there...and honestly I know states need money, and there are tax

stuff..but that can be done after Joe gets in.

[stopbush]

31. Nope. I've been on unemployment since March, and am still on unemployment.

I am 100% behind Pelosi not caving in to R “too little too late” COVID relief “proposals,” proposals that will never pass the Senate,

The only option is to get 4-5 Senate Rs to back the House version. You will never get enough Rs in the Senate to pass anything. The deal lies with the Ds. Pelosi knows this, ergo her insistence on not making a crappy piecemeal deal.

And, no: I would not rather get $400 a week instead of nothing right now, because to do so is to gut the D Heroes Act.

As far as enhanced benefits, here in CA we got 6 weeks worth of tRump’s $300-a-week enhanced benefits. Neither Pelosi or Yertle had anything to do with that. If anything, tRump’s action delayed getting a deal thru Congress. At the end of the day, the $300 did more harm than good.

[NHDEMFORLIFE]

37. Laid off in June

62 years old, 36 years at the same company, zero severance. Been dipping into my retirement savings to get by.
I completely agree.

[question everything]

57. And how many have the ability to dip into retirement savings?

Can people here, on DU stop for a minute and think of all the ones with no savings? Who were on low wage to begin with? Who have no idea how to pay for food and for utilities? Rent?

We, Democrats, are supposed to be empathetic, to feel how others do but I don't think I find a lot of empathy here on DU. It is my way or the highway. So what if the turtle will get points for signing an agreement? This is the problem that I stated in my OP - standing on principles is more important that caring for the poorest among us.

[Demsrule86]

39. Really, well I can't make it until January and California has very generous unemployment.

Ohio does not. And on December 26th unemployment ends...so I disagree with you. Whatever we don't get in a bill now could be fixed in late January when Biden gets in...but nothing is still nothing in terms of unemployment.

[stopbush]

43. Er, the top weekly UI benefit rate in CA is $450, with no added $ for dependents.

The top weekly rate in OH is $480, with up to $667 a week if you have dependents.

When it comes to cost of living index, OH comes in with the 15th LOWEST CoL, while CA has the SECOND HIGHEST CoL. Set against the national average, the CoL in OH is 10% LOWER, while the CoL in CA is 52% HIGHER.

Which means the UI dollars you receive in OH are both higher than and go farther - about 60% farther - than they do in CA.

[question everything]

56. Many no longer get unemployment benefits

Is this enough? To pay for groceries, rent/mortgage? utilities?

Do you have savings and retirements into which you can dip?

I honestly doubt that there are on DU people who are really really poor. Who worked at McDonald at minimum wage and have not since March.

For people like that $200 will be god send.

[uponit7771]

53. 1. The kGOP doesn't have votes in the senate no matter ***WHAT*** we do, 2. "later" depends on if we

... win, that's not guaranteed 3. Look at number one

[Vivienne235729]

21. I get tired of clumping democrats in with everything the Republicans do.

If every Democrat voted for a stimulus tomorrow, you're saying it would pass the senate?

[question everything]

77. Oh, come on. The speaker has to come with a plan that she knows can pass the senate

or at least can be a starting point for negotiating. This is how we pass plans, don't we?

[Vivienne235729]

78. It doesn't matter in the age of tribalism. They're going to do what they want to do.

This is not politics as usual. It hasn't been for atleast 8 years. So don't blame ANY Democrat for any of McConnell 's doings. This GOP needs to be flushed out and fumigated.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. You need to be crystal clear about which party has blocked further stimulus checks.

And it's not the Democrats. And not the Libertarian or Green party either.

Care to venture a guess?

[JCMach1]

27. I am in this situation and I know exactly who to blame

And the ugly POS looks like a 🐢

Don't underestimate people's intelligence based on SES.

[bluestarone]

35. Well i believe you are falling into

McTURTLES trap! THIS is exactly what Moscow Mitch is counting on!

[beachbumbob]

41. McConnel wantsto give YOU zero a week

[stillcool]

42. that's what the Republicans are hoping...

they'll pass something that gives some nickels and dimes to the little people that qualify, but make sure they and theirs get a hefty cut. Everyone's happy! It would be nice to help more, but that's the way it goes.

[MoonlitKnight]

44. McConnell wants you to die

He is holding out for zero liability for businesses.

What this means is you don’t get unemployment because businesses can reopen fully with zero reason to take precautions. And that means you don’t get unemployment because you will have to turn down jobs that will kill you or others in your family and community.

[Boogiemack]

50. Since we are going into massive debt it should be worthwhile. I'm with Nancy on this.

You can't pay your bills without making enough revenue to cover it in the future. We simply cannot keep piling on debt just to give people barely enough to survive. We have to give them enough to live on not just for today but for days ahead. People need some disposable income or our economy will never get back to sound. Small businesses will be no more if their customers cannot afford to spend in their places of business.

[ooky]

51. I'm sure there are many people thinking that right now. nt

[mvd]

54. I am in that situation and I blame the Repukes

The Democrats have had a plan for months. The Repukes stalled and then didn’t come up with anything close to adequate. I hope so much that they come to a deal, but who knows what poison pills the Repukes are putting in. It is just hard to tell Pelosi to accept without knowing what the Repukes still want.

[question everything]

58. May I ask how you manage, so far?

How do you pay for your groceries? utilities? rent/mortgage? Or, like others, do you have savings into which you can dip?

I am having hard time understanding why so many here have no empathy to the really poor. The ones who have been on minimum wages, with no savings. What are they supposed to do?

[mvd]

60. Often I don't

I have to borrow money from friends (unbelievably one is a Trumpie! - we argued the other day and can’t talk politics) and sometimes family. I do get food assistance. My mom and I are both in the same situation. We both stock up on things but still run out of money. We could really use the stimulus badly but don’t want something bad in the deal. I can manage until Biden.

I think DU has a good deal of higher income Dems (they should still care), but I am sure there are many like us.

[Happy Hoosier]

61. bOtH sIDeS

[Autumn]

63. One of the over 257 bills the Dems have passed in the house was a big stimulus package in May,

one among others, that benefits and helps the American people who at this time need help desperately are sitting on Mitch's desk being ignored. Now you fucking tell me why the fuck anyone should be mad at the Democrats. Fuck that noise.

[pwb]

80. We want less of the package to go to The 1%

Pukes want most of it to go up again we want more for the masses. So I don't see the both sides argument here? Airlines and cruise ships can suffer just like the rest of us are. The Paycheck protection program is for the high paying jobs, we just get unemployment and that is how it all stalls. If Corporations are people then they should get no more than you.

[lagomorph777]

82. Then you aren't paying attention.

Dems have been trying every which way to get Massacre Mitch to budge. They have been putting forth hundreds of bills for relief and other desperately needed things. Mitch is dead set on killing as many Americans as possible, so he can pack the courts and cling to power.

[radius777]

83. Families need Trump and Mitch gone

and after that we can pass whatever we want.

Passing anything this close to the election, especially on the GOP's terms, could shift the race in their favor.

Dems passed the Heroes Act a long time ago but Mitch blocked it. Trump only cares about it now because he sees it as a last ditch attempt at winning reelection - as he intends to take full credit and when people get the money they will 'thank President Trump' and believe Pelosi/Dems had nothing to do with it. Especially swing voters who don't understand politics.