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Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:01 AM

I guess someone needs to say it: astrology is in the same category as alchemy, palm reading

and TV psychics, i.e., horseshit.

Traditional religion is criticized here, but we actually have posts predicting future events based on the position of the stars? I thought we were past "The Age Of Aquarius".

Yeah, I know---freedom of religion, freedom of speech----. Silliness is silliness no matter what you call it.

Go for it.


160 replies, 3130 views

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Reply I guess someone needs to say it: astrology is in the same category as alchemy, palm reading (Original post)
Atticus Oct 2020 OP
Deb Oct 2020 #1
Hugin Oct 2020 #14
KatyMan Oct 2020 #17
Towlie Oct 2020 #108
lagomorph777 Oct 2020 #20
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #103
Towlie Oct 2020 #107
zackymilly Oct 2020 #129
ret5hd Oct 2020 #2
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #3
Silent3 Oct 2020 #35
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #37
Silent3 Oct 2020 #39
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #40
Silent3 Oct 2020 #41
Atticus Oct 2020 #47
USALiberal Oct 2020 #67
PTWB Oct 2020 #60
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #71
PTWB Oct 2020 #76
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #77
PTWB Oct 2020 #79
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #83
PTWB Oct 2020 #85
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #86
PTWB Oct 2020 #87
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #88
PTWB Oct 2020 #91
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #92
PTWB Oct 2020 #98
snort Oct 2020 #111
PTWB Oct 2020 #118
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #104
PTWB Oct 2020 #106
flotsam Oct 2020 #114
cwydro Oct 2020 #116
PTWB Oct 2020 #119
cwydro Oct 2020 #135
PatSeg Oct 2020 #157
cwydro Oct 2020 #158
PatSeg Oct 2020 #160
MicaelS Oct 2020 #126
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #128
rusty fender Oct 2020 #51
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #101
Cha Oct 2020 #150
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2020 #4
DeminPennswoods Oct 2020 #5
PTWB Oct 2020 #64
Siwsan Oct 2020 #6
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #7
Kitchari Oct 2020 #19
Atticus Oct 2020 #24
Siwsan Oct 2020 #25
PatSeg Oct 2020 #34
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #73
PatSeg Oct 2020 #93
JonLP24 Oct 2020 #105
PatSeg Oct 2020 #113
JonLP24 Oct 2020 #117
PatSeg Oct 2020 #123
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #155
USALiberal Oct 2020 #56
Siwsan Oct 2020 #75
PTWB Oct 2020 #78
Siwsan Oct 2020 #82
USALiberal Oct 2020 #80
Atticus Oct 2020 #62
Siwsan Oct 2020 #68
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #72
Siwsan Oct 2020 #74
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #81
Siwsan Oct 2020 #84
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #156
Siwsan Oct 2020 #159
USALiberal Oct 2020 #55
cwydro Oct 2020 #69
EllieBC Oct 2020 #124
Siwsan Oct 2020 #125
Cha Oct 2020 #144
bobnicewander Oct 2020 #8
Cha Oct 2020 #145
sl8 Oct 2020 #9
Cirque du So-What Oct 2020 #10
Hugin Oct 2020 #18
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #11
chowder66 Oct 2020 #94
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #97
chowder66 Oct 2020 #99
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #100
chowder66 Oct 2020 #102
Duncan Grant Oct 2020 #132
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #133
BSdetect Oct 2020 #12
Hugin Oct 2020 #16
brooklynite Oct 2020 #13
Atticus Oct 2020 #43
Cha Oct 2020 #146
Atticus Oct 2020 #147
Cha Oct 2020 #149
Atticus Oct 2020 #152
Cha Oct 2020 #153
Atticus Oct 2020 #154
NRaleighLiberal Oct 2020 #15
panader0 Oct 2020 #21
ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #142
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #22
milestogo Oct 2020 #23
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #27
LuvNewcastle Oct 2020 #26
Klaralven Oct 2020 #28
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #29
dalton99a Oct 2020 #30
soothsayer Oct 2020 #48
Johnny2X2X Oct 2020 #31
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #32
Johnny2X2X Oct 2020 #36
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #38
Klaralven Oct 2020 #33
Silent3 Oct 2020 #53
Silent3 Oct 2020 #50
eShirl Oct 2020 #42
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #44
eShirl Oct 2020 #45
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #46
Beringia Oct 2020 #49
Silent3 Oct 2020 #52
USALiberal Oct 2020 #58
Codeine Oct 2020 #89
2naSalit Oct 2020 #54
Act_of_Reparation Oct 2020 #57
Casual User Oct 2020 #61
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #63
2naSalit Oct 2020 #65
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #127
USALiberal Oct 2020 #66
eShirl Oct 2020 #110
PTWB Oct 2020 #121
GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #130
LanternWaste Oct 2020 #136
PTWB Oct 2020 #138
Casual User Oct 2020 #59
jayfish Oct 2020 #70
malaise Oct 2020 #90
dalton99a Oct 2020 #112
malaise Oct 2020 #115
AnyFunctioningAdult Oct 2020 #95
Silent3 Oct 2020 #120
KatyMan Oct 2020 #96
ornotna Oct 2020 #109
PTWB Oct 2020 #122
cwydro Oct 2020 #140
lame54 Oct 2020 #131
hunter Oct 2020 #134
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #137
hunter Oct 2020 #139
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #141
hunter Oct 2020 #143
uriel1972 Oct 2020 #151
HipChick Oct 2020 #148

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:05 AM

1. So what's your sign?

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:18 AM

14. I'm thinking...

Virgo, Taurus, or Aries.

Maybe a Gemini.

What's your take?

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:23 AM

17. Fesces

😀
This is the DU member formerly known as KatyMan.

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:59 AM

108. I like that! Hopefully next month we'll be saying that Trump's astrological sign is Feces.

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:26 AM

20. Exit.

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:36 AM

103. I used to be a Virgo, until I got Pisces.

Now I'm just the man who carries the can.

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:57 AM

107. "So what's your sign?" (says sign) "That figures, (sign) people never believe in astrology."

Subtract the square of your sign from one and take the square root to determine your cosign.

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Response to Deb (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:04 PM

129. 'Slippery When Wet'

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:05 AM

2. I just cast some bones, and man oh man are you gonna get it now!

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:06 AM

3. I believe in tolerance on this because I've never heard astrology used to attack or otherwise harm

others-- something we really can't say about religion, I might add. As far as I'm concerned, differing beliefs that don't hurt anyone is not something this very science-based DUer is going to worry about.

I might add that I've been a long time student and fan of all things ancient Egypt--an Egyptophile, you could say. And along with their noted use of Astronomy and Geometry, they likewise were proponents of Astrology. I know some about the first, a great deal more about the second, and virtually nothing about Astrology, but that doesn't diminish my fascination and considerable respect for a people that accomplished much that we still have difficulties replicating.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:14 AM

35. An adult can believe in Santa Claus, and that's not going to harm anyone

But it still would seriously call into question their judgment and maybe even their sanity. I would rightly doubt their judgment on non-Santa Claus issues as well, which might well be important to the safety and well-being of others.

Is it "intolerant" to say that? Is it "intolerant" to even think that, even if you keep it quietly to yourself?

Pretty much the only difference between many religious/spiritual/mystical beliefs and Santa Claus is the amount of social support you can find from other people who share those beliefs, not the evidence or the quality of the reasoning supporting those beliefs.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:15 AM

37. Yes it is and extremely derisive. Shame on you

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #37)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:19 AM

39. What part of that exactly am I supposed to feel shame about?

And besides, that's what I "believe". Why is it OK for you to call my belief shameful?

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:20 AM

40. ..

calling DUers who believe other than you and I believe on this issue "insane?" You've got to be kidding me. SHAME ON YOU!! I'll take 100% more DUers who quietly discuss their views on Astrology or other issues that I don't share, but while respecting the views of others, over those who seek to deride, insult, and abuse those whose interests or beliefs do not reflect their own-- ANY day.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #40)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:25 AM

41. Where did I call all others insane?

The phrase "maybe even their sanity" doesn't say that.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #41)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:02 AM

47. Well, there ya go again--tryin' to muddy up the discussion with facts and relevance! ---sigh--- nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #40)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:23 AM

67. Feel the same about anti-vaxers? nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #37)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:11 AM

60. Poppycock!!

If someone told you that they sincerely believes the moon was made out of cheese, would you ignore that obviously alarming, incorrect and extremely illogical position or would you (rightly) allow it to color how you evaluate that personís views as a whole?


I think it is perfectly reasonable to disregard (or at a minimum be skeptical of) the less questionable views of people who also hold extremely questionable views.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #60)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:41 AM

71. My issue is with attacking other DUers for participating in a belief you (and I) do not share

while hurting no one. EarlG and Skinnner set up that group for them to do just that.

Shame on you as well.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #71)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:51 AM

76. You're mistaken.

Iím not advocating for belittling people who believe nonsense. Theyíre free to practice their beliefs to their heartís content.

My argument is that when youíre talking with someone who holds a view that is completely at odds with reality, it is perfectly reasonable to allow that irrational view to color how you evaluate anything else they say.

If someone tells you that the moon landing was fake, that the moon is made of cheese and that the earth is flat... do you ignore that when talking to them about other subjects?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #76)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:54 AM

77. Civil debate is not belittling nor calling those w beliefs/interests differing from yours "insane"

as the other poster earlier did.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #77)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:57 AM

79. He claims he did not.

Do you think someone who believes the moon is made from cheese is insane?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #79)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:59 AM

83. Insanity is based on a clinical definition, specific criteria & pattern of behavior--not a single

stupid statement. Or even a very ill-informed or ignorant one.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #83)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:02 AM

85. So you do not think that someone who holds such views is insane?

Would you consider that view to be foolish or irrational (the moon being made of cheese)?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #85)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:06 AM

86. I am a clinician. I already told you how an insanity diagnosis is made.

And no, it is not based on one seemingly stupid statement--fortunately for one hell of a lot of people who post on internet forums and websites.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #86)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:09 AM

87. I see this often.

Folks who work in your field hear a word being used and apply the criteria required for a clinical diagnosis to the application of that word. It is an understandable mistake to make.

I couldnít help but notice you didnít answer my question. Perhaps you missed it! Iíll just leave this here for you:

Would you consider that view to be foolish or irrational (the moon being made of cheese)?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #87)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:12 AM

88. Nor do they take patient's self-diagnoses--physical or mental-- as fact.

Something, I suspect you and many others may well be grateful for some time in the future.

But, no diagnosis is required to recognize derisiveness, intolerance, and divisiveness--which is apparent in this thread.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #88)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:15 AM

91. Who would take self-diagnosis as fact?

I couldnít help but notice you didnít answer my question (twice!). Perhaps you missed it. Iíll just leave this here for you:

Would you consider that view to be foolish or irrational (the moon being made of cheese)?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #91)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:16 AM

92. you, apparently.

Have a nice day. Go bother someone else with this nonsense.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #92)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:30 AM

98. Nope, not me. I value the opinions of experts.

Why am I not surprised you refused to answer that very simple question three consecutive times? The problem for you is that refusing to answer it is an answer.

For anyone still with us, he's unwilling to say whether he considers the belief that the moon is made of cheese to be foolish or irrational.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #98)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:16 PM

111. Okay, hang on, this is important:

What kind of cheese?

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Response to snort (Reply #111)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:52 PM

118. True believers know the moon is made of green cheese.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #76)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:39 AM

104. I'm a great believer at pointing and laughing at people who believe nonsense.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #104)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:42 AM

106. Can you believe it?

This 'doctor' refused to say whether it is foolish or irrational to believe the moon is made from cheese.




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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #71)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:46 PM

114. Flat Earthers are another "harmless" belief

But they are unquestionably nuts.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #71)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:51 PM

116. +1

I canít imagine why anyone would care so much about what others believe when it affects them not at all.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #116)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:53 PM

119. If someone tells you that they sincerely believe the earth is flat...

Would that not color how you view anything else they tell you?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #119)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 03:14 PM

135. I can honestly say that no one has never made such a statement to me.

What people opine about on websites really doesnít bother me.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #116)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:48 AM

157. It seems to give them the opportunity

to look down on other people. I've known religious people throughout my life and as long they don't try and force it on others, it is of no consequence to me. I can still enjoy and appreciate their company, while disagreeing with some of their spiritual beliefs.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #157)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:54 AM

158. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

People like to feel theyíre better than others.

Someone ought to collect all the lectures posted here lol.

Thereís quite a lengthy one about masturbation currently trending on the front page.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #158)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:39 AM

160. I encountered it here at DU

quite a few times and it is a real turnoff. Some people can be as dogmatic in their lack of belief as very devout religious people. For myself, I prefer being open minded and tolerant of other people's beliefs, as long as they don't infringe on mine. For many people, their spiritual beliefs have helped them get through some very difficult times and I'm not about to disparage them for it.

My beliefs over the years have gone through many changes and in my advanced years, I've come to the point where I realize there is far more that I don't know, than I could ever know in one lifetime. As such I tend to be humble when confronted with other people's beliefs. Did those beliefs help someone deal with a great loss, overcome an addiction, or cope with a serious illness? If so, it served more of a purpose than criticism and judgment.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #37)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:29 PM

126. Shame on YOU!

We claim we are the party of logic, rational thought and and science. Belief in Astrology is NONE of those. It is on par with kooky crap like QAnon. Do not expect me and others to gladly suffer the fools that believe in such things. No matter their political stance.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #126)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:01 PM

128. Tolerance of other's beliefs that do not harm others is a progessive value. I am a scientist, but I

can be tolerant of other's beliefs, so yes, if you can't, SHAME ON YOU!

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:16 AM

51. I agree with you

Donít let the shamers get you down. If you point out the hypocrisy of certain religion/cults on this board, youíll get attacked and your posts will get hidden
This is the DU member formerly known as rusty fender.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:35 AM

101. And scene. Well said.

I always wonder if reiki 'masters' just wave their hands at their light switches.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:15 PM

150. Mahalo, hlthe2b! It does seem a litte

weird to have an Attack on another Forum on DU in GD.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1220



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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:06 AM

4. Sorry to have to say it, but astrology is just as anti-science crap as tRump crap. . . . nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:06 AM

5. Still fun though

nt
This is the DU member formerly known as DeminPennswoods.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:14 AM

64. Fun for some, perhaps.

But prescribing meaning to astrology is no different than prescribing meaning to the fortune in the cookie that came with your General Tsoís.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:08 AM

6. Why not just put that forum on ignore?

Just seems like a more respectful method than trashing the beliefs held by others.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:13 AM

7. +1

One has to really go out of their way to even FIND the astrology group. So, this is really unseemly to be attacking a group (and DUers that frequent that group) that cause no problems for anyone.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:25 AM

19. Good answer

That would be my advice as well
This is the DU member formerly known as Kitchari.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:40 AM

24. Characterizing nonsense as "beliefs" does not elevate it to some sacred status. I criticize those

who "believe" Trump is "God's chosen one"; I criticize anyone who counsels others to "believe" that they are "God's messenger"; I criticize those who "believe" that their "beliefs" are equal to facts.

And, now, i criticize those who "believe" that our lives are impacted by what "house" the moon is in.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:49 AM

25. I just don't understand the need. Their beliefs aren't harmful. trump* cultist's are.

And just because you don't share those beliefs, doesn't mean they aren't valid to them.

To me, it just seems unnecessary to purposely insult people over what are really very benign beliefs. This just doesn't seem to be the time for offending people with whom you probably have much more in common, than not. Things are stressful enough, as it is. Why bring unnecessary hurt?

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:13 AM

34. I don't understand it either

There are plenty of harmful ideas and beliefs to attack or criticize, why bring up something as innocuous as astrology?

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:44 AM

73. There's nothing innocuous about charging real people real money to tell their futures.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #73)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:18 AM

93. Real people pay real money

for all kinds of things that could be considered meaningless crap and in many cases it could be considered even harmful. Alcohol, gambling, violent video games, junk food, tobacco, drugs, fad diets, plastic surgery, etc. It seems to me that astrology for some people is a harmless and relatively inexpensive form of entertainment.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #93)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:41 AM

105. Violent video games isn't much different than violent movies

Reality Bytes: Eight Myths About Video Games Debunked

Henry Jenkins
MIT Professor

https://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html

Video games aren't even on the same level of being harmful as tobacco, alcohol, or drugs.

I do blow too much money on video games but I blame the pandemic for that.
This is the DU member formerly known as JonLP24.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #105)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:41 PM

113. Oh, I'm not dissing video games in general

My son has played them for years and I can't say they've harmed him other than possibly his eyesight and posture when he was a young teenager. It seems to me violence in games (or movies) can only trigger violence that already exists in the mind of the player. Personally, I find excessive on-screen violence to be exhausting and stressful, but I'm not judging people who like it.

So basically what I was saying was that it is a bit silly to condemn astrology because some people may spend money on it and relatively speaking, it is not that much money. We all have pastimes, hobbies, and entertainment that someone else might consider a waste of money.

Oh and over the years, my son has spend a lot of money on video games and game systems. He's only slowed down because he has a house and large yard to maintain and young twin boys. When he was young, the games kept him out of trouble, which was an added bonus.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #113)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:51 PM

117. I like the open world games

A lot of them have violent combat but the exploration is what I like. The next Assassin's Creed Valhalla which comes out next month the main character is a Viking and exploring Norway & UK during 800s AD sounds like a lot of fun.
This is the DU member formerly known as JonLP24.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #117)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:11 PM

123. There you go

Combining history with entertainment! I haven't watched my son play games in a long time, but he liked a wide variety, especially anything that is very creative and challenging. And of course, anything that is science fiction related. His poor wife doesn't understand why we are both such sci-fi geeks, but over the years he's gotten her a tad bit interested. Science fiction tends to be in our genes.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #93)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:32 AM

155. How is it "entertainment" if people actually think it works?

Really, my dude?

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:48 AM

56. I want intelligent people on the DU! Nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #56)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:51 AM

75. That's so generalizing and harsh! I'm actually a little shocked.

People liking to follow such things as astrology does not necessarily indicate a diminishment of their intellectual abilities. Sometimes it is an escape or distraction. Sometimes it is a hobby. If it's their belief, then so be it. A lot of people have beliefs that confuse me, but I don't necessarily lump them into a category of being intellectually deficient. I've had friends who are Mormon. I can't wrap my mind around their belief system, but I would NEVER consider them to be stupid for believing it. I respect that they have a belief system that is different from mine.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #75)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:56 AM

78. If you had an acquaintance who held illogical beliefs..

Say, a co-worker who sincerely believed and insisted that the Earth is flat, the moon is made out of cheese and the moon landings are fake... would you not allow those irrational beliefs to color any other beliefs that person held?

How could you ignore those known absurdities when evaluating the latest conspiracy theory they regurgitated and, more importantly, why would you want to?

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Response to PTWB (Reply #78)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:59 AM

82. I think we're wandering a bit off the path, here

The whole purpose of my posts is it is really, really unnecessary to call out fellow DUers, who hold different views and interests from what people consider to be the 'norm' as being stupid. Just trash the forum if it is so offensive, and skip or trash any posts on the topic that wander from that forum. It's just a better way, IMHO, than being rude and insulting to people you don't know, and whose views your are very likely to never change.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #75)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:57 AM

80. Flat Earthers ok? Anti-Vacs ok? Covid is a Hoax ok? Mind readers ok?

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:11 AM

62. "---valid to them---"? Isn't that saying they are entitled to have their chosen set of

"alternative facts"?

And, these "benign beliefs" reportedly helped set Reagan's schedule.

I do not oppose anyone's right to believe anything they choose to believe. But, mere beliefs are not an appropriate basis for political opinions.

But, that's just what I believe.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #62)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:27 AM

68. And I believe they do have rights to their own beliefs - they're not maliciously impacting others.

The segue to Reagan is a stretch but I understand where you were going with it.

I'm the kind of person who believes that pretty much anything (but not everything) is 'possible' but a whole lot of things are definitely not 'probable'. I can be skeptical without being dogmatic.

But I digress. My biggest point is that you can question someone's beliefs with out being rude and/or insulting. Andy maybe that wasn't your intention, but it is how it came across, to me, by your wording.

And that's what I believe.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:41 AM

72. "Their beliefs aren't harmful"?

You might want to reconsider that position.

Even if believing anything untrue weren't inherently harmful--which it most certainly is--one must still reckon with the countless people parted from their hard-earned money by predatory fraudsters promising "services" that just aren't real.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #72)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:50 AM

74. I think you are digging way to far into this. I'm referring to the people on DU

If you want to disparage them, that's on you.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #74)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:58 AM

81. You talk about them like they exist in a vacuum.

They don't. They inhabit the real world. Every day, they make decisions that affect not only themselves, but others. Now, tell me again that this nonsense is harmless.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #81)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:00 AM

84. I'm talking about not being rude and insulting to fellow DUers

That's my main point. It serves no purpose.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #84)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:36 AM

156. As long as we're just making assertions, neither does sanctimonious finger-wagging.

And yet here you are.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #156)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:21 AM

159. I hope that let's you feel better.

Truly. Madly. Deeply.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:47 AM

55. Lol!

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:32 AM

69. I've notice there are several here who enjoy lecturing the rest of us.

Iíve seen it time and time again on all kinds of subjects.

Go figure.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:16 PM

124. Because some people need something to be upset over.

So instead of ignoring threads that irritate they need to see them and then complain.

I canít imagine living that way. Doesnít seem like it is very good for your blood pressure.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #124)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:22 PM

125. We are of the same mindset

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #124)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:40 PM

144. Well said, EllieBC. boom.

And, that is why we have Groups now on DU.. so people can post peacefully without interlopers proclaiming they know better.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:14 AM

8. Yes, master

As you say dear leader.

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Response to bobnicewander (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:42 PM

145. lol... not really.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:14 AM

9. Are you talking about posts in General Discussion, or posts in the Astrology group? n/t

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:15 AM

10. It doesn't pick my pocket

On the other hand, whenever I hear a pitch from a so-called Christian businessperson, my hand reflexively clutches my wallet for safekeeping.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:24 AM

18. Can I get a...

Halleluiah?

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:16 AM

11. My three fav takes on the whole 'astrology, homeopathy, religion, psychic,' horseshit bandwagon:


Dara O'Braian -


Dylan Moran -


Tim Minchin -

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:21 AM

94. These were terrific! Thanks for sharing. nt

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Response to chowder66 (Reply #94)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:29 AM

97. Glad you enjoyed them. Here in France we're plagued with the homeopathy people.

Makes me crazy.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #97)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:31 AM

99. I get that. I'm in California.nt

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Response to chowder66 (Reply #99)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:34 AM

100. Well, at least you're close to lots of water.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #100)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:36 AM

102. lol.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:19 PM

132. I prefer belief systems that make me think (and laugh).

I often think about a cultural anthropology class during college where religion was defined as ďa means to control the uncontrollableď. Great clips - thanks for sharing!

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Response to Duncan Grant (Reply #132)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:24 PM

133. It's always interesting to me that English, Irish, Scottish, and Australian comedians have a better

Handle on this stuff.

Sure, George Carlin, Lewis Black, et al are good.
But to get to the heart of the thing the UK comics are the best.

And they're not as 'angry'.

That anger could, of course, be an entirely different discussion on the styles of humour in the UK and the US.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:16 AM

12. Pyramid power is my favorite tale

Started off as an April Fools article in Scientific America

And so it goes.

Don't forget the iChing and Scientology

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Response to BSdetect (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:22 AM

16. Oh, yeah!

Pyramid power!

I remember one Christmas visiting the relatives and all of the adults were passing around an article about it and discussing a pyramid's ability to sharpen knives.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:17 AM

13. Is this something that people -- here -- didn't realize?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:26 AM

43. Some posts appear regularly in general discussion so, apparently, yes. See the defensive posts

in this thread.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #43)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:47 PM

146. "Defensive"? Oh because they don't

Think you're all that for attacking other members on DU who have a different belief system than you?

I agree with them.

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Response to Cha (Reply #146)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:01 PM

147. A "different belief system"? Uh, ok. I guess that is one way to describe it. Disingenuous, but

your choice.

We differ.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #147)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:08 PM

149. you don't know what you're talking about

insulting others for being "disingenuous".

We have a lot of different Groups here on DU so people can post peacefully without being attacked.

But here you are in GD Attacking another Forum on DU.

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Response to Cha (Reply #149)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:33 PM

152. Where was all this righteous indignation when Christian's were being mocked for believing

"ghosts" and "sky spirits" and the like?

Anyone can choose to believe---or not---as they decide is best. But, predicting future events and defining another's personality and talents based on their personal beliefs is silly. It is the antithesis of rational thought.

I am sorry if that is considered "insulting", but I could choose to be insulted by those who insist that I share their respect for what they call their "beliefs". I would not respect a poster who insisted that such and such was sure to occur on November 3rd because "God had told them in great detail what will happen". Why should I respect similar predictions based on "Mercury's ascendancy"?

Finally, i did not "attack" any forum. I criticized posts read in General Discussion which assumed the relevance and reliability of astrologers' predictions.

I stand by that criticism.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #152)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:50 PM

153. Of course you "stand by" attacking another Forum on DU.

Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing (Group)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1220

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Response to Cha (Reply #153)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 07:01 AM

154. That is a forum. As explained above, I did not attack it. I regret that you disagree. nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:22 AM

15. it's all pseudoscience. just ignore it.

This is the DU member formerly known as NRaleighLiberal.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:31 AM

21. Gravity is overrated too.

All things exert gravity in direct proportion to their mass. Who came up with that shit?
Oh, and tides are phony too.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:35 PM

142. Tides Are A Daily Prank

The fish all swim toward shore, then at night go the other way.
Darned fish!

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:35 AM

22. I'm a Taurus so I don't believe in astrology...

but seriously there is a lot of money changing hsnds on this stuff. I have been friends with a qualified Astrologer the cash used to learn the ropes and get that certificate was extreme.

Astrologers charge for their services as well. People take this stuff as gospel and make serious decisions on that basis.

I pulled out of that scene once I got good psychiatric help. It isn't harmless, trust me, I've seen it from the inside. The scene is as heavy as a cult in some ways.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:37 AM

23. When my puppy dumps his food and water bowls over, I can predict how the day will go

just by staring at the mess.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #23)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:57 AM

27. ahhh, EVERY day is a good day with a new puppy.

Messes and all.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:49 AM

26. What we call astrology is a bastardization of

ancient astronomy, according to some books I've read. It was largely about predicting certain geological events and climate trends over the time it takes Earth to go through its cycle of movements in relation to the constellations that surround us. That took about 36,000 years, divided by twelve sections with 3,000 years each.

The zodiac, with its twelve different signs, descends from this early science. The zodiac is a map that shows where Earth is in relation to the stars, not a chart that's related to people's birthdays and personality traits. We're in the Age of Aquarius now because we're in the area of that constellation. We will probably see certain trends related to Earth science during this age, but this won't be related to any horoscope having to do with birthdays and personality traits. Other people are a lot better at explaining all this than I am, I just tried to simplify it some.



This is the DU member formerly known as LuvNewcastle.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 07:58 AM

28. Astrology is usually based on the Zodiac as it was 130 BCE

However, due to the precession of the earth's axis of about 1 degree per 72 years, the calculations are off by about 30 degrees from the actual current star positions. Therefore, astrological predictions are off by about one sign.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:01 AM

29. there you go, bringing science and stuff

into it. Yeeesh!!! (sarcasm)

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:03 AM

30. Many people say Trump is the worst Gemini ever



The current president ó Donald Trump ó is a Gemini. Those born under the sign of the twins are known for being chatty, sociable, repetitive, and sometimes a bit two-faced.

https://www.businessinsider.com/zodiac-signs-us-presidents-2018-6#the-current-president-is-a-gemini-6

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #30)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:07 AM

48. Fun fact: most white collar criminals are Gemini

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:06 AM

31. The stars and planets (other than earth) have zero effect on anyone's life

There is so much nonsense out there.

Horoscopes are generally harmless and people read them for fun. But there's a large enough segment of society who honestly make important life decisions based on astrological signs, it's concerning.

The disdain for science in the US has allowed all sorts of nonsense to flourish, from astrology to global warming denial, to anti vaxxers, to buttery males. It's all connected, and without it we wouldn't have had Trump.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:09 AM

32. buttery males O.o?

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:14 AM

36. But her emails.

Just all a bunch of nonsense that preyed on people's ignorance.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #36)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:15 AM

38. ah I understand now.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:12 AM

33. Meteors, on the other hand, can really wreck your day...

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #33)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:20 AM

53. Meteors, schmeteors!

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:11 AM

50. It's all part of a continuum too

The whole "my opinion is as good as your facts" attitude that too many people have isn't just why people believe in astrology, it's behind dangerous ideas like anti-mask behavior and Qanon.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:25 AM

42. and Tarot

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Response to eShirl (Reply #42)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:28 AM

44. I have fun with tarot cards sometimes...

as a meditation tool, but predict anything? Nope.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #44)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:33 AM

45. and some decks have amazing artwork

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Response to eShirl (Reply #45)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 08:41 AM

46. yeah I have a few sets...

some are meh but my fave has brilliant art.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:09 AM

49. Try ordering an Astrology profile from Astrodienst by Liz Greene


With your time of birth and place of birth and see if it doesn't match you to a good degree of accuracy. It is very expensive though. $65


https://www.astro.com/prod/pr_ph_e.htm#ord

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Response to Beringia (Reply #49)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:16 AM

52. Better yet, order two or more...

Only one with your real birth info, the others randomized.

Then without knowing which chart came from which info, try to pick out which one is yours.

This experiment has been done before. Perhaps not particularly with this one vendor, but it has been done. People do no better than chance at picking which charts/predictions/characterizations are for their own birth info, or someone else's.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #49)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:51 AM

58. Why in the hell would anyone do this??? Nt

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Response to Beringia (Reply #49)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:12 AM

89. "Please throw away $65."

 

Yeah no.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:45 AM

54. Interesting take.

What I know about astrology is that it's not a belief system, that's the big mistake most make when attacking it. Astrology is the oldest form of time keeping known to man. In fact, everyone uses astrology everyday by observing where the sun is to determine what the date and time of day are.

There are many levels of application and there are also many to capitalize on the lack of understanding by others who have been lead to believe that it is a belief system or some religious thing when it is not.

I see it as a puzzle but that's as far into it as I will go for the sake of lessening the flaming about it.

Castigate it all you want, I just see you as someone who doesn't understand history and chose to label something you don't understand. If you did understand it, you would know that what most people are shown is nothing but a simplified abomination with false claims of belief systems and "fortune telling" which are everything that astrology is not in order to dismiss it.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:49 AM

57. Yeah, that's it.

People go to astrologists to determine where the sun is. Good take.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #57)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:11 AM

61. LMFAO

 

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:13 AM

63. astrology is to astronomy

what alchemy is to chemistry... an antecedent, known to be wrong, but surviving on credulity.

Sorry we use astronomy these days, because it works.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #63)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:19 AM

65. Whatever.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #63)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:59 PM

127. Bingo - And scene.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:22 AM

66. LOL, parody post I assume. Almost fooled me! nt

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:09 PM

110. observing where the sun is astronomical observation

not astrological

the two fields diverged quite a while ago

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:02 PM

121. You do know that astronomy and astrology aren't the same thing, right?

Iím going to give you the benefit of the doubt and congratulate you on a well constructed piece of bait.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #121)


Response to PTWB (Reply #121)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 03:42 PM

136. Did you watch the entire sky? If not I suggest you do

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #136)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 04:07 PM

138. You're replying to the wrong person.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:04 AM

59. I'm kinda glad

 

my doctor doesn't believe in balancing "the humors of the body" or bloodletting to treat my ailments.

Theodoric of York.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:37 AM

70. The Whole Idea of Keeping Time Based...

on planetary orbits is terrible. Holidays, anniversaries, birthdays... None of it means anything. I'll take the time off though.
This is the DU member formerly known as jayfish.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:13 AM

90. Calling Miss Cleo

Let us PREY!

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Response to malaise (Reply #90)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:38 PM

112. We need a White House astrologer

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #112)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:49 PM

115. Hehehehehhe

Yes she helped folks reach here

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:23 AM

95. The only difference between a cult and a religion

is the number of members.

How astrology is still a thing is amazing. Any belief that falls apart under the most basic scientific scrutiny deserves to be relegated to the dustbin of history. Same thing with Karma, like the universe has feelings, etc.

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Response to AnyFunctioningAdult (Reply #95)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:57 PM

120. I enjoy talking about karma jokingly, but unfortunately the universe...

...shows no signs of interest in actually enforcing it.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 11:27 AM

96. Uh oh

[link:|
This is the DU member formerly known as KatyMan.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 12:04 PM

109. Fresh new perspective you have here

Gonna expand on it and have it published?

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Response to ornotna (Reply #109)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 01:03 PM

122. What?

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Response to ornotna (Reply #109)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:27 PM

140. Lol.

This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:19 PM

131. I just watched Hair for the first time the other night...

It was quite good

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 02:38 PM

134. I feel the same way about money. Worst cult EVER!

This thing we call economic "productivity" isn't productivity at all. It is, in fact, a direct measure of the damage we are doing to the earth's natural environment and our own human spirit.

Here's the thing about human belief systems: No matter how bizarre, no matter how they deny science, they become our reality. If we chose to believe, or if we are forced to believe, they become real.

If I get my head chopped off by some religious asshole because I 'dissed his pathetic god, or I die homeless and hungry because I am "unemployable," then I am just as dead.

So far as we engage with a world economy that burns fossil fuels we are all participants in a suicide cult.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else here. I burned four gallons of gasoline yesterday driving to San Francisco and back. 40% of my DU posts are powered by natural gas.

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Response to hunter (Reply #134)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 03:55 PM

137. in a large complex society barter economics

fall apart. Money is simply a shorthand way of 'storing' your goods or services so you can exchange them in a meaningful way. What gets added on and how value is determined is arguable.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #137)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:21 PM

139. All you have to do is believe in it.

In God we trust.

It says so, right on the dollar.




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Response to hunter (Reply #139)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 05:28 PM

141. it's as real as borders and units of measurement

these are all things we agree upon so complex societies can function. eh whatever huh?

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #141)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 09:24 PM

143. Just because we can't imagine something doesn't mean it's impossible.

I sometimes wonder how a Star Trek Next Generation economy might work and discuss my speculative economics here on DU.

Here's a thread I started:

Why the falling cost of light matters

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127108076

There's a long thread started by undergroundpanther here:

do we really need a money system?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10022920665

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Response to hunter (Reply #143)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:20 PM

151. star trek tng's economy is based on being able

to create anything from pretty much nothing with endless energy. Money is not the issue, it's the distribution of resources. Money is just a tool like language and numbers.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Oct 19, 2020, 10:04 PM

148. Not going to crap on anyone's belief systems after all..

some folks think Jesus was blonde with blue eyes ..

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