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PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:02 AM Oct 2020

I awakened thinking that on top of being insane,

He has the weirdest hang-ups I personally have ever witnessed.

The hair and makeup are almost the least of the issues with him. This running water thing with showers and toilets is grounded in some real Freudian issues: urinary incontinence or flow issues I am virtually certain play a big role in his life , and I would venture to say that his psychological makeup includes involuntary defecation not necessarily due to drugs or diet, but to sheer lack of will to excuse himself and rush off to a toilet. There are a fair number of people who suffer from this humiliating condition, I knew one personally when I was in high school. The lack of control over ones own waste is a statement and if the stories about the pee tapes are true, then it is a validation of his excretory habits: women peeing on themselves and a bed or rug are identifiable and reassuring to him.

Thus the gold toilet: it’s not just gaudiness: it is a statement that his excretory functions play a large role in his life and the receptacle is thus hallowed ground.

I could go on and on about his speaking style, word choice, clothing, elevator shoes, obsession with golf and cheating thereof (another megalomaniac who cheated at golf was Goldfinger in the Fleming book of the same name), food choices, heavy drug usage while claiming he’s never ever used, compulsive lying...each of these deserves its own chapter in a book, but what really interests me is the Stormy Daniels escapade.

I’m going to speak frankly. She is a professional: she acted in films which depict explicit sexuality and actors in which participants are chosen expressly for specific attributes. It’s like professional wrestling: it may be acting but you have to have the qualifications and the physique at that level to successfully participate. Also, as in any theatrical milieu, it’s a job with a script, it isn’t the actor’s or actress”s persona on the screen. They’re human beings. Now given the apparent shortcomings of this man whom we are discussing, why would he place himself in a position wherein he would be ridiculed by this professional woman who knows her way around the block very well? It would be as though an owner of a baseball team put himself at shortstop for 162 games just because he can. It has the potential for terrible embarrassment and what’s more: you can bet he has watched lots and lots of pornography over his lifetime and practices sex antithetically to how it’s is generally scripted: some manner of physical foreplay followed by many minutes of conjugation. This is the societal definition of sex, and most people practice a variant of this, with mixed results, but a game try nevertheless. He is according to Ms Daniels, inept in every metric of this skill set. He therefore has an eight year old male’s vision of sex: you wriggle around and finish quickly because it feels good.

Many years ago you may recall the headline in the NY tabloid that Marla Maples said it was the best sex she ever had. I knew even back then that it was a lie planted by his publicist or him, or he paid her to say that. It was such an obvious PR stunt. And thus another lie. And that is just how it works with him: a pyramid of lies which is going to implode shortly. This is one psychologically strange individual whose personal habits and pathological obsessions are not fully realized or plumbed but I would submit that there are many loads of laundry with extra bleach and Lysol in the washing machine.

Of course he has everyone sign NDA’s because these types of incidents reveal the true nature of this individual: narcissistic sociopath with untold numbers of pathologies associated and now, due to collapse of his world, a likely psychotic episode in progress.

And I have but scratched the surface.

94 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I awakened thinking that on top of being insane, (Original Post) PCIntern Oct 2020 OP
There are a few things that I will never understand. madaboutharry Oct 2020 #1
Quick answers - Citizen Kane empedocles Oct 2020 #18
"...over 40% of the population. What do they see in this damaged and sick man?" jaxexpat Oct 2020 #22
I don't think Trump is an anomaly Buckeyeblue Oct 2020 #24
According to Mary Trump he has been in a form of 'institutionalization' his whole life... Hugin Oct 2020 #44
Good post empedocles Oct 2020 #53
Thanks. Hugin Oct 2020 #65
He's Like a Human Version of a Veal Skraxx Oct 2020 #57
Excellent metaphor. Hugin Oct 2020 #61
Sure, No Problem! Skraxx Oct 2020 #63
They see that he openly hates black people. Kingofalldems Oct 2020 #45
You've pretty much answered questions 1 and 2... Raster Oct 2020 #47
It is pretty mindboggling PatSeg Oct 2020 #48
Traits of Trump supporters Danascot Oct 2020 #68
+1 Hugin Oct 2020 #69
"Intergroup contact" PatSeg Oct 2020 #70
Even 2 different races having a baby makes a difference. I have experienced Maraya1969 Oct 2020 #80
Oh yes PatSeg Oct 2020 #92
the attraction to scammers goes back to the old medicine shows NRaleighLiberal Oct 2020 #50
. . . and movies empedocles Oct 2020 #52
Spectacular, perspicuous, insights. empedocles Oct 2020 #2
I'm just a dentist who has dealt with PCIntern Oct 2020 #5
So impressed here empedocles Oct 2020 #20
Boy, when the "Father of Rhetoric" finds you impressive - ZZenith Oct 2020 #82
Plausible Bayard Oct 2020 #3
He craves fame. I'm pretty sure the name trump will go down in history captain queeg Oct 2020 #4
Agreed Sherman A1 Oct 2020 #7
Trumps narcissism is off the charts. My Pet Orangutan Oct 2020 #17
A grammarian is smarter... PCIntern Oct 2020 #71
A wood box is smarter :) My Pet Orangutan Oct 2020 #72
Your right... N_E_1 for Tennis Oct 2020 #11
PCIntern malaise Oct 2020 #6
And I yours... PCIntern Oct 2020 #8
This applies to every area of his life malaise Oct 2020 #10
There is nothing more wounding PCIntern Oct 2020 #14
and publicly malaise Oct 2020 #15
And say what you want about her: PCIntern Oct 2020 #16
Yep malaise Oct 2020 #19
And we have to suspect that if post-coital signs of affection Ilsa Oct 2020 #41
There was no love in his family home malaise Oct 2020 #46
Post-coitally he probably goes in the bathroom PCIntern Oct 2020 #60
I remember Lava. Ilsa Oct 2020 #64
Lava As A Skin Drying Agent ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #75
Thanks for the soap lesson I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2020 #78
They Do! ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #87
What has been your experience with 'Savon de Marseille'? GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #85
It's A True Soap ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #86
Interesting. I think we're going to stick to Savon de Marseille, not least because Marius Fabre GoneOffShore Oct 2020 #88
Perfectly Good Reason ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #94
I think you are on to something. smirkymonkey Oct 2020 #9
It is not atypical PCIntern Oct 2020 #12
Very astute observation. smirkymonkey Oct 2020 #25
Morning thoughts birdographer Oct 2020 #55
I think that would be an interesting topic to explore as well. smirkymonkey Oct 2020 #73
Weak sense of self Wicked Blue Oct 2020 #90
my wife said onethatcares Oct 2020 #26
Please assure her for me ZZenith Oct 2020 #83
That's what boggles my mind. GoCubsGo Oct 2020 #28
I briefly encountered him back in the 1980s and was viscerally repulsed Wicked Blue Oct 2020 #77
Ugh. I got a sense of that from my random encounters with him Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2020 #81
KnR...very interesting...nt N_E_1 for Tennis Oct 2020 #13
He's one defective unit spanone Oct 2020 #21
Interesting insight. That his whole warped personality might revolve around his bathroom "habits" Vinca Oct 2020 #23
My late husband was a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst mnhtnbb Oct 2020 #27
Thank you empedocles Oct 2020 #29
Interesting synthesis. JudyM Oct 2020 #30
What is the psychology behind someone who seems like he is invulnerable Beringia Oct 2020 #31
He doesn't envision that scenario. PCIntern Oct 2020 #32
He is terrified of appearing weak. n/t MicaelS Oct 2020 #51
I hate to say this, but what if he's already undead? Wicked Blue Oct 2020 #89
I had same idea, like the character in Practical Magic who came back from the dead Beringia Oct 2020 #93
The image that comes to my mind, is the photo of him in his shit-stained golf pants. 3Hotdogs Oct 2020 #33
That Marla Maples quote is something else. dubyadiprecession Oct 2020 #34
Here PCIntern Oct 2020 #35
Yes, The 'New York Post'! dubyadiprecession Oct 2020 #37
There were reports that trump did that, and many similiar things for publicity empedocles Oct 2020 #56
"Miss Maples concluded her comments with the admission that Ilsa Oct 2020 #42
THAT I sincerely doubt... PCIntern Oct 2020 #43
Odd question Nexus2 Oct 2020 #36
Having nothing to do with nutrition, PCIntern Oct 2020 #40
He's a hot mess of overlapping mental, emotional, and psychological disorders. Roisin Ni Fiachra Oct 2020 #38
Great analysis PC. The reason for the golden toilet. panader0 Oct 2020 #39
Great stuff! well done...food for thought. NRaleighLiberal Oct 2020 #49
This WAS THE Greatest thing I have read about our onecent Oct 2020 #54
Did trump have a nervous breakdown after divorcing Ivana? Ilsa Oct 2020 #58
I don't know about that at all, PCIntern Oct 2020 #59
I awakened thinking that on top of being insane... Silent3 Oct 2020 #62
Trump's pathologies could provide ample material for an entire abnormal psychology textbook dlk Oct 2020 #66
Trump's defects and dysfunctions could fill up a DSM... 3catwoman3 Oct 2020 #67
Lewis Black was right - you could have a solid gold toilet, you're still going to take a dump in it. Initech Oct 2020 #74
That's a fascinating take on the Mad King. Let me second Malaise: I always look for your posts. Hekate Oct 2020 #76
maybe we shouldn't go where I'm going, but it could be a national security matter. Grasswire2 Oct 2020 #79
excellent analysis Skittles Oct 2020 #84
I have no idea if any of this is true bigtree Oct 2020 #91

madaboutharry

(40,183 posts)
1. There are a few things that I will never understand.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:23 AM
Oct 2020

The first is how Trump has made it this far in his life without having been admitted to a psychiatric unit. The only answer I can think of is that he has experienced psychiatric episodes in the past that should have resulted in hospitalizations, but because of his wealth and his circle of enablers it was covered up.

Second, I don't understand the Trump family. They are witness to behavior behind closed doors that we can only imagine. Yet they do nothing. It looks like brainwashing or some form of mind control that keeps them loyal to the lie.

And third, I do not understand the cult leader power he has over 40% of the population. What do they see in this damaged and sick man?

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
18. Quick answers - Citizen Kane
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:47 AM
Oct 2020

Heart was born into wealth and opportunity. Reportedly suffered psychological trauma, led a scandalous and opportunistic life, power mad, political, befriended Hitler, had great power and influence, generally a huge mess - and ended badly.


'where news meets its scholarly match
Support JSTOR Daily
ARTS & CULTURE
Why William Randolph Hearst Hated Citizen Kane
Most Americans know about William Randolph Hearst through his fictional alter-ego, the protagonist of the film Citizen Kane. Was it an accurate portrait?

Citizen Kane William Randolph Hearst
Orson Welles as Charles Foster Kane in Citizen Kane via Wikimedia Commons Print
William Randolph Hearst made his mark on everything he touched. He was a newspaper publisher, media magnate, aspiring politician, art collector, and more.

Born to a wealthy California family on April 29, 1863, Hearst was a dominant figure of his time. He was credited (and often blamed) for American involvement in the Spanish-American War; he was a proponent in his younger years of progressive causes, only to turn conservative, promoting American isolationism before World War II and opposing President Franklin Delano Roosevelt with his network of newspapers, magazines, and radio stations across the country.

Hearst was said to have an acute fear of death, never allowed the subject to be spoken of in his presence.
While a grand public figure of his day, for many Americans Hearst is best known via the title character of Orson Welles’ 1941 movie Citizen Kane, considered one of the greatest American films of all time.

Hearst was the basis for the Charles Foster Kane protagonist of the film, portrayed as self-absorbed, power-hungry, and wounded (as symbolized by the Kane’s famous deathbed utterance, “Rosebud.”)

The connections between Hearst and Kane were clear, as noted Citizen Kane scholar Robert L. Carringer has written. Both built massive mansions. Both contrived yellow journalism plots to draft the United States into war with Spain. Both had publishing empires which barely made it through the financial disaster of the Great Depression. In the film, Kane runs unsuccessfully for New York governor, while the real-life Hearst, who served in Congress as a Manhattan Democrat, suffered the same fate in his run for mayor. Both crusaded against corrupt political machines.

The surface connections were real, but so were similarities about which the public was ignorant. The film’s famous “Rosebud” motif is drawn from the real-life Hearst’s love for flowers. The term also is said to signify Hearst’s nickname for the genitalia of Marion Davies, his Hollywood mistress.

. . .

The famous death scene in the film, some speculate, must have grated on Hearst, who was said to have an acute fear of death, never allowing the subject to be spoken of in his presence. It’s not difficult to imagine why Hearst hated the film and did all he could to assure that it would not be commercially successful. His publications ignored it and Hearst used his Hollywood connections to limit its availability in movie houses. . . . ' [interesting review, recommended].

jaxexpat

(6,795 posts)
22. "...over 40% of the population. What do they see in this damaged and sick man?"
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:54 AM
Oct 2020

I think they see themselves, if they had lots of money. Their fantasy self. Surely there is a parallel in voting for Trump and purchasing a lottery ticket. It's pretty easy to imagine that 40% of the population are in serious credit card debt and driven by extreme socio-economic stress, bouncing off life's walls in a perpetually escapist, somnolent state of sincere wakelessness.

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
24. I don't think Trump is an anomaly
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:58 AM
Oct 2020

History is littered with examples where psychotic leaders had a large group of rabid followers. Many people are desperate for someone to follow. As long as that person says the right things and is against the right group of people--and has some degree of charisma--the followers will be there.

As far as the family goes: I'm sure there has been the right amount of emotional abuse and threats about cutting off money to keep the family together. I'm sure his kids probably don't think they are capable of existing outside of the family business. Mostly because their dad has told them that their entire lives.

Trump is a con man and master manipulator. He is willing to say anything. We are now in the phase where he is just making up shit about Biden. And he is becoming very passive aggressive at his rallies. He is in the desperate phase where he essentially is telling his followers that if he doesn't get reelected it's their fault. They need to please him by ensuring he gets reelected.

This presidency will be studied for years to come.

Hugin

(33,032 posts)
44. According to Mary Trump he has been in a form of 'institutionalization' his whole life...
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:07 AM
Oct 2020

Last edited Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Which when you step back it can be seen to be entirely true.

Nannies, wait staff, handed off to various boarding schools... He's never been on his own or even slightly self-reliant. Always, a yes-person a short holler away.

Being surrounded by at-will professional sycophants has damaged him psychologically in so many ways it's hard to even see the life he's led as anything less than alien and incomprehensible to the bulk of people who've led typical lives.

Before he was 'nominated' a co-worker and I were musing about his sniffing and puckered speech. We concluded even at that early time that these idiosyncrasies were probably caused by a social isolation and nothing organic. Almost everyone you encounter in daily life's behavior is the product of 'nature vs nurture'. There are some things we do because of a natural propensity to do those things as a base. Then some of the behaviors either we do or stop doing are because of some external stimulus placing a reward/punishment on us to change. Most of the time it's in the form of a peer/parent/onlooker bluntly telling us via verbal/non-verbal actions that such a behavior is either pleasing/annoying/stupid. Through Trump's isolation and pathologies he has lacked these social cues and/or an awareness of them. Nobody he thought was important enough to pay attention to had ever told him the sniffing and puckered speech were not what someone who wants to move smoothly through society does. It was never corrected or if someone or group tried to put pressure on him to change they were sent away.

This is what unfettered wealth, power, and privilege does to people.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
47. You've pretty much answered questions 1 and 2...
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:45 AM
Oct 2020

1. MONEY, and the power it brings... ESPECIALLY power over his enablers.

2. Again, MONEY and the POWER dynamic.

3. This is the question that will spawn dozens of books and investigations. Ultimately, tRump*s superpower is knowing what buttons to push in somewhat damaged people. And let me be frank, anyone that would allow themselves to be indoctrinated and immersed in the #tRumpCult is damaged in some shape or fashion.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
48. It is pretty mindboggling
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:51 AM
Oct 2020

that he has so much power over so many, but throughout history, tyrants were often extremely damaged people.

Money and the support of his father and family, helped to keep Trump from totally self-destructing when he was young. A more sensitive family would have sought out therapy for him at a young age, but Trump's parents sent him to military school instead. They often reinforced and rewarded his sociopathic behavior.

Still it really is hard to understand how he has fooled so many people, which I suppose says more about 40% of our population than it does about Donald Trump. If it hadn't been Trump, eventually it probably would have been someone else.

Danascot

(4,689 posts)
68. Traits of Trump supporters
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 11:20 AM
Oct 2020

There are a number of articles on traits of Trump supporters. Bobby Azarian, a science writer with a PhD in neuroscience has written a succinct summary of traits briefly stated below.

This Disturbing Psychological Analysis of Trump Supporters Has Exposed Key 5 Traits About Them

https://www.alternet.org/2019/12/this-disturbing-psychological-analysis-of-trump-supporters-has-exposed-key-5-traits-about-them/

Authoritarian Personality Syndrome
- Authoritarianism refers to the advocacy or enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom, and is commonly associated with a lack of concern for the opinions or needs of others

Social dominance orientation (SDO)
—which is distinct but related to authoritarian personality syndrome—refers to people who have a preference for the societal hierarchy of groups, specifically with a structure in which the high-status groups have dominance over the low-status ones.

Prejudice - It would be grossly unfair and inaccurate to say that every one of Trump’s supporters have prejudice against ethnic and religious minorities, but it would be equally inaccurate to say that many do not.

Intergroup contact - refers to contact with members of groups that are outside one’s own, which has been experimentally shown to reduce prejudice. As such, it’s important to note that there is growing evidence that Trump’s white supporters have experienced significantly less contact with minorities than other Americans.

Relative Deprivation
- refers to the experience of being deprived of something to which one believes they are entitled. It is the discontent felt when one compares their position in life to others who they feel are equal or inferior but have unfairly had more success than them.

In addition there are pieces that identify differences in thinking between conservatives and liberals. One example:

Red Versus Blue Brain: Neuropolitics

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuroscience-in-everyday-life/202010/red-versus-blue-brain-neuropolitics.



PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
70. "Intergroup contact"
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 11:47 AM
Oct 2020

I have repeatedly seen first hand what a big difference this makes in people's attitudes towards others. For many, it has come from working with people from different ethnic backgrounds, where they are surprised to find that seemingly "different" people aren't really all that different.

Living in diverse neighborhoods really helps as well, especially if you have children, who are more inclined to socialize with children of different races. This eventually brings the parents together, who find they have more in common than they'd thought. Get some mothers together to chat while their children are playing and they all have similar stories. I've lived in places like that and I loved it. You stop seeing race or ethnicity, when you start to see the actual person and share your common experiences.

It is the separateness that tends to separate us and in the long run as humans, we are more alike than we are different.

Maraya1969

(22,459 posts)
80. Even 2 different races having a baby makes a difference. I have experienced
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 11:45 PM
Oct 2020

it in boths sides of my family of origin. Two cousins, (white) married or had kids with black partners. So far 5 babies are born that are both black and white.

The older family members who were set in their ways and, I must even admit some were racist just melted when they saw their grandchild's face. They love them like they love their other grandchildren and they see the world differently afterward.

Plus then your family is integrated and family gatherings are integrated.

It really works wonders.

PatSeg

(47,239 posts)
92. Oh yes
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 10:42 AM
Oct 2020

That really does make a difference. There are a handful of hardcore racists I suppose, who will never budge an inch, but they are an extremely small minority. Being part of an integrated family then influences people in your community. When I lived in California, I met a lot of people of mixed race and I often didn't know what race they were. On numerous occasions I was surprised to find out someone was part black or part Asian.

As we evolve more as a society, racial differences will become relatively normal and insignificant. The same with sexual orientation. Once something becomes familiar, it becomes less threatening. We begin to see people as individuals first and connect where we have common interests. For me as a woman, it was often about child raising and relationships. I had a close friend and neighbor whose life in many respects mirrored my own - single divorced mothers with a daughter and a son from two different relationships.

Though I've always been open minded, I have also had the advantage of living places that were very multicultural and diverse. This is how I view the future.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,006 posts)
50. the attraction to scammers goes back to the old medicine shows
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:56 AM
Oct 2020

and today's infomercials.

trump is so shocking because he's rolled so many dysfunctions of himself and his cult into one big steaming heap.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
2. Spectacular, perspicuous, insights.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:24 AM
Oct 2020

[PCI, what is your background? Great work on this. Hope you scratch the surface some more, and then go deeper. Hope we have a, or another, psychoanalyst here at DU to go on.]

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
5. I'm just a dentist who has dealt with
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:30 AM
Oct 2020

More than 80,000 patients of record. I have some training in diagnosis of psychological and psychiatric disorders.

Bayard

(22,004 posts)
3. Plausible
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:24 AM
Oct 2020

Goes along with what we see in public, where black is white, and white is black. In the words of Jack Nicholson--He can't handle the truth.

captain queeg

(10,084 posts)
4. He craves fame. I'm pretty sure the name trump will go down in history
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:25 AM
Oct 2020

And it will be attached to many horrible traits. Just malignant narcissism is the most obvious and future psychology books will use his name as a shortcut to spelling the technical term out. Fraud,con, traitor, etc are a few others.

My Pet Orangutan

(9,172 posts)
17. Trumps narcissism is off the charts.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:46 AM
Oct 2020

I remember Mike Bloomberg talking about his last phone call with Trump. Mike told him, surround yourself with people smarter than yourself. Trump replied, 'there's nobody. There is not anybody smarter than me'.

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
71. A grammarian is smarter...
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 01:08 PM
Oct 2020

He or she would know that “smarter than I (am)” is the proper construction.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,661 posts)
11. Your right...
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:40 AM
Oct 2020

It’s already happening...I’ve heard people referring to others as “ trumpian” instead of “like trump” or “acting just like trump”.

It may even replace “faustian”, although it would portray a much, much more flawed individual.

malaise

(268,664 posts)
10. This applies to every area of his life
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:39 AM
Oct 2020

A great line
He is according to Ms Daniels, inept in every metric of this skill set.

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
16. And say what you want about her:
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:45 AM
Oct 2020

Objectively she’s a gorgeous woman with a quick mind and a great wit.

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
41. And we have to suspect that if post-coital signs of affection
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:00 AM
Oct 2020

are part of this skill set, he's totally deficient in this as well. I bet he's incapable of being affectionate.

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
60. Post-coitally he probably goes in the bathroom
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:26 AM
Oct 2020

And washes himself and his mushroom in Lava soap.

In case you never used Lava soap think coarse grit sandpaper as a bar of soap

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
64. I remember Lava.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:40 AM
Oct 2020

My dad kept it for after changing his oil, etc or gardening. It was also very drying.

I'm in my 60s so I remember alot of stuff unless it was too expensive for us or a regional product (like White Castle).

ProfessorGAC

(64,827 posts)
75. Lava As A Skin Drying Agent
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:33 PM
Oct 2020

Jumping in as surfactant chemistry was one of my specialties.
Lava is a true soap. Most of what we use are synthetic detergents or a mix of the two.
The phase behavior of soap differs from detergents as does the full solubility.
The micellization and phase structures differ a bit as it's easier at the surface, due to the reduced solubility, to form water inverted micellar tubes.
The emollients, very water soluble, get trapped inside those "tubes" and far less is deposited on the substrate. (Skin)
Add to that the abrasiveness of the pumice, and we now have exfoliation, reduced emollient absorption & a higher pH.
It's the reason why "syndet" bars became so popular. And, the growth of liquid & gel hand & body wash products has been profound because of the lower pH, better emollient distribution and general mildness.
I know a bit off topic. I couldn't resist.

ProfessorGAC

(64,827 posts)
87. They Do!
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 07:47 AM
Oct 2020

It's made by the same people who make WD-40 & Carpet Fresh. (Among other brands.)
They're based in San Diego, but they have sites around the world.
Not sure how much manufacturing they do elsewhere. I've been to the San Diego site. But, I wasn't there about Lava or WD-40.

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
85. What has been your experience with 'Savon de Marseille'?
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 04:00 AM
Oct 2020

We've started using the real stuff of late - green olive oil soap with no perfume or dyes for shampoo, hand and body washing. And I use it as a dentifrice.
We also get the white soap, for general cleaning (the brand we use, Marius Fabre no longer uses palm oil).

ProfessorGAC

(64,827 posts)
86. It's A True Soap
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 07:40 AM
Oct 2020

So, the limitations as a surfactant are as described earlier.
Soaps have very poor hard water tolerance. That famous "bath tub ring" or "soap scum" is the result of calcium metathesis (a diffusion like ion transfer mechanism). The calcium version of the soap is not water soluble, therefore useless as a surfactant.
Synthetic detergents can be readily purchased made from all naturally derived raw materials (read, no petroleum base), including RSPO pledges.
So, if you're pursuing sustainable products, there are such green formulations from detergents. You have sustainability, and get the efficacy advantages of detergents over soap. You can get "clear" versions of these, too. (No perfumes or dyes)

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
88. Interesting. I think we're going to stick to Savon de Marseille, not least because Marius Fabre
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 08:56 AM
Oct 2020

Is very much a local product and is artisanally made.

The detergents have advantages, as you state, but then we're supporting a local industry.

ProfessorGAC

(64,827 posts)
94. Perfectly Good Reason
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 01:49 PM
Oct 2020

There's a large manufacturing site about 10 miles north of here that makes about 2 billion pounds of active ingredients for cleaning products, per year.
In a sense, every cleaning product we buy is supporting a local business, albeit one with 20 facilities in 14 countries. LOL!

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
9. I think you are on to something.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:36 AM
Oct 2020

But you have barely scratched the surface, as you have said. His perversions and pathologies are so deep and complicated I don't think we will ever know the whole of it. He is definitely a very sick man.

The bizarre thing is that he appeals to so many people, yet there are so many more of us who are viscerally repulsed by him. What is it that they see in him that makes them practically bow before him? I think the answer to that question would even scare me more than I would ever want to know.

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
12. It is not atypical
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:41 AM
Oct 2020

For groups of individuals to be enthralled by insanity. Witness the film Silence of the Lambs. The fact is, the Hannibal Lecter character appeared on the screen for only a very few minutes in the film, however every vision of that film involves his presence. As an aside, it shows you how remarkable Anthony Hopkins is as an actor that he portrayed that type of pathology so effectively that The performance became iconic literally overnight. Remember what the FBI agent said to the agents Starling, that you can’t let him get inside your head. This is what these insane individuals do and this is what has happened to 40% of America at the very least.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
25. Very astute observation.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:58 AM
Oct 2020

It's pretty twisted, but fascinating at the same time. What is it about these people that makes them so enthralled by such a sick personality? You have to wonder about their level of mental health. Something is not right with these people.

birdographer

(1,304 posts)
55. Morning thoughts
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:14 AM
Oct 2020

I was just thinking about this this morning--not that I don't think about this on many mornings. There are a lot of books out about trump and his administration and his many flaws ("flaws" is far too gentle a word...). I am very interested in what motivates his followers--there are no books on that subject, are there? Lots and lots of articles to be found trying to explain it, but no book that I know of. What made them like that? It's too easy to say "They like him because he is them." Is it fear that drives them? Hate? Why? At some point all of us encountered that moment when we decided which way to break--for trump or against him. What made us say no way and them say he's my guy? I would really, really like to understand the psychology and origin of their leanings. Bad childhood? Bullied a lot? Abandoned?

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
73. I think that would be an interesting topic to explore as well.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 01:44 PM
Oct 2020

An experienced psychiatrist or psychologist would probably be the best person to handle it. At the root of it, I suspect a lot of it is fear, which is behind their hatred. He is their "strong man" protector, even though we all know he is no such thing. But they have fallen for the illusion because they so desperately need it.

Wicked Blue

(5,813 posts)
90. Weak sense of self
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 09:53 AM
Oct 2020

From my observations, people who are unsure about themselves, who have problems developing strong identities for themselves, will sometimes latch on to leaders with charisma, magnetism,and/or a very public personality that strikes some chord in the seekers.

The followers of cult leaders appear to be mostly younger, unformed people looking for places to fit in. Once they join a cult, they find like-minded peers who reinforce one another in the ways of the cult. They find roles. The leader shines approval on them. Of course there are also members who are older but still have weak senses of self.

So, too, people who have not yet formed their own identities might immerse themselves in fandom, whether it be for rock stars, actors, games, comics, cosplay, or even substance abuse. Or organized racism.

I am a retired journalist, but have always been interested in mental health issues. One of my friends from high school joined the Moonies, and I read everything I could find about cults over the years to try and figure out how and why he got roped in by them. As far as I know he's still with them, but I cut off contact decades ago.

onethatcares

(16,161 posts)
26. my wife said
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:58 AM
Oct 2020

that as she's reading posts from her facebook friends that support him, she begins to wonder if she's the crazy one.

ZZenith

(4,115 posts)
83. Please assure her for me
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 03:40 AM
Oct 2020

that she is not the crazy one.

We are all learning profound lessons on “frames” and the human ability to reject reason if it does not fit into what we already believe to be true.

We quit teaching critical thinking skills and basic logic to several generations of children and, voila - President Trump.

GoCubsGo

(32,073 posts)
28. That's what boggles my mind.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:06 AM
Oct 2020

Millions of 'em. A number of them follow him from town to town, like a bunch of goddamn groupies. "Bizarre" doesn't scratch the surface. I get that some people are susceptible to con men, but he has been caught so many times, that it's beyond me why people still believe him. Mind-boggling. I guess if you are ruled by fear and anxiety, anyone who tells you what you want to hear is who you'll follow. Even a freakish, moronic, known con man. Sad. I'd feel sorry for them, if they weren't so hateful and destructive to the rest of us.

Wicked Blue

(5,813 posts)
77. I briefly encountered him back in the 1980s and was viscerally repulsed
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:08 PM
Oct 2020

There seemed to be something so off about him, so diseased, so wrong, that I almost gagged.

This was at some news conference, I think about his casino, that I was sent to cover back in my reporting days.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
81. Ugh. I got a sense of that from my random encounters with him
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 02:16 AM
Oct 2020

in popular culture over the years. And I'm sure he's much more repulsive in person.

He seems to exude a smarmines that sets off alarms in people who sense how perversely dishonest & egomaniacal a person he is and just how much damage such a person can do to others, and with not the slightest bit of remorse. .

Vinca

(50,236 posts)
23. Interesting insight. That his whole warped personality might revolve around his bathroom "habits"
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:56 AM
Oct 2020

never crossed my mind. Do you have other degrees we don't know about? Lots of us need a talented dental psychiatrist.

mnhtnbb

(31,371 posts)
27. My late husband was a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:03 AM
Oct 2020

with over 40 years of experience in clinical practice. He was fascinated by Trump as an individual with serious and deep pathology.

Trump is definitely one sick guy. But I think he also has significant character flaws and lacks any sense of humanity. I'd go so far as to call him evil.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil

JudyM

(29,185 posts)
30. Interesting synthesis.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:15 AM
Oct 2020

This seems like part of his rejection of social norms of good behaviour. He fancies himself a bad boy who can do whatever he wants and acts that way with gusto. Shoot someone on 5th ave. Stiff your contractors. Have multiple affairs. Grab and kiss (and probably rape, including underage girls/models). Verbally steamroll reporters and your debate opponent. Make flagrantly racist statements. Ignore the world’s experts when millions of lives are at stake. Use public office to enrich yourself in obvious ways. Decline briefings on national safety, etc. Golf and watch tv and attempt to be king of Twitter instead of working, while the world hangs in the balance. “Piss on ‘em “ might just be his personal motto.

Beringia

(4,316 posts)
31. What is the psychology behind someone who seems like he is invulnerable
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:15 AM
Oct 2020


My one fallback is that he is human after all, and has to die sometime.

dubyadiprecession

(5,674 posts)
34. That Marla Maples quote is something else.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:22 AM
Oct 2020

It doesn’t sound particularly like something, a woman would say in public.

dubyadiprecession

(5,674 posts)
37. Yes, The 'New York Post'!
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:43 AM
Oct 2020

For some reason ‘The post’(or really trump) felt the need to put that on the front page.

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
42. "Miss Maples concluded her comments with the admission that
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:02 AM
Oct 2020

she was a virgin prior to meeting trump."

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
40. Having nothing to do with nutrition,
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:48 AM
Oct 2020

Diet of fast food such as it is reported that he consumes, leads to fecal irregularities. Trust me I know, when I was in college I worked for Two fast food companies: Carroll’s and McDonald’s in upstate New York. I had consumed way too much of the food, and developed a problem. Fortunately, it was short-lived once I stop eating those establishments.

However, as an aside, in the old days at least the milkshake mix was pure and delicious at McDonald’s and it was a real treat. We used to store it in the freezer and it was ice cold, you poured into a “courtesy cup” (those of you who work in these places will understand completely) and drink it was better than anything I’ve ever tasted.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
38. He's a hot mess of overlapping mental, emotional, and psychological disorders.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:44 AM
Oct 2020

The inevitable complete breakdown will be epic.

Hope a whole lot of adults realize this and are protecting the red button with fail safes before little Donny snaps into the spoiled brat tantrum that permanently takes him over the edge.

onecent

(6,096 posts)
54. This WAS THE Greatest thing I have read about our
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:11 AM
Oct 2020

t rump........WOW......I am going to book it so I can come back and look at this wonderful piece.
Thanks to Malaise AND PCIntern,

WOW.....

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
58. Did trump have a nervous breakdown after divorcing Ivana?
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:19 AM
Oct 2020

I think I heard that he was briefly hospitalized after they split and were going through that ugly, public divorce. I just don't remember when or where I heard it.

PCIntern

(25,467 posts)
59. I don't know about that at all,
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:21 AM
Oct 2020

However I am fairly certain that he was hiding his girlfriend Marla at the home of a dentist whose main residence was in Philadelphia but owned a house right on the Atlantic City Boardwalk. I had heard this from a very reliable colleague of mine who knew the Dentist owner very very well.

If he had a hospitalization for nerves, it was for show only in my opinion. He was playing the media like a fiddle of those days. In fact, virtually nothing has changed in 40 years.

dlk

(11,509 posts)
66. Trump's pathologies could provide ample material for an entire abnormal psychology textbook
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:40 AM
Oct 2020

It’s highly likely he’s a psychopath and has no conscience. Psychopaths are an entirely different breed of human unlike any other. As for the attraction for some voters, it reminds me of pro wrestling. Everyone knows it’s fake but the fans don’t care. They like the show.

3catwoman3

(23,943 posts)
67. Trump's defects and dysfunctions could fill up a DSM...
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:48 AM
Oct 2020

...all by themselves.

A fascinating read - thank you for the time you put into that.

Initech

(100,029 posts)
74. Lewis Black was right - you could have a solid gold toilet, you're still going to take a dump in it.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:17 PM
Oct 2020

Hekate

(90,537 posts)
76. That's a fascinating take on the Mad King. Let me second Malaise: I always look for your posts.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:42 PM
Oct 2020

Further down the thread — so (some) people are actually attracted to insanity? Still thinking that over, but it makes sense in the current context, and in prior moments of history, such as the rise of Hitler.



Grasswire2

(13,565 posts)
79. maybe we shouldn't go where I'm going, but it could be a national security matter.
Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:43 PM
Oct 2020

Where's he getting sexual relief now?

I saw someone imply that his two nights at his Las Vegas hotel provided opportunity. As would any of his stays at his own properties.

Any consorting with persons unknown is a security matter.

We know it's not Melania.

And I think Hope Hicks can do better.

bigtree

(85,971 posts)
91. I have no idea if any of this is true
Thu Oct 22, 2020, 10:02 AM
Oct 2020

...but that was a hell of a good read, and entirely believable. Bravo.

This is how most of us see Trump, juvenile, impudent, and utterly compromised.

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