Joe Biden Needs to Make it Clear that we are AT WAR with Russia

[Skraxx]

A top priority once elected needs to be to pivot the US to war footing against Russia. We are under attack and need to respond in kind. I may even support a Declaration of War at this point in order to make it clear that anyone who aids and abets them is a traitor. That is how we will stop the GOP/Russia alliance and shenanigans.

Have you read this?

The Mystery of the Immaculate Concussion

https://www.gq.com/story/cia-investigation-and-russian-microwave-attacks

Whoever was behind the attacks also began going after Americans on American soil. An American diplomat and his spouse, who had been hit when they were stationed in China, traveled to Philadelphia to get specialized treatment at the University of Pennsylvania. One night in June 2018, according to three government sources, the couple was startled awake by a sound and pressure in their heads similar to what they had felt back in China. On the advice of FBI agents, the family moved to a hotel, but on their second night there, they were again awoken in the early morning hours. Terrified, the parents ran into the room where their children were sleeping to find them moving in their sleep, bizarrely and in unison. In the weeks afterward, the children developed vision and balance difficulties. The family members, whose identities GQ is not revealing for privacy reasons, declined to be interviewed for this story. “I can’t say anything about that,” says attorney Janine Brookner, who represents the family.

Russia suspected of Cold War-style microwave attack on CIA agents in Australia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/cia-agents-believed-attacked-with-microwave-ray-in-australia/12800086

This is not a "Cold War-Style" attack. It is a PHYSICAL attack on our citizens on US SOIL. We are AT WAR. RIGHT NOW.

[BusyBeingBest]

1. Australian soil, but this certainly needs to be addressed.

[Skraxx]

3. Nope, US Soil, From GQ

Whoever was behind the attacks also began going after Americans on American soil. An American diplomat and his spouse, who had been hit when they were stationed in China, traveled to Philadelphia to get specialized treatment at the University of Pennsylvania. One night in June 2018, according to three government sources, the couple was startled awake by a sound and pressure in their heads similar to what they had felt back in China. On the advice of FBI agents, the family moved to a hotel, but on their second night there, they were again awoken in the early morning hours. Terrified, the parents ran into the room where their children were sleeping to find them moving in their sleep, bizarrely and in unison. In the weeks afterward, the children developed vision and balance difficulties. The family members, whose identities GQ is not revealing for privacy reasons, declined to be interviewed for this story. “I can’t say anything about that,” says attorney Janine Brookner, who represents the family.

[coti]

11. There have been a number of attacks all around the world nt

[SoonerPride]

2. I think he will conduct a covert operation

So as not to freak out the public

He is no dummy.

[Skraxx]

5. There Needs to be a Public Front to Hold The Traitors in the US accountable

Of course, it will be mostly a clandestine, intelligence and cyber war, but there needs to be teeth that make it clear that any aiding and abetting is TREASON. The one way to make that abundantly clear is a Declaration of War. Otherwise, it's a grey area since we're not technically at war. The treason needs to stop.

[sir pball]

16. So let me get this straight, you want a declared, hot war with Russia?

I'm all in on holding them to account, but start a literal war with a nuclear superpower?

[Skraxx]

17. They Have Already Attacked US Citizens on US Soil

I'm not saying go nuclear or mobilize troops, but it needs to be made abundantly clear that we are at war with them. They are at war with us and have been for years now. The war could be cyber and intelligence based, but there need to be repercussions for aiding and abetting the Russians. We are already de facto at war with Russia. They are attacking us NOW.

[sir pball]

18. Then we also need to invoke Article 5, correct?

I mean, I don't really see a way of getting around it if we're going to actually declare war (I mean, Congress would never in a million years go along with it, but for the sake of argument..). So then you have the NATO bloc involved, and while you may not want to shoot, I'm not entirely sure Pooty-poot would let, again, LITERAL WAR be declared against him and just keep on with the psy/cyber ops.

You should read Red Storm Rising; if Congress went with your route I'd lay money on that being the result.

[Skraxx]

20. I've Read It

Putin has stepped WAY over the line. He is attacking US citizens on US soil. There needs to be a serious and sustained response. As I said in my OP, I think we may need to consider a Declaration. But I would trust Biden's judgement on the best route. That being said, something needs to be done with these traitors who are aiding and abetting. Technically, they are not "traitors" or committing "treason" unless we are at war. If we declared war and kept it "cold", I doubt Putin is stupid enough to make it "hot". Russia is NOT the Soviet Union anymore and their armed forces/military are VASTLY inferior to ours. If we declared war, it would put our intel on war footing, and they NEED to be on war footing. Treason charges would be very clearly on the table for the traitors aiding and abetting Russia.

Putin is not engaged in JUST psy/cyber ops. He has PHYSICALLY ATTACKED US CITIZENS ON US SOIL. That is an UNPRECEDENTED escalation of hostilities and an act of PHYSICAL HOT WAR already, on his part, with NO US response. NONE.

[sir pball]

25. The main point of my question was NATO

Given that the charter explicitly states that "an attack on one is an attack on all", if you feel we've been attacked to the level of (and I cannot stress this enough) declaring the first formal war since WWII, would you advocate for the other member nations to also make a formal declaration of war against Russia?

Because there is absolutely no situation I can imagine where the UK, France and Germany (really, can't stress this enough) declare war on Russia and it doesn't end really, REALLY badly.

[Skraxx]

30. Putin is Pissing them all Off Too

We’re in unprecedented times and Russia is in de facto war with us already.

[sir pball]

31. So you think NATO needs to act and make the member nations declare War on Russia?

I mean...okay. You know that will NOT end well, right?

[Skraxx]

32. I Think at the Very Least the threat of that possibility

Needs to be considered. Putin is physically attacking our citizens all over the world, including in US soil. That is an act of war.

Read my OP. I said it should be considered. Not that we should definitely do it.

[sir pball]

33. Okay.

[Skraxx]

34. ?

Not sure what your beef is, but whatever.

[sir pball]

36. You think that NATO should mobilize.

Do you not understand the consequences of the US declaring war? Like...really.

[Skraxx]

37. You Like Putting Words in My Mouth. Like, really.

[PJMcK]

4. You're right

First, VP Biden has to win the election. Then he can act.

The list of things he'll have to do is exhaustingly long. But you're absolutely on target that the U.S. needs to define Russia and Putin as hostile powers and use our complete strength against them.

[stillcool]

6. that is one good article...

I'm surprised so much is known, hiding in plain sight...but it's Mother Russia. Like Donald, they do no wrong, and Jan. 20th is eons away.

[Skraxx]

7. Isn't It? An Amazing Read, How Often Do We Get A Look Like this "Inside", and SO RECENTLY

Polymeropoulos is discussing intel activities that happened very recently. That's pretty stunning. It's obviously being done with permission.

[stillcool]

13. took me a while to convince myself...

it was real. Even as I read who was being quoted, which committee's knew about it, which agencies were involved. Then I had some itty-bitty flecks of memory, about reading kind-of, sort-of similar events. But, this Julia Ioffe is one great writer, and knows her stuff. Really freaky, and having to link the bad guys through cell-phone data.

[Disaffected]

8. What on earth is the science

behind these weird phenomenon?? Sleeping children moving in unison??

Seems too bizarre to be credible. I don't believe microwave exposure could explain it...

[orwell]

9. There doesn't need to be a declaration of war...

...but the new administration must make it clear that there are real costs to the continuing global election attacks and the systematic undermining of democracy.

I thought the previous administration had it about right. I always favor the carrot and stick approach.

[BannonsLiver]

10. +10000

Right now I think he’s focused on kitchen table issues but I expect after he takes office that Biden will be very aggressive with Russia. Other people are zeroed in on healthcare etc. and I am too. But punishing that fuck Putin and the country itself is Numero uno on my personal priority list.

[Klaralven]

12. The US declared war in 1812, 1846, 1898, 1917 and 1941/2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Declarations_of_war

It is now nearly 80 years since the last declaration, a longer interval than ever before.

We are unlikely to declare war again, especially since various laws dealing with national emergencies would make the President a near dictator.

[coti]

14. Yeah, their attacking our elections and forcing us through 4 years of Trump was plenty as

an act of war. I hope that Biden employs a non-economic, asymmetric response against their cyber-personnel.

[sarisataka]

15. Should we go nuclear or try to keep it conventional

Maybe drop a couple of Bears off the coast of Alaska? Air strike on forces in Syria? That would keep the tradition of fighting in third countries and avoiding attacking the home countries.

[sir pball]

19. Conventional, but across the European theater.

Tom Clancy, back in the old days when he was good, already gamed this out; it was just over oil rather than cybermeddling.

On the bright side, Russia is smaller and broker than the USSR so we PROBABLY wouldn't lose Iceland and the GIUK gap...

[Skraxx]

21. No, Not Even Conventional. I Would Suggest and Escalation in Intelligence, Cyber and Covert Ops

But a declaration would put us on war footing and make it abundantly clear that if you are aiding and abetting Russia then it is TREASON.

[sarisataka]

23. Tit for tat pin pricks are possible

When there is no declared war. Once the declaration is made, military confrontation is assumed and nearly assured.

There is a reason the superpowers always fought through proxies, maintaining the pretense that the US and USSR were not in direct conflict.

[Skraxx]

24. Not Necessarily

There's never been precedent like this before. Putin has actually already de facto started a hot war by physically attacking US citizens on US soil no less. But you may be right. I only know we need to be on war footing and treat it like a war, because Russia is already doing so. I only said I personally would be inclined to consider a declaration, but then again, I'm not in any position to do so and I would trust Biden to do what's right.

[sarisataka]

22. Iceland is less important

To a European war than 30 years ago and Russia probably doesn't have the ability to reach that far.

I would assume Belarus would ally with Russia. Ukraine and Poland would see the main fighting in a new war. The temptation to use "just a few" tactical nukes to break the lines and push into central European countries would be very strong.

[sir pball]

26. It was tongue-in-cheek, Motherland does not have subs these days

At least not anything worth trying to gain North Atlantic operational freedom for.

Again compared to 30 years ago, the West has a much better conventional arms advantage so I wouldn't be surprised if tactical weapons were on the table for a breakout, but on the other hand what would Russia really want to go to that extreme to break our lines for? We don't even need theater-based weapons to respond appropriately, IIRC the latest Tridents can hit inside of 100 feet...

[sarisataka]

28. Very true

Russia isn't even a shadow of the military power of the Soviet Union. They are essentially a regional power with strategic nuclear forces.

[sir pball]

29. Yep yep yep

Which is why I think this premise is silly, and would end VERY badly. If you're the proverbial 90-pound weakling getting your face beat in by...oh, who do the kids like these days, Dolph Lundgren*, and you have a shotgun, you're gonna shoot.

*Dolph is Batman personified and you cannot convince me otherwise

[Le Roi de Pot]

27. Ever heard the saying . "Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick"

just quietly go after the financial assets of all Russian Oligarchs held directly or through shady offshore entities

[maxsolomon]

35. He'd better not.

They are adversaries, but we are not AT WAR.

We still depend on them to get to the ISS, for instance.