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valerief
(53,235 posts)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)I'm afraid. I've noticed this same thing since I was an adult, but that's just since the 90's. I guess other people saw it well beforehand.
I honestly think we've entered a new dark age. This doesn't mean that things are going to go back to how they were before (as the medieval dark age was not like the earlier dark age), but that we'll see a kind of stagnation recognizably different from the sort of advances of the last five to six hundred years.
valerief
(53,235 posts)I meant prophetic in hyperbolic observant way.
I have no clue what the future holds. I'll be dead for most of it anyway.
CherokeeDem
(3,735 posts)I miss him....
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)
Aldo Leopold
(687 posts)I thought Al Gore's "The Assault on Reason" was pretty damn good too.
Johonny
(25,767 posts)
ck4829
(37,513 posts)People are 'teaching the controversy' of intelligent design, holding conferences about how Galileo and heliocentrism is wrong, and credit scores are the new phrenology.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I would say "no way", but I have given up being surprised.
ck4829
(37,513 posts)Kindly Refrain
(423 posts)You were correct.
Conservative Catholics say Galileo was wrong, geocentric is right
Chicago - A growing Conservative Roman Catholic movement is continuing to insist that Galileo Galilei was incorrect by his assertion that Earth revolves around the Sun and is not the center of the universe. The battle rages on between geocentrism and heliocentrism.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)....it's Reaganism which has become a belief system rivalling any religion. It's a religion that government is to blame for your misery. A religion that states that your boss would give you a raise if he could afford it but he can't because government is overtaxing him and forcing him to purchase expensive and unnecessary, often silly things to comply with liberal ideas of worker safety (assuming the worker is an idiot) or pollution requirements for things that don't pollute. It's a religion that says our greatest American President was a senile ex B movie actor who ate jelly beans. ("smart pills" as they were called at the time).
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and a must read
Raster
(21,010 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)A great man and a great mind.
Moostache
(11,094 posts)I cannot help by think if he had lived longer that he would have used his gift for communicating complex scientific processes to the non-intiated and made a real differencem
Whovian
(2,866 posts)
BootinUp
(51,035 posts)TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)sought as our "leaders" and the sort we must put into positions of power if we are to avoid suicide at worst and a new Dark Age at best with a fucked up corporate authoritarian state in the middle that will be a painful slip and slide into extinction.
Whovian
(2,866 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)generations, if at all. Americans are so invested in their mythologies that to even question them is an automatic disqualification from power. Can you imagine us electing a pot smoking atheist genius?
Of course almost as unlikely is the idea of a pot smoking atheist genius wanting to be elected to a political office.
David Zephyr
(22,785 posts)
Smickey
(4,624 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:42 AM - Edit history (1)
In addition to Cosmos and others he wrote one of my favorite Sci Fi books. Contact.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)My dear Dad worried about that too.
NYC Liberal
(20,450 posts)because it's happened many times throughout history. History repeats itself and plays out in cycles. What has happened over the last 20-30 years isn't totally new; rather, it's simply a return to the Gilded Age.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)When did he say that, anyways?
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)But there's another reason: science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. As I write, the number one video cassette rental in America is the movie Dumb and Dumber. Beavis and Butthead remains popular (and influential) with young TV viewers. The plain lesson is that study and learning - not just of science, but of anything - are avoidable, even undesirable.
We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements - transportation, communications, and all other indus- tries; agriculture, medicine, education, entertainment, protecting the environment; and even the key democratic institution of voting - profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Published in 1995... astounding. I definitely have to read this.
donqpublic
(155 posts)for a short while I used to refer to myself as a Saganite. I stopped when I realized he would have suggested I re-read the book.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)Lifting a glass to you Carl!
To a great American pioneer.
drm604
(16,230 posts)I have a copy in a bookcase in the room behind me at this moment.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)I bought DHW the day it was put on sale having eagerly awaited it's release. I have been thinking about that book the last two days.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)No shit.
JHB
(38,062 posts)Nope, sky's clear. Just a loose wire.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)25 Recs.
Carl's foreboding was correct. Even DU is overwhelmingly STUPID.
muriel_volestrangler
(105,843 posts)Not everyone on DU recommends every thread they agree with. Not every view of a post on DU is by a person - some are by bots for search engines. Views on DU are not unique visitors - click on a thread again, and it increases the view count.
Did you compare the views and recs to threads started at a similar time? If I look at the first page of GD now, I find this thread (106 threads, 1855 views) has the 5th highest ratio of recs to views - and higher than any other thread with more than 30 recs.
You're far too quick to call an entire group of people "overwhelmingly STUPID" just because they haven't reacted exactly the same as you, without comparing the thread against equivalents. Professor Sagan would not approve, I think.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)One more powerful reason for legalization.
Whovian
(2,866 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 30, 2012, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I was first able to really contemplate the universe as it truly is when I started smoking de 'erb mon. And I am no Carl Sagan.
susanna
(5,231 posts)mick063
(2,424 posts)One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) [Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection]
Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don't practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us -- and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along. [Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection]
In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. [Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address]
The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity. [Carl Sagan]
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism. [Carl Sagan, Contact, pg 244]
You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition. [Sol Hadden in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 285.]
(When asked merely if they accept evolution, 45 percent of Americans say yes. The figure is 70 percent in China.) When the movie Jurassic Park was shown in Israel, it was condemned by some Orthodox rabbis because it accepted evolution and because it taught that dinosaurs lived a hundred million years ago--when, as is plainly stated at every Rosh Hashonhan and every Jewish wedding ceremony, the Universe is less than 6,000 years old. [Carl Sagan, _The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark_, p. 325]
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. [Carl Sagan, 1996 in his article In the Valley of the Shadow Parade Magazine Also, Billions and Billions p. 215]
The politicians and the religious leaders and the weapons scientists have been at it for a long time and they've made a thorough mess of it. I mean, we're in deep trouble. [Carl Sagan, A&E Biography interview]
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy. [Carl Sagan]
In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed? [Carl Sagan, Cosmos, page 257]
Whovian
(2,866 posts)
BlueMTexpat
(15,664 posts)I love! Thank you!
CrispyQ
(40,810 posts)K&R for a fantastic thread on one of the best & most compassionate minds ever!
Carl, you were dearly loved & sadly missed!
VOX
(22,976 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)
rudycantfail
(300 posts)bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)I've given away three or four copies myself, and it was a big reason behind my going back to college a few years back.
Great quote - we're not there by a long shot (and I can't think of a better guy at the helm than Obama), but I still worry a lot about "kids these days" and the direction of the next generation...
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I need to get me that book.
Kablooie
(19,075 posts)
Blue Owl
(58,620 posts)K&R
Octafish
(55,745 posts)
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)It saved me years of wandering in darkness and changed my life for the positive in ways large and small.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
99Forever
(14,524 posts)His brilliance is missed.
libodem
(19,288 posts)OMFG
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)The number of non-religious people in the U.S. continues to increase. I believe the Internet is helping that; people can talk amongst themselves about how the Emperor is butt nekkid.
SaveOurDemocracy
(4,564 posts)
Uncle Joe
(64,577 posts)Thanks for the thread, Whovian. 
Not sure I agree with the prophetic claim as he was merely repeating historical trends of class conflicts.
Windy
(5,944 posts)sorry couldn't resist!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)and posted to facebook. Brilliant quote. Thanks for that!
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)and accurate when you read it with the benefit of hindsight:
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)
calimary
(89,308 posts)He was a very learned man.
colsohlibgal
(5,276 posts)What a brilliant mind, and not just concerning science. Let's hope the budding undumbing of The US people picks up steam.
AllyCat
(18,660 posts)
janx
(24,128 posts)and a brilliant writer.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Neither St. Augustine nor St. Thomas Aquinas considered early-term abortion to be homicide (the latter on the grounds that the embryo doesn't look human). This view was embraced by the Church in the Council of Vienne in 1312, and has never been repudiated. The Catholic Church's first and long-standing collection of canon law (according to the leading historian of the Church's teaching on abortion, John Connery, S.J.) held that abortion was homicide only after the fetus was already "formed"--roughly, the end of the first trimester.
But when sperm cells were examined in the seventeenth century by the first microscopes, they were thought to show a fully formed human being. An old idea of the homunculus was resuscitated--in which within each sperm cell was a fully formed tiny human, within whose testes were innumerable other homunculi, etc., ad infinitum. In part through this misinterpretation of scientific data, in 1869 abortion at any time for any reason became grounds for excommunication. It is surprising to most Catholics and others to discover that the date was not much earlier.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Than those struggling to hold it back. I wouldn't say that it isn't that we can't knowledgeably question our leaders, it's that they can't knowledgeably answer us. When we can't even come to an agreement on what reality is, when the numbers and facts they rely on come from manipulated reports, how can they?
