The MAGA crowd is living in a totally different universe from the rest of world

[Dr. Jack]

I like to lurk on right wing forums just to keep tabs on whatever nonsense the right is bitching about today. I find human behaviour to be fascinating so I can't help but take a peek at what the ultra right wingers are doing and saying.

Their grip on reality is typically quite tenuous but usually they are talking at least in part about the same things as the real world but typically with their own deluded spin on things. But lately I have noticed that it's like they are living in a totally different universe from the rest of us. I'm not sure what the breaking point was exactly, although I suspect it was a combo of the RNC and first debate not providing the major Trump comeback they were expecting. Instead of accepting that Trump's reelection is going down in flames, they have since crafted an entirely different reality. Here are some highlights of you're interested:

First, you need to understand that the polls are 100% wrong. Polls on the election, polls on how people feel about various issues, polls about either of the two candidates, all fake. Not just wrong but made up entirely by evil liberal media forces to make Trump look bad.

Second, 2016 has an almost mythological status where Trump minimally out performing his polls (by less than 1 point overall and not unusual in the slightest) had become Trump came back from impossible odds, made up a double digit deficit in the final few days of 2016, and that literally no one thought he would win.

Third, Americans don't care about coronavirus. Only fringe liberals care and again all to make Trump look bad. The vast, vast majority of Americans couldn't care less about coronavirus.

Forth, the economy is in amazing shape (look at the stock market!) and again most Americans are super happy with the state of the US economy.

Finally, the real issues Americans care about are: Crime in Democratic run cities, "cancel culture", and of course, the greatest threat to America, Hunter Biden's emails. You might have thought the NY Post "bombshell" had fizzled out like a week and a half ago and that no one cares. Wrong! According to Breitbart and The Daily Caller, this is the greatest political scandal in American history. While most mainstream news either never touched the story and even more mainstream conservative outlets have largely moved on since the whole thing seems too difficult to believe and even if true, people don't care. But that's only if you don't visit far right, quasi neo Nazi "news" sites. The claims on those sites about what's on Rudy Giuliani's....I mean Hunter Biden's laptop is become more and more extreme. Massive loans and bribes to Hunter and Joe from pretty much every country and group that the right hates "China, Ukraine, Iran" and of course you can't have a right wing conspiracy theory without vast claims of child pornography and sex slaves.


To summarize here is what the MAGA crowd is currently thinking: all of the polls are fake, coronavirus isn't real, Hunter Biden's emails are the biggest issue to Americans and constitute a scandal so horrifying and vast that the Democratic party is likely going to be wiped out, and Trump is going to win an historic landslide reelection. This includes Trump winning states like California, New York, and Illinois by large margins. Essentially the polls are off nationally by 30-40 points. Trump will likely win with 60ish percent of the vote nationally and Biden will be in prison before the end of the year.


Now I need a stiff drink and a shower. Excuse me for a bit.

[uponit7771]

1. K&R, their information universe is different also

[SheltieLover]

2. Ty, Dr. Jaxk

These people likely need anti-psychotic meds.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. Governance through the sympathetic magic of christofascist ideology. Magical thinking.

[Dr. Jack]

8. The people left are definitely the most fanatical and deluded Trump supporters

Not to compare Trump and his supporters too much to Nazi Germany, since I think those kinds of comparisons are weak and lazy, but these final days of the election do remind me of the closing days of WW2 in Europe. Even when Berlin was surrounded, some Nazi fanatics refused to believe they were going to lose the war and they predicted various miracles that were going to save them. Feels like a similar thing here. Trump is likely heading for a landslide defeat and nothing is going to come along and change that at this point. And yet, the die hard, delusional Trump troops keep fighting. They keep looking for their miracle weapon against the Democratic forces moving deep into their territory and they can't possibly fathom that they Trump isn't indestructible.

They keep fighting, refusing to accept reality, and are causing unnecessary hardship and suffering (covid deaths, threats of violence against democrats, attacking Hunter Biden with baseless smears) because they are so delusional.

[GoneOffShore]

16. Why do you think that the comparisons are weak? Serious question.

Because every account from people who lived through that era draw the parallels very clearly indeed.

"Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures'... must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing - each act is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow.

You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father could never have imagined."

From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1933-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)

[wnylib]

34. Thank you for posting that.

Most people reject Nazi/Trump comparisons as over-the-top because the word Nazi immediately makes them think of death camps.

They do not think about the political and social stages that led up to the creation of the death camps. I would love to see some films about the years between 1918 and 1939 in Germany. I think they would be very informative on how a developed, civilized nation goes so far off the rails of human decency. It's the stages before the death camps that can teach us how it happens, how to recognize it in the making, and how to avoid it.

[moonscape]

21. How does this get fixed? Obviously, there will always be a far-out

crowd, but what has happened here in such huge numbers is terrifying. Does some of it dissipate wtih 45's departure? Will he continue to be their leader and stoke this stuff with a new microphone, or will they drift to another more dangerous one? More dangerous meaning smarter and more effective?

I admire you for being able to listen. When I've tried it was too unsettling and I had to retreat to my safer mental bubble.

[Mariana]

30. "Will he continue to be their leader and stoke this stuff with a new microphone..."

Yes, I think that's exactly what will happen.

[Mariana]

28. They aren't going to accept reality after the election and inauguration, either.

Just like they never accepted Obama. The real die hards still expect something new will come out any day, something that will somehow "undo" Obama's presidency.

[JHB]

32. Nazi comparisons are not "weak and lazy" when it comes to Trump.

Last edited Sun Oct 25, 2020, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

With many Republicans it would be, though even there, less than you think, since they've been relying on "stabbed in the back" grievances since Vietnam.

But with Trump, the only reason the comparison isn't even closer is because he himself is weak and lazy. If he were more methodical, if there was some greater vision he was trying to advance (i.e., something beyond stuffing his pockets and feeding his ego), he'd have done a lot more damage. As it is, he's been kept in power by an assortment of conservative policy zealots who, through the Republican party, have ignored offenses that would have had any other president impeached. Trump has been their big chance to grab all the marbles.

[wnylib]

36. Agree completely with every word of your post.

As it is, there are people in Trump's circle who are organized and intelligent enough to do far more damage. They have had his ear and have promoted many of his policies and actions. They will still be around when Trump is gone. They have a ready made cult made up of Trump followers. May they never find a more sane, charismatic politician to carry their torch for them.

[DBoon]

39. Trump supporters are like Germans who still supported Hitler in 1948

The country was in ruins, occupied by foreign armies, and I would bet that a substantial minority of Germans looked back fondly in Hitler and believed the Nazis were cheated out of their well deserved victory.

[Laelth]

4. You have earned your shower. Thank you.

Beautifully written piece, btw.



-Laelth

[Ohiogal]

5. Much gratitude

For doing all that dirty work! You deserve a stiff drink for sure!

Mind boggling the delusion and ignorance in that crowd. I almost feel sorry for how severely they’ve been duped .... nah, no, not really. They deserve every bit of misery they get

[Dr. Jack]

7. You can tell deep down they are panicked

When the Rudy-Borat story became known there were people on these sites that spent literally 12 straight hours making hundreds of posts about what was really happening in that clip and why they aren't worried about it. Their panic is definitely coming through loud and clear but its mostly coming out in unhealthy ways, like extreme irritability and hostility. Their words say "trump landslide!" but their behaviour says "oh god oh god oh god we are so fucked".

[JDC]

6. They descend from people who bought the Brooklyn Bridge

It's in their DNA.

[zipplewrath]

9. From a republican

Heard it this morning. It was guy who got voted out of office in a primary by the MAGA crowd. He was talking about the flaw of appealing to the whole Q-anon crowd. He said, "You're talking about a bunch of people that think the Lord of the Rings is a documentary".

[nature-lover]

13. LOL

[Delphinus]

10. I need a drink too.

And a pain reliever from banging my head up against the wall.

[bucolic_frolic]

11. That's why the fallout could be dangerous

I doubt they accept reality or go quietly. They just double down on the conspiracy. Paranoia is a dangerous tool.

[Kaleva]

26. They firmly believe that the only way Biden will win is by massive fraud

[roamer65]

38. That is true and the harbinger of not-so-civil unrest.

[DBoon]

40. whats scary is how many of them are armed

and believe they have the right to use their firearms to overturn an election

You won't see a civil war but you will see a lot of mass shootings once Trump loses

[Karadeniz]

12. You have more courage than I, but I can handle your summary...keep it up!

[Tribetime]

14. Drumpf wins California, New York, and Illinois by

Large margins....Boy are they in for a bad night Nov 3rd.

[sandensea]

15. You see this same manufactured right-wing delusion in many democracies

The key difference often being, that because in many countries (particularly Latin America) far-right media is the dominant media, their Pizzagates are often echoed by U.S. and European news.

[UCmeNdc]

17. Wow, Trump's 'Merica!

[Mr.Bill]

18. I also prowl wingnut websites

and I can confirm everything you said, and then some.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. That's a great description & summary. I'm seeing exactly that among the tRumpanzee FReaks. . . nt

[OMGWTF]

20. It's impossible to have a conversation

when you can’t even agree on what reality is.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

22. So, let them wallow in their delusions

Makes them less effective. They are a cult, creayed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Soon they will have no power. Just let them circle the drain.

[mwb970]

23. This is *exactly* what I hear from trump cultists in the Disqus comment sections.

[oldsoftie]

24. This is a very accurate assessment. This describes many people I know well.

I belong to a civic group and most everyone there is a trumper. They are also very well educated, professionals, business owners, etc. And most of them think that trump is going to win even bigger than last time (I have to remind them that "last time" was a win by 77k votes). I have explained to them what (IMO) it takes to win; get the voters you had last time, get some who voted AGAINST you last time, get more of the new voters than the other guy. And trump aint doing any of the 3.
Some of my other friends have posted some prediction by some pollster who supposedly predicted trumps '16 win that shows him winning NY. I ask them if they REALLY believe that. They never answer

[Kaleva]

25. I often lurk over at Freeperville and I agree with everything you say

[Turbineguy]

27. It's a dirty job.....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Life on Planet FReak

It’s not just being a voter for Trump that will get you targeted. Conservatives are a target in general, so even for a basic House or state race, GOP voters are getting more and more “shy” for their own protection.
3 posted on 10/25/2020, by CatOwner

The social trends that made polls wrong in 2016 are much stronger in 2020.
Will the media reflect on their bias and errors? No, because they are only doing what their deep-state controllers want.
5 posted on 10/25/2020, by PGR88

All pollsters will have to make massive changes or risk losing future business.
You assume mainstream media (and the polls they publish) care about their sales, circulation or viewership. They do not. Their position is assured, and they serve the deep-state and their corporate masters. Did Pravda care about public opinion in the Soviet Union? Does China Central TV care about opinion of the average Chinese?
10 posted on 10/25/2020, by PGR88

“But something throws them off when the R is [winning]. There is something they are missing when that happens.”
Because it’s SOP for pollsters to oversample Democrat voters, which says something about them.
And who knows if that anonymous pollster calling you at home isn’t compiling an Antifa hit list?
20 posted on 10/25/2020, by elcid1970 ("Pres. Trump doesn't wear glasses. That's because he's got 2020." )

[CanonRay]

31. Thank you for your service to DUNation

Unfortunately, we can never reveal your heroism.

[Yavin4]

33. Conservative and social media, talk radio, and other right wing sources create an alternate reality.

Whatever you believe, you can find an "authority" to confirm your beliefs. All other contradictory information sources are just some sort of Liberal conspiracy that can be dismissed.

The 2016 election provides support for this way of thinking. The mainstream media and pollsters were wrong. In reality, Trump won because turnout was lower in 2016 than in 2012.

[Mr. Ected]

35. Unfortunately, their informationverse is totally over-the-top and leaves no margin for error

And assuming that there isn't some dirty trick in store for the American people come Election Day, when Trump and the GOP get their asses handed to them, they will react, not to the bloodbath, but to the disinformation with which they've been brainwashed. They will be certain that Democrats stole this election from them, and will act out in ways that Democrats would never even contemplate.

The sad thing is, they DID cheat and steal the election in 2016 and sometime within the next two years will be brought to justice for their multiple crimes. Because we now have a bifurcated information network, they will think that WE are the instigators and the fascists. This is by design. This is Russian propaganda having landed in the USA. Our battle is only beginning.

[Trenzalore]

37. I have a friend on facebook that is heavily invested in the Hunter Biden story

They are really pissed it was never picked up.

[BComplex]

41. Biden is going to have to be a magician if he's going to bring this country together if

these people are believing all of this russian/foreign hype. How can you possibly govern a country where 40% of the people are, well, clinically insane?

[octoberlib]

42. Read Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers

by John Dean and Professor Bob Altemeyer. A lot of research has been done on right wing authoritarian followers , a lot of it by Bob Altemeyer. It's fascinating.