Woman in NYC is denied her right to vote despite arriving on time & waiting in line

[Nevilledog]

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Fifty Shades of Whey
@davenewworld_2
·
Nov 2, 2020
Woman in NYC is denied her right to vote despite arriving on time & waiting on line



Fifty Shades of Whey
@davenewworld_2
Are police allowed to wear "thin blue line" propaganda at polling locations?
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[soothsayer]

1. Seems stupid

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. Arriving exactly at closing time was the problem.

She really should have gotten there a bit before. It kind of looks as if the end-of-the-line police were there before she arrived. She's just going to need to go on Tuesday.

It's like the people that show up at a store just as the employees are trying to lock the door. If you've never worked retail you have no idea how frustrating it is.

[dsc]

6. No that isn't how this is supposed to work

it is red letter law that if you are in line when the polls are closing, then you get to vote. This has been litigated endlessly. NY has a very bad system of running elections and needs to clean up its act.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. She wasn't already in line. She got there exactly at closing time.

I'm reminded of my airline days when passengers would try to claim our flights left early because they got there just as the plane was pulling away from the gate.

[Tanuki]

7. No, this is not like "people that show up at a store." Her rights were violated.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/voting-rights/#what-are-my-general-rights-on-election-day

"What are my general rights on Election Day?

Your rights
If the polls close while you’re still in line, stay in line – you have the right to vote.
If you make a mistake on your ballot, ask for a new one.If the machines are down at your polling place, ask for a paper ballot.
If you run into any problems or have questions on Election Day, call the Election Protection Hotline:
English: 1-866-OUR-VOTE / 1-866-687-8683
Spanish: 1-888-VE-Y-VOTA / 1-888-839-8682
Arabic: 1-844-YALLA-US / 1-844-925-5287
For Bengali, Cantonese, Hindi, Urdu, Korean, Mandarin, Tagalog, or Vietnamese: 1-888-274-8683'.. (much more at link)

[brooklynite]

18. "If the polls close WHILE YOU'RE STILL IN LINE..." She wasn't.

[secondwind]

3. That was sooo unnecessary... she was the last in line, and the clock struck four and she went to go

the door and the policeman closed it on her. UNBELIEVABLE

[Miguelito Loveless]

4. To counter cops wearing

"Thin Blue Line" bullshit, I would suggest:


1 "Bad Apple" = 1 Rotten Barrel.

[Bev54]

5. WTF

The country needs a complete overhaul. There is so much bad acting and ridiculous decisions made by so many, how do you get rid of that attitude?

[Trumpocalypse]

8. She didn't get there on time

if she got there at 4PM. The polls closed at 4 meaning as of 4pm they are closed. If she had gotten there at 3:59 then she would have gotten there on time.

[Bev54]

11. That is splitting hairs

She arrived at 4 pm, there is no one behind her, there is such a thing called common sense, that seems to be completely removed from every area of the country and not even instilled in many people. The whole thing was stupid and ridiculous, for what bloody reason? To be a "Big" man. Seriously bring back some civility and commonsense and perhaps the country will not be so angry all the time.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. There was no one behind her because everyone else got there before 4pm.

[brooklynite]

16. Making exceptions to the rules is okay if they're on our side?

What if she arrived at 4:01? or 4:05? Couldn't we bend the rules just a bit?

[Bev54]

22. I am saying use commonsense and civility

I used to work in a bank where the doors closed precisely on time but if someone ran up just as the door was being locked, we would always let them in, you do not know what might have made them get there at the last minute. I guess that is the difference between Americans and Canadians, we are not wound so tight that we are so completely rude and inflexible.

[brooklynite]

24. Elections don't work on commonsense and civility; they work on laws and rules.

There's a rule that says a ballot has to be post-marked on or before Election Day. How about we allow it to be post-marked AFTER election day as long as it arrives before a ballot that WAS post-marked on Election Day?

[Bev54]

27. Seriously??

[brooklynite]

29. Yes. Having a set of agreed upon rules means we don't have to argue about how to apply them

Suppose a Republican poilwatcher demanded that her vote be invalidated. Do you imagine that "civility" would be an acceptable legal argument?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. Exactly.

Too many people are very casual about time limits.

[tonedevil]

9. Apologizing for the fascists...

denying a citizen the right to vote is a sad thing to see here at DU.

[Ms. Toad]

14. If that happens to you - look for a democratic poll observer

they have phone numbers to a bank of lawyers who can address such issues.

As to the "thin blue line" - in most places, yes. What is prohibited is candidate or issue advocacy. "thin blue line" is not on the ballot (to my knowledge).

[brooklynite]

17. The Democratic Poll Observer would say the same thing I did.

You arrived after the polls closed. You can come back on Tuesday.

[Ms. Toad]

20. As a Democratic poll observer - that would not be my response.

If they arrived by 4 PM, they are entitled to vote. Part of my job is it identifiy the last voter who arrived while the poll was opened and ensure they are allowed to vote. If, as is suggested by the video, shutting her out is anticipated, I would have reported the issue immediately. It would have been vetted in the boiler room - and to the board of elections if need be - and it would have been resolved before the tussle at the door.

Anyone standing in line at the close of the polls is entitled to vote.

[brooklynite]

21. She didn't arrive "by 4 PM". She arrived "on the dot at 4 PM" which is when the poll closes.

Anyone on line BEFORE 4 PM is allowed to stay on line and vote. The police office is at the back of the line. Anyone who arrives after he goes to the back of the line is there too late.

I've worked as both an Election Official and a Pollwatcher in NYC. I know the rules. She didn't abide by them.

[Ms. Toad]

25. That's not for you to decide. That is something that gets elevated

to the BOE, if necessary, for a determinination of whether they closed the polls at 4 (when she arrived and was in line) or slightly before.

You are not required to arrive before the poll closes. If you are in line when the poll closes, you are entitled to vote.

While I would not advise anyone to cut it that close you are using an incorrect definition that cut infavor of turning away votes rather than ensuring the right of everyone to vote. Protecting the position taken by the pollworker is not the job of an observer.

[brooklynite]

30. I'm applying the rules as they've been applied in the 40 years I've worked in Politics in NYC

The Police Office doesn't cut off the line whenever he/she feels like it; this happens when the Election Officials tell him/her to.

[Ms. Toad]

34. And they don't just order people to move their electioneering back on their own either.

But I've encountered "no electioneering past this point" flags posted at the street (400' from the polling place entrance) - rather than at 100' - posted there by Election Officials. Those flags were then used to justify ordering police officers to move parties who were handing out voter cards well more than 100' from the polling place door.

That's why there's a process. Even Election officials, and police officers acting on those directions, make mistakes.

Here, if the Election Official ordered the police officer to shut off the line - even if it was shut on-the-dot at 4 PM, the order had to have been given before 4 PM. That means the officer, not the Election Official, was in charge of the precise timing - and may well have shut it off before 4 PM. I'm sure no police officer would ever push the time a bit to prevent a minority woman from voting

Again - that's why there is a process for resolving such issues.

[brooklynite]

15. Why are you blaming the police?

1. The Police don't arbitrarily decide who gets to vote. The police office on duty at the polling center gets sent out ON ORDERS OF THE BOARD OF ELECTION to delineate who was last in line; anyone else who arrives will be turned away.

2. The narrative says that the voter arrived "on the dot" of 4 PM; That would actually be to late because the voting line closes "on the dot of 4 PM. Didn't say "she arrived 10 minutes early" or anything to suggest she was there on time.

3. The police office is wearing a flag bandana. Is that now "propaganda"?

[EndlessWire]

23. I think this deserves to be litigated.

If you are in line exactly at 4 pm, but not 4:01, are you on time? Yes, you are. Works that way everywhere else, why not the polls? I'd sue for violation of my civil rights. Huge suit. Hope she makes it.

[brooklynite]

26. No you are not.

If you are in line at exactly 3:59 pm but not 4:00, you can vote. If you arrive at 4:00 PM you will be turned away.

I can say with assurance that the ACLU and the Democratic Party are not going to litigate this point.

[EndlessWire]

31. You can litigate anything.

"I can say with assurance that the ACLU and the Democratic Party are not going to litigate this point."

Well, fortunately it doesn't depend on what they will do; it depends on what the woman will do.

4 pm includes all of the seconds before 4:01. The cop should have used prudence and waited until it was 4:01 pm. If he did not--and what's he going to say about it, but lie?--then he denied her the civil right to vote.

The law is clear that if you are in line, you get to vote. That is a general rule used to cover those standing there, much like when you stand in a box office line, they sell out, and they close the booth. Only, when you are voting, you are in line properly, and you can still vote.

Or, when you are standing in line to buy groceries, and the cashier says, "Tell the next guy that gets in line that we are now closed after you." And, you know how that goes.

Sorry, but since this action denied a citizen the exercise of her very important civil right to vote, it does deserve to be litigated. It may seem petty to you, but it is an important detail that is apparently unclear. If we need stopwatches, then we need stopwatches.

She should sue. It is not 4:01 until it is 4:01. 4:01 is late; 4:00 is not.

[Ms. Toad]

28. It's not really a matter for litigation.

Here it appears to be a matter of interpretation., which should be elevated to the teams trained to deal with such quesitons.

Did they close the polls slightly before 4 PM, so that when she arrived on the dot at 4 PM they told her the polls were already closed?

If she, in fact, arrived at 4 PM and the police officer had already shut the line off, he did not in fact wait until 4 PM to do so.

[EndlessWire]

32. Of course it is.

"Here it appears to be a matter of interpretation., which should be elevated to the teams trained to deal with such quesitons."

Hello...that would be the Courts...

[Ms. Toad]

35. Certainly not as a first step.

Fnd the Democratic Voter Protection team. They will be set up to litigate, if litigation is appropriatel. In the vast majority of situations like this, it isn't.

[brooklynite]

36. I'm willing to bet there wasn't one...

There wasn’t at my EV center. They get assigned to where they think there will be real voter interference problems.

[Ms. Toad]

37. May well not have been.

This year it has been challenging to find enough for full coverage. Since many pollworkers don't feel safe working the polls during COVID 19, they have been pulling from the same group to fill out the pollworker positions. And - COVID 19 also impacts the willingness of observers to be hanging out inside for 15 hours - especially given that LaRose has indicated that ultimately, we can't turn away people who aren't wearing masks.

I doubt there will be one at my precinct . I'm assigned to cover 3 precincts someplace else in the county.

[brooklynite]

19. Let's be blunt. This wouldn't be a THING (on Twitter or here) if there wasn't a police office here.

Every polling place in NYC has a police officer on duty to make sure things run smoothly, and that there are no violations of the election RULES.

[EndlessWire]

33. Are you kidding? n/t

[brooklynite]

38. Nope. Take a look at the Twitter account...

Almost all of the content is about police behavior. The implication in the tweet (and the inference by some people here) is that the police officer is to blame for her not being able to vote, rather than the polling site rules. The officer isn't being abusive or physical or waving a gun around; he's marking the end of the line.