There's no fucking fix, people.

[GaYellowDawg]

The problem is that we have way too many goddamn fundamentalists, fascist Floridian retirees, and fucking white trash in this shithole country, and they ALL fucking vote.

[Maven]

1. It's time for the USA to split up. nt

[IngridsLittleAngel]

5. No matter the outcome...

I am deeply ashamed and terrified of what this country has become. This shouldn't be this close. How the hell can so many people vote for a goddamned fascist and stochastic terrorist?

[Crunchy Frog]

14. That's been my feeling for awhile.

[Nay]

27. Agree. This place is two countries -- complete opposites of each other. nt

[Vdizzle]

30. This was Putin's goal.

[grantcart]

33. Finally a reasonable workable solution

Wonder why we haven't tried it before.

[Maven]

46. You're right

Much more reasonable and workable to maintain a forced marriage of bitter rivals who don't inhabit the same reality.

[grantcart]

56. Yes and the last time we tried it things went so well.

Talk of succession is nothing more than political self gratification.

It may give you momentary relief but it is results in nothing actually happening.

[Maven]

57. What's clear is that we are already in a cold civil war, albeit a unilateral one.

But maybe if we sing "America the Beautiful" really, really loudly, and produce enough feel-good ads with Bruce Springsteen narrating, we can pretend that the United States will transcend this reality and continue on as a unified country.

[grantcart]

59. Having spent a decade in refugee camps I can assure that nothing that is happening

Is similar in kind or quantity to a war.


Fantasizing about secession, civil war or any extra constitutional exercise is nonsensical self gratification that is very much akin to Q Anon nonsense.

We have to find the right candidates and make the right arguments.

AZ has gone from 2 Republican Senators to 2 Democratic.

We have 5 Democratic Reps to 4 and may go to 6.

There is only one path for us = win elections

[Maven]

61. Acknowledging the breach of our social contract is fantasy?

While we're on the subject of Q Anon, at least two Q Anon believers just got elected to the House of Representatives.

One of us may be engaging in fantasy but I don't think it is I.

David Corn today:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/11/the-elections-troubling-message-even-if-trump-loses-americas-political-civil-war-isnt-over/

[hamsterjill]

35. I agree.

Just tell me where to move and how to do it with COVID killing so many.

This country is over. Beyond repair.

[Skid Rogue]

47. Ya know...

Me and old Abraham Lincoln disagree. We think that a nation divided is weak. Just saying.

[PutGramaOnThePhone]

2. Yup n/t

[RockRaven]

3. Yeah, the problem is there are a lot of shitty, shitty people. Everyone seems to understand this

in daily life, but then many get surprised by it on election day.

[Wednesdays]

4. Less than half the votes are counted

and you want to trash the country?

[CentralMass]

8. It seems reasonable.

[Codeine]

9. When in trouble, when in doubt,

run in circles, scream and shout.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

13. It's great if we win, BUT

Do you really feel comfortable living in a country where so many people would vote for an out-and-out fascist?

[zackymilly]

21. Winning is everything. nt

[GaYellowDawg]

22. The fact that Trump even has a chance at this point

is more than reason enough to trash the country. MORE. THAN. ENOUGH.

[Different Drummer]

6. And they all vote GOP. n/t

[jimlup]

7. Hold on... we've got this

Yes, i know. My freaking neighbor decided it was a good idea to put a toilet up for grabs on their front lawn. I'm so ashamed but it is my street.

There is one Trump sign on my street and one other Biden sign. I've got two and one for Gary Peters! Sit tight everyone. This is NOT over, much of the mail in vote is OUT.

[babylonsister]

10. Hahaha! OK! PS

I'm a FL retiree, so watch it.

[greennewdeal350]

11. Floriduh Needs A Bigger Dose of the COVID-19 Virus

Let. them show us "herd immunity"

[Brainfodder]

12. Reminder: Citizens United ruling

Reminder: gerrymandering
Reminder: pandemic

This fool winning with all his malarkey?

APPALLING AF!

Hopeful still that it aint happening!

[KPN]

15. Too early for this shit. Before the last 48 hours, did anyone expect this

to be settled tonight? Few of any. Let’s see where this goes before drawing conclusions about legitimacy.

[D23MIURG23]

16. And whether we win or lose this election we still have to contend with them. n/t

[maryellen99]

17. Have to remember this is what America is...

They want herd immunity
Everything open
No Masks
No Social Distancing

[bamagal62]

18. So disappointed in our country.

I'm not sure wht to think.

[artemisia1]

19. Unfortunately, you have a point. Wave a NAZI flag in Germany today and if you are lucky you

will be arrested in time to save you from a mob of youR fellow Germans who want to tear you apart. Wave a Confederate Flag in much of the United States and you're a "God fearin' patriot!"...

[Hoyt]

20. Kornacki is posting some potentially positive news in NC. But, that doesn't change OP.

[Skid Rogue]

23. Bullshit...

I'm sorry. This is crap.

[Nimble_Idea]

24. You mean, all the votes in Cali and NYC don't spread to the rest of country?

how about the wealth and whatever else they can spare? The system has 48 other states. Maybe try fixing them by investing in them.

[SergeStorms]

36. Where do you think they get their money from?

It's the blue states which provide huge tax dollars to the federal government. The federal government then divides that money up to keep the poor red states afloat. But we still have this archaic electoral college which gives the poor red states a leg up on flush blue states. That's fair, right? How about each state getting federal dollars in proportion to what they contribute? You'd see red states becoming considerably more blue almost immediately.

[Missn-Hitch]

40. Exactly. I like the "divide the country" idea. A civil divorce, without war.

Let's keep this experiment alive. Let 'em have their christian country.

Of course, negotiating a fair deal for land, assets and debt would be difficult with those folks. And 50% of the country will be pissed for having to move but it's for the greater good.

[wnylib]

48. Wouldn't that be a 3 way split?

The Pacific coast, the merger of the interior and the South, and then the merger of New England and Mid Atlantic minus PA.

Western and Eastern democracies with a fascist state in between.

[Missn-Hitch]

49. Eh. I am open to it but I say keep it simple. 50/50.

New treaties, trade, mutually assured destruction ... so many things to consider.

But it can be done.

[wnylib]

50. I'm just basing my description on the

geographical politics and population levels in various regions.

I can't see Californians moving to the cold Northeast - or room for them there. CA has its own huge economy, too. Northeasterners would not fit in CA, but might find space in the vast wooded areas of WA and OR, but would those
states give up their forests for habitation by an influx of new people?

A 2 way split just is not practical or possible. The idea of mutually assured destruction works only if all sides are equally armed. The fascist south and middle are aggressive people who love dominance. They are not likely to make peace without a way to enforce it.

I'd be all for the idea if it could be done. I just don't see how it could be.

Maybe we should consider making the fake alarms from the right about antifa into a reality to defend human rights and democracy. I do NOT mean the physical violence or destruction that the right attributes to antifa, but instead a unified, activist movement that calls out fascism for what it is, openly, publicly, and often. Make the label stick and make people see them for what they are. Create a strong counter ideology and way of life in opposition to what the fascists are promoting. A culture war for the soul of the nation. Change the national culture and self image, not just in politics, but in everyday life. Make health care concerns, social justice, public services, corporate responsibility, and the environment popular cultural expressions in music, clothing, art, films, TV, and even in games.

In the 1960's, the counterculture movement had its own music, clothing, and causes in opposing war, promoting equal rights for minorities and women, and promoting a clean environment. The old styles that went with that movement are a thing of the past and cannot be revived for today. We need newer expressions suitable to our times and new directions, but with the same sense of identity and belonging in a movement.

The antifa name would not work because of its associations with violence, although they are false. We need to reclaim the name of patriot, or some other term with the same meaning. And the flag, dammit! Fascists do not own the American flag. A counterfascist movement. A reclaim America movement.

[Missn-Hitch]

52. It can be done. What you describe ...

has been happening over the last four years from the opposition. It is NOT working.

As I said, 50% of the country is going to be pissed at having to move but that's how it goes when we decide to practice Nazi-craft. Or people can stay where they are and roll with it. It's each person's choice.

It's a non-violent solution. Methinks, the Nazi cult will prefer violence BUT they may go for a peaceful "divorce".

If we can convince them of a gay, agnostic, atheist, liberal, muslim, Black-free country I think it would work.

Even if Biden wins, Tom Cotton awaits. He is the intelligent, competent tRump. Then what?

Think East/West or North/South border. I am open to your suggestion though. Everything is negotiable.

I will not be a Nazi and prefer not to have them as neighbors.

[wnylib]

54. There is a contradiction in your description

of the kind of country you want. How do you have a country that is both Muslim and atheist? But you can have a country that guarantees the rights of atheism, Islam, and other religions. That's what the US is supposed to be. Not a country where the largest number of a religious faith is able to dominate the rest in the name of "religious freedom" for themselves only, but where a secular government remains apart from religion.

But, apart from that, I still do not believe that it will work. People will not willingly relocate. They just won't. Fascists are not "live and let live" types of people. They would not agree to a peaceful split. Separate armies, navies, air force, economic bases and markets, media services, etc. It is not just as simple as people relocating.

East and West Germany required outside backing for each side and still, each tried to overtake the other. Same in Vietnam, and Israel and Palestine. Separate Americas would mean perpetual warfare.

But if you believe in what the US can be, should be, and has claimed to be, then it is worth fighting for peaceful change from within.

[Missn-Hitch]

55. It is not a contradiction.

Let's put it this way just for fun.

Just for fun - imagine dividing the country 50/50. One half will be run by a transitional group. Let's say Obama, Hillary and Bernie - just to make sure we push every Nazi out of our half. They can pick their own transitional group or have the tRump family declared rulers, whatever they want.

Our country will be like it's supposed to be - freedom of (and from) religion. etc. It will all be laid out in our NEW, IMPROVED and MODERN Constitution. It will look very similar to our current Constitution with updates.

Their country will be what they want it to be.

I did not say it would be easy. If people don't want to move they won't have to. They just have to accept the government of where they live.

I don't think your analogy of East/West Germany is applicable. I see it more like Canada/US. Hell, we can merge with Canada if they would have us.

I appreciate your optimism but what do you say about a more competent and intelligent tRump in 2024?

I do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I will keep looking for it, I will continue pursue happiness.

I am a reasonable man. I am middle aged and will enjoy the second of my life. I've enjoyed the last quarter of my life because I fled a red state to a blue state during Bush II. Don't forget, they hate us more than we hate them.

Hey friend, enjoying the discussion. Consider it a thought experiment. Have a good day!

[CousinIT]

25. defunding and decimation of our public schools, citizens united, gutting of VRA, voter suppression..

....lots of things to blame.

Our public school system is shit - it's been being defunded for 50 years at least. We have a lot of frankly ignorant, selfish, idiot voters. Mostly RWers.

[Captain Zero]

32. Defunding public schools started with charters

Right after desegregation spread to the north.

[Dukkha]

26. The core problem with America

is that it's full of Americans. It will NEVER be "my" country. Not ever again.

[SergeStorms]

37. I'm beginning to think...

my days as an 'Amerikkkan' are numbered as well. The problem is trying to find another country that will accept a retired ex-Amerikkkan.

[Pepsidog]

28. TRUE!

[seta1950]

29. The problem is the electoral votes

It small states the power to dictate how we should live our lives enough already😤

[yaesu]

31. and in shithole countries it takes weeks to count the vote nt

[BainsBane]

34. It's not over yet

Biden will still pull it out.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. I speak on behalf of most of the rest of the world

If you old Covid infested farts voted for Trump, don't think for a second that your ugly, self absorbebed racist arses are welcome anywhere else in the world once the pandemic is over. You're no more welcome than your ISIS comrades.

[LovingA2andMI]

39. It's MIGHT Be Time To Get Real.....

There are A LOT of shitty, racist, pathetic people in the "United" States of America.

1). I am F***ing tired about "Were Going To Win Texas this time". -- NO WE WILL NOT TODAY, TOMORROW or ANYTIME IN THE NEXT 40 Years.

2). But....But....Jamie Harrison - who got creamed by Lindsey M.F. Graham. Those monies SHOULD HAVE WENT TO DOUG JONES, period!

3). We Gone Win Florida! NO, we are NOT. This is GOP Country for the next 20 years. Stop wasting time there, period.

4). We have issues in Ohio. We have had issues in Ohio for the past three elections. Ohio is a PROBLEM. It is time to call it what is IS.

5). Wisconsin, Pennsylvania & Michigan - Flippy Floppy. These states are LOSING population and these folks have moved SOUTH and when they do, the legacy SOUTH still rises. We have ISSUES in all THREE States.

Plan B: It's time for this family, to become Expats. America is a LOST NATION.

[AdamGG]

41. When polls are dead on accurate in some states and off in others

using the same methodology, it's reasonable to consider that there IS a fix.

It's been repeatedly shown that voting machines are easily hacked and if they were, it would be in some states, but not in others, and the variance from the polling would be the only evidence.

Not to mention that there's no question that the post office was being massively manipulated to fuck with mail in ballots. They wouldn't have gone to the trouble of removing electronic sorting machines without surgically targeting the districts that they would impact. Again, the only evidence afterward would be that the polling differed from the results.

It's been two elections now where Trump exclaimed beforehand that he wouldn't accept the results if he lost. That could very well be a calculated tactic that prompts the other side to say that of course they would accept the results while they are having the election stolen from them. It's kind of con man 101.

[58Sunliner]

43. Agreed.

"It's been two elections now where Trump exclaimed beforehand that he wouldn't accept the results if he lost. That could very well be a calculated tactic that prompts the other side to say that of course they would accept the results while they are having the election stolen from them. It's kind of con man 101."

[58Sunliner]

42. Don't agree. We have a history of this BS.

Why do you think tonight is any different? There have already been hacks, and it is documented that the votes can be changed and who would know. The BS regarding voting, slow downs, etcc.. is a fix.

[Orrex]

44. 2000, 2004, and 2016 went for the Repub candidate in highly dubious circumstances

Either stolen outright by the SCOTUS, by a "quirk" of the electoral college, and or by drastically defying all projections and exit polls. And, in nearly all cases, where significant anomalies occurred, they overwhelmingly benefited the Republican candidate.

If fuckface steals 2020, then that'll be four of the past six elections that have "mysteriously" wound up in Repubs' favor.

[Skid Rogue]

45. You've got to be kidding brother.....

[Blue_Tires]

51. Ditching the electoral college would be a start

[Celerity]

53. nazi olds at the Viilages

Trump Shared a Video of a Supporter Yelling “White Power”

https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/06/trump-video-white-power-villages/

[ecstatic]

58. Not buying it. You think that many people want to be stuck in pandemic mode

for the next year or 2 with bozo the clown in the White House?

[GaYellowDawg]

60. Yes, I do.

I actually think that there are that many stupid, corrupt, idiot fundamentalists and Fox News viewers who think that the pandemic will never touch them.