The Lincoln Project Didn't Move 10 Votes in This Election

[Autumn]

Never Trump conservatives are about as relevant to the actual election results this year as are the Whigs or the Free Soil Party.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34576561/never-trump-republicans-lincoln-project-2020/?fbclid=IwAR0mKYpN8gn03XrfpAS6ZRokIZ1G_wFSflulaCoy42khlcmPmwvX9s9_WFM

Can we talk about Never Trump for a minute?

Its various iterations—The Lincoln Project, Republicans Against Trump—made some fine commercials and a lot of noise. They raised a lot of money, especially TLP, which is now going to morph into a multi-platform media network that likely will become a permanent (and very conservative) factor in elections going forward. Starting from scratch, TLP raised $60 million. Republicans Against Trump got started late, but they hoovered up $10 million. This is nice work if you can get it.

The problem is that, despite their fat bank accounts and some terrific publicity, these people didn't materially affect the presidential race at all. Their entertaining commercials got great run, but they didn't move 10 votes. They certainly didn't materially affect the Republican side. What data we have at the moment indicates that the president* got more of the Republican vote this time than he did in 2016. He certainly got more votes generally than he did four years ago. Take them all in all, and Never Trump is about as relevant to the actual election results this year as are the Whigs or the Free Soil Party. The problem for all the rest of us is that they should be.

Never Trump should have been a haven for Republicans and conservatives revolted by the notion that their party and the government had been appropriated by a vulgar talking yam. As should be obvious, there just aren't that many people like that. Most of the Never Trump movement is on salary to the Never Trump movement. Everybody else is completely With The Program. The president* has utterly subsumed American conservatism in general and the Republican Party in particular and, win or lose, he's not going to go anywhere.

If Joe Biden becomes president, this president* will be the center of resistance to him. He's already established among his followers that any result that produces President Biden is prima facie illegitimate. That feeling will be set in concrete among the president*'s followers by the turn of the New Year. There is no viable counterweight to him within or without the party. Unless he ends up destitute and/or in jail—and neither one is necessarily a longshot—he's going to continue to barge into Republican politics and scatter everything like monkey poo. A well-financed, clever opposition should be viable within the Republican infrastructure and should flourish there, if the Never Trump propaganda is to be believed. Taking the party back should be a saleable pitch.

One more paragraph at the link, a very good read.

[samnsara]

1. thay made me feel good thats for sure

[backscatter712]

98. And that very well may have pumped up our own turnout.

It's not just peeling away on-the-fence Republicans (I think they did get a few, though the ones they got don't call themselves Republicans anymore, so that may disguise the numbers).

It's also getting Democrats and all our people crawling over broken glass to get those ballots in. And I think their ads were pretty effective at that - riling us up, ridiculing Trump, giving us hope - that's the game-maker there.

[Bucky]

99. Being Republicans, they never got beyond personality attacks

So they were a colossal waste of money and air time. I don't want the comfort of hearing what a shitty person Trump is. I can see that for myself. People who are supporting Trump know this too and they are not moved by the hypocrisy. That money could've gone to helping Jaime Harrison run out Lindsay Graham (this race was potentially winnable) or to getting rid of Susan Collins.

TLP are con artists, and they're mostly grifting from Democratic pockets.

[Cary]

116. If I didn't know better I'd say you sound jealous.

They delivered a quality message.

[tblue37]

123. Gideon and Harrison were not short of funds at all.

[Pisces]

2. I don't think we know that

[PatSeg]

35. Me either

I think they were an important part of this election cycle. They helped to reinforce the message and did it aggressively, often with humor.

It is still too early to know how they affected the outcome.

[tavernier]

46. Agree

[badhair77]

3. They went low so we could go high.

[misanthrope]

17. This

and as tight as this race is, the few votes they might have moved could prove all the difference.

[Gothmog]

94. The Lincoln Broject had some very effective ads

[Bucky]

101. Except for the "effective" part. The Republican vote for Trump went up by 3% over 2016.

They were no help at all. By making it personal instead of policy based or based on attacks on Trump's policy & administration failures, they did no damage at all.

[Gothmog]

107. The facts indicate that you are wrong

Link to tweet

[Catcar]

4. They did great work, raised money, motivated many to vote & thankfully were on our side!

[still_one]

9. Yes they did, and the OP trying to say they had no impact on the votes is ridiculous. There is no

way to determine that

[Autumn]

15. I didn't write the article, I posted it. For discussion. That's what one does on a message board.

[Voltaire2]

139. wait, you posted an article you didn't write?

Is that even allowed?

[Bucky]

104. They didn't change any votes at all.

Trump increased his share of the Republican vote over 2016. Dollars donated to them were wasted.

[still_one]

5. Nonsense. and I guess Cindy McCain isn't helping us in Arizona either.......

[CatMor]

6. I'm happy they were on our side for this election.....

The signs in NYC with Ivanka and Jared were priceless.

[progressoid]

137. NYC was already ours.

The Jethros and Bubbas and Karens who came out in droves to vote for Trump don't give a shit about anything in Times Square.

[BlueLucy]

7. Arizona and Georgia are close.

It looks like they did help.

[spanone]

8. The fact that some were former rabid republicans I have to believe they had an effect.I SALUTE THEM.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

10. This is what I was hearing months ago.

That their ads were very popular...with Democrats.

Also seens to predict what many of us feared, that they will now take the money donated to them almost entirely by Dems to fight against Dem-backed policies.

Don't know for sure if any of it's true, but it sounds plausible.

How their ads could possibly not move votes is hard to believe, but so is the fact that so many Americans ever supported a sleazy egomaniacal grifter like Trump in the first place.

This is a tragedy, even if Biden wins.

[JHB]

20. "Plausable? Here's a sample...

...via driftglass

Instead this is today's considered opinions from your new Never Trump allies, Charlie Sykes and Bill Kristol, over at The Bulwark podcast.

Here is a rough transcript.

Charlie Sykes: In a way [a Republican-controlled Senate] is a favor for Joe Biden...because it means that we're not going to have some massive socialist health care plan, right? We're not going to be having court packing. They're not going to be adding states. Um, the Left is not going to be empowered to overreach. Of course this is one of the concerns that they would come in there and that Joe Biden would have tremendous pressure on himself to move left with all kinds of...y'know...this incredible waiting list of left-wing, progressive, "woke" pieces of legislation. He won't have that, so he's going to have to put together bipartisan coalitions which might not be the worst thing for Joe Biden.

Bill Kristol agrees and thinks that "...assuming that we have a President Biden and he really does want to pass legislation" Republican control of the Senate could lead to "positive repercussions".

Like tax reform!

They cannot stop being who they are, which is why your new Never Trump allies very much need everyone to pretend that all events prior to 2016 are off-limits and unknowable.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

21. Yep. I don't know why, but I was being wishy washy.

Probably can find previous posts of mine predicting this & warning against expecting they'd be allies of any but the most conservative Dems.

[Autumn]

26. That's it right there. Tax reform, cuts and fiscal responsibility without it being hung on

them. It will all be on Biden. In other words no doing what should be done. No adding seats to the court, no statehood, no healthcare and small useless steps on climate change. With the hope that their party can remove that albatross Donald Trump from their necks and come up with a milder less crass version of him in 2024. The last paragraph

But, outside of glossy magazines and network green rooms, Never Trump has no constituency, and it certainly isn't going to build one based on Tuesday's results. Behind this president*, the Republicans held their Senate majority and increased their share of the House. As for the president* himself, if he loses, it will be by a sufficiently narrow margin to leave his outsized influence intact. There's not enough snark in the world to prevent that.

[melman]

72. "need everyone to pretend that all events prior to 2016 are off-limits and unknowable."

Exactly this. For example...



This motherfucker here worked for George W. Bush!

Link to tweet

[GusBob]

11. Bullshit

Trump got more rural votes and lost votes in the suburbs

[JonLP24]

126. You can blame Trump's behavior for that

People that live in the suburbs are not Trump like nationalists.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

12. How do we know that ?

[Honest_Abe]

41. I agree.

Thais MIGHT be true, but it has all the earmarks of the left-wing equivalent of a conspiracy theory. A lot of speculation and supposition being put forth as fact without any tangible evidence.

[captain queeg]

13. Well, I sure appreciated them!

[murdock744]

14. I adore the Lincoln Project

And I for One would absolutely welcome them into the Democratic party with open arms. They have earned a home here.

[Autumn]

31. Will you still think they belong with the Dems when they start running ads against things that

Biden tries to do? Like healthcare, adding seats to the court, badly needed infrastructure and so many other things that are needed?
Republicans are always against those things. What Republicans like, even your normal ones like the LP are for are balancing the budget,( don't fuck with their tax cuts though) making cuts to entitlement programs that help people that are needed so badly during those pandemic. And well you know the rest, a leopard can't change its spots.

[Tommymac]

39. No different from those of us on The Left trying to pull the Party to Us.

I welcome the diversity of discussion in Our Party.

May we never become the Monolith that the Rethuglican Party has become.

Maybe both extremes can move the Party to where the Majority of Americans live.

I welcome TLP to The Big Tent with open arms. I'll disagree with their platform vehemently but I will defend to the Death their Right to express Their view (as long as both extremes stay decent, moral, and non violent) and will work with them to try and "form a more perfect Union".

Shoulder to Shoulder in Solidarity. We ARE The United States of America

[sheshe2]

16. How could anyone possibly know that?

Ten? Where did Esquire pull that exact number from. I have a guess.

[OneBro]

18. They might say the same thing about Charles Pierce.

I thought their ads were great because they used the hard-hitting approach we've all thought Democrats should have been taking decades ago. At the end of the day, though, we have to fight our own fights.

[Earthshine2]

19. An attempt to prove a negative.

Their entertaining commercials got great run, but they didn't move 10 votes.

On what basis is this statement made? Where's the data to back this up?

How much movement does any political ad create?

I believe that TLP and others contributed to the general climate of political memes from which some people make their decisions.

The battle is mostly not about Dems vs. Repubs. That's already baked in. It's largely about which way the Independents break.

[andym]

22. it's hard to measure their effect

Their ads were certainly not just for Never Trumpers.

The biggest problem this election is that there are too many folks wedded to conservative propaganda and their PT Barnum, Trump, producing a mini-red wave that canceled out much of our blue wave, which is why the polls are so far off. Fortunately there just aren't quite enough Trumpers, so Biden will win.

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Hi Autumn. I'm not sure how they can be sure how many voters were affected...

Besides, that's not the most important thing to me. What's hugely important is two things:

1. They made the best ads ever. If only ads for Australian elections were half as good as their ones.
2. They proved to me that there are people who do put their country above petty partisanship. I'm not convinced there'd be a version of the Lincoln Project amongst Democrats if in the future some reality tv star who puts themselves above their country won the presidency.

[Autumn]

25. Hi Violet, good to see you! Yes the couple of ads I saw were good and I liked the billboards.

I found the last two paragraphs to be the best explanation of Trumps control of the party. "There is no viable counterweight to him within or without the party."

[pfitz59]

24. They were entertaining, and stuck it to Trump

Enough for me....

[cwydro]

27. I only saw their ads here.

Maybe once on tv.

[gollygee]

28. Maybe their own ten votes. nt

[Kahuna]

29. You don't suppose rioting and looting plus the "Defund the Police" movement

might have scared off suburban voters? It's something to consider. David Axelrod stated a few nights ago that every brick thrown was a vote for trump.

[Autumn]

36. So we shouldn't be outraged that black people are being murdered by cops and continue to give the

police unfettered funding because racists might vote for a racist. Got it. A lot of those bricks were thrown by agitators. But you and Axlerod go on and blame the protesters.

[Kahuna]

64. Do it if it makes you feel better. But do not expect to not affect votes that we need.

[Autumn]

65. I have found only racists are uncomfortable or angry about with the protests

and my opinion is that they can fuck off. They wouldn't vote for a Democrat anyway.

[Arazi]

85. +1 million

[Kahuna]

87. That shows what you know. ITFP, I only mentioned rioting and looting...

Do don't try to change the subject of my post.

[Autumn]

90. I changed nothing, that was the subject of your post.

Kahuna (26,987 posts)

29. You don't suppose rioting and looting plus the "Defund the Police" movement

might have scared off suburban voters? It's something to consider. David Axelrod stated a few nights ago that every brick thrown was a vote for trump.

[Kahuna]

100. Go somewhere with that nonsense. I'm not here to play games.

[Autumn]

112. Games? It was your post, deny it if you wish. It's there is black and white. I stand by what I said

Kahuna (26,987 posts)

29. You don't suppose rioting and looting plus the "Defund the Police" movement

might have scared off suburban voters? It's something to consider. David Axelrod stated a few nights ago that every brick thrown was a vote for trump.

Black people have every right to protest when they are being murdered by an overly funded police force who is militarized and protected and it was proven a lot of agitators were police officers. I stand by what I said. Normal people can well understand why the protests and riots. Racists didn't like it and we wouldn't have gotten their votes anyway. And we didn't get them where they mattered, they kept Mitch and Lindsey and control of the Senate.

[Kahuna]

120. Goodbye!!!

[Autumn]

128. Bye bye.

[Voltaire2]

140. Where is the like button for this post?

[Autumn]

141. Sadly we don't have one. I have seen several posts on DU I would like to push that button on today.

[leftstreet]

146. +1

As an aside, I think the whole point of the lincoln project was to start rebranding (for 2022), gain cash, emphasize some nostalgic return to "decent Republicans," and draw out down-votes for GOPers. It worked.

[Autumn]

147. I agree with you on that. Their problem is there are no decent Republicans to return to.

Then will either have to create a new party or change ours. I'm dead set against the latter idea.

[OnDoutside]

30. Charlie is still pushing the rage machine, but who did he change ? As against that, TLP spoke

about what they worked on, last night

?t=4054

[Autumn]

33. Your question should be what will the LP change when they run their ads against Biden's attempts

at policy?

[OnDoutside]

37. Firstly, I have provided what they said they worked on, where's Charlie's evidence ? Secondly, what

policy ? Thirdly, any progressive policy is DEAD in the water with the Senate in Republican hands, so it's a moot point. And fourthly, their primary aim is to attack the GOP/Trumpism.

[Autumn]

38. Why don't you read the article and you can ask the author your questions. I'm sure there

is contact information there. Your last question I believe was answered in the article.

[OnDoutside]

44. I did and it's as i said.

[brooklynite]

32. Do you think we shouldn't have tried?

We could make effectively the same argument about Bloomberg and DSCC.

[Autumn]

34. I didn't write the article. You can always read it to see the argument the author makes. nt

[OnDoutside]

42. I did read it, and he has no evidence apart from wanting to give them a kicking.

[Autumn]

47. Then you obviously disagree with the author. Myself I like kicking Republicans, even so called

"decent" Republicans. It's been my experience none of them are decent.

[OnDoutside]

55. I don't care whether they're "decent" or not, they're hitting the GOP, and that's a good thing, or

do you prefer "purity politics". The US fought on the same side as Stalin's Russia against a common enemy, that's all this is.

[Autumn]

61. Short sighted. They are hitting the GOP now, when Biden is sworn in they will be hitting him.

As the scorpion told the frog. "It is my nature". You can call it purity if you wish. I just know I'm not stupid enough to give Republicans a free ride.

[OnDoutside]

66. And it's that type of uncompromising attitude that cost the Hillary in 2016. If/When they do turn on

Democrats at some point in the future, then no one is tied into them ! It's not like anyone is signing a contract. If one was to be uncharitable, one could accuse the far left of being the other end of what you say about TLP, and I know there'd be many here who would share similar sentiments, but everyone needs to work together to achieve the aims of beating the GOP.

[Autumn]

68. No matter what, this is Donald Trumps America. That alone will be hard enough for Biden to surmount

in order to beat the GOP and do the things that must be done. I for one will not welcome Republicans assholes into the party to weaken him from inside . YMOV so do what you will

[OnDoutside]

78. AFAIK only one from the TLP (Kurt Bardella) has registered as a Democrat. Most have left the GOP

and have become "stateless", knowing that they are dead to most within the GOP. Actually on that youtube link I gave earlier, Tara Setmayer announced at the start of the vid that she now officially left the Republican Party as a result of the vote Trump got. She had hoped that there would be a sizable repudiation of Trumpism but admits that isn't going to happen. Let me put it this way, if there were harder far left than say, Bernie, who produced really excellent anti-GOP ads, I would welcome it. I wouldn't agree with their politics, but at least they're fighting a common enemy, and that's a good thing.

[BlueNProud]

40. Baloney.

[still_one]

181. +++

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

43. SAYS WHO. Were never intended for the true cultists - only

the non believers, to light a fire under them and get them moving on election day.

Since a LOT more voted Dem this time, whose to say the ads didnt play a role in getting people to vote who might not otherwise. People of all types- never -t repubs, independents, apolitical people who leaned left or right - increased participation this time and apparently more voted for the D vs the R..

[AmericanCanuck]

45. Sour grapes from some whose power to extort Biden was diminished

by the Lincoln Project.

No one knows how many republicans voted for Biden but there is a clue.

The disparity between votes for republican senators and Donald Trump is proof that thousands of republicans voted for Biden but voted for republican senators.

[Autumn]

48. Proof? Is there? I have known people who vote down ticket and leave the top blank.

That's a possibility.

[AmericanCanuck]

50. We know that happened in 2016 after Hillary was maligned by some

as corrupt ... we know who brought up the Goldman Sachs speeches over and over. We know who called her unfit for office. We know who called her unlikable. We know the drumbeat of "corporatist Democrat."

It is all on those people. The 235,000+ deaths and all. Done only to give someone a second shot in 2020.

[Autumn]

54. You know who started smearing Hillary as corrupt LONG before 2016? It sure as fuck wasn't Bernie

it was the Republicans. Those 235,000+ deaths and all? That's ALL on Donald Trump and the Republicans. The ones who sat on their asses and continued to vote for shit like McConnell, Graham, and Collins and didn't complain about what those fuckers were doing. You didn't see them complaining during the assault of women's rights, human rights and kids being torn from their families. When 2 corrupts pieces of shit were put on the SC where were your Biden Republicans? Your Republicans who you claim voted for Biden didn't complain about what the leadership was doing, they loved that shit. They just didn't love Trump. Fuck Republicans. Fuck them all to hell.

[AmericanCanuck]

67. I didn't mention Bernie is my post.

But it is good that it was the first name that came to your mind and had to defend it.

PS: Republicans did malign her but they never brought up Goldman Sachs speeches or the Clinton foundation until later in 2016 when she was the nominee.

[aidbo]

105. Yeah but everyone knew who you meant.

[AmericanCanuck]

114. Everyone knew what I meant?

Must be very common knowledge and obvious then.

[aidbo]

121. Yep it's common knowledge that people on this site hate Bernie.

[Budi]

109. And BS jumped right on that train...His mantra of "Establishment" was originated by ...

Steve Bannon back in 2013. When Bannon et al decided to replace the Black President once & for all.

'Establishment' wasn't the only label of the Right BS & Cenk's new opposition party used to dived the populace, and soon changed their identy to D. They formed their opposition to the Dem Party way before BS appeared on the scene. As a Democrat.

Establishment was a coded word Steve Bannon originated on his Brietbart/darkweb..waaay back when plans were being made, pre 2015/2016.

[mtnsnake]

111. +infinity

[OnDoutside]

56. Exactly.

[crickets]

52. GMTA - I had the same thought.

The disparity between votes for republican senators and Donald Trump is proof that thousands of republicans voted for Biden but voted for republican senators.

[Autumn]

57. Or they would vote for Trump and left the top blank. Either way, Biden or blank they voted for

Trumps agenda. Because they put the breaks on anything Biden tries with healthcare, climate change and everything else. And you can bet your ass if another SC judge dies they will not allow that seat to be filled by a Democrat. You celebrate them, I will say that are Republicans assholes. Fuck them.

[Skya Rhen]

59. I much prefer TLP who supported Biden over those who are still stuck in the primaries - Biden won.

[Autumn]

63. You should attempt to let the primaries go then. Thank god Biden won. nt

[crickets]

62. If you're talking about never trumpers, I'm not celebrating them.

I agree with you that the Senate results are not what we were hoping for at all. I'm just disagreeing with Pierce that TLP had no effect on the election. In brighter news, both Senate seats in GA are going to a runoff, so there's that to look forward to.

[Autumn]

77. I can not get over that fact that Mitch won his race. After his laughter at the covid response fail

fucking republicans voted for him. That stunned me. I loathe every Republican on the face of this country.

[crickets]

89. As much as I abhor Mitch McConnell and want him gone, his win did not surprise me.

One DUer summed it up as KY voters continuing to vote him in because they are proud of his power and prestige. It's nauseating that they don't recognize that he uses his power to further Repub (and Russian) interests that grind them further into poverty and ignorance. Of all the Senators, Mitch is the one I despise most. He is evil personified.

The Senate race that really broke my heart is Graham's reelection. I truly thought Jaime Harrison had a good chance to win, and would have performed better even if he lost. That one stings a great deal, because Lindsey is a useless jackass well past his sell-by date and Jaime could have done so much good for SC.

[AmericanCanuck]

69. If the republicans left the top blank, it is still a win for us.

[Autumn]

73. Biden has gotten more votes than any president in history at this time. THAT is a mandate.

If he has to govern according to those fucking Republicans in that case a win is not necessarily a win. Fuck Republicans.

[crickets]

51. Well somebody at Esquire has an axe to grind.

After reading this, I was struck by how Charlie Pierce states that TLP didn't move 10 Never Trumper votes, but then doesn't really talk about votes at all. He makes predictions about future events he isn't looking forward to, but phrases his complaints in ways that back up the very point he's railing against. I'm a Pierce fan, and this column leaves me cold.

Here's the thing: if you look at how closely some of the Senate races ran, and then look at how many million more people voted for Biden over trump, how can you say there was no Never Trumper crossover? "No crossover" would not have been my first takeaway thought from looking at the vote totals as they've trickled in.

Now, there's no proof that numerous voters chose Repub Senators but voted for Biden; the numbers may not shake out that way, and who is to say the Biden votes didn't come from Independents? We have tons of new voters, what was their input? "These people didn't materially affect the presidential race at all" is a silly thing to say. TLP definitely had an effect on the temperature of the room at the very least, definitely gave plenty of people food for thought (even if most of their audience needed no convincing), and instigated or steered some conversations that might not otherwise have happened. Their presence alone was a big deal.

I don't know, maybe he's trying to convince Dems not to stay too warm-hearted and cosy with TLP. Fair point. I don't expect Dem positions to be completely at loggerheads with TLP but eventually we will be on opposite sides of various issues. When the time comes, I am not looking forward to it, but I can be realistic about TLP without saying something hyperbolic like, TLP "didn't move 10 votes."

[Hotler]

53. I still don't trust them, they are not our friends. nt

[NurseJackie]

58. Lulz!

[AmericanCanuck]

70. Moi aussi

[bigtree]

60. they got a nice database of Democratic voters

...to plug republican initiatives in the future.

[Autumn]

75. Oh yes they do. And to hear that Republicans have a place and are applauded is a slap in the

face considering what they did to Obama for 8 years and the damage and carnage from last 4 years is disgusting. I will have no part of that.

[NurseJackie]

82. Aw.

[Autumn]

88. Don't cry Honey. I didn't mean to hurt your feels. Nothing I say about Republicans is directed at

any Democrat, and if you like some Republicans and the LP it doesn't bother me, you have every right to like what you like. I consider there to be a world of difference between Republicans and Democrats. I loathe republicans, that will never change. I also will carry a grudge against them. My opinion is they can all fuck off and die. Have a nice 4 years.

[Gothmog]

96. Do you ever tire of being wrong?

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

97. My feelings weren't hurt... honey. The "tears" I shed are not for me.

My feelings weren't hurt... honey.

I just think it's sad when anyone gets so wrapped up over labels rather than actions. I'm still grateful for the assist that they provided.

I loathe republicans, that will never change. I also will carry a grudge against them.

There's just not enough room in my beautiful mind to let them live there rent-free as many choose to do. That's the sad part.

The "tears" I shed are not for me.

[Autumn]

129. Labels and actions? I haven't seen either.

[NurseJackie]

131. Noooo! Really?

[Autumn]

132. Really. I miss a good amount of posts by a lot of people. Ignore is great, I just need to learn

that unignoring some people is a complete waste of time.

[NurseJackie]

135. I see. Fascinating.

[bigtree]

92. that's not how any of this works.

[In It to Win It]

71. I think they moved some votes but its clouded by Trump's turnout

[melman]

74. Truth

k&r as they say.

[Autumn]

76. I have to laugh. Who would have thought picking on Republicans would be such a trigger.

[SaintLouisBlues]

79. When does the LP jock-sniffing end on this Democratic site?

When Biden is declared the winner?

[Autumn]

84. I'm afraid not. Wait till a Puke dies, the whatever the fuck it is is off the charts.

I just play this and laugh.

[melman]

80. I like the ones that say "they make me feel good"

Uh yeah...that's what con men do!

[Autumn]

130. Yeah, what the hell is up with that ? I can only imagine how good the LP will make them feel once

Biden tries to do anything and they turn their ads on him.

[melman]

81. Steve Schmidt on Liz Cheney

Behind her veneer of support for President Trump— she votes with him “something like 97 percent of the time,” she bragged on “Fox & Friends” in July—there’s a far harsher reality: Many of her and her father’s closest friends and ideological allies have become the most virulent Trump critics. The large group, which includes former national security adviser John Bolton, Steve Schmidt, Steve Hayes, Bill Kristol, and Jennifer Rubin, are rooting for Liz to restore their brand of conservatism after Trump.

"I've talked to a lot of people about the conversation we have to have in the Republican Party, about how to cut this albatross off from around our necks if he loses,” Bolton told POLITICO, referring to Trump. “And I think it's going to be very robust across the board."

Schmidt, the former counselor to Dick Cheney and adviser to John McCain who has become a prominent Trump critic, said, “If there’s a resurgence of conservatism as a functioning political philosophy in this country, Liz Cheney is as good a bet as anybody to be a leader in that. Liz Cheney is certainly not going to be a person over the next 20 years who’s fighting to advance nationalism and populism.”

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2020/11/01/liz-cheney-moment-430972


Good times!

[Autumn]

152. Whoa. That's going to be a problem.

[melman]

155. And who can forget this gem?

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

157. The LP will do a lot for that POS Republican candidate in 2024 The woman fits every need

for the GOP. She and her father appear as normal and decent. But their facade hides a lot of evil.

"I've talked to a lot of people about the conversation we have to have in the Republican Party, about how to cut this albatross off from around our necks if he loses,” Bolton told POLITICO, referring to Trump. “And I think it's going to be very robust across the board."

[melman]

158. And the LP defenders will never admit they were wrong

[Autumn]

160. Yes we are so mean not welcoming them to the party with open arms. All I know is fuck

Liz and Dick Cheney and the LP.

[LiberalFighter]

83. I disagree with Charles P. Pierce.

[Gothmog]

91. You are wrong yet again

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

119. I figured as much!

Today is a good day!

[Gothmog]

122. The goal of the Lincoln Project was to move 4% of trump voters to Biden

The Lincoln Project got 8%. That is great

[NurseJackie]

125. But they're REPUBLICANS! Whaaaaa!

Lucy be like: "But they're REPUBLICANS! Whaaaaa!"

The Lincoln Project got 8%. That is great

Yes it is! I welcome their help. And all indications point to a continued effort in order to remove or weaken every one who enabled Trump. That will be great too.

[MerryBlooms]

93. TLP ads were always about appealing to never trumpers and Democratic voters.

Had they truly wanted to target republicans, they would have run ads tearing down the false premise of a great economy, without all the scare tactics. Run ads about how the stock market is not the economy, and talked about the trillions trump pumped into the market, without the doomsday backdrops. TLP would have also run serious ads targeting republicans on GDP vs debt, just facts on the national level, not online. Their ads were always preaching to the choir. The ads were online and not once did I see them run on local network news or during evening national news. I can understand why folks say the ads made them feel good, that was what the ads were designed to do, so the ads were successful in that sense. I never saw them as a vehicle to sway republican voters.

[Ilsa]

102. LP let the rest of us know that not all Rs are crazy,

and that the GOP has become the trump party. It's important to know that not everyone with a different party affiliation wants to tear up our democratic form of govt. LP helped bring together people with different ideas about how the US should work, and that we all love the US.

It doesn't have to be about shifting any votes.

[Budi]

103. Seriously? Second day this bs article has been circulating

Here's my post from yesterday:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214447437#post29

I haven't seen anything that's changed the facts from yesterday.

Pierce has ZERO data to prove this bs lie he's spreading for clicks & cash.

Only thing missing from his post is his charming little red rose. They've been chanting this same theme since ex-Trumpers moved to split themselves from the authoritarian Trump.

What would Pierce & his red-rosies be shouting if the never-trumpers had thrown their support to Biden's primary opponant?
Yup. It'd be all cool then.

🙄

He's full of shit, basically. Prove me wrong. He pulled this outta his ***.
There is NO data that proves his statement.

[Bucky]

106. Okay, so here's a different one

https://www.fastcompany.com/90572058/even-if-biden-wins-his-lincoln-project-electoral-strategy-was-an-epic-miscalculation

The blame doesn’t stop at the Never Trump tacticians who became #Resistance icons over the past year by owning Trump with corny ads, of course; it falls upon the entire Democratic strategy of spurning the left wing of its own party to court Republican voters who were never going to budge.

Observing this strategy throughout the year must have been hilarious for those voters, long before the punchline of election night. Now, whether Biden ekes out the big win or not—at the time of this writing, things are still up in the air—one thing is clear: courting the Republican vote with promises of centrism was a folly, a farce, a fantasy.

Democrats in love with the Lincoln Project charlatans remind me of Trump voters in love with the Big Pumpkin in the White House. Facts won't shake them; lack of results won't shake them. You shouldn't fall in love with people for telling you what you want to hear--this is a classic grifter technique. Don't fall for it. This was George Conway skimming millions of dollars from Democratic voters, nothing else.

Trump's share of the Republican vote went up. Republicans aren't moved by character attacks; hypocrisy doesn't bother them. They're moved by self-interest. But Conway and his colleagues won't attack Republican policies. They're useless allies.

[Budi]

113. Well Berkowitz finally caught up to the Red Rosies.

They've been rage shouting this bs since the 1st TLP ad appeared.
Basically, it's going to be a lot harder for the RedRosies to divide the Center, (which is why Biden will defeat Trump, btw), with a bunch of moderate Repubs joining in to form a strong moderate based govrrnment.

The big fear of the demanding " my way or the highway only, ' Far Right or Far Left...is a strong & growing Center.

Makes sense then, that the far left despises groups like TLP as much as the far Right.

The balance of governing a society is most successful when it comes from the Center.

🙂

[Autumn]

110. I don't have to prove you wrong. Just like you can't prove yourself right. These are opinions.

Right now the LP is an ally, after Biden takes over they won't be.. That's not an opinion, that's a fucking fact, based on years of Republican actions. They like Republican policies, they don't like Trump.

You say they are your allies, I say fuck the Republicans, they are not and will never be mine.

[Budi]

117. Haaaaahaaaa. That's your answer?

I'm not the one writing headlines for clicks & likes & pandering to a particular populace that has been shilling the SAME unprovable mantra since TLP appeared.

He's the big time headline writer, and what he blasts out there is a flat out lie.

[Autumn]

127. You do know that people on a message board, especially a political message board will post

articles for discussion. You may not like what is posted and no one is going to force you to read it. You may consider the article a

flat out lie

. I consider it to be correct. We have a difference of opinion.

[Budi]

145. Awwww. Quite a comeback. He is Lying on a National publication

He's not on a message board.

And he has ZERO proof of his claim.

Defend away!!

[Autumn]

154. How about you take it up with him? There are plenty of venues for you to do that

But I doubt you will. It's easier to bluster where the one you call a liar isn't around to call you out.

[Budi]

156. How about I put you in the ignore heap.

Wha..wha..whad-da-boutisms happen when one cannot defend the indefensible.

Bye...
peace out~

[Gothmog]

108. The premise of this article is wrong

Who is surprised that this premise of the OP is totally wrong??

Link to tweet

[peggysue2]

161. I usually agree with Pierce

But not this time.

The Lincoln Project did more that produce biting ads (many of which got into Trump's head). They had people on the ground working with Democratic teams and others to beat the weeds for votes and convince persuadable Republicans to switch to Biden. Their data team would alert the ad guys where to direct the message, the sort of micro-targeting we heard about in 2016. In a close election, this was important work. They were jumping off the theory that if they could wrangle 4% of Republicans to switch then there was a window for beating Trump. They more than doubled that percentage.

Every vote counts regardless of where it comes from. So, LP along with scads of Democratic operatives and volunteers made this win possible.

Personally, I'm grateful for the support and very glad that these people were on our side. Strange times make for strange bedfellows. And if they follow through, the Lincoln Project is not going anywhere. They'll soon direct their talents on the Georgia run-offs, provide legal teams to work with Democratic teams to fend off Trump's challenges and then push into the 2022 and 2024 cycles. Trump was the first to go, but LP along with Dems want every Trump enabler and apologist eliminated from the public sphere. They've vowed to fight shoulder-to-shoulder with us until that's completed.

There's no doubt that these people are dedicated conservatives. But right now they're on our side. We'd be stupid not to welcome that.

[Cary]

115. I like them

They have talent. I hope they see fit to stay with our coalition. I'd rather share a foxhole with them than many back stabbing alleged "lefties."

[NurseJackie]

118. Preach!

[Hekate]

124. They certainly cheered me & a lot of others up for the duration

[marie999]

133. The Lincoln Project probably didn't get us many Republican votes.

But Biden has received 6 million more votes than Clinton. I have to believe that The Lincoln Project lit a fire under some Democrats that did not vote for Clinton or did not vote at all in 2016.

[Autumn]

136. I don't know about the votes but I do know that the only time I saw their ads were when

they were posted here and I watched a couple and didn't bother again. I think that the lies by Republicans and Trump lit a fire under way more Democrats than the LP I never saw a single one of their ads on TV and I live in a very conservative rural area. I asked 2 Republican neighbors if they had heard of them and both said no. With all those extra votes we should have added to the Senate, they sure as hell didn't help us there. That proves to me that Never Trumpers are still Republicans. They love his policies, just not him.

[marie999]

142. Yes, they are still Republicans and I don't think it will be long for them to attack Biden.

[diva77]

170. TLP sure looks, sounds, feels like a Trojan Horse. Having witnessed similar tactics with rethugs in

the past, everything I've seen so far with TLP fits this theory.

[alarimer]

134. No, they're a bunch of grifters.

Trying to peel off anti-Trump Republicans only meant they voted for Biden, but they split the rest of the ticket. I think that explains some of the House losses and lack of Senate wins, at least in part.

On the Media did a superb takedown of this bunch of grifters.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/lincoln-project-sorry-about-all

[BusyBeingBest]

138. How the hell does he know how many people may have been

influenced by their ads and outreach?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

143. Republican vote for trump went up to 93% from 90 in 2016

[BusyBeingBest]

144. Independents, though?

There's no real way to quantify it.

[Autumn]

163. I heard on tv Independents went for Biden. Rham Emanuel said no president can win without the

Independent voters. That's a big change from the last GE when Independents were not wanted or needed.

[George II]

148. The Lincoln Project are an organization of more than 10 ex-republicans who voted for trump....

....four years ago.

There goes Pierce's premise that they didn't change a single vote.

Plus, that article was written just hours after the last polls closed, and there were still millions of votes being counted (even at this time). I wonder how he could come up with that?

Finally, at least 3 states have already been flipped by relatively small margins, perhaps five by the morning. Just a very small fraction of republican voters affected could have caused those changes.

[Ninsianna]

149. They've done more than the pro Trump "progressives"

[Budi]

159. K & R THIS ⬆️

Thank you

[artemisia1]

150. Their own votes certainly added to more than ten. Also, their message may have a delayed positive

result once the emotion of the election is over. Their work showed some intellectual integrity and I think may move the needle a bit the next time their party considers choosing someone as awful as Trump. In any case, they left the cult and bless them for that. They showed there are still those who will put country before party.

[Gothmog]

151. I want to thank Steve Schmidt and the Lincoln Project for standing up what is right about America

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Greybnk48]

153. Psychologically, they were worth their weight in gold.

Their ads and appearances on MSNBC kept me alive! And we can’t know who influenced who.

[George II]

162. The Lincoln Project did a HUGE job in flipping Georgia for the first time since 1992....

....and they're not stopping yet.

Here's their latest directed at the voters of Georgia. So much for them turning on us after the Presidential Election:

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

180. How nice to pitch in and help.

[George II]

182. Without their help we might not have pulled out Georgia. Or Arizona. Or even Pennsylvania.

[Autumn]

183. Oh I think we would have done just fine.

[Gothmog]

164. Thank you Steve Schmidt

[melman]

165. Steve Schmidt: I ran the Roberts and Alito confirmations.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

166. So you are not happy that this group help defeat trump? That is sad

Link to tweet

[George II]

168. Very sad, Goth. On the other hand that data you included is very interesting....

I'm sure a good chunk of that 4% differential is due to the work of The Lincoln Project.

[Gothmog]

169. I am glad that Joe and Kamala won and I want to thank the Lioncoln Project for their efforts

Link to tweet

[lapucelle]

171. Non-Democrats who worked with us to defeat Trump are preferable

to non-Democrats who worked against us every step of the way.

[Gothmog]

167. We're staying in the fight: to defeat Trumpism we must also defeat David Perdue.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

172. Never Trumpers played a critical role in beating him. The numbers prove it.

Thank you to the Lincoln Project

Link to tweet

It’s too early for a definitive evaluation of what happened, because exit polls are no more reliable than pre-election polls. But both the Lincoln Project and Republican Voters Against Trump (RVAT), the other major Never Trump organization, shared with me preliminary data to show that their work actually played a critical role in Biden’s victory. Their numbers are in line with publicly available exit polls showing that nationally 7 percent of 2016 Trump voters and 8 percent of Republican or Republican-leaning voters backed Biden; currently, Biden is leading in the popular vote by 3.4 percentage points.

The Lincoln Project contends that 85 percent of the counties it targeted in 10 states moved away from Trump — and that doesn’t even include Arizona, where ballots are still being counted and endorsements from Republicans such as Cindy McCain undoubtedly contributed to Biden’s lead. The Lincoln Project concludes that, across the top battleground states, Biden flipped an average of 6.8 percent of voters who cast a Trump ballot in 2016. Nationally, it believes, 5 percent of voters who voted for a Republican congressional candidate voted for Biden.

In the battleground states, Lincoln Project asserts that 7 percent of 2016 Trump voters switched to Biden in Pennsylvania, 6 percent in Michigan, 7 percent in Wisconsin and 6 percent in Georgia. The swings among independent voters, moderate voters and college-educated White voters away from Trump were even bigger in some cases. Given the narrowness of the outcome in these battleground states (Biden’s biggest margin so far is a 2.6-point win in Michigan), those numbers, if accurate, suggest that Republican and Republican-leaning voters helped deliver the election to Biden.

RVAT’s numbers tell a similar story. In Wisconsin counties where RVAT spent the most, it asserts, Trump underperformed Republican House candidates by seven points. In Pennsylvania counties where RVAT spent the most, it asserts, Trump underperformed Republican House candidates by five points. Again, those are decisive margins in such close states.

While RVAT focused only on the presidential contest, the Lincoln Project also tried to defeat Trump enablers in Senate races. Obviously, the Senate campaigns did not go as well — only two Republican incumbents have lost so far. The reasons vary from state to state, but one common theme is that moderate Democrats had trouble winning in red or purple areas when so many progressive activists were talking about defunding the police, socialism, Medicare-for-all, expanding the Supreme Court and banning fracking.

[Gothmog]

173. Again, you are wrong-The Lincoln Project was very successful in the real world

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

174. So you say. I disagree. Thanks Goth for kicking my thread over and over again.

[Gothmog]

175. The real world is a nice place where facts matter

the facts are clear. The Lincoln Project helped elect Joe Biden. Now the Lincoln Project is helping in Georgia. I am glad that the Lincoln Project his helping and is being far more effective compres to persons pushing socialsim and defund the police

[Autumn]

176. Our worlds are vastly different, so are the facts that we accept. I think it's time so say so long

Goth, you are wasting your time trying to convince me of anything. If that's what you are attempting to do, and I'm not sure it is. Bye.

[Gothmog]

177. The real world is a nice place where facts matter

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

178. Yeah for the Lincoln Project

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

179. Thank You Project Lincoln

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

184. Two cheers for the Never Trump conservatives

Link to tweet

The shameful complicity of Republican leaders in President Trump’s torrent of deceit about our election tells us there is little hope for a more reasonable post-Trump GOP. But what about conservatism as a philosophy? Is it equally discredited?

Let’s begin by just saying it: The country owes the Never Trump conservatives a debt.

Yes, many progressives have been uneasy with these unusual allies. They insist that Trump was not some alien imposition on conservatism but rather the product of long-standing trends in Republican politics. Trafficking in racial division and racism, nativism, extremism, conspiracy theories and voter suppression did not start with Trump.

Progressives are entirely right about this. But the Never Trumpers deserve our respect precisely because so many of them stood against these tendencies and, in more cases than not, undertook a deeper critique of their own side......

Of course, I’d like the anti-Trump conservatives to admit the error of their ways and fully join my side of politics. But failing that, I still appreciate what they did. And I hope at least they can now champion a brand of conservatism that is about more than making the rich richer and the powerful more powerful.