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SmartVoter22

(639 posts)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:21 AM Nov 2020

Wisc Recount: Must be pre-paid to start

If Trump actually gets a recount of the Wisconsin election, he will have to pre-pay the entire estimated cost, before it can start.
That is estimated to be $3,000,000.00

It would be the first time Trump has actually paid a bill, in full.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Wisc Recount: Must be pre-paid to start (Original Post) SmartVoter22 Nov 2020 OP
Ha soothsayer Nov 2020 #1
They should first require him to repay all outstanding campaign debt shelshaw Nov 2020 #26
Smart! soothsayer Nov 2020 #27
trump as usual will get others to pay for it duforsure Nov 2020 #2
The link Tetrachloride Nov 2020 #3
Based on what we've learned of Trump's finances WonderGrunion Nov 2020 #4
from the Wisconsin Recount Manual struggle4progress Nov 2020 #5
I did a review and the calculation is not by votes of winner LiberalFighter Nov 2020 #34
Could be. I just went by the recount manual after finding struggle4progress Nov 2020 #37
That is how I thought it was based on that wording but the code says otherwise... LiberalFighter Nov 2020 #38
Thanks struggle4progress Nov 2020 #39
I thought Trump had second thoughts about the WI recount. Mike 03 Nov 2020 #6
There are enough rich RWNJs for whom $3M is a drop in the bucket. George II Nov 2020 #7
They better get that up front and cash the check right away nt doc03 Nov 2020 #8
Hey, he prepaid his taxes, and that worked out swell for him. bluedigger Nov 2020 #9
i thought i had heard that if it's within a 1% margin the first recount is free - on the county? onetexan Nov 2020 #10
Wis. Stat. § 9.01(1)(ag)2 and 3 struggle4progress Nov 2020 #12
Thanks! the con w prolly get one of his rich cronies to front him the cash for the recount, futile onetexan Nov 2020 #15
The free recount is for a much closer race than that, something like .25% of the total votes cast PAMod Nov 2020 #13
And the fee can be refunded GopherGal Nov 2020 #41
Oh, there are Trump whores who will come up with the money. TNNurse Nov 2020 #11
He'll just bill it to the U.S. Treasury FakeNoose Nov 2020 #14
I have a feeling his rich donors won't throw louis-t Nov 2020 #16
He's still charging donors after the election!! jovibennett Nov 2020 #17
He has learned dv421 Nov 2020 #40
You can bet it won't be HIS money. spanone Nov 2020 #18
exactly-- he may come up with the money, but it will undoubtedly be from someone else LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #24
As he boasts that he's not a politician :/ johnnyfins Nov 2020 #30
I hope he bdamomma Nov 2020 #19
Oh, he will try. Count on that. wnylib Nov 2020 #29
I have a fun idea stopwastingmymoney Nov 2020 #20
Hahahaha so true. It will be interesting to see if he goes through with it Vivienne235729 Nov 2020 #21
Then it won't happen lol! MoonRiver Nov 2020 #22
What is the conversion, gab13by13 Nov 2020 #23
232,549,500.00 obamanut2012 Nov 2020 #32
What about staff? I could see him demanding staff selection if he pays Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2020 #25
The tax payers foot the Bill on a recount when the totals are this close. Augiedog Nov 2020 #28
In Wisconsin taxpayers pay when it is .25 percent or less. LiberalFighter Nov 2020 #35
In 2016 it was $3.5 million so expect it to be at least that much. LiberalFighter Nov 2020 #31
He can ask Jill Stein to dip into that remaining $1,000,000 recount money Tarc Nov 2020 #33
In Wisconsin, elections are conducted by cities, villages, and townships for the most part. LiberalFighter Nov 2020 #36
That's what you get ... Straw Man Nov 2020 #42

shelshaw

(533 posts)
26. They should first require him to repay all outstanding campaign debt
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:58 AM
Nov 2020

to every single city that he stiffed over the last couple of years before even considering a recount. Sort of like they do with driver’s licenses if you have an unpaid ticket.

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
2. trump as usual will get others to pay for it
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:29 AM
Nov 2020

Lying he'll use some of it for himself instead, while pleading he needs more, like he's done to big donors. He'll use this to pocket money.

Tetrachloride

(7,835 posts)
3. The link
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:41 AM
Nov 2020
https://ceimn.org/searchable-databases/recount-database/wisconsin

Cost for Candidate-Initiated Recounts:
Paid entirely by initiator

The petitioner shall pay a fee equal to the actual cost of performing the recount in each ward or municipality for which the petition requests a recount, plus the actual cost incurred by the commission to provide services for performing the recount. Wis. Stat. § 9.01(1)(ag)2.

All fees shall be prepaid in cash or another form of payment which is acceptable to the officer to whom they are paid. Wis. Stat. § 9.01(ag)3.

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
5. from the Wisconsin Recount Manual
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:57 AM
Nov 2020

"Only an aggrieved candidate, defined as a candidate for an office whose total votes were within 1% of the winner’s vote total when at least 4,000 votes were cast or within 40 votes of the winner’s total if fewer than 4,000 votes were cast may request a recount of results for an office."
https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/recount

I think Biden's vote total is 1,630,389 and the Orangetan 1,609,879
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-wisconsin.html

1% of 1,630,389 is 16304.

1,609,879 + 16,304 = 1,626,183 < 1,630,389

I don't think Trumpty Dumpty is within 1%


LiberalFighter

(50,895 posts)
34. I did a review and the calculation is not by votes of winner
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:17 AM
Nov 2020
For an election at which more than 4,000 votes are cast for the office that the candidate seeks, a candidate who trails the leading candidate, as defined under par. (ag) 5., by no more than 1 percent of the total votes cast for that office, as determined under par. (ag) 5.


So instead of based on Biden's votes it is total votes cast. Personally, I think it should be the way you described.

Right now that is
JB - 1,630,542
DT- 1,610,007
JJ - 38,414
BC - 5,253
DB - 5,205

Total -- 3,289,421

1% = 32,894

It is actually 2.01% based on winner votes.

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
37. Could be. I just went by the recount manual after finding
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:18 AM
Nov 2020

news story quoting a lawyer who believed Trump ineligible because the margin (as I calculated it above) was above 1%

LiberalFighter

(50,895 posts)
38. That is how I thought it was based on that wording but the code says otherwise...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:31 PM
Nov 2020

unfortunately. I thought you had something there until I investigated further.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
6. I thought Trump had second thoughts about the WI recount.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:19 AM
Nov 2020

Someone posted that yesterday. I guess he changed his mind again.

It's unlikely to change things. A 2016 recount resulted in a change of something like 125 votes.

onetexan

(13,036 posts)
10. i thought i had heard that if it's within a 1% margin the first recount is free - on the county?
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:32 AM
Nov 2020

Let me know if that's not the case in WI.

onetexan

(13,036 posts)
15. Thanks! the con w prolly get one of his rich cronies to front him the cash for the recount, futile
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:40 AM
Nov 2020

as that is.

PAMod

(906 posts)
13. The free recount is for a much closer race than that, something like .25% of the total votes cast
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:37 AM
Nov 2020

A campaign can pay for a recount if the difference is less than 1% of the total.

GopherGal

(2,008 posts)
41. And the fee can be refunded
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:04 PM
Nov 2020

if the candidate that challenges the count comes up ahead (or within 0.25%) in the new count.

So, it's a gamble: Bet $3 million. If you end up ahead or within 0.25%, you get your money back. If you don't, the state gets to keep your money.
Then again, this is a man who managed to lose money in the casino business.

louis-t

(23,292 posts)
16. I have a feeling his rich donors won't throw
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:46 AM
Nov 2020

good money after bad. I don't think his 'attorneys' will work for free either. At some point they will say 'enough'.

jovibennett

(120 posts)
17. He's still charging donors after the election!!
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:52 AM
Nov 2020

Trump Camp Uses Online Gimmick to Fuel Donations Into December
The Trump campaign is now automatically checking a box to create recurring weekly donations from supporters until mid-December.

President Trump’s campaign is raising money for a prolonged political and legal fight long after Nov. 3 and recently began automatically checking a box to withdraw additional weekly contributions from online donors through mid-December — nearly six weeks after Election Day.

Predicting “FRAUD like you’ve never seen,” the language on Mr. Trump’s website opts contributors into making the weekly post-election donations “to ensure we have the resources to protect the results and keep fighting even after Election Day.” Users must proactively click to avoid making multiple contributions.

The unusual post-election revenue stream would help Mr. Trump pay off any bills that his campaign accumulates before Tuesday — a campaign spokesman said no such debts had been incurred — and could help fund a lengthy legal fight if the results are contested.

“This race will be very close, and it is possible that multiple states will require recounts and potential additional spending from our campaign,” said Tim Murtaugh, a spokesman for Mr. Trump’s campaign. “The election process this year is under extraordinary circumstances, and we are also anticipating that Silicon Valley will attempt to interfere with our online fund-raising efforts post-election.”

Democrats said automatically opting contributors into post-election giving was a misleading tactic.

“They’re inventing new deceptive tactics to essentially steal money from people,” said Mike Nellis, a Democratic digital strategist with an expertise in fund-raising. “They’re going completely and totally scorched earth on their own supporters. I’ve never seen anything like this in my life.”

Mr. Murtaugh said that no one would receive a “recurring charge without their knowledge” and that donors could opt out of recurring contributions both before donating and afterward. “Three days before each recurring charge, donors are emailed a reminder that the charge is about to occur,” he said. “There is a one-click link inside this email for donors to cancel if they wish. Our process is extremely transparent.”

“When the recount or litigation process ends,” Mr. Murtaugh added, “the recurring payments will end."

The extra donations are just the latest hyperaggressive tactic employed by the Trump operation as it struggles to keep up financially with Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s campaign. On Friday, the campaign promised supporters that their contributions would be matched “1000%,” after months of ratcheting up the levels of matches that campaign experts said almost surely do not actually exist. (The Trump campaign declined to say if the matches were real; Mr. Murtaugh said only that it was a “common fund-raising approach” used by both parties)

“Today in record-breaking achievements of grift,” Caitlin Mitchell, a top digital strategist for Mr. Biden, wrote mockingly on Twitter of the purported 1,000 percent match. The Biden campaign said it had never offered donation matches.

The Trump email, which had two flashing light emojis in the subject line, was one of 21 that blitzed supporters’ accounts on Friday — nearly one per hour — almost all of which asked for money. For comparison, the Biden campaign sent eight emails on Friday.

In the final stretch of the 2020 race, Mr. Trump is being dramatically outspent on the airwaves, and as of Oct. 14, his campaign treasury had dwindled to $43.6 million, with $1.2 million in debts. Mr. Biden’s campaign reported $162 million cash on hand that day.

Combined with party funds, Mr. Trump had about $224 million, compared with $335 million for Mr. Biden, but party funds cannot be used to pay for many key costs, including campaign personnel and most advertising costs beyond a strict limit. Since then, Mr. Trump’s campaign canceled a net total of about $19 million in reserved television ads, according to data from Advertising Analytics, and the Republican National Committee stepped in to pay for the ads instead, using the limited funds it can spend in coordination with the campaign.

Mr. Trump has taken to addressing the financial disadvantage directly at his rallies. “I could have been the greatest political fund-raiser,” he said Saturday in Pennsylvania, saying he had avoided shaking down wealthy interests for more money.

“We have plenty,” he said. “You can only buy so many commercials.”

It has been a different message to his supporters online, where his campaign has cranked out more frequent and more intense cash solicitations.

The Twitter account @TrumpEmail, which has cataloged all of Mr. Trump’s email solicitations for nearly three years, provided The New York Times with access to its database, which shows Mr. Trump’s climbing number of monthly emails this year — from January (63) to May (159) to July (239) to September (330) and roughly 400 in October

Many messages employ shaming tactics to prod backers into giving. “The President selected YOU to be a part of this exclusive group, so he was really surprised when we told him you STILL hadn’t stepped up,” read one recent email urging people to donate and activate a “2020 Trump Diamond Card.” Gold and platinum cards have also been dangled for donations.

Patrick Ruffini, a Republican pollster who previously worked in digital fund-raising, said the Trump campaign’s digital marketing tactics mirrored Mr. Trump’s personality.

“The president doesn’t have a filter, and there aren’t a lot of restraints on what they’ll say or do from a fund-raising standpoint either,” Mr. Ruffini said. He called the campaign an “optimization machine” designed to maximize revenue above all else.

“The matching inflation is a running joke,” Mr. Ruffini said of the promised phantom matches that have climbed from 500 percent in May to 600 percent in June, 700 percent in July and, occasionally, 900 percent — and now 1,000 percent in October.

Julia Rosen, a Democratic digital fund-raising specialist, compared that tactic to “giving kids candy instead of their Wheaties”: a temporary sugar high followed by a crash. “If you start off offering donors matches, they like that, and it becomes a situation where then they’ll only give if you give them a match,” she said.

“They have optimized themselves into absurdity and parody,” she added of the Trump campaign.

Privately, some Republicans wonder if Mr. Trump’s campaign deployed such tactics far too early, exhausting a supporter list that had been considered one of its strongest assets. At this point, however, most see little downside to the most aggressive marketing tactics, arguing that the risk of turning off supporters was no worse than losing the election.

Mr. Trump’s campaign has used a tool created by WinRed, the donation-processing site, that automatically opts supporters into making additional donations for months, and it has generated millions of dollars, according to people familiar with the matter. As far back as June, the campaign had asked supporters to give a second donation timed to Mr. Trump’s birthday. The campaign announced a record-breaking $14 million online haul that day but did not mention that it had piled up promised contributions in advance.

ActBlue, the Democratic donation-processing site, began removing a feature that automatically opted donors into recurring donations from its platform earlier this year. A representative said that no candidates were now using that tool but declined further comment. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, however, still does use the opt-in tool for automatic monthly donations.

The Biden campaign has directed some Facebook ads to existing donors specifically seeking to convert them to weekly and monthly contributors, and the landing pages after people click on those ads have the recurring donation option prechecked.

Mr. Trump’s advisers had once promised that he was building a digital “juggernaut,” but a groundswell of support for Mr. Biden has helped the Democratic challenger lap the incumbent financially since the summer.

The total hauls online via WinRed for Mr. Trump’s campaign itself and the Trump Make America Great Again committee, which he operates jointly with the R.N.C. to raise small donations, rose only marginally from $91.1 million in July to $106.1 million in August to $118.5 million in September. At the same time, Mr. Biden’s online hauls in his equivalent committees exploded from $46 million in July to $191 million in August and $193 million in September.

And in the final stretch, Mr. Trump’s campaign is still spending heavily to raise money.

The Trump Make America Great Again Committee spent $32 million as it raised $36.9 million in the first two weeks of October — a burn rate of nearly 87 percent, according to federal filings. Some of that advertising for donors did double duty mobilizing Mr. Trump’s base.

Mr. Murtaugh said a more “accurate view of fund-raising” would include costs across the campaign, R.N.C. and all their joint committees, which he said was 34 percent from Oct. 1 to Oct. 14, and that had shrunk to 25 percent since Oct. 15.

“It’s clear they are just trying to squeeze every penny out of this thing while they still can,” said Mr. Nellis, the Democratic strategist.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/politics/trump-fundraising-donations.html

wnylib

(21,433 posts)
29. Oh, he will try. Count on that.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:07 AM
Nov 2020

It's why Covid Amy had to be rushed onto the court while people were voting.

Two questions: What excuse will Barr or Rudy use to claim a complaint is valid enough to go through the system up to the SC? And will the court take it seriously enough for a ruling or will it toss out the case?

stopwastingmymoney

(2,041 posts)
20. I have a fun idea
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:05 AM
Nov 2020

If they want to recount Wisconsin. Georgia is so close, if they declare it for T, we should ask for a recount there. Results might be interesting and it would drive them crazy, hehe

Vivienne235729

(3,384 posts)
21. Hahahaha so true. It will be interesting to see if he goes through with it
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:10 AM
Nov 2020

Now that he actually has to pay for it.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
33. He can ask Jill Stein to dip into that remaining $1,000,000 recount money
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:13 AM
Nov 2020

although by now, she may have exchanged it for rubles...

LiberalFighter

(50,895 posts)
36. In Wisconsin, elections are conducted by cities, villages, and townships for the most part.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:47 AM
Nov 2020

Not centralized at the county level like most states.

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