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PCIntern

(25,479 posts)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:26 AM Nov 2020

After a night's sleep, a couple thoughts:

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:15 PM - Edit history (2)

There are two upsides to the Trump presidency. The first is that we now have a list of the worst people in the United States of America. His appointees without doubt were the most dangerous, repulsive group of individuals elevated to high positions I have ever seen. The second piece of good news is it United groups on the left Against this asshole, and the complacency which we had acquired over the last umpteen years is gone.

I have a story to relate from a couple days ago which was not germane to the election per se, so I waited to post it. One of my patients is a very significant African-American attorney here in Philadelphia, who has represented both civilly and criminally some of the biggest names in the city and the surround. I have known him for a long time and can state unequivocally he is one of those people who truly understands the human condition on all levels, and is a quietly brilliant man. He was in the other day, And as got ready to leave he turned to me and he said that for the first time in his life he understands how the Holocaust happened. That a populace can be hoodwinked into beliefs antithetical to normalcy by a dictator. It was quite a statement from a fairly remarkable man.

I cannot wait for the declaration of victory. I am amused That Philadelphia, the birthplace of American democracy, is going to be the place wherein we retake a semblance of sanity and try to rebuild America and it’s civilization.

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After a night's sleep, a couple thoughts: (Original Post) PCIntern Nov 2020 OP
K&R secondwind Nov 2020 #1
Birthplace of democracy Delarage Nov 2020 #2
Biden was born & raised in Scranton, PA. So fitting a son of Pennsylvania from the birthplace of onetexan Nov 2020 #6
Wow, so fitting ananda Nov 2020 #8
Joe belongs to ALL Americans & we'll see 'Joe Slept Here' sign's on Hotels across the land one day. Tommymac Nov 2020 #27
It is going to be difficult to retake that sanity (or semblance thereof) Maeve Nov 2020 #3
for the first time in his life he understands how the Holocaust happened. malaise Nov 2020 #4
It's not unusual for people to overlook the process PCIntern Nov 2020 #5
Indeed malaise Nov 2020 #11
Jesus... PCIntern Nov 2020 #15
dafuq? Kali Nov 2020 #40
Well said n/t Bradshaw3 Nov 2020 #21
In 2016 I tried to warn people of exactly wnylib Nov 2020 #33
my late ultra right winger dad served in the pacific during ww2. AllaN01Bear Nov 2020 #36
The victims always know malaise Nov 2020 #37
It is indeed a sobering statement sdfernando Nov 2020 #46
for the first time I understand the fear of watching it happen. demigoddess Nov 2020 #53
I've seen division promoted on a smaller scare malaise Nov 2020 #54
It was an expensive lesson Cirque du So-What Nov 2020 #7
When the US let Murdoch own TV and Newspaper etc that was our mistake BSdetect Nov 2020 #9
CNN has reported that more than 500,000 Australians are demanding probe into Murdock's media empire hkp11 Nov 2020 #19
Yes indeed. Lonestarblue Nov 2020 #26
I don't either but agree! eom LittleGirl Nov 2020 #28
We had effective laws until Ronnie & Bill let the special interest groups wipe them away Tommymac Nov 2020 #29
Excellent and timely reminder! Thanks for your post, Tommymac. n/t MFGsunny Nov 2020 #32
thank you! hkp11 Nov 2020 #39
Patience Grasshopper. In 2022 we WILL Take back The Senate. Tommymac Nov 2020 #42
fairness doctrine can be used in bad ways too Kali Nov 2020 #41
I tend to disagree. I have lived 1/2 my life under it and 1/2 without it. Tommymac Nov 2020 #45
There need to be consequences for reporting falsehood. soldierant Nov 2020 #56
We need to do that here, indeed!! We need to follow Australia's lead on this. BComplex Nov 2020 #31
Fux, Falsebook, Twit, hate radio: Biggest GOP weapon; biggest GOP vulnerability. lagomorph777 Nov 2020 #34
Thank you for sharing that wonderful insight. Ohiogal Nov 2020 #10
Your patient is wise and correct FakeNoose Nov 2020 #12
We have the lessons of history wnylib Nov 2020 #38
Well said, my friend FakeNoose Nov 2020 #49
It would be very symbolic if Philly gives the State to Biden. llmart Nov 2020 #13
nice keepthemhonestO Nov 2020 #14
Philadelphia, the birthplace of American democracy, he place wherein we retake sanity bucolic_frolic Nov 2020 #16
That is interesting bdamomma Nov 2020 #17
No one was hoodwinked Meowmee Nov 2020 #18
another good news hkp11 Nov 2020 #20
I second that emotion! raccoon Nov 2020 #22
K&R spanone Nov 2020 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author spanone Nov 2020 #24
K&R NoRoadUntravelled Nov 2020 #25
Same here, but I also have great concerns wnylib Nov 2020 #43
Yes. I've thought about that as well. NoRoadUntravelled Nov 2020 #44
Thanks for sharing. LittleGirl Nov 2020 #30
I remember a movie from the 80's that had a profound impact on me. cayugafalls Nov 2020 #35
I just hope Biden prevails and then we can do some kind of deprogramming on trumps cult members. Neema Nov 2020 #47
K&R.nt DLevine Nov 2020 #48
So true and unless we find a fix to Fox and rw hate media it will only get worse. Murdoch reportedly Pepsidog Nov 2020 #50
The Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt should be lunatica Nov 2020 #51
oh wow Skittles Nov 2020 #52
Chilling, but very accurate and incisive. BobTheSubgenius Nov 2020 #55
Voltaire.... dobleremolque Nov 2020 #57
We started by laughing at the absurdities they believe and then were horrified by the atrocities. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2020 #59
Not philly quakerboy Nov 2020 #58

Delarage

(2,186 posts)
2. Birthplace of democracy
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:34 AM
Nov 2020

And it's fitting that a Delawarean helps us re-get there, seeing as we were the first state and all

onetexan

(13,020 posts)
6. Biden was born & raised in Scranton, PA. So fitting a son of Pennsylvania from the birthplace of
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:38 AM
Nov 2020

Democracy should be destined to save it for us

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
27. Joe belongs to ALL Americans & we'll see 'Joe Slept Here' sign's on Hotels across the land one day.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:40 AM
Nov 2020

Making America Care Again.

Maeve

(42,271 posts)
3. It is going to be difficult to retake that sanity (or semblance thereof)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:34 AM
Nov 2020

But I think we have people who can handle it

PCIntern

(25,479 posts)
5. It's not unusual for people to overlook the process
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:37 AM
Nov 2020

when discussing the resultant horrors. That it doesn’t happen overnight and there are enough haters to implement the mechanisms in the initial stages. More fall in line later.

malaise

(268,693 posts)
11. Indeed
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:45 AM
Nov 2020

It's like thinking it's all calm and beautiful as folks watch the sea totally unaware about what lies beneath. People see what they want.

Years ago one of my siblings received an award and her husband boasted on line about his trophy wife. They received more than enough hate male asking how how a trophy wife could be black. That was her awakening after more than 40 years in the US.

wnylib

(21,336 posts)
33. In 2016 I tried to warn people of exactly
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:25 AM
Nov 2020

what your post says, how support for someone like Trump can lead to incremental fascism. Most people could not see it because their minds immediately turned to the results and not the process. They did not know what the process had been in Germany, so they could not understand. I fault our educational system for not making people more aware of the processes by which democracy can be threatened.

I grew up in the post WWII years when Americans were consumed with fear of communism and apparently thought that fascism had been defeated forever. The only reason that I learned anything about the incremental rise of fascism in Europe, and especially in Germany, is because my own curiosity led me to read up on it from not only political analysts, but from people who had lived through it and could describe the day to day process.

AllaN01Bear

(17,987 posts)
36. my late ultra right winger dad served in the pacific during ww2.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:39 AM
Nov 2020

didnt beleive that the Holocaust happened, but there are survivors who felt something happend , esp: the ones with the star of david or number tattos on them.

sdfernando

(4,925 posts)
46. It is indeed a sobering statement
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 12:34 PM
Nov 2020

we heard so many survivors of the Holocaust speak out and tell what was happening before our very eyes....they were warning us that it was beginning here, right now, in the United States of America. So many are not listening and learning from History.

I have to admit that even though I was taught about the Holocaust and all its horrors...even though I was born in Germany and lived basically in the old Dachau camp it was always something that happened way back when. It was ancient history to me. I never really studied how that whole horror came to be in existence. I think we have all had a hard lesson in that respect. I believed we had gotten past that evilness but it crops up every so often....and sad to say that so much so called "religion" is a huge driver of this.

malaise

(268,693 posts)
54. I've seen division promoted on a smaller scare
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:29 PM
Nov 2020

turning brother and sister and famil and friends against one another in the name of ideological war.

hkp11

(275 posts)
19. CNN has reported that more than 500,000 Australians are demanding probe into Murdock's media empire
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:23 AM
Nov 2020

Link: [link:https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/australia-murdoch-media-inquiry-intl-hnk/index.html]

The petition to parliament was launched by former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd a little over three weeks ago and closed on Wednesday. It calls for a Royal Commission — Australia's highest form of public inquiry — to "investigate threats to media diversity." It also accused media businesses of encouraging "deliberately polarizing and politically manipulated news."
While the petition raised several points of concern, including Google (GOOGL) and Facebook's (FB) relationship with the news media, it singled out Murdoch's News Corp (NWS) as a potential threat to free speech and public debate.

"We are especially concerned that Australia's print media is overwhelmingly controlled by News Corporation, founded by Fox News billionaire Rupert Murdoch, with around two-thirds of daily newspaper readership," the petition said. "This power is routinely used to attack opponents in business and politics by blending editorial opinion with news reporting."


We need to do that here!!!

Lonestarblue

(9,958 posts)
26. Yes indeed.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:34 AM
Nov 2020

Fox, Sinclair, and hate radio shock jocks should not be allowed to hide behind the right to free speech. I have no clue how laws could be framed to curtail them yet pass the Constitutional muster, but we need to try.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
29. We had effective laws until Ronnie & Bill let the special interest groups wipe them away
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:49 AM
Nov 2020

The loss of 'The Fairness Doctrine' in Media in 1987 was the first key blow that has crippled our Freedoms ever since.

Then Bill let The Telecommunications Act of 1996 go through and allowed the Media Monoplies to dominate.


AP News
Deregulation destroyed objective reporting
Kathleene Parker
April 14, 2019

https://apnews.com/article/f2021dc7425a4001b1f910a3bb075b87

• Ronald Reagan’s 1987 revocation of the Fairness Doctrine, which had banned bias and forbade news blackouts. One Southern TV station, for example, lost its license for refusing to report on the civil rights movement in a time when public protests to the FCC could cost broadcast licenses. The doctrine’s absence today means hot-button issues like immigration are reported only from ludicrously left-or-right emotional extremes absent context or middle-ground options. Worse are fabrications, such as media headlining our falling birthrate while blatantly ignoring astronomical 28 million to 30 million decadal population explosions, 82 percent immigration-driven, in ours, the third-most populated and highest — by a factor of three — per capita carbon nation. News once reported spontaneously — and honestly — based solely on its own merits is replaced by topics selectively reported to artificially create specific perceptions and a false national “reality.”

• President Bill Clinton signed the 1996 Telecommunications Act removing conflict-of-interest restrictions on all major-media ownership. Once, those who owned media could only own media. Now, those manufacturing weapons can own media, and — as I believe they have — use it to encourage war. National media, in 1996 owned by 52 entities, is now 90 percent owned by six near-monopolies, using TV, internet, major newspapers and movies to their own ends.

Are “leaders” so busy with partisan mudslinging — encouraged by media — they are unaware that media, more than any other force, is tearing the nation apart?

Or, is it that Big Media — a dangerous new version of Big Brother — is ensuring that the conversation about re-regulating media never happens?




hkp11

(275 posts)
39. thank you!
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:47 AM
Nov 2020

well, then this needs to be re-enabled! not sure how it can be done with repuke senate majority

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
42. Patience Grasshopper. In 2022 we WILL Take back The Senate.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:50 AM
Nov 2020

34 seats up and 22 are Rethuglican.

If Moscow Mitch continues to Obstruct the will of The American People then there will be a Blue 'blood bath' in the Senate elections.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
45. I tend to disagree. I have lived 1/2 my life under it and 1/2 without it.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 12:01 PM
Nov 2020

Before, under TFD, we had real discussions and compromise as far as what we saw on TV or heard on the Radio was concerned. It was not in any way marketed or pushed as 'bothsiderism'. Everyone knew that both sides would get to speak, but also knew when the media was simply allowing the minority their fair time on the air.

I submit 'bothsiderism' is a more recent phenomenon that has it's roots in Fox New's infamous 'Fair And Balanced' meme started in the mid 1990's, and the rise of the 'Shock TV' jock to drive ratings that CNN pioneered with the 'Crossfire' model. Jon Stewart effectively neutered the show, and for a short time the meme, when he debated Tucker Carlson in 2006.



soldierant

(6,791 posts)
56. There need to be consequences for reporting falsehood.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:12 PM
Nov 2020

Back in the day of, say, Walter Cronkite there were journalists with integrity (and it helped that they were in charge - no one ever tried to tell Cronkite how to spin something that I know of.) There are probably some today, maybe a lot, but their terms of employment are - different. That is what we need to get back.

And to sustain it, we need to address education - and there need to be consequences for falsehood there as well.

IANAL (and that's probably pretty obvious), but we certainly need lawyers who have a good grasp of this.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
34. Fux, Falsebook, Twit, hate radio: Biggest GOP weapon; biggest GOP vulnerability.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:31 AM
Nov 2020

Time to dismantle, buy out, re-program the brainwashing machine. That will destroy the evil GOP empire.

FakeNoose

(32,579 posts)
12. Your patient is wise and correct
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:47 AM
Nov 2020

"Willful blindness" can happen anywhere when the conditions are ripe.

We've seen it here in the US in the 21st Century, but luckily not all of us fell for it. Enough of us can see through the ruse. We must always remain vigilant and ready to defend the rights of all citizens, especially those who cannot defend themselves. If we don't, we could end up like Germany with Hitler and the Nazis.

wnylib

(21,336 posts)
38. We have the lessons of history
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:44 AM
Nov 2020

and the long-standing democracy that Germany lacked, so we have the ability to do what Germans did not do - stop the growth of fascism before it takes total control. There is no excuse for us not to.

But, remember that even in Germany, there were people who courageously opposed fascism while it was in process - and even after it took over the nation. They were too much in the minority to succeed. They had a short history of democratic government.

We can do better. We must or we will walk the same path.

llmart

(15,532 posts)
13. It would be very symbolic if Philly gives the State to Biden.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:47 AM
Nov 2020

I just awoke and am wondering how the count is going in PA? I remember being a teenager and visiting Philly for the first time. I bought a little liberty bell to put on my desk at home. Philly/PA was the first time I'd ever travelled outside my little rural town in Ohio and from then on I was bitten by the travel bug and the fact that there was a whole diverse country out there for me to see. I was also hell bent on getting an education too.

bucolic_frolic

(43,044 posts)
16. Philadelphia, the birthplace of American democracy, he place wherein we retake sanity
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:06 AM
Nov 2020

I don't want to exhibit Trumpian/QAnon paranoia, but this slow and cautious rollout of election results culminating in Philly has remarkable synergy to the point of orchestration in my mind. Are we trying to burst the bubble and drag MAGA back to earth in a hopefully peaceful manner? Its geographically continent-wide, east, west, north, south, there are other close races. Ah, probably the happenstance of a failing cult, but remarkable to the point of karma.

bdamomma

(63,799 posts)
17. That is interesting
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:12 AM
Nov 2020

comment at the end. Where our democracy started it will be restored again. How symbolic!

Our forefathers are watching.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
18. No one was hoodwinked
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:16 AM
Nov 2020

There was already terrible violence / pogroms and a long history of intense hatred.

hkp11

(275 posts)
20. another good news
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:29 AM
Nov 2020

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:00 AM - Edit history (2)

we know what lengths the Senate repukes, other repukes will go to keep their power and grab $$$, help Drumpf and get their agenda done - tax cuts, SCOTUS appointments, put out lies and support lies beyond belief, suppress votes any way possible, etc.

they cannot be trusted. they will do anything - even cheat to get their way. And the Senate repukes, other repukes do everything in their power to destroy Dems powers when we win.

raccoon

(31,105 posts)
22. I second that emotion!
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:53 AM
Nov 2020
And as he got ready to leave he turned to me and he said that for the first time in his life he understands how the Holocaust happened.

Response to PCIntern (Original post)

wnylib

(21,336 posts)
43. Same here, but I also have great concerns
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:50 AM
Nov 2020

that the announcement will trigger violent reactions from the RWers.

NoRoadUntravelled

(2,626 posts)
44. Yes. I've thought about that as well.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:55 AM
Nov 2020

I'm sad to say your concerns may turn out to be valid. These people are devoted to Trump and will do anything for him. He's good at inciting violence. They're waiting for his signal.

LittleGirl

(8,279 posts)
30. Thanks for sharing.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:49 AM
Nov 2020

This is the most furious election I’ve ever experienced. In 2000, I wasn’t voting back then.

cayugafalls

(5,639 posts)
35. I remember a movie from the 80's that had a profound impact on me.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:38 AM
Nov 2020

It was called The Wave. A High School experiment goes wrong...

It was supposed to be an after school special but ended up running at night along with 60 Minutes.



Experiments like this should be done in all schools. Maybe hatred would go down...

Neema

(1,151 posts)
47. I just hope Biden prevails and then we can do some kind of deprogramming on trumps cult members.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 12:51 PM
Nov 2020

It's truly terrifying how monstrous they've become. And I know a certain percentage of them always were monstrous and found a champion in trump. But I have to believe that at least some of them have been fully brainwashed and indoctrinated due to a combination of poor education, ignorance, gullibility, hardship and fear.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
50. So true and unless we find a fix to Fox and rw hate media it will only get worse. Murdoch reportedly
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:36 PM
Nov 2020

said “it’s time for America to cool off “. An you imagine the balls in this bastard, knowing he is whipping up hate and allowing it to continue. Limbaugh will hopefully be deep six soon and I hope Murdoch suffers another fall soon. They should both burn in hell.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
51. The Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt should be
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:58 PM
Nov 2020

required reading in High School.

I read a lot of books on the Holocaust by authors who wanted to understand how it happened on the ground from both points of view. I also read the book about the Nazi killing squads who were deployed exclusively to villages to kill the Jewish citizens in the immediate wake of their military advancement. They were called Einsatzgruppen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

It’s become pretty clear that “normal” people can be used to do monstrous things simply because they will follow their leader no matter what. All that has to be done is to normalize cruelty.

I think there may be a very strong correlation between violent authoritarian upbringing and the acceptance of authoritarian violence as a fact of life. As a normal thing.

I have no trouble imagining the MAGATs who adore Trump acting as a mob to kill the rest of us. It used to be much harder to ‘see’ than it is now. Now it would take an idiot not to see it.

Skittles

(153,111 posts)
52. oh wow
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 05:58 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I read about a police captain saying us Biden voters should be lined up and shot and that's what I thought too - I will never again have to wonder how the Holocaust could have happened, I have now seen it with my own eye

BobTheSubgenius

(11,559 posts)
55. Chilling, but very accurate and incisive.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:05 PM
Nov 2020

The death camps were a long (?) way off, but Kristallnacht was looming.

quakerboy

(13,916 posts)
58. Not philly
Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:09 AM
Nov 2020

The cake is NV is where we won it. The icing is GA is where we can still take senate control. The city of brotherly love is just the a nice cherry on top to make it all look good and drive the point home.

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