General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone Consider Russian Hacking?
We know they did it in 2016, and we know Trump welcomed their help. We know McConnell and his cohorts did nothing to stop it from happening this year. So the question I've been wondering for a couple of days now (and that I haven't seen anyone discuss on this forum yet) is why we're not talking about THAT as a possible reason for how close this election was. Maybe it's not all the "doom and gloom" explanations we've been hearing lately (i.e. "our message just doesn't resonate," or, "America is more racist than we expected," or whatever), but it's actually outside interference making it LOOK that way.
I know we were all a little disappointed in how close it was, and are wondering how the polls could be so off, but what if the polls WEREN'T off at all, and it was the Russian hacking that made it LOOK close? The experts have been saying all along that we can overwhelm the Russian hacking efforts if we vote in big enough numbers. Isn't it possible that the Russians DID hack this election, but we just voted in overwhelming enough numbers to overcome their interference? Couldn't THAT possibly be the reason for losing Florida and Ohio and Texas and Iowa and some other States that most people expected Biden to be extremely competitive in? And why his margins of victory in some of these States that looked pretty safe all along were smaller than expected?
As I said, for as much of a worry as Russian hacking has been for the last 4 years, I'm surprised nobody has been talking about the possibility that they actually DID hack the vote again this year, but the Biden vote was just too big for them to overcome. Especially since we KNOW they were going to try to do it again AND were getting help from the Republicans, who refused to do anything to stop them.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)NT
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,781 posts)Despite heavy involvement in 2016 AND the fact that all our intelligence agencies said they were going to try to do it again AND the fact that Republicans rejected every election security bill that came down the pike?
stopdiggin
(11,248 posts)also said (repeatedly) that there was no evidence of altered votes. Now if you want to take up the story of what they did, unequivocally, do -- disinformation, destabilization, polarization -- as well as coordination (data, information and leaks) with one of the campaigns ... I think that the intelligence people have already announced that, yes, efforts to influence the electorate (and the election) were in play for this cycle too. No big surprise.
The difference is, a lot of the tinfoil hats insist on a scenario where some Boris is sneaking into some voting machine somewhere -- and flipping D votes to Rs. What the rest of us are trying to tell them is -- they probably aren't, and furthermore they don't really HAVE to!
And incidentally -- you couldn't have scripted an outcome more to Putin's taste (or agenda) -- that what you see rolling out before you today. And all delivered to him by the American voter.
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renate
(13,776 posts)rzemanfl
(29,554 posts)flamingdem
(39,308 posts)Plus DeJoy did a number on mail in ballots.
Honest_Abe
(155 posts)We need a truly nonpartisan Justice Department to look into it.
yardwork
(61,539 posts)Numerous investigations - including Mueller's - found that Russians may have hacked into vote tabulating machines in 2016.
It seems it would be pretty simple to program a vote tabulating machine to flip every 5 votes from one candidate to the other, for instance.
Exit polls have been considered reliable for decades. Why such a disparity in 2016 and now?
How do we get the House to investigate this?
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)In PA, absentee ballots matched polling. Speaks volumes to me.
Ruby Zee
(170 posts)I would like to see more analysis of results via hackable machine or paper ballot from all the states. We have had a hacking problem since at least 2000 in one form or another.
Voter Verified Paper Ballots for all!
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)How about Ivanka's voting machines?
wiggs
(7,810 posts)change an address, a middle name, a signature, age, etc...and let Giuliani know so that he knows where to look for ballots to invalidate?
TrishaJ
(797 posts)when the electronic vote results starting coming in. And it WAS the plan to vote in such overwhelming numbers it couldn't be tampered with. Also, hackers cannot mess with mail in voting results as there is a hard-copy paper trail of the votes. I wouldn't say for sure there was hacking; but I wouldn't rule it out, either.
Blue Owl
(50,271 posts)C'mon people -- we're dealing with Donald Fucking tRump here -- the sleaziest businessman in our country's history -- who is openly getting away with every possible method of cheating to steal this thing, so he can keep his "get out of jail free" card. Just look how desperate he is. He is guilty and he knows it.
There is plenty of documentation and evidence linking him to Russia/Putin.
It would help explain why the polls were so skewed in areas where there are electronic/hackable machines (whereas mail-in ballot data seems more consistent with polling averages).
And right now there's no way of knowing for sure, which is a perfect cover-up operation for malfeasance.
If evidence from a legitimate federal investigation proves that there was no interference, then I would be inclined to accept those results.
And we really need to safeguard our election systems so that it's not even possible to hack or flip votes (like it is now).
Captain Zero
(6,785 posts)They always switch votes in the largest precincts in the largest counties. It's been found before in the final numbers at that level. But is always roundly ignored.
Chakaconcarne
(2,436 posts)...and over the next 4 years figure out what we're going to do about it.
crickets
(25,952 posts)I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cheat was in, but they just couldn't quite put trump over the top without making it too obvious.
👆 👆 👆 👆 👆 👆
Entirely plausible.
Captain Zero
(6,785 posts)But I guarantee they did do it.
Look at the precinct level say in Milwaukee County.
The vote off of the machines will be much closer than the vote of the mail in ballots for the same precinct.
At the precinct level there should not be a lot of difference.
MagickMuffin
(15,933 posts)because things just look too suspicious. All the republicons winning most all their seats sans a few that didn't. Something just seems off.
And putin doesn't care if his useful idiot is gone, he still has the senate.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)and past evidence of machine tampering. Yes. Not to mention Post Office tampering.
stopdiggin
(11,248 posts)have nothing to do with the Post Office -- or dishonest Republicans messing with elections. (other than the fact that they're high-fiving each other -- and virtually laughing their asses off) Good old fashion American cheating.
LaMouffette
(2,020 posts)To me, it's just bizarre that over his first term Trump has had an average approval rating of 40 percent. That's historically low. Also, in 2016, he lost the popular vote by about 3 million votes, and since then, he has made zero effort to gain more supporters. He has only tried to strengthen his 40 percent base. Plus, 2020 has seen historic voter turnout. High voter turnout usually favors Democrats.
So, what gives? Did Trump gain more supporters? Or are Russian hackers somehow manipulating the vote counting?
movingviolation
(310 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,313 posts)In the last 48 hours. They arent behaving like a campaign confident they are going to win.
phylny
(8,368 posts)Trump tried to stop mail-in voting because someone told him it's more difficult to hack those votes, especially because there's a necessary paper trail. Now, he's ranting and raving because he thought those hacks that were in place would actually work in his favor.
I am hoping a Biden Department of Justice gets to the bottom of this once and for all. No redactions!
JCMach1
(27,553 posts)And in the Rio Grande Valley Counties in TX.
These machines have known vulnerabilities.
movingviolation
(310 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)...also the GOP brainwashing machine (Fux, Falsebook, Twit, hate radio).
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)Polls are too open to ratfuckery.
Catherine Vincent
(34,486 posts)Just maybe not on a larger scale as 2016.
lobointexas
(85 posts)I think they did it in 2016 and again in 2020. The Russians didn't spend their time hacking in all 50 states for nothing.
The Senate Intelligence Committee concluded Thursday that election systems in all 50 states were targeted by Russia in 2016, an effort more far-reaching than previously acknowledged and one largely undetected by the states and federal officials at the time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/us/politics/russian-hacking-elections.html
crickets
(25,952 posts)While the Senate Intelligence Committees findings were bipartisan, they came on a day when Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, moved again to block consideration of election security legislation put forward by Democrats. [snip]
And despite the warnings about the Russia threat, he argues that Congress has already done enough passing $380 million worth of grants for states to update their election systems and supporting executive branch agencies as they make their own changes. Some administration officials have suggested that the issue is not getting enough high-level attention because President Trump equates any public discussion of malign Russian election activity with questions about the legitimacy of his victory. [snip]
Mr. McConnell has held fast to his position despite withering criticism from Democrats, and agitation from some in his party who want the Senate to move more modest, bipartisan legislation. The Democratic proposal, already passed by the House, would have given the states hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, mandated the use of backup paper ballots and required risk-limiting postelection audits.
Moscow Mitch has earned his nickname for many reasons.
JHB
(37,157 posts)...but until we have something solid we can't wave it around as an explanation.
Same goes for reviewing 2016, which also should be done by a DoJ that isn't controlled by Putin's pigeon.
And I am expressly NOT repeating the phrase Putin's pigeon just to ruffle anyone's orange feathers, I swear.
tblue37
(65,227 posts)live love laugh
(13,080 posts)Boogiemack
(1,406 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)but we'll never know. Although, when was it last week...last week? that a bunch of hospitals had their systems go kerflooey?