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cab67

(2,990 posts)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:59 PM Nov 2020

I'm about to give up.

A few points added on edit:

- I live in a fairly progressive community. Being surrounded by red hatters isn't an issue to me - the great majority of people where I live, and in my profession, would rather eat a live tarantula than vote for Trump.

- I'm increasingly confident that Biden will win the presidency. But it's not going to make a difference as long as McConnell is in charge of the Senate. There won't be real accountability for those who committed crimes in the Trump administration. Biden can probably reverse some of Trump's executive orders, but he'll never get to appoint someone to the Supreme Court. His agenda will die of starvation in Senate committees. And because nothing will get done, Americans will vote for a Republican in 2024.

- Even worse, we can't claim that Trump is being thrown out in disgrace. He may have lost the popular vote, but the margin is a lot narrower than it should have been. This means we don't just have to worry about his rabid core of dead enders - it's almost half of the country's population.


--------------------------------

I'm serious.

This election should have been a blowout. That it wasn't tells me that too many people looked at someone with a long history of moderate politics in government, someone who accepts physical reality, and decided that a lying bigoted loudmouth with artificial skin color and a lengthy record of denying what everyone can plainly see would be a better president. Even after four years of demonstrable failure and national embarrassment.

I'm tired to death of being told that I don't understand rural America, or coal miners, or evangelicals, or any other class of people who voted for Trump. I grew up in a working class family, I used to be a very serious Roman Catholic, I have a degree in geology, and I live in the upper midwest. And way beyond that, I've listened to people who voted for Trump ad nauseam. I think I've got a perfectly good understanding of such people.

The problem is that these people don't understand us. And because we're told to respect all sides (as if there's more than one legitimate side), and because there's an intricate media infrastructure that both feeds and gets fed by a market dedicated to membership in a group of people who know "the truth" and hold the key to being a "real American," getting them to even be willing to understand us is a lost cause.

This is why I'm repeatedly told that I want to take everyone's guns, shove socialized medicine down everyone's throats, and take everyone's hard-earned money. Which I don't. Which no Democrat does.

Solving a problem doesn't work if half of the people needed to find a solution don't think there's a problem in the first place.

It's not going to get better.

Next opportunity to get a job outside the US, I'm taking it.



54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm about to give up. (Original Post) cab67 Nov 2020 OP
This election would look so much different if PA MissB Nov 2020 #1
Agreed. TwilightZone Nov 2020 #15
It's very difficult to beat an incumbent, and Trump's support is historically stable. TwilightZone Nov 2020 #2
Also, they cheated a lot. meadowlander Nov 2020 #10
Well said moose65 Nov 2020 #14
Good luck to you in your new country. I'm 73 and stuck here. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #3
I have a spare room canetoad Nov 2020 #16
Where the hell is oz? Bass Coast? n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #20
About as far from the US canetoad Nov 2020 #22
Do I need ruby slippers to visit family or would a hard whack on the head work? n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #24
I have a secret garden canetoad Nov 2020 #30
Voting machines & USPS SheltieLover Nov 2020 #4
Babe, I lived abroad for 12 years. Mexico City (4 yrs), Firenze (1 yr), Venezia (7 yrs.) fierywoman Nov 2020 #5
I'm glad I read your post... consider_this Nov 2020 #25
And remember: in Spanish and in Italian, there's no word for "freedom." Imagine how that fierywoman Nov 2020 #29
OT but BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #34
What an interesting history! Can you expand on your experience a bit? I, and I am sure others, smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #33
May I start by saying, if you have a yen to live abroad to experience another culture, do work that fierywoman Nov 2020 #47
Ok, thank you for that. smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #51
May I ask what instrument(s) you play(ed)... electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #39
The viola. Which is very funny in Spanish -- una violista can also be read as one who violates ... fierywoman Nov 2020 #41
Oh, I played viola for one year in 5th grade... electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #46
Good for you! fierywoman Nov 2020 #48
Thanks, and ha! electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #52
My son says the problem is Biden is too centrist, not progressive enough Freddie Nov 2020 #6
Biden was probably the perfect candidate for this election. TwilightZone Nov 2020 #8
Agree Freddie Nov 2020 #13
Absolutely he would've lost. SharonAnn Nov 2020 #53
Biden was the ONLY candidate the Democrats had that could beat Trump Yavin4 Nov 2020 #12
Exactly, The attacks were starting to hurt him also but the fact most people knew JI7 Nov 2020 #18
Thank you. That has been my belief canetoad Nov 2020 #21
Exactly. Mr.Bill Nov 2020 #28
I doubt it JonLP24 Nov 2020 #31
No other Dem could be this competitive in PA Yavin4 Nov 2020 #37
Wasn't Pennsylvania a reliable blue state until 2016? JonLP24 Nov 2020 #40
Yes we were Freddie Nov 2020 #44
Bernie would have been a catastrophe, in my opinion. cab67 Nov 2020 #42
Totally agree re Bernie Freddie Nov 2020 #43
Young voters are why Democrats win elections JonLP24 Nov 2020 #45
That's a pipe dream, IMO shrike3 Nov 2020 #50
I hear that a lot from Bernie supporters. They don't seem to understand. shrike3 Nov 2020 #49
I wouldn't rule out election interference crimycarny Nov 2020 #7
Things never turn out exactly as we want them. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2020 #9
Stop it AmericanCanuck Nov 2020 #11
And it's always been this way since the War of independence. Kaleva Nov 2020 #17
I read you. It's going to take a lot of luck, work, determination mahina Nov 2020 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author rzemanfl Nov 2020 #23
I'm moving away too. MoonlitKnight Nov 2020 #26
PM me if you find a place. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #32
You can always have a little fun Mr.Bill Nov 2020 #27
That was well written and I agree BlueNProud Nov 2020 #35
Bye. Wednesdays Nov 2020 #36
You might find the happiness you're looking for if you move to a major city right here in the USA mtnsnake Nov 2020 #38
Sadly, if there had been no Covid-19, Trump would easily won. progressoid Nov 2020 #54

MissB

(15,804 posts)
1. This election would look so much different if PA
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:01 PM
Nov 2020

And a few other states (WI? MI?) could’ve opened and started the beginning part of ballot processing before Election Day.

It would’ve been looking a helluva lot better.

Result would be the same but with less angst.

TwilightZone

(25,428 posts)
15. Agreed.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:11 PM
Nov 2020

Had it been called Election Night, we're talking about this as an enormous win. It's still an enormous win, but the uncertainty is blunting the impact.

TwilightZone

(25,428 posts)
2. It's very difficult to beat an incumbent, and Trump's support is historically stable.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:05 PM
Nov 2020

Contrary to what we all wanted to believe (including me), this was never going to be a blowout. Many of us assumed that Trump *had* to lose support, but that belief wasn't based in reality.

Assuming he wins NV, AZ, PA, and/or GA, Biden's accomplishment is highly impressive. GA should be a shocker to everyone, but it doesn't seem that many realize just how significant it is.

We're disappointed about the Senate outcome, but I think our expectations were similarly a bit too elevated. We still have a shot with the two runoffs, but our next shot is 2022. It's the long game.

I do agree that many Trump supporters are a lost cause. As you noted, we've been told that we need to figure them out. I disagree. I think we should write them off to a large degree and focus on the voters for whom our message is positive. Turnout is always going to be the key as it was this cycle.

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
10. Also, they cheated a lot.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:09 PM
Nov 2020

The GOP have turned purging voter rolls, gerrymandering and suppressing turnout into an art form.

Yes, 35% of the country should still have gotten off their ass and voted in the first place and 34% of the country is irretrievably wicked or insane but 36% got us over the line this week.

Giving up isn't going to make it better.

moose65

(3,166 posts)
14. Well said
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:11 PM
Nov 2020

We don’t need to try to understand or convert hardcore Trump lovers. They are a lost cause. Instead, we need to concentrate on younger voters, people of color, LGBT folks, and unaffiliated voters who are receptive to our ideas.

And you’re right - it’s a long haul. We cry a little, then dust ourselves off and start again.

canetoad

(17,136 posts)
30. I have a secret garden
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:25 PM
Nov 2020

Behind my shed that contains the magical essence (at certain times of the year) to take you wherever your heart desires.

fierywoman

(7,672 posts)
5. Babe, I lived abroad for 12 years. Mexico City (4 yrs), Firenze (1 yr), Venezia (7 yrs.)
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:06 PM
Nov 2020

I worked as a classical musician playing in their best orchestras. So I was very much part of the most exalted part of their culture. Sweetie-pie, if you think that by leaving the USA you'll leave the trumpists (& their mentality) behind, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you.

I send you peace and calm waters.

consider_this

(2,203 posts)
25. I'm glad I read your post...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:19 PM
Nov 2020

In the past several years I thought about if leaving here should be considered, and in the last few days, thought hard on it. Then I came to the personal conclusion that this election is really a referendum on the nature of humans in general. I tend to think that there are always going to be at least a 30 - 50 % of selfish assholes and/or ignorant members of a herd, and expect it would be no different anywhere. I was contemplating this idea, and your post rather backs up those thoughts.

I am hoping we can still strive to make the best of what we can, wherever we are - and today, that is here.

fierywoman

(7,672 posts)
29. And remember: in Spanish and in Italian, there's no word for "freedom." Imagine how that
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:25 PM
Nov 2020

affects the psyche of the populace. "Liberty" -- yes, but as an American, "freedom" is much dearer to me than "liberty."
Although I will say, the food in Italy is better -- but when I lived there, I could never find ginger -- or avocados -- or thyme! I endlessly heard, "Da noi facciamo cosi`" -- we do it this way. And they tell you how to do EVERYTHING.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
33. What an interesting history! Can you expand on your experience a bit? I, and I am sure others,
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:32 PM
Nov 2020

would be interested to hear what you have to say about living in those cultures as opposed to living here in the US. Especially regarding politics. I know every country has its right-wingers, but is it really as bad in those places as it is here? At least they aren't armed to the teeth, as far as I know.

fierywoman

(7,672 posts)
47. May I start by saying, if you have a yen to live abroad to experience another culture, do work that
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:10 PM
Nov 2020

you can't do here, etc., then absolutely: go for it. I loved the experiences I had living abroad. My life is vastly richer experience-wise because of those experiences.

When I first moved to Mexico (1978) I was (typically American -- or to be pc, I should say, "North American" ) very unaware -- so much so that, when my orch was planning a tour of South America in 1979, the conductor said, "We're having such problems with the visas --" (the orch was comprised of Mexicans, USA Americans, Bulgarians, Poles and Russians; it was like all 3 worlds in one.) He continued, "The Cubans don't want the Americans. The Argentinians don't want the Russians." At the time, I had no idea what on earth he was talking about. Eventually I learned -- and I learned that EVERYTHING in life is political.

Frankly, smirkymonkey, I could go on and on, but I don't know where to begin.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
51. Ok, thank you for that.
Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:10 AM
Nov 2020

I just love to hear about people's experiences living abroad. I spent a semester living in Austria as a college student and it was one of the most wonderful times of my life. I would love the opportunity to live abroad again, but I think due to my age and work status, I wouldn't be able to swing it.

It might be possible to retire abroad if I could settle my student loan, but that is kind of a big if. What did you think of Italy? There is a slight possibility that I could get Italian/EU membership since my Italian grandfather wasn't a naturalized US citizen until after my father was born, so I think I could technically qualify. However, I don't know if it would be worth the hassle unless things got really bad over here.

electric_blue68

(14,818 posts)
39. May I ask what instrument(s) you play(ed)...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:47 PM
Nov 2020

Many, many years ago a friend of my sister's stayed over night. She was/is a cellist. She played a few pieces on her instrument. It was wonderful.

I love music, and especially live. 🎵 💖 🎶

electric_blue68

(14,818 posts)
46. Oh, I played viola for one year in 5th grade...
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:05 PM
Nov 2020

I wanted the clarinet, or the violin.

I think they gave me the viola bc I had hit pueberty so I got taller, and curvy - they probably thought give the violin to one of the smaller girls.

I remember we used to race up & down the hallway balancing our bows on the palm of our hands. I know, not the way to treat it.

I did get the clarinet the next year! My sis played the bassoon for 3 yrs in HS.

Oh, crazy about the dual phrase. Such a terrible one.

Thanks for answering.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
6. My son says the problem is Biden is too centrist, not progressive enough
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:06 PM
Nov 2020

I think he’s wrong. Bernie would not have done as well.

TwilightZone

(25,428 posts)
8. Biden was probably the perfect candidate for this election.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:08 PM
Nov 2020

He's the anti-Trump. He's everything Trump isn't. The contrast couldn't be more stark. His temperament is the polar opposite. I think that he was exactly what we needed at this point in time, especially with the pandemic in full stride.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
13. Agree
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:11 PM
Nov 2020

My son is 30. He voted for Biden unhappily. I told him we have to start somewhere. IMO Bernie would have lost decisively.

JI7

(89,241 posts)
18. Exactly, The attacks were starting to hurt him also but the fact most people knew
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:13 PM
Nov 2020

him was what made it tougher. That's why they started targeting Harris .

canetoad

(17,136 posts)
21. Thank you. That has been my belief
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:15 PM
Nov 2020

For quite some time. Nothing against the other candidates - they are all exceptional people, but....

I won't go so far as to say the Joe/Kamala ticket was preordained by the party, but it looks like they have done a job that no-one else could have done.

Mr.Bill

(24,251 posts)
28. Exactly.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:24 PM
Nov 2020

Imagine any other Democrat at the debates and think of where we would be right now if they got the nomination.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
31. I doubt it
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:26 PM
Nov 2020

You don't have to pick Sanders. You could have picked someone like Booker or someone who can do well in debates like Kamala Harris. I'm just saying I don't think Biden is the only one.

Yavin4

(35,421 posts)
37. No other Dem could be this competitive in PA
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:41 PM
Nov 2020

It was one of the primary reasons why Obama chose him to be his VP. Obama lost the 2008 primary in PA, and he knew that it would be difficult to win the presidency without PA.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
40. Wasn't Pennsylvania a reliable blue state until 2016?
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:48 PM
Nov 2020

I don't know what it is with Trump and the blue wall. You are probably right Biden does have an advantage in Pennsylvania.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
44. Yes we were
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:57 PM
Nov 2020

Normally - and I think we’ll see this in a few hours - the cities outvote Pennsyltucky. 2016 was an outlier (IMO) due to, hate to say, lack of enthusiasm for HRC among many city folks.

cab67

(2,990 posts)
42. Bernie would have been a catastrophe, in my opinion.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:50 PM
Nov 2020

Anyone to the left of Donald Trump would have been tarred as a commie. That Sanders comes close to actually promoting that persona would have driven a lot of people away.

My opinion, anyway.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
43. Totally agree re Bernie
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:54 PM
Nov 2020

The younger crowd doesn’t get that. He voted for Biden “with his nose closed” but at least he did, helped Palm Beach Co. stay blue despite the rest of the state.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
45. Young voters are why Democrats win elections
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:59 PM
Nov 2020

Bernie Sanders Can Beat Trump. Here’s the Math.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/opinion/bernie-sanders-polls.html

Basically young & latino/hispanic (he did well with them in the primaries) would have carried him over the edge like they are with Biden.

shrike3

(3,489 posts)
50. That's a pipe dream, IMO
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:19 PM
Nov 2020


There aren't enough progressives in this country to put a progressive president in office.

And young people didn't show up in the primaries. How could we have depended on them to show up in the general. This article is dated Feb. 28. Not really relevant now, IMO.

shrike3

(3,489 posts)
49. I hear that a lot from Bernie supporters. They don't seem to understand.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:16 PM
Nov 2020

Bernie is an actual social democrat. The Trump campaign managed to convince millions of Americans that Biden would turn America into a socialist hellhole. Imagine the bloodbath we'd have had if an actual social democrat had run.

I'm sure your son is a lovely person, but he is wrong.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
7. I wouldn't rule out election interference
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:06 PM
Nov 2020

It’s extremely odd to me that unhackable mail-in ballots match polls almost exactly while votes tallied via machines are wildly off the polls, and ALL in favor of Trump.

We need more secure elections, period. I just don’t buy that the polls were that far off again.

Georgia switched to all paper ballots. Do you think what’s happening in Georgia is an anomaly from all other states that are wildly off the polls and going for Trump....that is until they started counting mail-in ballots?

No, something stinks to high heaven. Why do you think Trump fought so hard against mail-in ballots?

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,757 posts)
9. Things never turn out exactly as we want them.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:08 PM
Nov 2020

We won. Let's take it from there and build on it.

Perfection only exists in the land of make believe.

mahina

(17,622 posts)
19. I read you. It's going to take a lot of luck, work, determination
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:13 PM
Nov 2020

And money to recover.

What kind of work are you in if I might ask? I love a few young people who are at the deciding on career stage and I’d love to be able to suggest something positive and portable.

Best luck. Please stay registered to vote?

Response to mahina (Reply #19)

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
26. I'm moving away too.
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:19 PM
Nov 2020

Georgia might be a good place to reside until January 5th. I hear a couple of Senate candidates could use some votes.

Mr.Bill

(24,251 posts)
27. You can always have a little fun
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:20 PM
Nov 2020

by asking them why they are so preoccupied with things being rammed down their throats.

And they use that term a lot.

I am also seriously shopping garage sales and thrift stores for a GI Joe doll so I can take it out and ask "Show us on the doll where the bad man took your gun."

mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
38. You might find the happiness you're looking for if you move to a major city right here in the USA
Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:44 PM
Nov 2020

but if that doesn't suit you, and you really want to get a job in a new country, consider applying for a work permit in Canada with hopes of living in either Toronto, Montreal, or Ottawa. I've been to that country hundreds of times and it's fantastic. Good luck to you!

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