it's the fucking touchscreens ppl.

[mopinko]

we are winning where there are paper ballots.

early voting in most places is touch screen.
election day voting in a lot of places is touchscreen.
that is where allllll the trump lead is.

they are stealing it and even here, no one gets it.

paper ballots- biden
vapor ballots- trump.

yes, it is that simple.

[MaryMagdaline]

1. I think you are right.

[DENVERPOPS]

139. Hell yes

That is why for months and months ahead of the election the RepubliCONs and Dejoy were trying to trash the mail in voting system and absentee voting systems. And succeeded to some extent, just look at the logjams of ballots still in the Post Offices and the number of mail in & absentee votes that are still not delivered..........

THE REPUBLIcons, ARE, BY FAR, THE MOST THOROUGHLY CORRUPT POLITICAL PARTY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR NATION. PERIOD....

[alterfurz]

187. "There is now no longer a Republican party...

...only the Trump party." -- former Republican House Speaker John Boehner

"Trump is a sociopathic megalomaniac, and the Republican party is the most dangerous organization on earth." -- Noam Chomsky

[LymphocyteLover]

2. I bet there is some of that-- mail in ballots saved us

Colorado does all mail in and the polls were accurate there

[rainin]

217. Why don't we hear this more? I'm so frustrated by the constant assertion

that polls are wrong, whether they're exit polls or polls taken prior to an election. It prevents anyone from actually asking the question "why?" They'll never even investigate the security of these touch screens if they've convinced people the problem is with the polls. I'm most disappointed in polling organizations like Nate Silver 538. Why isn't he defending his numbers and asking people to consider alternative explanations. We won't find answers if we're asking the wrong questions.

[LymphocyteLover]

230. Yes. Agree. There could be a lot of reasons for this polling phenomenon

and other reasons besides electronic vote fraud, but it really needs to be discussed.

[Phoenix61]

3. Florida is paper and we damn sure ain't winning there. nt

[LymphocyteLover]

6. Yeah, I think Florida is rigged differently-- or more heavy suppression

[mopinko]

13. good old fashioned ballot box stuffing. and ballots piled up in the post office.

[LymphocyteLover]

17. any idea who exactly does the ballot stuffing?

I mean Republicans obviously control it, but is it farmed out somehow?

[mopinko]

31. i have no idea the mechanics. prolly registered phony voters.

[meadowlander]

39. Here's how they do it:

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746800630/north-carolina-gop-operative-faces-new-felony-charges-that-allege-ballot-fraud

[mopinko]

66. yeah, they did that shit BEFORE computers.

it's easier now.

[CreekDog]

123. interesting to watch you two yakking back and forth about how they are stealing it

while simulataneously saying you have no idea how they are stealing it.

and stealing an election that Joe Biden is winning.

i swear. some people should spend more time reading about a topic before talking about a topic.

i mean, what are you accomplishing?

another voice saying that an election that Biden is about to win was stolen?

[BarackTheVote]

224. That's like saying "the sun is shining...

That’s like saying “The sun is shining,” “Do you know why?” “No.” “Then I guess it’s not shining.”

Consistent discrepancies between polls and exit polls and results is evidence that something fishy’s going on. Is it shy Trump voters? Unexpected demographics turning out? Trolls lying to pollsters? Machines that have been compromised? I mean, we already know how easily those machines can be hacked; we’ve had anecdotes of people SEEING their vote switch before their eyes.

I don’t know if there’s anyone out there actually hacking the results, or how often those vote switches occur and if they’re enough to have any impact on an election—but don’t you wanna find out? What’s the harm in doing a thorough audit and examination of our voting infrastructure to see if voting machines and tallying machines are in any way contributing to what we’re seeing?

If there’s nothing there, then there’s nothing there. Move on to the next theory. But if there’s something there, we need to know.

(Edit, because, whatever: I know why the sun shines, but I know that because people didn’t stop at the “No” and kept investigating to find out the why.)

[crimycarny]

226. It's happening -- and not that hard to do

https://washingtonspectator.org/did-an-election-day-lawsuit-stop-karl-roves-vote-rigging-scheme-in-ohio/

This page below won’t open up correctly on my iPad but it contains a lot of information regard how easy it is to flip votes with electronic voting machines:

https://www.justice-integrity.org/218-did-expert-witness-activists-thwart-a-rove-ohio-vote-plot

Not just Ohio, Florida and too. According to Anonymous they thwarted Karl Rove’s attempts to flip votes in the 2012 election. Remember Rove’s infamous meltdown on FOX when they called Ohio for Obama?

https://www.salon.com/2012/11/20/did_anonymous_stop_rove_stealing_the_election/

[Polybius]

160. Or maybe they are actually crazy enough to like him

I’ve been to many parts, it’s much more conservative than we like to admit.

[LymphocyteLover]

161. Oh, totally--- Florida is strong trump country

but it does have an equal number of Dems who consistently get beaten in statewide races

[mopinko]

7. all of it?

early voting too?

[Phoenix61]

8. Yep!

[mopinko]

10. there is another thread here about trupm getting 200k more than hillary in miami dade.

sorry. bullshit.

[Phoenix61]

23. Not sure about the total number but he eked out

enough more in a lot of different demographics. Plus, huge Cuban population and they always go repub. How do you think little Rubio got his start.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article246923842.html

[mopinko]

43. i aint buyin that shit about cubanos.

obama opened the country. trump closed it. and more of them voted for trump than voted for hillary?
sorry, doesnt pass the smell test.
great scapegoat, tho.

[Phoenix61]

48. Obama wasn't running.

Biden’s own camp raised the flag about Miami-Dade early on. They said he wasn’t devoting enough resources to it. Large radio personality there who LOVES Trump and pushed him hard. It was a case of too little, too late by Biden.

[mopinko]

56. oh ffs.

they liked being about to go home for a couple years but they love the guy who slammed the door on them?
do you know anything about immigrants? trust me. they all want to be able to go home.
to visit. to see family. to be buried in their own country.
my family is 3rd gen here, but i know how my grandparents felt about ireland.

[Phoenix61]

182. Think what you want but the Florida Cuban

population have always voted Repub. Just another example of those voting against their own best interests. Like the farmers in the Midwest. I don’t get it either but there it is.

[mopinko]

209. and how long has your family been in this country?

also, do you know any immigrants?

[tavernier]

62. Yup

No advantage with paper. But I knew that going in because the blue field of rump flags clued me in.

[judesedit]

91. Florida's only paper if you order it. I waited in line for 4.5 hours in the rain to vote for John

Kerry in Palm Beach County. When I got inside out of approximately 12-15 machines (not exact number, but a lot) only 4 were being used. It was voter suppression. I lived in that county for 30 some years. They were definitely screwing with the elections. The fact that the votes were so easily flipped on those machines was discovered. Even Howard Dean demonstrated it on national television. I started to vote absentee after that. And even doing that, it doesn't help with the gerrymandering, voter roll purging, "lost" ballots, the fake "hanging chads" debacle, and crooked governors or attorneys general, but you have a better chance of an accurate election. Forget those machines with no paper trail. There's no reason we are not given receipts when we use them except that our vote sometimes literally flips as we're voting or can be flipped en masse at a convenient time for manipulators and they don't want us to have a clue as to what they're doing. We were warned, yet continue to use the unsecured machines. They should be trashed.

[Phoenix61]

94. It's been paper every time I've ever voted.

I have no idea what you mean by ask for it.

[judesedit]

104. You have to tell your county Supervisor of Election office you want paper ballot sent for all

upcoming elections. If you don't, you won't be sent one and will have to vote in person.

[lostnfound]

216. It depends on the district. See map below

Some places are paper with optical scan only. Others are a mix of DRE and optical scan — in those places you get the paper if you ask for it.

[mopinko]

222. that's day of.

afaik, dre is the only way to do early voting.
and there was a lllllottt of early voting.

[Phoenix61]

225. Interesting map. Thanks for sharing! nt

[rainin]

135. Check this out. Something is going on in Florida

ALERT: SUSPICIOUS STATISTICAL ANOMALY IN MIAMI-DADE FLORIDA

2016 Clinton got 624,146 votes.

2020 Biden got 617,201 votes.

Trump increased by 200,000 votes over 2016 he had (333,999), now 532,409.

So *ALL OF THE 200,000* newly registered voters went for Trump

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Phoenix61]

140. There is nothing that says anything about

newly registered voters.

[madeup64]

157. Yep

Could just be voters who were registered but didn't vote in 2016. And just because someone was newly registered doesn't mean they definitely voted.

Remember even in 2018 we lost Gov and Sen races in Florida.

We are all pretty disappointed that the results were not what the polling was telling us and are in disbelief. But we should demand real concrete evidence.

[smirkymonkey]

155. That is pretty much statistically impossible.

Sure there are a lot of Cubans, but there are also a lot of northeastern Jews in Miami, who traditionally vote Dem. And there is no guarantee that every Cuban is going to vote for Trump. Very shady.

[mopinko]

167. that is exactly the thing that made me post this thread.

i tried saying i dont believe cubanos love him.
obama opened things up and trump slammed the door.
i'm 3rd generation american. i live in a hood fullllll of mexicanos who are either immigrants themselves or 1st gen. i know how immigrants feel about going home.

they want to visit. they want to see family left behind. they want to be buried there.
i'm sure a lot of them do want a macho man.
but almost all of them?
bullfuckingshit.

[questionseverything]

200. In Florida it's illegal to actually look at the paper ballots

So the results can be programmed to say anything....no chance to get caught if it is illegal to look at the paper


First election with paper for Georgia since the mid sixties and all the sudden Georgia is blue

I am so proud of Stacey abrams and her team

[crimycarny]

229. Unless there is a manual recount votes can be flipped undetected

At least if you believe Anonymous. They claim to have caught Karl Rove inserting electronic tunnels to a “man in the middle” vote tabulation server that could flip votes. Insiders involved in installing Rove’s man in the middle software in Ohio in 2004 claim to have direct knowledge of this. A prime witness who was set to testify died in a plane crash when he was piloting his Cessna. Leading up to his testimony he told others he was worried someone would tamper with his plane.

Anonymous claims to have thwarted Roves attempt to install these tunnels in 2012 in 3 states: FL, OH, and VA.

https://truthout.org/articles/anonymous-karl-rove-and-2012-election-fix/

Here is a pretty long article about how easy it is to change voting tabulations. It almost certainly happened in 2004.

https://harpers.org/archive/2012/11/how-to-rig-an-election/

“Late on Election Day, John Kerry showed an insurmountable lead in exit polling, and many considered his victory all but certified. Yet the final vote tallies in thirty states deviated widely from exit polls, with discrepancies favoring George W. Bush in all but nine. The greatest disparities were concentrated in battleground states—particularly Ohio. In one Ohio precinct, exit polls indicated that Kerry should have received 67 percent of the vote, but the certified tally gave him only 38 percent. The odds of such an unexpected outcome occurring only as a result of sampling error are 1 in 867,205,553. To quote Lou Harris, who has long been regarded as the father of modern political polling: “Ohio was as dirty an election as America has ever seen.” “

[Phoenix61]

234. I don't believe anyone who isn't willing to say who they are.

Lou can think what he wants but “I can’t be wrong” isn’t proof he isn’t wrong.

[crimycarny]

238. You mean "Anonymous"?

They are a group of Anonymous hackers and their name is “Anonymous”. Anonymous helped to ensure the Steubenville High School football players who raped a young girl at a party were prosecuted. Coach and some faculty tried to cover it up. Look up the documentary “Roll Red Roll” on Netflix.

[Ferrets are Cool]

4. Well, that works in some places, others, not so much

We have paper ballots in Alabama....nuff said.

[kurtcagle]

15. Alabama is flat out suppression. However ...

I'd also argue that I think AL may actually turn blue within a decade. Huntsville is becoming a major commercial space hub, and it's also getting a lot of high tech work for the Feds (I know of several FBI based projects there, for instance). Research Triangle in NC is similar, and Atlanta is both a media and aerospace hub.

[Ferrets are Cool]

16. I would love to be alive to see it happen

[mopinko]

32. you can still hack tabulators.

eta- they re extremely simple machines.
ga did that 'update' monday. you dont do that. ask anyone in IT.

[halobeam]

5. 100% agreed. Add a russian or two.

[Cetacea]

147. Notice that nothing is being said abaout Russia. DNI ordered it so.

[halobeam]

215. I sure did notice! I kept screaming it at the TV .... Polls aren't THAT wrong,... RUSSIA!

[Freethinker65]

9. Vote on paper. It is verifiable and harder to manipulate.

[mopinko]

28. even if it takes longer to count.

[CreekDog]

142. i prefer to vote on paper and do, but California's in person vote has been more left leaning

than the paper ballot dominated mail-in vote.

this year is different, but all these years, those paper votes have been much more conservative.

so there's that.

[Freethinker65]

172. Exactly. Paper ballots make it harder for manipulation by either side.

They are verifiable for both sides.

We need election integrity.

[crimycarny]

237. But you need to tabulate manually

Florida has paper ballots but the voting tabulation machines can be hacked to flip votes. Unless there is some sort of manual recount there is no way to detect vote flipping.

Let the electric tabulations give “tentative” results so people have an idea of who won, but require a manual tabulation before certified. If hackers know results will be tabulated manually they ma6 be dissuaded from flipping votes as it will be discovered.

[Doodley]

11. Why do you think Trump was so outspoken about being against postal votes?

[LymphocyteLover]

20. exactly

he did flip out when Dems proposed using mail in ballot because of the pandemic

[mtmirror]

36. Not to mention, Senate Republicans blocked an election security bill

That would have provided provided a paper trail for electronic voting, not to mention also banned voting machines being produced in foreign countries. To me this was highly suspicious - why would you not want either of those things? You'd think not only would they not have blocked it, but the vote would have been unanimous.

[mopinko]

68. bingo

not a philosophical disagreement.
it fucked w an actual plan.

[LymphocyteLover]

73. ALSO they blocked more money for the Post office

[JudyM]

195. THIS.

MSM should be asking McConnell why he blocked it since he is touting his belief in accurate vote counts.

[Blue Owl]

12. K&R

Worthy of investigation IMO

[Phoenix61]

14. The sad fact is there are a lot of hate filled

people who got someone just like them and showed up in droves to vote for him. I wish it was cheating but it’s not. We’ve got work to do and it’s going to be a lot harder than replacing some voting machines.

[kurtcagle]

24. There was a lot of that perhaps

but I still think the discrepancies in polling and results in many places (largely in states controlled by Republicans) argue that the machines had a significant impact. It also changes the dynamic if you look upon these states as filled by imbeciles (granted, there's a lot of that too, but what you see in blue states was that polling was actually quite accurate). It's easier to say that it was a problem with the polls, but I run a site dedicated to data analytics. When the polls are consistent, with one another but miss badly from the estimates on races in a systematic way, this is an issue with how the election was run.

[mopinko]

29. thank you.

i've been saying this for 2 days.
all ppl want to do is bash the voters.

[Phoenix61]

33. Exactly how would that occur?

There are completely different systems in each state. Florida has paper and the polls were incredibly off. Polling is based on getting an accurate sample that represents actual voters and they just aren’t doing it.

[mopinko]

44. there are lots of way to cheat, and none of them are hard.

is early voting in fla paper?
i bet not. it doesnt work.
you need too many ballot configurations. most places i know of, ev is touch screen.

[Phoenix61]

52. Yes it is. nt

[mopinko]

179. dude. i live in chicago. trust me. it ain't hard.

[Phoenix61]

183. I'm not a dude. It really doesn't matter where you live.

Throwing out accusations that there is something nefarious going on because the pre-election polls were off is not helpful. You have yet to offer any proof.

[mopinko]

210. now where would i get proof?

my ex used to accuse me of being a freelance fbi agent, but i still aint got no badge.
i got logic, and i got probable cause.
you? you got a hard head.

[questionseverything]

211. here is an explanation for florida from a former supervisor of elections

https://bradblog.com/?p=13612

Down in the critical battleground of Florida, as my guest explains today, voters may never even know if the election is stolen from them. That guest today is the legendary, former 28-year Supervisor of Elections in Leon County (Tallahassee), Florida, ION SANCHO, who was so well-respected by his peers on both the right and left he was appointed to oversee the eventually-aborted year 2000 recount between Al Gore and George W. Bush in the Sunshine State.

On Friday, Sancho sent an urgent letter [PDF] to the Supervisors of Elections in 47 of Florida's 67 counties which use wireless cellular modems to transmit precinct election results to county headquarters after the close of polls on Election Night. The letter warns that those modems --- and the Internet connections to them at the counties' central tabulators --- can be easily hacked "from anywhere in the world." If they are, he explains on today's program, it's very likely that such a hack, changing election results, would never be noticed by election officials.

"The issue is that we’re using equipment that is not secure," Sancho tells me. "To quote Sen. Marco Rubio, 'Many Florida election officials are arrogant over their belief that they can’t be touched, that they are secure.' And this is a state that does not compare the numbers that we generate on those electrical optical scanners to the actual, physical votes on the piece of paper. We’re completely dependent upon those electronic totals on Election Night."

Manual examination of hand-marked paper ballots in Florida, to make sure the reported computer tabulation was correct, is prohibited by state law. Sancho details his concerns about those modems --- which are not federally certified for use in elections --- and how the state's election officials can avoid the threat posed by this very serious vulnerability to the state's election infrastructure. Making matters worse, he notes, "We do not audit the paper ballots to confirm that the election totals are correct. And that’s a huge, huge problem – not just in Florida, but everywhere in the country."

"Most of the election officials were not even aware that their systems were connected [to the Internet], because the vendor [in this case, ES&S, the nation's largest] never told them. You’re almost 100% dependent upon the vendor for the information about your system. So our most public process – our elections process, which is public – really are controlled by private entities."

[mopinko]

25. i didnt say nobody voted for him.

but polls dont miss it be thaaaaat much.
cheating.

[Phoenix61]

34. How exactly are "they" cheating? nt

[mopinko]

37. register phony voters, hack touchscreens, hack tabulators.

none of that shit is even hard.
when the polls are 'off' that much, the vote count is not to be trusted.

[Phoenix61]

40. Actually all that "shit" is hard.

Much more likely what was supposed to be a sample that accurately represented voters didn’t. The smaller the sample size the greater the chance for error. They picked the sample size based on how many they thought would vote and that number was definitely not accurate.

[mopinko]

51. no. it isnt.

even w paper. creating phony voters and hacking tabulators is.not.that.hard.

pollsters ALL upped their game after 16.

[Phoenix61]

59. Ok. So there are phony voters on the polling books

That vote has to show up in the right data set. There are duplicate files at several stages to ensure they are not compromised. It really isn’t that easy. Much harder to accurately predict what people will do. The more emotionally charged the decision, the harder it gets.

[mopinko]

64. no. there arent.

you register, you show phony id, you vote.
there is no redundant shit.

[Phoenix61]

77. How many fake people? Going to need quite a

few because you don’t want the same person voting at the same place too many times. Going to need good fakes id’s for all of them. And, most importantly, they all have to keep their mouths shut. Every single person involved can’t tell anyone.

[crimycarny]

228. No, it's not

https://www.salon.com/2012/11/20/did_anonymous_stop_rove_stealing_the_election/

https://washingtonspectator.org/did-an-election-day-lawsuit-stop-karl-roves-vote-rigging-scheme-in-ohio/

https://truthout.org/articles/anonymous-karl-rove-and-2012-election-fix/

If what anonymous claims is true, Karl Rove had installed some sort of man in the middle to change votes in 3 states in 2012, including FL. Anonymous claims the inserted a firewall to prevent this.

There have been insider witnesses to Rove successfully flipping votes in 2004 in Ohio with a “man in the middle” attack. Kerry ahead 6% before voting tabulation server “crashed” at 11:14 pm. When it came up 60 seconds later, votes in remaining counties started going rapidly to Bush. Counties that Gore won by massive margins, Kerry was suddenly underperforming by 30 points.

Fast forward to 2012 and same voting tabulation computer crashes shortly after 11 pm. Computer comes back up but no vote flipping. Karl Rove looks stunned and has his infamous hissy fit on FOX. This is what Anonymous claims to have prevented, the crash allowing voting tabulation being diverted to man in the middle computer.

But we don’t want to believe this is happening so no investigation. I can only hope a whistleblower comes forward.

[DENVERPOPS]

127. Exactly

hack touchscreens, hack tabulators and compilers

Polls used to match EXACTLY what was going to take place until suddenly, in 2000, they weren't.

When the head of Diebold, IN PUBLIC stated to RepubliCONs that he would deliver the win to Bush, he and his company should have been immediately investigated along with all his companies electronic screen voting machines.......same happened in 2004, maybe even worse or at least more sophisticated........

Amazing that they are using the same machines and the votes on them are not anywhere near matching the polling numbers....?????

[smirkymonkey]

156. +1000

[crimycarny]

235. How do you know it's not if there is no audit?

Many countries, including Germany, got rid of electronic voting machines due to the risk of manipulation of votes.

[TwilightZone]

18. Not really.

Plenty of states with paper ballots went to Trump, and we're winning several states with machines, including GA.

https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state

We should probably acknowledge that tens of millions of people in this country think an unhinged nutjob is just fine as POTUS.

[mopinko]

26. i didnt say nobody voted for him.

but polls being off by as much as 20% is a clue.

[Phoenix61]

42. Thank you.

I wish it was cheating. Easier to fix than dragging 66 million plus kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

[grantcart]

55. Perhaps the OP is arguing causality not correlation

The screens are driving a certain percentage of Americans crazy.

[notinkansas]

153. Biden was behind in Georgia

until they started counting the mail-in paper ballots.

[questionseverything]

202. Georgia has a machine that produces a paper ballot

It replaced the paperless dre machines

So for the first time since the mid sixties Georgia had paper to count and goes blue

So that example doesn’t work

[Timewas]

19. The reason

Why they were against mail in

[58Sunliner]

47. Paper trail too.

[phylny]

21. I believe this.

I've written this several places already here tonight, but Virginia became solidly Blue once we went to paper ballots that were fed into a machine. There are random audits and the the paper backup if needed.

[Phoenix61]

35. Same system Florida uses and we aren't going blue. nt

[58Sunliner]

58. What they were concerned with in Fla was data storage-

and reporting, that is sent via wifi and hackable. The issues have been how the votes are counted and who counts them. Remember Ga wiped their election server rather than allow an audit?

[Phoenix61]

65. Hacking a data stream to read it is one thing

Changing it is a much harder proposition. They are encrypted files.

[58Sunliner]

70. And Russian hackers are really good.

And I bet it would help if you had the software already. But for a good hacker, not necessary.

[mopinko]

72. unless you have someone on the inside.

wake up and smell the coffee.
the one thing they cant mess w is the polls.

[Phoenix61]

78. It's a conspiracy theory that ranks right up

their with the fraud alleged with mail in ballots.

[mopinko]

97. ok. you've said your piece.

i'm done w you.

[crimycarny]

236. Our OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES say our voting systems have been hacked

If Phoenix61 is so adamant cheating is “too hard” or “can’t happen”, then surely he/she isn’t against manually tabulating the votes to make sure. Karl Rove himself bragged to a close associate how easy it is to flip votes.

What in the world is wrong with double-checking with manual tabulations to make sure they match the electronic tabulation? If Trump won FL fair and square, fine. But I want reassurance he did.

[unitedwethrive]

22. Yes! If Biden does what Obama did, and looks into any concern that receives 200K signatures,

we should make sure that they look into this. And spend money on paper ballots in every state!

[yellowdogintexas]

54. paper ballots probably are available in every state; we always had them

on election day but not during early voting.

With our county wide voting centers and touch screen selector which prints a ballot for scanning we can now have paper backup all the way through.

[mopinko]

173. still lots of ways to cheat.

i'm from cook county. we cheated back in the day.
old man daley prolly did put jfk in the white house. he was a master.

the thing to look for is this- look at the last reporting precincts. are they outliers?
that's what daley did. there were certain wards- the river wards. run by the mob.
they would wait till the polls closed, and they got reports from elsewhere. then they knew how many votes they needed.
they would go through the poll books, issue ballots to 'ppl' who didnt show up, and stuff the boxes.
in a close election they were always- waiting for the river wards.
those of a suspicious bent would say- he's holding up the river wards. most ppl knew what that meant.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

27. Touchscreens Are The Reason I've Voted Absentee Since 2004

When Ohio's Secretary of State pulled his shenanigans and stole Ohio for Bush, I vowed never to vote without a paper trail again.

This is something I alluded to earlier. Instead of asking, "Why were the polls so wrong?" maybe we should be asking, "Were the polls RIGHT, but the touchscreen voting machines were hacked?"

[mopinko]

30. yeah, it's been a slogan around here since '04

voter verified paper ballots.

but i've been saying this for 2 days, and all i get is- the polls were wrong and the voters are idiots.

[KS Toronado]

82. The polls were correct, voting machines and ballot counting machines were hacked.

Nobody predicted a 51% to 48% presidential race. Plus news stories of certain groups of repugs planning
on voting for Biden, how in the hell did he get more votes/voters than 2016? And the polls were fairly
accurate in blue states but not red states? But we have no worries about this as Joe & Kamala along
with most congressmen know something was amiss and will start an investigation first of the year. Be
nice to discover Moscow Mitch was in the center of it and gets some jail time.

[RDANGELO]

38. put it in a drop box , not the mail.

[yellowdogintexas]

46. not every state has drop boxes

see: Texas.

[Hekate]

41. Mail-in ballots -- paper trail -- Biden

[yellowdogintexas]

45. We use touch screens to make selection, then the ballot is printed

at the machine. Next person comes along, keys in the access code and it brings up a ballot which may be from another part of the county . Our touch screen selector has no memory.
After you are sure your choices are correct, you print your ballot and if it doesn't look right you can have it spoiled and do it all over again. Anyway you take the printed ballot to the scanner and the scanner counts the votes. 100% paper backup.

The best part is that you don't have to worry about stray ink marks or coloring outside the box confusing the scanner so it rejects the ballot.

We had to get a system like this in order for the Sec of State to approve our county for voting centers. Now we can vote anywhere in the county on Election Day 300 locations.

[live love laugh]

63. I still don't believe that these scanned ballots are tamper proof.

I still have nightmares about 2000/2004.

[mopinko]

107. if audits arent robust, it is easy to cheat.

my ex was the architect of the chgo board options exchange system.
every day, every transaction was reconciled at the end of the day.
and the sec actually checked those totals and did robust audits.

THAT is what it takes. but for elections? we audit about 10%.

[live love laugh]

177. That's terrible. Even if one or two states were randomly audited

100% it would point to the validity of the overall result and provide a margin of error.

[Susan Calvin]

141. Scanned ballots are not tamper-proof.

Audits, like Moe Pinko said.

[JCMach1]

49. Specifically ES&S

The DS200 uses a wireless connection to transmit these results via cell towers to a simple file-transfer server that is connected to the internet behind a firewall.

For security reasons, the SFTP server and firewall are supposed to be connected to the internet for only a couple of minutes before an election to test the transmission, and then for long enough after an election to send the vote totals.

But researchers found some of the systems stayed connected to the internet for months at a time, and year-round for others, making them vulnerable to hackers.

And guess where? Critical battleground states, including seven Florida counties, nine Wisconsin counties and four Michigan counties. Miami-Dade, the most populous in the state, was one... https://www.govtech.com/security/Experts-Florida-Voting-Machines-Ripe-for-Foreign-Hackers.html

[mopinko]

61. yup.

and even tabulators CAN be hacked. or modems set up to change numbers in that couple minutes that they are connected.
GA did an 'update' the day before the election. no.one.on.IT.does.that.

[JCMach1]

69. I don't think the polls were that far off... they can't account for the cheating

USPS

AND

Very specific localized hacking... especially ES&S machines in Florida and Texas

[ecstatic]

50. Yep. We're having a runoff in GA for 2 Senate seats. Time to request PAPER ballots!

It's clear that that's the only reason why trump was stopped in his tracks.

It'll be interesting to see if trump can really call for recounts in states that he cheated in. lol.

[mopinko]

76. time to demand it.

[rockfordfile]

53. I agree

[live love laugh]

57. It's also why accurate exit polling doesn't match. nt

[sarcasmo]

60. Yep, you can't hack paper ballots.

[58Sunliner]

67. It's about data management, storage, and WIFI. All of which can be hacked.

Do they actually re-enter ballots for an audit? Don't think so-they rely upon the data previously entered.

[mopinko]

71. they do a 'random' sample.

i watched an audit in a red county here back in 06.
little errors all day. 'not enough to alter results', so it didnt trigger a full recount.
but nobody believed the precincts were random.
and that was just ballots.
there was at least 1 precinct that had more voters than residents. that doesnt get checked.

[58Sunliner]

74. And it does not take much to steal it. Thanks for the post.

[Susan Calvin]

132. There should be no such thing as a voting machine connected to the

Internet. Counted at the precinct level, results posted on the door before the ballots leave, webcams everywhere. Now there's a good use of a computer.

[mopinko]

166. i tried hard to tell ppl to audit their own precincts. take a pic of the poll tape on the door.

compare it to the boe reports.
those threads sank hard.

[58Sunliner]

175. Agreed. Security experts were telling them to remove the modems.

I'm going to bet it didn't happen. It's by design.

[orleans]

75. agree with everything you said in this thread

been thinking the same thing too.

[brooklynite]

79. Texas is paper ballots...but why ruin a lazy conspiracy theory?

[Susan Calvin]

128. You have got to be kidding.

My county has been voting on The paperless wonders since the help America vote Act. I think they may have gotten machines with paper trail, but I carried in my paper ballot in person.

[Cetacea]

151. Simple. If Trump accuses dems of rigging the election and he projects everything he himself does...

but it'd more fun to blame various democratic groups.

[Susan Calvin]

129. So I don't know what happened between the it help America vote Act,

And maybe now, I'm not sure, but I am reasonably sure it was a lot of hanky-panky. I don't trust a damn thing without a paper trail. And I teach computer science.

[Susan Calvin]

130. Like I said, your information is out of date.

We voted on the paperless wonders since the help America vote act until maybe this year.

[questionseverything]

213. here you are to belittle any citizen thinking elections should be transparent...right on time

Down in the critical battleground of Florida, as my guest explains today, voters may never even know if the election is stolen from them. That guest today is the legendary, former 28-year Supervisor of Elections in Leon County (Tallahassee), Florida, ION SANCHO, who was so well-respected by his peers on both the right and left he was appointed to oversee the eventually-aborted year 2000 recount between Al Gore and George W. Bush in the Sunshine State.

On Friday, Sancho sent an urgent letter [PDF] to the Supervisors of Elections in 47 of Florida's 67 counties which use wireless cellular modems to transmit precinct election results to county headquarters after the close of polls on Election Night. The letter warns that those modems --- and the Internet connections to them at the counties' central tabulators --- can be easily hacked "from anywhere in the world." If they are, he explains on today's program, it's very likely that such a hack, changing election results, would never be noticed by election officials.

"The issue is that we’re using equipment that is not secure," Sancho tells me. "To quote Sen. Marco Rubio, 'Many Florida election officials are arrogant over their belief that they can’t be touched, that they are secure.' And this is a state that does not compare the numbers that we generate on those electrical optical scanners to the actual, physical votes on the piece of paper. We’re completely dependent upon those electronic totals on Election Night."

Manual examination of hand-marked paper ballots in Florida, to make sure the reported computer tabulation was correct, is prohibited by state law. Sancho details his concerns about those modems --- which are not federally certified for use in elections --- and how the state's election officials can avoid the threat posed by this very serious vulnerability to the state's election infrastructure. Making matters worse, he notes, "We do not audit the paper ballots to confirm that the election totals are correct. And that’s a huge, huge problem – not just in Florida, but everywhere in the country."

"Most of the election officials were not even aware that their systems were connected [to the Internet], because the vendor [in this case, ES&S, the nation's largest] never told them. You’re almost 100% dependent upon the vendor for the information about your system. So our most public process – our elections process, which is public – really are controlled by private entities."


https://bradblog.com/?p=13612

[love_katz]

80. I think that the answer is even more simple.

Whatever the Republiturds accuse the Democrats of, THAT is what the Republiturds are doing. Projection and then gas lighting when we call them on it. That's it, in a nutshell.

[mopinko]

85. then explain the polls. .

they cant hack those.
but go ahead and assume the ppl are stupid if it makes you feel better.

[love_katz]

93. I never said that the people are stupid.

My point was that the Republiturds are trying to steal the election, any way that they can. And then they accuse Democrats of doing what they are doing. You missed my point entirely.

[mopinko]

171. ah sorry

this all went so fast.

[mopinko]

81. jesus. i'm so glad ppl can finally hear me.

i have been saying this shit for 2 days. i was beginning to think i was invisible.

[Susan Calvin]

95. I've been saying this

Since the so-called help America vote Act.

[iluvtennis]

83. I totally agree we need paper ballots until sufficient election security is in place. nt

[Susan Calvin]

89. There is not enough election security.

If you are doing it with no paper trail. Period.

[CreekDog]

145. i agree, but it's a long leap from saying that to saying votes are being changed

that's all i'm saying.

[Susan Calvin]

84. HAVA was a scam

Poor old Rush Holt was taken in. Bev Harris was right in spite of what she did to one of her employees. I knew it from the start. And I fought it from the start, not that it did a great deal of good.

[Susan Calvin]

86. I used to do a day on the election reform news here before it died.

I was actually the last one. I did it once a week on my dial-up connection until I decided nobody was listening.

[Susan Calvin]

87. Under a different username. nt

[mopinko]

88. yup.

they did a great job of painting her as a kook.
but the thing about cassandra that ppl forget- she was right.

[Susan Calvin]

90. I teach computer science.

So I knew what it was from the start. So did all the other computer science people that nobody listen to.

[Susan Calvin]

92. Any of my students,

Well maybe not any, but the top half, could have hacked what they came out with. It was a plan. Do you remember the diebold machines where the password was hard-coded and it was 1111?

[mopinko]

96. and tabulators that we used here in cook co are over 20 yrs old.

about as sophisticated as a commodre 64.

my ex was vp of architecture at cboe. i know that accurate, stable and armored systems CAN be built. but they arent cheap.

[Susan Calvin]

101. I trust the Commodore 64,

Which was my first computer, I had an Amber monitor and a disk rather than tape drive and and I forget how many pin printer but was top of the line at the time, programmed by somebody with Integrity, more than I trust what was foisted on us by the help America vote Act. And I'd still want a paper trail.

[mopinko]

170. mine, too.

i used it to dial up a mainframe at loyola, where my hubs worked as a student in the computer labs.
had a terminal emulator and a 1500 baud modem. a cradle for the phone handset.
i was working to start a non-profit, and taught myself script.
we needed printing. so i wrote the stuff up, and when no one was looking, they printed it for us.

later my kids did the first e-learning on it. sesame street go round.

i have a machine w all the peripherals sitting here. you want it?

[Susan Calvin]

99. When our County was considering what voting machines to use,

They let people come try them out and they let them vote on which one they wanted. Guess how the vote was taken? Pencil and paper. Guess which one the powers that be picked. The one with no paper trail whatsoever. Even back then there was one available with a paper trail and the people voted overwhelmingly for that one. So much for asking our opinion.

[mopinko]

180. unfuckingbelievable

who got the kick backs?
or were the stolen seats reward enough?

[Susan Calvin]

189. Exactly. nt

[CreekDog]

146. Bev Harris did a great job of painting herself as a kook too

[Politicub]

98. Georgia changed from black box voting to using a touch-screen system that

creates a paper ballot for this election.

There is finally a paper trail from the new voting machines.

And, quelle suprise, the count is more equitable.

[mopinko]

100. even so. a bright 10 yo

can write a program that prints one thing and counts another.
it does make it harder, tho. but if the audits arent robust, it doesnt matter.

[Susan Calvin]

103. Ain't that the simple truth.

People who don't know computers trust computers way too much. It ain't the computers, it's who programs them.

[mopinko]

114. yup

it smelled from the start that diebold made perfectly reliable atm's but couldnt make a voting machine that wasnt 'glitzy' af.

[miyazaki]

154. You got that right. nt

[Politicub]

106. It's much better than what we had

And I would have voted by mail should my ballot have shown up. My husband and neighbor received theirs, but I didn’t.

[Susan Calvin]

111. Much better than what you had?

I can only think that what you had must have been really awful. And I'd like to know much better in what way. Security-wise, computers without a paper trail? Hollow laugh.

[Politicub]

115. What we had for the past 20 years was a touchscreen system with no paper trail.

Now a ballot is produced on paper.

[Susan Calvin]

119. Yes yes yes.

And some kind of guarantee that it was recorded correctly. I will admit it's hard to reconcile that with Anonymous voting.

[CreekDog]

102. this accusation without evidence isn't helpful

it's actually the opposite.

but then again, you thought there was a conspiracy against you by your single mom tenant and the City of Chicago code enforcement for trying to actually enforce the rules that everyone needs to follow on you as well. the nerve!

yeah they could be stealing it but what's the point of the accusation, anyone can say words, i have the second best words (because you know who has the best words). but without evidence they're just words.

nobody is swayed. so get that evidence then talk to us.

[Susan Calvin]

108. Huh?

There's plenty of evidence, going back years. Try Googling Rob Georgia. Or reading Black Box voting. Or following Greg Palast. Although the computer stuff isn't the only thing he covers

[CreekDog]

118. Greg Palast didn't allege that votes were stolen or changed on electronic machines

it kinda helps if you know more about the source of your info than the person you're arguing with.

bring that evidence, i wanna see it, but you dont even realize you aren't referring to vote changing or vote stealing by electronic machines.

you don't even remember what Palast wrote.

yes, i vote on paper, well i tried to computer once during a primary to see how it worked, it wasn't bad, there was a paper printout too. but jeez, take some responsibility for your words and have evidence behind them.

sheesh.

[Susan Calvin]

121. I do remember what palast wrote.

I have his books. And I think this is quibbling. He knows more about election stealing than any widely read author I am aware of.

[Susan Calvin]

122. You don't know anything much about computers,

You don't know how easy it is to make them lie. End of story.

[CreekDog]

131. ah, you can make computers lie, therefore the election that Biden is winning is being stolen

oh and i was programming at age 10, and at all levels of school and in college and was a network adminstrator after that.

they taught us how to program skynet to send terminators back to 2020 to flip the election to Trump, disguising it as showing Biden catching up and overtaking him in enough states to defeat Trump.

i mean wow.

[Susan Calvin]

133. Then you know.

I have nothing else to say. I would block you except I'm interested in what garbage you blather. As long as it amuses me

[Susan Calvin]

134. Rereading your post maybe you don't know.

If you don't, then you really don't understand computers, I have to say. Nor people.

[Susan Calvin]

137. Nah, I'm blocking you.

I'm old and don't need this.

[Susan Calvin]

124. And I would remind you,

That I mentioned other sources. Do you know anything about them?

[Susan Calvin]

125. Sheesh yourself. nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

105. Cutting to immediate chase. Are PA GA AZ & NV all touch?

[mopinko]

109. i dont know the percentage, but

the mail in paper ballots in all those states are breaking HARD for biden.
overwhelming day of.

[CreekDog]

138. you dont know the percentage because you just don't know at all

you think something is happening but instead of going and researching your idea and then coming back to us with evidence, you just blab it on DU as if that does any good whatsoever.

so sick of this shit.

grow up and stop undermining Biden in an election he's gonna win.

[crickets]

143. I don't know about PA AZ & NV but GA has touchscreens,

and that's always been a problem since we got them.

To make matters worse, Kemp in 2018 and the current SoS in 2019 have added to the joy by kicking voters off the rolls by the thousands. The fact that GA is still going to turn blue is amazing, not because it's GA in the deep South with all its baggage, but because GA has changed to the point it's blue enough that even a combination of the usual tricks are unable to hide it any more.

Georgia likely removed nearly 200k from voter rolls wrongfully, report says - SEP 2020
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/georgia-voter-rolls-report/index.html

The margin for Biden is below well 200K right now. If the expunged voters had been allowed to vote, many of them might not have, but enough could have that it's likely GA would already would be in the Biden column.

The strategy is never just one thing now. It's breaking the USPS to slow down ballot delivery, tamping down the vote by making it difficult to register, stringent rules (IDs, signatures, envelopes) for accepting ballots, throwing people off the rolls, limited access to polling places w/horrendously long lines, and internet accessible electoral computer systems, suing before the election over some silly detail, suing after the election for another silly detail, etc.

Every state is a little different, but when tallies are compared down the road, the hand counted paper votes will likely match the polling data more or less, in spite of all of the tricks. The computer touch screen tallies often won't. jmo.

[ancianita]

110. Now that we've beta tested it, I think we should adopt it wholesale for all future elections.

And make Congress resume full responsibility for the United States Postal Service -- and never outsource it again.

[Susan Calvin]

113. Boy do I agree with that.

The post office is in the Constitution. Nothing about Outsourcing it. Along with my Biden sign I have a save the USPS sign in my yard.

[judesedit]

112. There have been times a candidate got more votes than were voters

Can you explain that? I can. Electronic voting machine vote manipulation.

[mopinko]

116. yup.

even more registered voters than the census showed in some precincts in a red county near me.

[mopinko]

117. ok kids. imma go to bed now.

talk among yourselves.

[Susan Calvin]

120. Good night.

Thank you so much for bringing this up. It's still a major issue in my humble opinion.

[stopdiggin]

126. think I'll wait for some real analysis

plenty of theories floating around these days. and most of them are just random mutterings.

[mopinko]

168. the analysis we need it for the fbi to impound machines.

till then, i dont trust them.
and as you can see, most ppl here dont either.
and why should we?

[stopdiggin]

190. there're a lot of people on the internet

that believe in Q-Anon, faith healing -- and "Sharpie-gate" is also trending hard.
Which goes a way toward explaining why "a lot of people believe" -- doesn't cut a lot of ice with me.

I am, however, open to real facts, real evidence and real science -- and anyone is welcome to make their argument to me using those tools. So -- not closed to any argument, but it's going to take more than a thread on DU with a lot of posters saying "me too!"

"fbi to impound machines"

You get to work on that, OK? Let me know what you find.
----- -----

[mopinko]

192. well, how many states was cheato leading they started counting the mail in PAPER ballots?

ought to be proof enough.

[stopdiggin]

193. if that's your argument

and you're happy with it ...
----- -----

[mopinko]

194. probable cause.

that is all that is needed to start impounding machines.

[live love laugh]

206. The FBI has to be disinfected after Trump* leaves before they can do anything. nt

[CreekDog]

136. then show us an example of them stealing it

you're so convinced. show us what has proven it to you.

are you saying Biden isn't legitimately winning all these states or on track to?

[questionseverything]

214. I believe she is saying he probably is winning by more

Than what is reported.

I joined du years ago to announce my friend richard charnins book

He was a math geek and basically his work showed that it was nearly always the repubs that benefited when someone won past the moe

I think more transparency is the answer

But for now we have to beat them so bad there is no doubt

I believe joe has done that!

[diva77]

144. It's worse than that since the optical scanners for the handmarked paper ballots can also have

malicious code. The only thing better than the touchscreens or deceptive BMDs is that the handmarked paper ballots are transparent in the event of a hand recount.

Presidential & Senate races were polling as a clear victory way more than the results being declared.

[speaknow]

148. close look

All the States that POS screwed not helping
with the Virus have voted for Biden. Up next
is PA. Only thing left is for him to turn out
the lights and GET OUT of our house!

[Aussie105]

149. If you have any evidence

please pass it on to the relevant authorities.

But a 'I suspect' or 'I think' won't get you very far.

Each state, each county has a legal obligation to check that their voting methods give accurate results.
You will need to trust them.

Until you have evidence, you are just throwing out conspiracy theories.

[mopinko]

169. thanks for your concern.

the people have to demand proof that it isnt hacked. that's where the burden lies.
i'm trying to get that going at least here.

[questionseverything]

203. No we don't need to "trust" a vote counting company

They must prove to us the results they spit out are accurate

Americans don’t have to trust anything but our own eyes

[BadGimp]

150. I've been saying it since HAVA post the 2000 election.

[AdamGG]

152. That has to be how Susan Collins wins by 8 points

She was universally behind in all the polls or at best within a couple points. I don't think the pollsters are all off base in certain places when they are on the money correct with the same methodology in others.

And no one in the mainstream media has the balls to talk about this as a possible explanation. Nate Silver will spend hours talking about polling errors and never touch on the reasonable possibility that the polling was accurate and it's the reported results that are not.

[smirkymonkey]

159. That win shocked me as well.

There is something very shady going on in Maine. Sara Gideon should have won easily. I am not buying the Collins victory at all.

[Grasswire2]

158. been screaming this for several years now.

The gold standard is HAND MARKED PAPER BALLOTS, VOTER VERIFIABLE, with STRONG AUDIT TRAIL, BALLOT SECURITY, NO WI FI TRANSMISSION, NO OPTICAL SCANNING.

The fricking Georgia vendor UPLOADED some unknown ware on election day!! And it fritzed out machines.

Follow @jennycohn1 for the best election security info (twitter).

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

162. Yep. Andy Stephenson.

At one time, back in 2002-2004, democratic underground even had a user compiled Black Box Voting Library, a compilation of hundreds, maybe thousands, of links discussing the evils of electronic voting.

Dennis Kucinich and a few other Democrats were attacking electronic voting and explaining their potential, possibly purpose, for committing fraud. The issue was dismissed by both the Republican and Democratic political establishment, and since then has been swept under the rug - out of sight, out of mind.

Kucinich Wages Campaign Against Electronic Voting

"Kucinich, who has been sounding warning alarms regarding electronic voting systems since he began his campaign last year, today called on federal, state and local election officials 'to suspend immediately the implementation of any voting systems that do not provide a 100 percent reliable paper-trail back-up to corroborate results.' "

The message notes that the eight-member California Voting Systems and Procedures Panel has just banned 15,000 electronic voting machines in four counties from use in the November election because of glitches in the March primary election.

The banned machines include those made by Diebold Election Systems, whose CEO, Walden O'Dell, is a big supporter of George W. Bush.

O'Dell, Kucinich notes, attended a meeting for wealthy donors at Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, last year, and shortly thereafter wrote a fund-raising letter that said he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/sally-kalson/2004/04/28/Kucinich-wages-campaign-against-electronic-voting/stories/200404280132

Paper Ballots, hand counted, video monitored.

Federal Elections in Canada use hand counted paper ballots. The United States should do this as well. Accuracy, transparency, and fairness supersede all else when counting votes, including the amount of time it takes to count the votes.

[mopinko]

174. and when bush stole ohio, dennis hid under his desk.

i never liked him, but after that election, he was not heard from for days.
will pitt was his campaign manager. he all but beat the snot out of him to get him to say something, but no.

[PCIntern]

163. Here:

[mopinko]

165. and ppl think they havent gotten worse why?

nobody lost their office, nobody went to jail, and no machines were ever examined by fbi.
why would they?

[treestar]

164. I noticed a change in Delaware

The touchscreen is there but it prints it out on paper. Before you just went in and pushed the buttons. Now they hand you a paper ballot which you put into the machine. You use the touchscreen and then the results print on the paper. You can look at it and see your votes on paper and then push the button and the piece of paper goes somewhere. So I think that is a change to a more secure system.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

176. Hacking Democracy: 2006 documentary

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy

[mopinko]

178. thank you. the burden of proof isnt on us. it's on them.

[ElementaryPenguin]

181. Exactly!

We were only able to oust Trump because of mail-in ballots - which is why he feared them so!!!!

Electronic voting has to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BComplex]

184. Oh! I get it big time! Here in NC, we have paper ballots run through tabulators.

The results in my county are so friggin' far off the mark, it's not even funny! It's also the hackable/programmable tabulators that are a problem!

[mopinko]

186. yup.

i watched an audit in '06 in a red county near me.
almost every precinct had at least a couple anomalies. 'not enough to change results'
nobody believed the precincts were chosen at random.
they know damn well which ones WOULD require a full recount.

[AmBlue]

185. Hand counted paper ballots!!

Or barring that, we need random sampling of precincts from election day to compare hand counts to scanner counts, to verify the software is doing it's job accurately!!

There is too much room for hackery with electronic counting. Right now, the counting is being done by proprietary software, in the dark bowels of computers. So, you are exactly right.

We fought hard to get rid of touchscreen voting machines in Florida. But many states still have them.. and for states that do have paper, we are not getting the full benefit of paper ballots if we cannot audit them. Or watch them be counted.

[Qutzupalotl]

188. Yes, but also look at registrations. They are vulnerable to alteration,

which invalidates votes or prevents people from voting. In 2016 Detroit folks were turned away on election day because of registration problems. I think that cost us Michigan.

It’s relatively easy to alter registrations. Touchscreens are also vulnerable, but it’s a bit harder. Security officials say there’s “no evidence of votes being changed,” which is quite a lot of parsing; it’s possible votes were changed and they just don’t have evidence of it. But they do point to registrations as a soft target.

Mail-in ballots sidestep this attack on our elections. Only registered voters can get a ballot, so it can’t be then thrown out for registration discrepancies. You have time to alert officials if you don’t receive a ballot by a certain date. Even despite DeJoy’s fuckery, I think early voting and mail-in ballots saved the day.

[mopinko]

191. we need to dog them.

and run them to ground w their bullshit.

[Amaryllis]

196. Had it not been for COVID driving people to paper ballots, i think we would have lost.

[mopinko]

197. yup.

let's not ever forget this lesson.
but next time, lets get more counters.

[Amaryllis]

198. We have ALL VBM in Oregon and we start counting a week before the election. Did you notice how

OR, WA and CA went up immediately on election night at 8 PT? They dont need more counters, they just need to get the laws changed so they dont need to wait till election day to start counting.

[voteearlyvoteoften]

199. 1000% nt

[DFW]

201. "Touch screen, touch screen, you leave no paper trail...."

Song #9: "It's a good thing that you can never fail...."

https://www.qobuz.com/be-nl/album/sing-along-with-the-democrats-the-freedom-toast/onj34abekpbzb

If you have spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/1AiKVafaywAZMFIiRYqxB1?highlight=spotify:track okNMcVAl6MzD9y8Bb8ysI#login

Actually from 2005 about the 2004 election, but not much has changed since then.

[mopinko]

204. .

thx

[Mr. Sparkle]

205. Europe has abandoned plans to use voting machines as they are too unreliable and hack prone.

[Tribetime]

207. Its seems like about 8 % avg nationwide of polling

in OH MI PA AND WI. So I believe you

[mopinko]

208. yeah, it used to be it had to be close to cheat.

but after getting away w it since '04, they are now bold af about it.

[Baltimike]

212. FUCKING SPOT ON!!! nt

[LiberalArkie]

218. The new touch screens produce a human readable card that is then inserted into a tabulator.

[mopinko]

219. unless there is a robust audit, even tabulators can be hacked,

[LiberalArkie]

220. Yep, and then even the paper ballots are hacked.

[mopinko]

221. as someone from chicago, i can tell you- there are many ways to cheat.

computers make it easy to do and hard to find.

[LiberalArkie]

223. Yes they do, but at the same time they have the ability to create a fraud free election.

As someone from south Arkansas, I do not trust the paper ballot box being put into a personal cat and then driven across town and taken out and then tabulated. Back in the 60's the sealed ballot box for black precincts would be put s deputies vehicle and at a point along the drive substituted for a different sealed ballot box. The white candidates always won in the black precincts until the mechanical voting machines were placed there.

[dchill]

227. HAVA. The Help America Vote Act.

[Blue_Roses]

231. Exactly.

This is how they stole it 4 years ago. Trump is so upset because he knows this plan didn't work for him this year.

[mopinko]

232. they cant rig the polls. but they can rig the count.

that's why they had to destroy the org that did the exit polls in '04.

we rly need better bs detectors in this country.

[Blue_Roses]

233. Four years ago

my daughter and I were watching the election returns and when PA, WI and MI went red, I looked at my daughter and said, "I think we're being hacked--by Russia!" She looked at me like I was crazy.

This was her first year voting and she was so into it and I am proud of her. But, ironically, she texted me on election night and said, "Mom, how can PA and MI be red"? Thankfully, I was able to calm her down with the mail-in ballots still not counted. She was the first person to let me know Biden had won.

Things do have a way of working out for greater good AND karma is a bitch!

😊