Two names: Stacey Abrams and Bernie Sanders

[Tom Rinaldo]

Their political ideologies overlap but are not identical. They both worked to reach a broad range of center left voters, but their core constituencies are not identical. They broadly agree on the direction our nation needs to take, but their specific short term agendas, no doubt, are not identical. There will be a robust ongoing debate inside the Democratic coalition about policy priorities, issue framing, and the best routes to increase our share of the electorate. I expect those two will differ on such matters at times, perhaps sharply. Where, exactly, we go from here has yet to be decided, but this OP isn't about the near future, it is about the recent past.

Both Stacey Abrams and Bernie Sanders, each in their own unique way, worked to build and mobilize key elements of the Democratic coalition over the last few years. They were not unique in this, but their contributions were high profile, and the ultimate fruits of their labor in this regard made a critical difference in the 2020 Presidential election, when both the African American and the youth vote surged in key states enabling this Joe Biden win, which would not have been possible without that level of increased turn out from them.

This OP isn't about arguing about who is more right or wrong about this or that policy or approach. It is about acknowledging that the efforts made by the likes of Stacy Abrams and Bernie Sanders over a period of several years to energize, mobilize and help turn our core center left constituencies, made a crucial contribution to ensuring that the next President of the United States will be Democrat, Joe Biden. Jobs well done.

[SlogginThroughIt]

1. Stacey yes. Bernie... Groan.

I voted for Bernie in the primary but I am sorry I don’t see it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. In the primary Bernie Sanders won a strong majority of Latinx voters

with overwhelming support from younger members of that diverse demographic group. Sanders helped energize them with a very effective multi-year campaign effort to reach and engage them. Once the primary was over the vast majority of them stayed engaged, with the active strong encouragement of Bernie Sanders, on behalf of Joe Biden. Joe Biden did not intrinsically elicit strong support from most younger voters, but Bernie Sanders did, and he constantly hammered away with them for years on the necessity of registering and voting for a better future. Those efforts paid off for all of us including, ultimately, for Joe Biden.

[SlogginThroughIt]

18. You know what?

I don’t even want to argue about it. You are right Bernie did in fact help a lot. It really did take everyone on board to get here. I am not convinced that we didn’t somehow overcome some seriously underhanded if not outright illegal actions by trump, the gop, and foreign influence.

Let’s cheer this thing together and forget the dumb stuff. Please belay my last post. I retract!

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. Thank you. It did take us all working together to pull this out...

from Micheal Bloomberg to AOC

[George II]

84. No he didn't. He barely got a quarter of the popular votes and delegates in the primary...

He won only 8-1/2 states/territories of the 57.

Among the states he won are New Hampshire, 1/2 of Iowa, Utah, Vermont, and North Dakota - none of which have a measurable Latinx population. The other three states were Colorado, California and Nevada - with significant Latinx populations.

He lost Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida, New York, New Jersey (the remaining high Latinx populated states) and was even crushed in Puerto Rico.

So, I respectfully wonder how one could say he won a strong majority of Latinx voters. He didn't even win a majority, much less "strong", of Latinx voters.

[Tom Rinaldo]

85. I said that because there were, in a way, two main phases to the primary campaign

Before South Carolina, and post South Carolina. For lots of understandable reasons and essentially healthy reasons there was a strong pull to unify around Biden after South Carolina, followed by a strong and understandable bandwagon effect. Sanders did much better in Nevada with LatinX than did Biden or anyone else for that matter. He had been polling very well nationally, pre South Carolina, with LatinX, with his support particularly strong with younger LatinX voters. Important elements of the Sanders campaign outreach effort to LatinX swung over to help Biden after the Convention.

[George II]

86. There were only three primaries/caucuses before South Carolina, two in states with negligible....

....Latinx constituents (Iowa and New Hampshire).

By the time he suspended his candidacy 31 states held their primaries, including California and Colorado (which he won in close contests) and Texas, Arizona, and Florida, which he lost. He lost Florida by 74-26!

[Gothmog]

19. I agree

sanders cost Joe Florida Socialism was used very effectively by trump and cost Joe Florida

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. Trump already had Florida from 2016

We can second guess many things but there is no certainty Florida was ever really in reach this time. Before Republicans shifted to cursing about "socialism" they did the same very effectively about "liberals". It is something the modern Republican Party always does, they smear Democrats with labels that they savagely twist the meaning of. We can only get so far by running away from principles that we believe in because of how Republicans unjustly label and then smear us. Having said that I believe Joe Biden, in the current political climate, was ultimately the right person for Democrats to run this cycle. He combined moderate credentials with a strong direct appeal to working class men and women, including non college educated whites, on both cultural and economic grounds. By covering both of those bases he was best positioned to pull away a small percentage of Trump's core base, and that proved to be critical to our overall success.

[Gothmog]

53. You are wrong

The concept of socialism is a deal killer for far too many voters. trump used this line of attack very effectively and it was decisive. We lost a ton of down ballot races due to poor messaging including relianxe on policies that are not popular with middle class voters.

[Demsrule86]

62. I think Sanders deserves credit for the $15.00 minimum wage in Florida...sure Democrats talked

about it before, but he made it a voting issue.

[joshcryer]

2. Bernie gave us Trump.

[JI7]

5. +

[Autumn]

6. No, the electoral college gave us Trump. Just like it will give us Biden. You know how

elections work.

[Autumn]

20. This is 2020 josh.You are entitled to your opinion but not your "own" facts.

So long.

[joshcryer]

21. Fact:

[NurseJackie]

72. Once again... thank you!

[joshcryer]

73. ♥

[Imperialism Inc.]

24. Sanders campaigned for Clinton way way way more than Obama did for Joe Biden! n/t

[Autumn]

34. Yes he did but some won't accept the truth because they are blinded by hate.

They revel in it and carry a grudge because Bernie had the nerve to run. They expect Bernie to be their living 'sin eater"

[NurseJackie]

74. Ridiculous. That's simply not true.

They revel in it and carry a grudge because Bernie had the nerve to run.

Ridiculous. That's simply not true.

some won't accept the truth because they are blinded by hate.

[joshcryer]

35. It took Sanders 8 weeks and 3 days to endorse her.

After she had mathematically eliminated him and became the first woman nominee for President.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. She only became the first (major party) woman nominee for Prsident after she was so designated by

the Democratic Party Convention. You know that. And no one is truly mathematically eliminated before actual votes are cast. Sanders endorsed Clinton before the Convention opened. Contrast that, for example, with a liberal icon like Ted Kennedy who fought an incumbent Democratic President tooth and nail on the floor of a Democratic Convention, and them sat on his hands after the convention, contributing to Carter's defeat by Reagan. Very few here have ever shown any interest blacklisting Teddy over that.

But my point is that Bernie Sanders helped steer a younger generation of potential voters into the political process. The argument here had always been, but they don't show up to vote. They did.

[joshcryer]

49. Kennedy delivered a rousing speech in support of Carter.

What are you on about? After his defeat he came out in full support of Carter.

That's the fucking point. Losers support the winner and concede gracefully.

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. My last post on this sub thread. Feel free to have the last word if you wish

This represents the farthest extent to which I have any interest in revisiting a controversy within our Democratic coalition from the past. We are united behind Biden NOW:

Sanders endorsed Clinton before the Democratic National Convention. Kennedy fought the incumbant Democratic President Carter for the Democratic nomination on the floor of the Democratic Convention.

Kennedy strongly endorsed Carter in a Convention speech once Carter won the nomination. Sanders strongly endorsed Kennedy in a Convention speech before she won the nomination.

Sanders campaigned extensively for Clinton once she was the nominee (but not as much as Clinton campaigned for Obama). Kennedy did not campaign for Carter once Carter was the nominee.

Here is a link to both a video of and a transcript of the speech Sanders gave to the 2016 Democratic Convention:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/26/transcript-bernie-sanderss-full-speech-at-the-2016-dnc/

Here are some exerts from that speech:

"...By these measures, any objective observer will conclude that based on her ideas and her leadership, Hillary Clinton must become the next president of the United States....

Hillary Clinton understands that if someone in this country works 40 hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty.

She understands that we must raise the minimum wage to a living wage!

And she is determined to create millions of new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems and wastewater plants...

Hillary Clinton will nominate justices to the Supreme Court who are prepared to overturn Citizens United!

And end the movement toward oligarchy that we are seeing in this country.

Her Supreme Court appointments will also defend a woman's right to choose....

...workers' rights, the rights of the LGBT community...

...the needs of minorities and immigrants and the government's ability to protect our environment....

Hillary Clinton is listening to the scientists who tell us that unless we act boldly to transform our energy system in the very near future, there will be more drought, more floods, more acidification of the oceans, more rising sea levels. She understands that we can create hundreds of thousands of jobs transforming our energy system...

I have known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I remember her, as you do, as a great first lady who broke precedent in terms of the role that a first lady was supposed to play as she helped lead the fight for universal health care.

I served with her in the United States Senate and know her as a fierce advocate for the rights of children, for women and for the disabled.

Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president and I am proud to stand with her tonight!"

[SidDithers]

68. And then he disappeared after the convention, not to emerge until Labour Day...nt

Sid

[NurseJackie]

78. Many many weeks of valuable time was squandered.

Time that could have been used to build bridges and heal wounds and counter the lies of shit-stirrers like Sarandon.

[George II]

93. He had more important things to do, Sid.

[SidDithers]

67. No he didn't. This is a lie that has been propagated over and over by Sanders's supporters...

He disappeared for 6 weeks after the convention, when it was most crucial to unite the party after a divisive primary. He didn't do any campaigning for Clinton until after labour day.

Even this year, 3 days before the election, Bernie was calling the Democratic Party the "party of coastal elites"

Last time I checked, MN, MI and WI are about as middle America as you can get.

Sid

[joshcryer]

75. It blows my mind.

It really does. I don't get it. How. How do people fall for populist rhetoric and actually believe the exact opposite of reality? It's insane to me. I just don't get it. My brain isn't wired to support those types I guess. I don't know.

[Imperialism Inc.]

77. "Sanders did 39 rallies for Clinton in 13 states over the final three months of the 2016 general"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/30/politics/bernie-sanders-umbrage-clinton-2016/index.html

Sorry if you don't like facts but those are the facts.

[SidDithers]

80. Check the dates...

and get your own damn facts.

He disappeared after the convention. Didn't start campaigning until after Labour Day.

Sid

[Imperialism Inc.]

81. Again. He campaigned more for Clinton than Obama did for Biden, as I said.

That is the fact. I'm sorry if you don't like the facts but it doesn't change them. My facts are straight. I didn't make them up.
What I said was and remains true.

[SidDithers]

82. Knock yourself out...

But the truth is that Bernie Sanders (I-VT) went missing immediately after the convention, and did nothing to heal the divisions that he caused during the primary, until it was too late.

Instead of bringing Democrats together, he allowed the primary wounds to fester. To this day, rose twitter proves this.

I'm just glad the Independent Senator from VT will never be President.

Sid

[Imperialism Inc.]

83. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

You said I told a lie and I didn't, however you need to save face is ok I guess.

[George II]

94. You're implying that Obama didn't support Biden, forgetting that we're in the middle of a pandemic.

NO ONE campaigned as much this year as they did four years ago.

[George II]

91. I can't find the list of places and/or appearances, but I did find this in the article:

By his campaign's count, Sanders did 39 rallies for Clinton in 13 states over the final three months of the 2016 general election.

[George II]

90. You seem to forget that in 2016 there wasn't a global pandemic that killed 240,000 Americans....

...and sickened more than 9 million others. A pandemic that now is more intense it was in the spring when the country shut down.

Details, details.

[Alex4Martinez]

37. Thank you. I'm sick of the Bernie blaming.

That's no way to pull together, the electoral college has got to go.

So do early primaries, there should be a consistent primary timing, and keep expanding ways to vote as we have had to under Covid.

[comradebillyboy]

8. He had some help from Comey but on balance yes he did...

[NurseJackie]

60. ...

[Glamrock]

3. Hells yes!

[Claustrum]

4. Don't forget Beto.

He didn't deliver TX but he generated a lot of hype.

[Blasphemer]

10. Yes, Abrams + Beto can lead this party.... nt

[Claustrum]

13. In the future for them. Biden is leading this party in the next 4 years :)

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. Yes, Beto too, though his Texas based efforts did not this time win the prize...

...of those electoral college votes, Republicans had to divert resources to Texas, and Democrats are rising now in Texas.

[JI7]

7. Only Abrams , not Sanders

[octoberlib]

9. Two names :Stacey Abrams and Jim Clyburn

[JI7]

27. Jim

[octoberlib]

28. Fixed I do this every time!

[Cha]

51. There ya GO!!

[octoberlib]

55. Lol!

[Cha]

63. Aloha & Hallelujah, octoberlib!

Stacy Abrams & James Clyburn!

[spicysista]

11. Stacey has worked her entire political life to strengthen our party.

She is a treasure and will continue to work for the good of the people through the Democratic Party. That is all.


Edit: Beto, too.

[Wounded Bear]

16. Abrams, Clyburn, and O'Rourke...

working to blue up red states.

[GoCubsGo]

43. Exactly right. And, Mary Jane.

Having marijuana legalization on some states' ballots also increased turnout. Arizona comes to mind, although there were definitely other factors involved there. Cindy McCain deserves a tip of the hat, for starters. But, the bulk of the credit goes to those three.

[ooky]

17. Another way Bernie could help us - change from "Independent" to "Democrat".

Angus King too. Instant Senate majority!(?)

[NYC Liberal]

22. Bernie caucuses with us and is already included in our count tho.

[ooky]

26. Oh well, there goes that idea.

Darn!

[George II]

95. Yes, when he isn't bashing us. I seem to recall a comment recently about "coastal elites"?

[joshcryer]

29. Yep.

Could've easily cost us this thing.

[ooky]

32. They didn't need Bernie for that though. They've used that against us long before Bernie

came on the scene. They just pick a poster child and run with it.

[My Pet Orangutan]

36. Bernie IS the poster child for 'Democratic' Socialism.

[ooky]

40. "Democratic" Socialism, yes.

"Socialism", no.

[My Pet Orangutan]

42. And once you are having to explain

you lose the argument.

[ooky]

46. Huh?

That doesn't make any sense.

Democrats have been accused of being "socialists" in every election as long as I can remember. Long before Bernie was a national celebrity. Socialism is a Republican boogeyman scare tactic, every election, just like "guns". Every election.

[JI7]

50. Sanders was actually defending Castro

[ooky]

57. I know and I cringed when I heard it.

[Willto]

31. Abrams Helped us win Georgia

Our association with Bernie cost us Florida. One of these things is good and deserving of praise. The other is not. I'll let you sort out which is which.

[Happy Hoosier]

38. Abrams is a MUCH better politician than Sanders, IMO. NT

[Turin_C3PO]

39. Agree.

Stacey Abrams is the reason we have Georgia. And Sanders helped by making sure the more far left of his supporters voted Biden and not third party.

[Baltimike]

41. They don't even belong in the same sentence together

I am sick to death of giving Bernie credit for shit he never accomplished. He's a great guy. He shoots from the hip. He did NOT do a great job campaigning for Biden. He did an ok job.

Stellar? Not so much

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. I agree with the summation on post #39 above yours

I was not focused solely on the personal efforts of Sanders in this election.

[Baltimike]

56. That's fair...

but Stacey Abrams is a huge shining star in this moment and Bernie did his part. The 'liberal elites on the coast" thing was not helpful at all.

Abrams is moving mountains even as we speak

[Cha]

48. Really. TY for the reality check.

And, he came out with this on Oct 20th..

Newsweek: Bernie Sanders Says Democratic Party Has Become a 'Party of Coastal Elites'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214394628

[Celerity]

64. he brought in a shedload of the more progressive voters and younger voters, & AOC did a masterclass

job at tamping down dissent from many of the actual non Democratic bad faith actors like the odious Jacobin crew.

It is funny how they get nothing but shit even when they help deliver massive amounts of new or previously wandering voters for Biden.

[Baltimike]

66. I see what you did there. We aren't talking AOC who DID do a LOT

and a lot more than Bernie.

I'm not shitting on him either.

[Celerity]

70. I only did what everyone in certain quarters (not saying you per se) does and joined them at the hip

Just my joining was in the form of a mutual defence of both of them, within the construct that I addressed.

[Tommymac]

47. Thanks. They BOTH have worked their asses off for We The People.

Haven't we had enough hate and division?

Can't we for once pause the internal knife fights and come together for a brief moment?

We have a Big Tent. There is room for all. Let's discuss our differences and how to come together to solve them; the past has been discussed ad nauseum. I for one wish we could move on to the future in a constructive manner.

Thanks again Stacey and Bernie.

[Sogo]

52. Please don't tie Stacey Abrams to Bernie Sanders.

...

[Gothmog]

54. I agree

sanders is not like Stacey Abrams in any way

[Cha]

65. I agree.. Thank you.

[Autumn]

69. Tough, Stacy is a brilliant woman and she didn't mind tying herself to Bernie Sanders.

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

79. Thank you.

[uponit7771]

98. +1

[Spazito]

58. Stacey Abrams is definitely someone to praise for her stellar work...

Sanders, not so much.

[mvd]

59. Good post

I completely align with Bernie and progressive Democrats. Bernie was 100% behind Biden this time. I hope we can keep moving the party to the left. Regardless of if Biden was my first choice or not (I’d say he was behind Bernie, Elizabeth, Harris, Buttigieg and more), Biden saved us from Trump and is a good guy. His demeanor and experience will help. And I gained a lot of respect for Abrams. She was so pivotal in Georgia!

[fishwax]

61. I am rec'ing your unambiguously positive post on this unambiguously positive day

[LizBeth]

76. I disagree. Sanders did the opposite of building and mobilizing any Democratic coalition. His was a

campaign of destruction for 5 years.

[boston bean]

87. Ridiculous to group Stacey Abrahms in that way.

She did more for democrats in one election than he has done his entire 50 year career.

[JI7]

96. +

[ecstatic]

88. I don't think Bernie helped.

The people he used as surrogates are very toxic and they spread a lot of false information about Biden, which trump used as well. It hurt our numbers, if anything.

[kcr]

89. Agree on Stacey Abrams

[Hortensis]

92. I don't think linking her to him honors her.

She’s become famous for fighting for the right of everyone to vote and AGAINST election theft. Her commitment to the sovereignty of the people is real.

[Tom Rinaldo]

97. The only direct linkage I intended involved voter turnout from two core Democratic constituencies

Had the African American vote not surged for Biden in key races, and had Millennials and Gen Z participation at the polls not significantly exceeded prior expectations, Joe Biden would have lost. You may well believe that Stacey Abrams personifies all of the best attributes of political activism opposing the Republican agenda in America while Bernie Sanders does not. Fine, this OP did not seek to promote that discussion or debate. It simply acknowledges something that all Democrats need be aware of moving forward. We can not win without substantial Black support, and we can not win without substantial youth support. Abrams has worked tirelessly to get African Americans registered and engaged in our electoral process, and Sanders has done the same with young voters. That is the only "linkage" I was making.

[Hortensis]

99. Umhm. AA are one of the core constituencies of our party

and have been for several decades; yes, perhaps a quarter are strongly conservative, but it's extremely insulting to black liberals and moderates to imagine they're not principled Democrats who might switch at any time to what's become an extremely conservative white man's party if not constantly wooed. Their demands are about getting their share of our power and goals.

Our current problem is far, far less losing a few resentful AA conservatives, males especially, to the white man's party (we do every election) than -- extremely unfortunately -- losing large numbers of formerly Democratic white men especially to the Republican Party. That's simply because there are far more white moderate and conservative Dems who might shift. Remember, 3/4 of Americans are white and until recently 3/4 of Democrats.

Whites who've been moving right have been intensively studied. Permanent loss of the good jobs that once made them feel middle-class secure, and valuable, has caused them to feel threatened and displaced, in part blaming greater competition from minorities and women. It wasn't always that way. Overall, this group was fine with, and supportive of, Democratic emphasis on equal rights advances as long as they themselves were doing well.

We lost big numbers in 2016 and more in 2018 and have gotten some back in 2020. (Trump lost over a third of his 2016 white male gain Biden this week). But we need more and we need them to stay. And, importantly, overall, they don't like Bernie Sanders..

As for Sanders, by far most of his primary supporters were staunch liberals and we don't need to worry about losing them; in fact, just like black liberals, it's insulting to imagine we do: they ARE us. His other quarter in both elections were anti-Democrats who loudly promised to vote against us and did, as the older ones (literally the same people behaving the same way each election) have done for splinter candidates in several past elections. It's past time to believe that fringe means what they say and forget about them.