Why are people so angry the media is being careful to get it right before projecting a winner?

[StarfishSaver]

If news outlets were to call it and got it wrong because they jumped the gun, they'd never hear the end of it - and the people now demanding that they call it immediately would be screaming the loudest.

We're not children waiting for Santa Claus to come. Why can't we just be patient, let the counting continue, and wait for the call to be made?

Sheesh!

[Dem2]

1. Agree

I assume it's frustration and generally hide the threads.

[Demsrule86]

2. Two reasons...they immediately called it for Trump in 16 and would for any GOP.

Also, the longer this goes on the more dangerous Trump will be...and his supporters are increasingly raising hell.

[Hassler]

5. This

[StarfishSaver]

13. This is not 2016.

In 2016, states were able to complete their counts much earlier.

This year, the unprecedented and overwhelming number of mail-in/absentee ballots are making it impossible to complete counts as quickly as in the past.

Right now, the number of uncounted absentee ballots is high enough that it would be irresponsible to project a winner, even though the trend seems pretty clear. But a trend is not a vote.

[Demsrule86]

29. The count were not complete when it was called...it was a projection...and the race

was tighter than this year too.

[StarfishSaver]

38. The count was not complete but it was mathematically impossible for Hillary to win

based on the number of uncounted ballots.

This year, there are still enough uncounted ballots to make it possible for Trump to catch up and win.

[Demsrule86]

47. They knew this because of where the votes were not the numbers...the same thing is known now...

Trump has lost...the votes are in blue areas. They could call PA right now and should. And please CNN and MSNBC stop with the lame excuses and the sobbing for Trump...it makes me sick.

[StarfishSaver]

55. That's just not true, no matter how many times people say it.

They cannot just assume that because votes come from a blue area that they will be votes for Biden. Yes, that is very likely but this does not operate based on likelihood but on probabilities and the probabilities cannot be confirmed until more of the votes are actually counted.

For example, in Pennsylvania there are more than 100,000 provisional ballots still uncounted. Many of those ballots are Republican voters who had requested absentee ballots but decided to vote in person. It's still possible that there are enough Republican votes in that batch to give Trump the lead.

This is not some grand conspiracy to harm Democrats or hurt Trump. This is just the way it's supposed to be done.

[Demsrule86]

64. They did in Hillary's case. The state wasn't counted. It was a projection.

[StarfishSaver]

65. Ok.

[Kaleva]

15. What evidence is there that suggests Trump and followers will become less dangerous?

If MSM calls it?

[Demsrule86]

33. They are still trying to win the 'election'...call it and there is no election.

Sure they will still be an issue...but they are just as wound up as we are...more really. And the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for them to process this.

[Kaleva]

36. They won't accept any outcome other then Trump winning.

MSM calling it isn't official. That won't happen till the Electors vote in December.

[Demsrule86]

48. The sooner it is called the better for this country.

[Statistical]

17. Exactly where was the extreme must be absolute mathematical certainty in 2016

or 2012 or 2008 or hell ELECTION NIGHT in 2020.

Suddenly Trump is on the verge of losing and yet again norms and standards which have existed for decades suddenly change to accommodate his fragile ego.

Clinton lost WI and MI by less than 0.50% did anyone wait until 99.5% of the vote had been counted before calling? It went into a recount in WI did everyone wait 13 days for that to happen before calling?

Of course not. No Presidential candidate has ever been giving this much latitude in the face of overwhelming evidence (and likely never will in the future). Fuck Trump. He lost. He is a loser. Lets announce it and start talking about what it means going forward.

GA is the only one which you could make a case for not calling. NV, AZ, and PA should already be called and Biden sitting at 290 EV and making his victory speech, announcing his transition team, and making public plans for the future.

[Yavin4]

22. See my post

The media needs their Big Bad:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214481188

[Demsrule86]

50. It is fucking nauseating.

[coti]

53. Hear, hear!!

This thing is OVER!! Call it!!

[AngryOldDem]

25. Exactly.

[Locrian]

26. exactly this

It wound have been called already if the leads and outstanding votes were as it is.

This is either cowardice, or they want "ratings" and to continue the drama.

Every hour gives the trump camp and supporter more time to change the narrative and sow doubt. You will NEVER appease them, this is the same losing strategy that they have been playing and getting played by trump for 4 years. Enough.

[jcgoldie]

3. Because the math is already known

The presumption of doubt is fueling the fire and the trump narrative.

[StarfishSaver]

16. No, the math is not already known

For example, Biden is leading Trump by about 15,000 votes in Pennsylvania. But more than 200,000 absentee ballots have yet to be counted. Even though it is very likely that those ballots will break toward Biden, there's no guarantee of it. Math makes it possible for those ballots to go either way.

[jcgoldie]

19. Please provide a link to any number close to 200,000

Thank you.

[StarfishSaver]

37. Since I wrote this, they reported the uncounted absentee ballots at 100k with 100k outstanding provi

Pennsylvania, with 20 electoral votes, remains Mr. Biden’s clearest path to victory; a win there would be enough to call the entire race in his favor. He slowly built a lead of more than 14,500 votes over President Trump on Friday, with more than 100,000 absentee ballots still to count, and he has won more than three-quarters of the absentee votes counted so far. There are also about 100,000 provisional ballots, cast by people who could not be verified as eligible on Election Day, which usually lean overwhelmingly Democratic, as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/06/us/trump-biden#in-pivotal-states-that-could-put-biden-over-the-top-the-counting-continues-slowly (posted 35 minutes ago)

[Statistical]

21. That has never been that standard for any state in any election in modern political history.

It shouldn't suddenly be the case now because baby hilter has a sad.


Clinton lost WI by

[Demsrule86]

45. Yes it is known. They projected Hillary Clinton with way less vote. Next, they skewered her for

not conceding immediately...just heard CNN practically sobbing for Trump and his loathsome supporters...turned it off. They won't get any ratings from me...bastards. They are helping Trump...and it is a dangerous thing to do.

[StarfishSaver]

49. No. They. Didn't.

This is very different than 2016. If you're going to argue about this, please at least check your facts.

[DeminPennswoods]

70. Well, there are 102k absentee ballots out

Of those 68k are in Allegheny, Phila and the Phila collar counties. But, yeah, maybe Trump will completely reverse the trend and win 80% of them. This after most of the Trump stronghold of Westmoreland county's mailed ballots came in at 60% Biden.

If you look at the provisional ballots, those that are valid are closely following the percent each candidate got in that particular county. And, a significant chunk of the provisionals are in Allegheny and Philadelphia as I understand it.

[coti]

4. Because it's opportunities like this that Trump and his people

take advantage of to make political moves and tell lies that cause serious problems and damage our country.

AND, mathematically, there is no good reason NOT to! The race is over!

[Thekaspervote]

18. He's going to continue to tell lies, damage the country and foment violence either way

That’s who he is, that’s what he does

[coti]

27. Those lies could do a LOT more damage if the media and Biden

aren't even willing to call the race yet.

They need to call it now, dragging this out is not helping anything.

[OhZone]

6. Cause I want to celebrate already!

HA!

[Kaleva]

12. That's about it. So we here can celebrate.

[Mr. Ected]

7. Yep

If they rush to call, the pooplicans will cry that we knew the numbers in advance because we defrauded them.

By being prudent, we diminish their points of attack.

[coti]

28. No, we're leaving a vacuum and allowing them to fill it. nt

[Mr. Ected]

34. They'd fill it the moment we declare victory, anyway

They've been filling it since before the first vote was cast.

[Hamlette]

8. too many conspiracy theorist here, Same rules from dems as GOP

the net work has rules and it follows them. No call until 99.5% counted.

[coti]

30. Those aren't at all the "rules"

There are no black and white rules like that, it's entirely situational judgment.

[Demsrule86]

57. They called it way earlier in 16 so not true.

[Thekaspervote]

10. This! If they got a call wrong and had to retract it, it would feed their conspiracy that it

Happened nation wide. Violence would certainly ensue

On another note, it’s most suitable that little tiny hands is suffering the death of his brief but criminal political career by a thousand paper cuts, agonizing, flailing and consumed

[Demsrule86]

63. No matter when it is called...it will be a nightmare...but waiting to call when we have used

projections forever in every other race, is unfair. I am livid that Trump gets coddled while Hillary who was way closer was just criticized horrible for not conceding right away. Turn off both channels. I won't help their ratings while they IMHO damage our country.

[Hoyt]

11. Agree. Do it right and minimize chance of chaos.

This isn’t like 1948 when Americans pretty much got along - except for racism - such that a Dewey Truman mistake wouldn’t have caused a major riot.

[LizBeth]

14. They and everyone else only know. This is not to ensure it is right, this is to appease the tantrum

thrower. And the more we try to merely appease his tantrums, the more out of control he gets. Because it is not healthy or right.

They know there is no place for Trump to go with NV. It is over.

They know Trump has lost Penn.

But this allows his crazy supporters to think surely there must be fire with all this smoke since it is taking and extraordinary amount of time to call the election. Must really be close, and it is not. Allows them and Trump to stew and build up angst too when it is totally unnecessary because Trump has mathematically lost.

[StarfishSaver]

20. No, they don't know

They know how the votes are trending. They don't know for certain how those absentee ballots will actually turn out. They also don't know the results of the provisional ballots.

Yes, we're all pretty sure how this will turn out. But that is not sufficient to justify a media projection of a winner.

[LizBeth]

42. They called Virginia before counting hardly any votes. They have called ALL the states much more

quickly without all these hoops up all of a sudden, that none of the others states jumped thru. The issues could be in those states as they continue to count as much as Penn. Not ONE person thinks Penn is going to anyone but Biden. That is as good as it gets when calling states as they did thru out this election and EVERY election in our history.

We are treating Trump special. We are being that parent that is so damn afraid of our kid not taking the tantrum on and he will continue ot get worse as will his supporters.

The is a specific message with calling a race. We all know it and people are pretending there is not.

[StarfishSaver]

46. That's not true.

Virginia completed it's vote counts very quickly, thanks to a new law that allowed officials to process and scan absentee ballots upon receipt and not have to wait until election day. That meant that as soon as the polls closed, they could be tabulated immediately. Most states have to wait until Election Day - and often until the polls close - to open the envelopes, flatten out the ballots and get them ready for scanning. That takes much longer. And given the huge number of absentee ballots this year, that really slowed down the process.

That's a particular problem in Pennsylvania, among other places where the state legislatures refused elections officials' request to be permitted to process absentee ballots before the polls closed.

[LizBeth]

54. Michigan was still counting and called. Tx, Florida still counting called. Wa Ca Or all still

counts and called. There are ways the calculate the given and call it while counting. Everyone has given Biden Penn. And they won't call it. Trump does not have a path with Nv and the official want it called, and they are not calling it. This is not normal procedure. And Trump just is not that special, but what he does get with his tantrums is EVERYONE afraid to not give him what he wants or try to appease him. ALL his life and I am fuckin sick of it and do not want to be a part of it but here we sit.

[StarfishSaver]

58. Ok. Whatever

You're right. The media is engaging in a major conspiracy to undermine Biden, damage Democrats and help Trump.

But they didn't fool you, did they?

[LizBeth]

61. It is no fuckin conspiracy. You say it, not me. It is in our face and we have had two days

conversation and a whole lot of Democrats saying, oh lets make sure we go all the way thru the process before calling it, just be patient. There is no damn conspiracy. Geezus. Thread after thread after thread of the discussion and you dismiss me with accusation I am throwing out a conspiracy.

We are doing the same enabling with Trump that people have done all his life.

[Demsrule86]

66. You are correct. And they castigated Hillary for even considering asking for a recount and not

conceding right away...and she was way closer.

[Thekaspervote]

24. That's one opinion. PA officials said they would not be calling it until Biden's lead exceeded 20k

We aren’t there yet

[LizBeth]

39. And NV? They are begging for it to be called.

[Demsrule86]

69. Call it and much of the protest and bullshit will end because they have lost.

[StarfishSaver]

79. LOL

The MAGA militia/QAnon crowd will just shut up and go home as soon as they hear Steve Karnacki and MSNBC project Biden the winner?

Let us know how that works out.

[Demsrule86]

68. They won't call it then. It is already over 19,000 and they have more excuses than Carter has

pills. They won't call it...ratings maybe or fear of Trump...hell they were so sorry for poor Trump and he needed time to process blah blah...no he needs to be stopped. Alito just ordered separation of ballots. This is nightmare. The longer it goes on the worse it will be. Trump is trying to run out the clock so he can get a new set of electors.

[TreasonousBastard]

23. Because... we can't. I was wrong about the Biden steamroller, and I don't want...

to be wrong about Biden winning at all.

Things are so insane this year that I want it to be CLEAR Biden won before it's announced.

It's not clear yet. Really, it isn't. High probabilities are not accurate totals.

[Thekaspervote]

31. Agree! It's been long and arduous, a few more hours to get it right is vital

We have trusted Joe Biden thus far, most agree he’s run an almost seamless campaign. We need to go just a little further...it’s really just around the corner

[Mike 03]

32. Did you bother to read any of those threads before posting this?

Because it has been thoroughly discussed for hours.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

35. Because TRAUMA! 4 years of it.

[StarfishSaver]

41. 4 years. We can wait a few more hours.

It just seems that some of us can never be satisfied. The other night folks were gnashing their teeth, carrying on as if the world were about to end even though votes had not been counted yet. Now we're on the verge of a wonderful victory, and instead of enjoying it, people are whining and moaning that the call hasn't yet been made.

This insistence on playing victim and finding conspiracies behind every tree must be exhausting.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

60. I've been chasing OPs with numbers since election night.

I have not yet used the tv for updates because tv has a way of making waits longer.

Folks blow off steam in multiple ways. DU seems to have a full range, which includes people who feel victimized and people who soothe them. Very grateful for such a variety of distractions while waiting for the last eggs to hatch.

There is a live feed from PA that's been posted a few times. It really shows the size of the job as well as the ebb and flow of it.

[Johnny2X2X]

40. Because they contradict themselves

They have their experts in Tv saying PA is finished, Biden will gain with provisionals and the rest of the mail ins. Then they refuse to call it still.

[StarfishSaver]

43. There's a difference between offering commentary and calling a race

The commentary is opinion offered by pundits. Calling the race is a decision made by a completely different part of the operation

[NutmegYankee]

75. fatigue.

The suspense is making me sick.

[Hortensis]

44. +1000,000. Be the grownups we think they should be.

[coti]

52. Part of being grownup is having the courage to do the scary thing

when it's what's needed.

[LizBeth]

59. Exactly. A nation of enablers feeding Trump his tantrum.

[Hortensis]

74. As it happens, Michelle Bachmann says the same thing

and wants everyone to fight evil forces by making really bad trouble for Trump and God.

We know that because an otherwise very nice neighbor emailed us a call to join their battle tonight. We didn’t know how much his wife, who recently died of cancer, reined him in.

I do think that people who agree with that kind of thing would find much more agreement and Personal satisfaction on the right. They do it so much better.

[coti]

76. Nah, the right can have the cowards.

Hell, the right DO have the cowards.

[Totally Tunsie]

51. Thank you!

[Orangepeel]

56. It hasn't been *that* long

I know it's been 20 years since Bush/Gore, but that one proves that it's *really* bad when states are called too early

[StarfishSaver]

62. It's clear some folks just can't be satisfied no matter what the circumstances

And even as we sit on the verge of achieving what we've been fighting for so hard, they can't simply enjoy it, but must instead find something to complain about.

[gopiscrap]

67. two reasons A they would have called it for trump in a fucking heartbeat

if the same exact situation would reversed B because each day this isn't called it give trump and his MAGAts that much more time to try to steal it and set a narrative that it was crooked

[LizBeth]

71. +1. And that is why in all of history, they call the race ..... FAST! Oh, except the ONE time.

[LizBeth]

72. And here is another reason. We now have the SC's toe in our election. They were already afraid to

call it because of Trumps tantrums, making sure every single damn i was dotted and every t crossed even though we NEVER run an election that way and with the SC stickin' its toes in the election they are gonna be just that much more afraid.

Thank you very much. It is now gonna get messy and who knows when, when we had the opportunity to call it.

[egduj]

73. CNN shareholder?

[brettdale]

77. because its abnormal

They have called other elections before. If trump was ahead like this it wouldve been called and they would explain it by saying.... The trends have been the same all day of course we are calling it now. It would be idiotic to wait two or three days.

[Hekate]

78. Agree