Some thoughts about charging and jailing political enemies.

[Stinky The Clown]

When Trump and Barr, with LittleMeRudy, were doing the Lock Her Up bullshit, our side was outraged. Justifiably. Righteously.

When they did this, there was no crime. HRC had been investigated six ways from Sunday and there was nothing to lock her up about.

Now things are changed. At the moment there are no charges that can stick but there is strong evidence that crimes were committed.

So what do we do?

I can imagine a scenario where we investigate, charge, prosecute, and sentence the singularly most criminal administration in the history of this country and among the worst in the history of mankind. I can imagine that tearing the country apart.

I can make the case that, had there been charges and convictions for Bushco, we might not be here now. I can also imagine us having tried that only to watch the House go to 438-100, or even worse and the Senate go 80-20.

On the other hand, Bushco can be said to be small potatoes when stood against Trumpism.

Is it worth risking our majorities and our hold on the White House to prosecute Trumpco crimes?

The bomb thrower part of me says YES. The ecumenical part of me says we are better than that and now is the time to heal.

In short, I don't know.

[NotAPuppet]

1. Trump's slogan was "law and order".

I agree with him. Laws must apply to all Americans, and if anyone violates the law, they must be tried and there have to be consequences.

Healing doesn’t mean letting criminals off the hook.

[FoxNewsSucks]

7. Healing DEMANDS not letting criminals off the hook. nt

[bullimiami]

2. again like with bush. prosecute the crimes or have the criminals come back and try again.

one of my biggest disappointments with obama. right is right. wrong is wrong.

[JHB]

26. Like with Reagan-Bush too

There were a number of Reagan-Bush scandals where they stonewalled investigations to run out the special prosecutor's clock. Those needed some revisiting once they no longer in a position to further obstruct investigations.

But no such revisiting was done, and a number of the neocons involved there parked themselves in think tank sinecures until they became Dubya's foreign policy team. Everybody here knows how well that worked out. Would they have been able to take such high positions in an administration if some of their earlier shady work had been more publicly visible?

We can't know that, but we do know how it played out when that shadiness was simply ignored.

[bullimiami]

28. at least Bush 1 there were some prosecutions.

[PTWB]

3. If you don't prosecute them this will keep happening.

Let justice be done, politics be damned.

[spooky3]

11. That's my concern. When sociopaths think they can act with impunity

They endanger the country as well as harm their direct victims. That is what led to the worst of the Barr, Dejoy and Trump abuses.

I think they should sort out the cases with strongest evidence and pursue them. Manage the PR with effective messaging.

[soothsayer]

4. Let the states go after Trump

As for hatch act and other violations by underlings, idk, what’s the punishment? Probably nothing serious. Worth enforcing as a cautionary tale.

And, if you find huge trump crimes, then punish him.

[FoxNewsSucks]

5. Hold them accountable.

The double-standard IOKIYAR is part of the problem.

Of course they'll squeal about witch hunts. Who cares? If they're not guilty, they won't go to jail.

I think the states should do as much as possible, that takes away the witch-hunt thing. But every single crime needs an appropriate punishment, and it needs to be made clear that the days of a republicon administration getting away with whatever they want are O-V-E-R.

[rzemanfl]

6. Isn't not prosecuting licensing crime and giving people temporary power to be criminals at

will without consequence? As long as we don't write passes for our own folks, crimes are crimes and should be prosecuted. Lock them up after they receive due process.

[woodsprite]

8. I say we need to follow through with investigations, prosecution, etc.

In short, we have to be willing to set a precedent, follow through with our laws and essentially, make their whole cluster-fuck of an administration an example -- that's the only possible way to deter something like this from happening again. Then sure up our laws and policies against this.


We know they will attempt this again.

[Yonnie3]

9. IMO it is not "bomb throwing" to prosecute criminal activity

I want what Biden has said (my paraphrase), "let the justice department do what it sees fit," and it is not his job to intervene or direct them.

I think with the present polarization of people now days it would be difficult to find a jury that would be able to unanimously convict except in the most extreme cases. Because of this, not many cases would go to court.

I absolutely think we should take the high road and not have lock them up rallies.

[spooky3]

12. He should also advise IRS that he wants all audits thoroughly investigated

and brought to a close.

[KentuckyWoman]

10. NO.

Tax evasion will be the most likely scenario to get Trump Inc. The State of NY will take care of that I believe.

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. Picking a notoriously tough law & order California AG

For vice president was not a coincidence.

I bet she’ll have a lot to say about who our new attorney general will be.

[DLCWIdem]

14. How about splitting the difference

We should investigate to find out about and root out the corruption and see how much Trumps foreign influencers have infiltrated our country and what harm they have caused us. . That much needs to be done. The truth has to come out.

We don't need to prosecute political decisions. But of course the DOJ shouldn't be used as his personal attorneys or used to block NY attempts in fraud cases. Those are separate.

[eleny]

15. We all hoped our institutions would hold

They did. And now the new Justice Department, the new sheriff in town, will have to prove if it will hold.

We did go from Bush to Trump. Justice must investigate following evidence where it leads. Otherwise that institution is worthless, imo. It won't protect us from the next level monster if it lets this one go without an investigation we trust.

So we need to trust what we accomplished.

[better]

16. I've said this multiple times elsewhere, so I'll paraphrase...

The inclination to let things slide is rooted in the idea that sometimes it is worth letting rule of law take a back seat to mutual toleration, in the interest of the ability to get things done.

But that no longer works, because toleration is NOT mutual anymore.

Republicans have consistently been INTOLERANT of legal behavior that they don't like.

AND

Republicans have consistently been TOLERANT of ILLEGAL behavior that they DO like.

That's the simple and undeniable truth, so yes.

It is worth EVERYTHING to prosecute Trumpco crimes, because while democracy can function (albeit hindered) without mutual toleration, without rule of law, it is not democracy.

[Progressive dog]

17. This is not forgivable.

We have been ruled by a crime family for four years. The pursuit of justice is not bomb throwing.

[gratuitous]

18. We didn't prosecute torture and other war crimes from the Bush administration

And for our generosity, we got families ripped apart, kids in cages, and more than 500 children orphaned on U.S. soil. If we don't hold anyone accountable for this crime against humanity, what's going to be perpetrated in our names with our tax dollars when Fortune's Wheel turns again?

[Newest Reality]

19. The problem...

The problem with trumpism is that it was all noxious, inflammatory rhetoric meant to get a rise from MAGAs.

If we investigate and find ACTUAL crimes that have been committed, how would that be about political enemies? It would be in service of justice and the truth would be determined in a court of law.

The repugs have acclimatized us to blur the difference. Threats about enemies are a tactic they use. Investigations into malfeasance and criminality will play itself out as a necessary means to rectify corruption and that's a necessity for the sake of justice, not revenge.

[panader0]

20. If the investigations are handled totally fairly, where there are obvious crimes

that have been committed, no one except the deep cult will object. Justice needs to be done.
I think many trumpers will be surprised at what he has done, and some may be educated.
Like you said about Bushco, we might not be here if he had faced charges, and trumpco is
much worse.

[GeorgeGist]

21. What about criminals?

[JHB]

22. A big part of it is how it's done

With Bushco, the route to take would not have been to go straight for Bush and Cheney, but to start with the small fry (contractors delivering shoddy work, rampant waste, positions filled with people far too inexperienced to do the job they had but were chosen because political connections, etc.) in order to publicly associate Bush with a big stinking cloud of corruption. Get people pissed off at Bush because their sons couldn't use a shower without wondering if they'd get electrocuted. Once a big stink is laid at their feet, you can bring the public along for higher-level stuff.

But it's something that needs to be pushed, not just "put out there" with the expectation mainstream media will pick it up and run with it. They won't, because that would be "liberal bias." This is why the conservatives built their own media machine: to push their narratives, whether that involves advancing their agenda or defending against accountability for malfeasance.


So no, there won't be any indictments handed out on Jan. 21, but the extent of the corruption needs to be dug into, exposed, and made public. But yes, after investigations and cases made, there do need to be prosecutions. I don't share your view that we would have taken a massive loss back then if the Republicans had been publicly connected to corruption instead of being able to claim is was all hot air and politics. The same now. It's ignoring what they did in the name of "healing" that will cost us -- and it will prevent real healing.

[Ponietz]

23. Without justice, kiss it goodbye, no hope beyond 2024

Norms are irrelevant to them. The ratfucks will be greater by orders of magnitude.

[KatyMan]

24. Not prosecuting them for their crimes

Is why Republicans keep electing criminals, committing crimes and getting away with it. They expect us to cave and laugh at us the whole time. This handwringing needs to stop. It's not bomb throwing its justice.

[Hoyt]

25. I lean on the side getting rid of the MFers and moving on. First, no jury will convict the top dogs

like trump, Barr, etc. There will always be enough white wingers to hand a jury.

Second, the worst things they did really aren't crimes -- killing people through poor handling of CV19, encouraging racism and hatred, destroying our reputation worldwide, etc. -- unfortunately.

Going after previous administrations will just make the divisiveness worse, if that is possible. And set the next admin up for the same BS.

Finally, we just got the MFers by voting the sorry MFers out on Nov 3.

[logosoco]

27. This is one i keep going back and forth on.

I am one of those who is a little bit love and light and a little bit go f**k yourself.

I want to move forward. There is much work to be done. But it feels like if we don't start holding the big ones at the top accountable that is worse than cleaning the house when the kids are still home.

We have seen videos of black people being killed by the police when they committed no crimes or very minor crimes. But at the same time the ones at the top, in the Bush and Trump administrations who have done so much harm to so many, even the world over and they don't have any consequences at all to pay.

What is that they say about Bernie Maddoff? The only reason he went to prison was because he ripped off rich people, too.

If we don't start holding the ones at the top accountable i think we will just keep seeing them doing worse and worse things because they know they can get away with it.

The trump kids and Bannon, they both got busted for taking money for "charity" and then pocketing it. What would happen to me if i did that? I would like to think i would end up in jail. They are out and about still spewing how wonderful they are.

That don't seem right.

[treestar]

29. There's crime and there's political persecution

If there is evidence of a crime, it is not the same thing as locking them up just because they are a political opponent.