Clyburn: Things Like 'Defund the Police' Did NOT Help Dems During Election, I Believe It Hurt

[lapucelle]

Jaime Harrison’s Senate Race.

[C]lyburn is making it clear that he thinks some of the rhetoric from more liberal Democrats hurt candidates in the election by allowing Republicans to tie things like “defund the police” to them.

On Meet the Press Sunday, Clyburn told Chuck Todd that he’s convinced Joe Cunningham and Jaime Harrison lost in his state of South Carolina because of “defund the police.”

“Jaime Harrison started to plateau when ‘Defund the Police’ showed up with a caption on TV right across his head,” Clyburn said. “That stuff hurt Jaime. And that’s why I spoke out against it a long time ago.”

“I just hope that going forward, we will think about each one of these congressional districts and let people represent their district,” he added. “Let’s recognize that people should reflect that diversity in our country.”

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/clyburn-things-like-defund-the-police-did-not-help-dems-during-election-i-believe-it-hurt-jaime-harrisons-senate-race/

[DURHAM D]

1. The Republicans used the defund the police crap up and down the ballot

in rural red America. By that I mean from a U.S. Senate race down to County Commissioner.

[lapucelle]

3. Republicans used here in NY to very "good" effect.

It cost us both state assembly and congressional seats.

[Freddie]

11. Here in PA too

Biden won my county but our Repug Congressman was re-elected handily after his attack ads on his opponent, tying her to riots and “defunding the police.” We gotta work on better messaging.

[keithbvadu2]

2. 'Defund' was a completely poor choice of word. It should have been reorganize or reprioritize or som

'Defund' was a completely poor choice of word. It should have been reorganize or reprioritize or something like that.

[zentrum]

4. Yes "Defunders" were

…..always explaining that they meant "reform", "retrain", "relocate" funds to mental health responders.

Any term that you have to explain so much is not working.

They had months to change it. May have cost us a lot of seats.

[MustLoveBeagles]

13. You're right and it doesn't just apply to this issue

The bottom line is that if you have to explain your losing. A lot of voters don't have the time or the will to study the issues in depth. Unfortunately that hurts us and helps Republicans. Fox news and OAN along with thousands of hate radio stations amplifying their framing doesn't help us either. Many voters just aren't that bright and believe the lies.

[stillcool]

5. Never did figure out who started...

the "Defund the Police" at protests. The picture of those signs damn near smothered the internet, and gave Donald and the GOP their pivot to "law & order". Every cable news station made just those words front and center. No questions of reforming, retraining, or any other way to fix the police. Just 'defund'. My fear may subside in time, but the anger at those responsible for distorting truth, and advancing and enhancing poppy-cock, knows no bounds.

[SergeStorms]

6. Did republicans frame that debate?

I can't remember who came up with "defund", but it sounds like something the GOP would use to further scare voters. They're very good at stoking fear in voter's hearts.

[doc03]

7. I agree I don't know where it came from in the first place but that hurt us bad

probably one of the main reasons why we lost seats in the House and didn't get the Senate.

[lapucelle]

12. I think activists used it first, but the actual origin of the term is unclear.

What does 'defund the police' mean?

The rallying cry sweeping the US – explained

Activists have long advocated taking money from police and reinvesting it in services. The idea is now seeing a wave of support.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/defunding-the-police-us-what-does-it-mean

[kimbutgar]

8. I agree it really gave fuel to the right wingers

Reform the police would have been better.

[keithbvadu2]

9. Repeat... sorry

[bluestarone]

10. Fully AGREE

I believe it was said during the heat of the moment during the George Floyd protests, (which is understandable) but yea i don't think it helped us! We will figure it out. (WE better before 2024)

[exboyfil]

15. Georgia and 2022

So even before 2024.

[exboyfil]

14. I was just telling my daughter that Biden and the other Democratic candidates

should have forcefully said, "Hell no. We don't mean defund the police"

She is a mental health nurse and she doesn't want go out on 911 calls like some have suggested. She is trained to deal with unarmed patients, and she is still at daily risk.

On the other hand it enrages me that police have coopted the US Flag. How that got started is beyond me. It is wrong.

I have friends that our police. Many of us do. They do a hard job that requires a great deal of perception and empathy. They are not perfect and some are even criminal in their behavior, but that is a minority. They do need oversight and independent review. Cameras should be mandatory. They obviously need better training.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. The sons of bitches keep denying it

There was an apocryphal story in how Lyndon Johnson won his first campaign for office by having subordinates start a whisper campaign that his opponent has carnal relations with a pig. An advisor told Johnson he can't spread that rumor, Johnson said "No, we don't have to prove anything, we just need that sonuvabitch to deny it."

Constantly playing defense to Republican smears is not going to win you races. You tell voter that the goops are in bed with corrupt cops, nazis, racists and Proud Boys. People can whine about the left all they want, and they'll still lose because they don't know how to fight back against the real enemies.

[PTWB]

16. Which Democrats ran on a platform of Defunding the Police?

Defunding the Police was a protest slogan (and a terrible one) that both missed the mark in terms of what it aimed to accomplish and provided the RW a weapon with which to cudgel Democrats across the country in tight races.

The problem is that we allow right wing media to pick up these protest slogans and chants and paint the entire Democratic Party with them. This is compounded by the fact that due to our decrepit education system, a huge portion of Americans have no critical thinking skills and are completely influenced by meaningless soundbites.

[lapucelle]

18. 0casio-Cortez ran on it in NY 14.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

[PTWB]

25. No she didn't.

Talking about the 'defunding the police' movement isn't the same as campaigning on a defunding the police platform. Neither is being supportive of their goals. Instead of listening to what people want to say she said, why don't you listen to her in her own words.

The only "anti-police" policy she's specifically calling for is the creation of a national registry of police officers who commit misconduct so that they can be easily tracked and neighboring jurisdictions have information about who they're hiring.


This is AOC's platform. THIS is what AOC ran on:

https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues

• MEDICARE FOR ALL - Guarantee healthcare for all people, curb costs, and improve long-term health.
  
• HOUSING AS A HUMAN RIGHT - Protect current occupants, repair public housing, and build new affordable housing.
  
• REAL PUBLIC SAFETY - Ending police violence and investing in people, not prisons.
  
• HONOR IN IMMIGRATION - It is past time to make undocumented individuals full members of the country they call their home.
  
• A JUST RECOVERY FOR PUERTO RICO - Provide real support to Puerto Ricans experiencing economic and environmental crises while respecting their right to define their own future.
  
• ELEVATE PUBLIC EDUCATION - Strengthen our education system and make it affordable to all, so students are prepared for jobs.
  

[lapucelle]

31. Yes she did. It's on her official campaign website ... the one you linked to.

https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues#real-public-safety

[PTWB]

35. Wrong.

See post 33.

[lapucelle]

37. A0C ran on defunding the police. It's on her the platform page of her campaign website.

It's insulting to think that A0C didn't know the platform she detailed on her own campaign website.



https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues

[zipplewrath]

17. AOC had a counter argument

It was rather length and detailed. But basically it was that the democrats don't engage in the proper ways to counter these arguments.
They run TV ads all day while the GOP runs social media and internet based campaigns telling their lies.

[lapucelle]

23. This counter argument?

0casio-Cortez dismisses proposed $1B cut: 'Defunding police means defunding police'

Rep. Alexandria 0casio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) said New York City’s proposed $1 billion cut from the police department budget tiptoes around demands from activists who are asking for a reduced police presence.

Though the plan proposed by New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) cuts one-sixth of the New York Police Department (NYPD) budget, activists note that much of it would be transferred to other city departments, including the Department of Education, where it could pay for police in schools. Activists have advocated for removing officers from schools altogether.

“Defunding police means defunding police,” the congresswoman said in a statement. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

[PTWB]

26. Talking about an issue or a movement isn't the same as running on it.

There is a major issue with police monopolizing city resources. Talking about that issue is not wrong. The only anti-police policy she actually campaigned on was creating a national registry of police officers who commit misconduct - so that they're not hired by neighboring jurisdictions and we can track them.

[lapucelle]

28. A0C's support of "defunding the police" is on her official campaign website.

Alexandria strongly supports:

H.R.5070 - A Just Society: The Mercy In Re-entry Act;

H.Res. 702 - The People’s Justice Guarantee;

Defunding police and investing in healthcare, housing, education and other services;

Ending qualified immunity for police and making police misconduct records public;

https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues#real-public-safety

[PTWB]

33. Right.

I’m not going to be over critical here because I’m not sure how closely you follow politics.

In the same post you’re replying to I said, and I quote, “Talking about the 'defunding the police' movement isn't the same as campaigning on a defunding the police platform. Neither is being supportive of their goals.“

I’m not sure if you were trying to have a “gotcha!” moment but I clearly acknowledge she supports their goals.

Anyway, in politics you something called a platform. You run on your platform. That’s what we’ve been discussing. AOC’s platform included the issues I mentioned above.

AOC’s platform did not promise to defund the police. She promised to work on creating a national registry of police officers who commit misconduct so that they cannot simply hop between departments and abuse minorities in the next town over.

You may not be aware of this but politicians have forever supported groups, ideas, and movements detached from their campaign promises and platforms.

If you can’t see the difference between “I think folks who want to defund the police have legitimate grievances” and “I am going to defund the police if you elect me”, well, I don’t know how to help you.

[lapucelle]

36. "Alexandria strongly supports: Defunding police and investing in healthcare, housing, education,

and other services."

It's on her platform page. Click on the scales of justice icon (Real Public Safety) on her platform page, and the page expands. Didn't you read the details? I always read the fine print. Clicking on "learn more" is generally good policy when assessing a candidate.



*********************************************************************************************

Here's where folks can actually "learn more" about the details of the candidate's platform. That's why it says "learn more" in those little boxes on the page labeled "A0C's Platform: Key Issues".




*********************************************************************************************

https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues

[PTWB]

39. Are you still struggling with this?

You keep posting something that says she supports the thing I told you she supports. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with that but I'm happy that you agree with me, I guess? Politicians support movements, groups, ideas and positions - that support is separate from promises to do the things that those movements, groups, ideas and positions demand.

https://www.axios.com/aoc-democrats-digital-operation-bbb7fc6f-b370-478a-8984-900455437f49.html

Driving the news: After Democrats lost several key house races in divided districts, moderates were furious and pointing fingers at the progressive wing of the party. Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-Va.), who is narrowly leading her Republican challenger, vented on a caucus call that Democrats should never "use the words socialist or socialism ever again."

What she's saying: "If you look at some of these some of the arguments that are being advanced, that 'defund the police hurt' or that arguments about socialism hurt, not a single member of Congress that I'm aware of campaigned on socialism or defunding the police in this general election," Ocasio-Cortez told CNN's "State of the Union."

"I believe that there are many areas that we can point at in centralized democratic operations that are extraordinarily weak. For example, our digital campaigning is very weak. This is an area where Republicans are actually quite strong."

"I believe that many Republicans were very effective at digital organizing strategy as well, whereas the Democratic Party is still campaigning largely as though it's 2005. And I know a lot of us don't want to hear this, but 2005 was 15 years ago. So we can do better."

Ocasio-Cortez told the New York Times earlier this week she tried to help swing district Democrats.

"And every single one of them, but five, refused my help. And all five of the vulnerable or swing district people that I helped secured victory or are on a path to secure victory."

[lapucelle]

40. It's important that folks research a candidate's platform as articulated,

outlined, and detailed on the platform page of an official campaign website.

I'm sure A0C knew her own platform better than the pundits on Good Morning America. A0C can speak for herself. She doesn't need pundits (real or imagined) telling folks what she "really" meant.



https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues#real-public-safety

[PTWB]

41. This is awesome!

Despite completely failing to digest the post you were responding to, you managed to say something that totally supported it!

You wrote: "AOC can speak for herself."

AOC did speak for herself in the article I linked, which is accompanied by a video (if listening is easier for you than reading, since you refused to do that) - AOC said that she wasn't aware of a single candidate for who campaigned on socialism or defunding the police.

Surely you are not denying AOC the agency to determine what she herself campaigned on. Are you?

[ebbie15644]

19. I literally remember screaming at the tv when I heard defund

The police. What was wrong with saying reform.

[gulliver]

20. The protests were the root problem.

They went on too long and were not fronted by our first string messengers. So-called "protests" are an outmoded communication technology. Past a certain freshness date (maybe a day), they do nothing but massive damage to their own side. They let the Republicans choose the very most foolish on our side (looters and "defund the police" framing bunglers) as representing our side.

[PufPuf23]

21. "Defund the police" was a poor choice of slogan for a grab bag

of issues for LE to better serve the people.

Bad initial impression of the protests and misleading by the corporate media.

One wonders about the provenance of the slogan and how, once noticed, the slogan was pushed by MSM.

Note how now the slogan is already being used by some Democrats against other Democrats.

[tritsofme]

22. This should have been self evident.

That anyone legitimately thought that sort of framing would be anything but destructive is extremely puzzling.

[MineralMan]

27. Republican candidates up and down the ballot used that in their ads

constantly, especially as the time before the election shrank. Was it successful for them? Perhaps in some cases, particularly in some House districts and state legislative races.

Never mind that none of those Democratic candidates promoted dismantling the police. It didn't matter. People on the fence saw that issue as something that Democrats wanted. It may have shifted some races toward the Republicans. Even in Minnesota, where the whole Defund the Police thing started, it proved very unpopular generally.

A bad choice of words, I believe.

[sarisataka]

29. Perhaps my memory is failing

but wasn't this discussed through the summer and leading to the election? The consensus was reform has been tried and failed. We need to use defund and not to worry, it will help in the election more than harm.

The only point of contention was did defund equate to eliminate? Most agreed it did not mean entirely eliminate the police, though others insisted that is exactly what was meant.

[andym]

30. They didn't support defunding the police

but the Right-wing propaganda and ad network pinned it on them anyway.

[lapucelle]

34. That's Clyburn's point.

Congressman James Clyburn (D- SC) has been taking a victory lap of sorts, given how his endorsement of Joe Biden during the Democratic primary catapulted the former vice president towards the nomination and now the presidency.

But Clyburn is making it clear that he thinks some of the rhetoric from more liberal Democrats hurt candidates in the election by allowing Republicans to tie things like “defund the police” to them.

“Jaime Harrison started to plateau when ‘Defund the Police’ showed up with a caption on TV right across his head,” Clyburn said. “That stuff hurt Jaime. And that’s why I spoke out against it a long time ago.”

snip=======================================================================

“I just hope that going forward, we will think about each one of these congressional districts and let people represent their district,” he added. “Let’s recognize that people should reflect that diversity in our country.”

[loyalsister]

38. The bigger problem is

all the criticism that should be directed at a system of white supremacy is directed at oppressed people.