They are talking about presidential pardons for everyone.

[LiberalFighter]

And Trump intending to step down so that Pence can pardon him.

If that were the case and those in the administration in addition to Trump were pardoned could Pence be on the hook for charges?

Would those pardons be legitimate if the purpose is to avoid charges?

[mzmolly]

1. Who's covering this?

I understand that Trump can pardon himself? I imagine Pence could as well.

[coti]

2. Don't know how the idea that Trump can pardon himself started

going around. To me that is self-evidently corrupt and not the purpose of the pardon power.

[mzmolly]

5. I agree. But Trump

isn’t interested intent, I don’t imagine.

[SomedayKindaLove]

10. I think this idea started because it isn't specifically mentioned in the Constitution

That a sitting President can’t pardon himself. They think they’ve found a loophole in the 244 year old document. But I’m sure he’ll have Pence pardon him. Maybe they can have a pardon party at the WH for one last super-spreader get-together.

[Thekaspervote]

3. Neil Katyal US solicitor general during Obama administration says no, trump cannot pardon himself

Which is good! He wants a pardon, he’s going to have to resign and have pence pardon him. Just that many fewer days of his criminal cabal

[mzmolly]

4. Interesting.

Many proverbial experts suggest otherwise. Regardless, it’s not a good look given he’s supposedly eyeing a 2024 run.

[EndlessWire]

29. OMG! Please say it isn't so!

PLEASE, my Lord G-d, don't bring this pr*ck back in 2024. Nor any member of his stupid family! Please, the American people can't take another vicious campaign of terror from this miserable ratfucker, devoid of any conscious or soul.

Please G-d, hear my prayer, and if it's your will that this slimeball returns, please at least make me strong and healthy, and maybe impoverish him and his so he can never raise his ugly orange head above the swampland again.

Amen.

[unblock]

9. If he wanted to push his luck, pence could do it in an hour.

[George II]

6. New York Attorney General Letitia James and District Attorney Cy Vance are looming in the distance.

[Blue Owl]

7. So then tRump wouldn't even be a one-term president

How humiliating that would be

[unblock]

8. The pardons are almost surely valid.

Self-pardons are questionable, but I expect Donnie to let pence be president for a day do pence can pardon Donnie.

If there's a crime involved, such as bribery, then act might be something a president is criminally liable for, but the pardon still would likely stand.

Note that Donnie could solicit and accept bribes for pardons, then when he resigns so pence can be president for a day, pence could pardon Donnie for anything he did while president, or hell, since birth, and that would include the bribery he had just committed.

The pardon power is a dangerous tool of corruption in the wrong hands.

[tritsofme]

16. I suppose theoretically Trump would not have to resign, like Bush he could go for a colonoscopy

or something, and formally transfer power under the 25th amendment for a short time, during which Pence, as acting president, could issue the pardon.

[unblock]

18. Brilliant

Seems obvious now that you mention it. Absolutely, that would work.

[TwilightZone]

11. Who are "they"?

Some context would be helpful.

Trump isn't going to step down. He's likely convinced himself that he can self-pardon and doesn't need Pence.

[Patterson]

13. "They" probably hundreds of Trumpers in the government.

[Boogiemack]

12. He can't get pardoned for that rape case that will be facing him. And I expect

there may be a few more charges from past sexual encounters once he is out of office.

[Cicada]

14. A smart Pence would agree then reneg on the pardon

Pence will run for President in 2024. A pardon of Trump would cost him votes but being President would add to his stature. So promise Trump to pardon him, then stiff him.

[jmowreader]

20. Your scenario would also cost him votes

It would demonstrate that Pence couldn't be trusted.

If I was one of Trump's lawyers, I would convince him to neither pardon anyone nor to seek one for himself. A pardon (1) admits guilt, (2) doesn't apply to state crimes, and except for his tax fraud his crimes were against the people of New York state, and (3) would be legally questionable if it read something like "any crimes or misdemeanors Mr. Trump may or may not have committed at any time in his life." Instead, I would promise him that any jury would be set up so there were at least three Trump supporters on it. Trump could go to one of his supporters' homes, eat the leftover pizza in the fridge, drink all the beer, then shit on the kitchen floor in front of them and they'd still think he was wonderful.

"Marvel! Put that damned mop away and bring me my Skil Saw. We're a'gonna frame that piece of crapped-on linoleum and hang it in the living room right above the TV!"

"The fuck we are, Fred...I don't care whose it is, I am NOT hanging shit on my living room wall and you are NOT going to cut a damn hole in my kitchen floor. Besides, I voted for Biden."

[Cicada]

25. You are right except that getting 3 Trumpsters on a DC jury is hard

Trump supporters probably support him because they believe his lies. Even if you somehow find a Trumpster juror in DC or Manhattan that person is probably honest but misguided. In a trial facts are presented and lies are revealed as lies. A juror will see clear undeniable proof of tax fraud. Trump, as an example, said the occupancy rate at 40 Wall Street was 92% on a bank loan application but at a date only 5 weeks different he said it was 78% for a property tax evaluation. Leases and bank records prove it was 92% both times. That is undeniable proof of property tax fraud. Most Trump supporters are not dishonest, they are just misinformed. I think there is a good chance a jury in DC or Manhattan would convict. Not that I really care. I just want him out of office. His personal life is actually a trivial matter in the big scheme.

You are right that my comment about Pence was stupid. I really just meant it as a sort of a humorous comment.

[jmowreader]

27. Could Trump request a change of venue to outside the city?

I suspect if he could get his trial moved to Jefferson or Lewis Counties, he could find Trumpers willing to ignore evidence. There are a LOT of Republicans up there.

[Cicada]

30. Change of venue requires a good reason

[jmowreader]

31. A good lawyer could argue Trump will never...

...receive a fair trial in New York City, and he’d have a point: Trump is so hated in New York many people would decide to vote guilty without hearing the evidence. I can see the void dire...

“Candidate 38275, can you put aside your preconceived notions of the defendant and render a fair verdict in this case?”

“Yes.”

“Candidate 38275, are you just saying that so you can get on the jury panel and throw Donald Trump in jail whether he did it or not?”

“How did you know?”

“Why do you think we’ve called thirty-eight thousand jury candidates?”

[BlueLucy]

15. Who is talking?

Who are you talking about?

[LuvLoogie]

17. Pardon trump for what, though.

Has he been charged with any federal crimes? What are they going to pardon him for. Don't they have to mention a specific crime?

[tritsofme]

19. No, Nixon was pardoned for all federal crimes that he "has committed or may have committed"

during his presidency.

[jmowreader]

21. And there was a massive investigation to unveil most of them

Nixon resigned after the Watergate Hearings. By the time they were over, a decent list of Nixon's corruption was in hand. The Trump investigations haven't even started yet.

[greyl]

22. Yeah, but State's Rights, lol. nt

[RainCaster]

23. A pardon means admitting guilt...

... which the states will appreciate in their actions against Fat Nixon.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

24. How can people be pardoned for crimes for which they have not been charged?

KY.......... ........

[eShirl]

26. Ask Gerald Ford.

[jmowreader]

28. The Nixon pardon is not germane to this situation

They were busy typing up the Articles of Impeachment when Nixon resigned. The investigations were over and it was well known Nixon, contrary to his famous statement, was a crook.

A serious investigation of Trump's criminality hasn't even begun.