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[skip fox]

This message was self-deleted by its author (skip fox) on Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:11 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Proud liberal 80]

1. About PA passing a law

Couldn’t the Democratic governor veto it?

Edit - btw, I think this was Trump’s plan all along in PA, but he didn’t expect Arizona or Georgia to vote for Biden

[Proud liberal 80]

6. No they don't have a veto proof majority

[DeminPennswoods]

19. I believe in Pennsylvania, it's the governor who calls

special sessions of the state legislature. The state house and state senate can decide when they want to be in session, though. They can pass whatever bills they want, but Gov Wolf will veto them and they do not have enough votes to override that.

Further, if you look at the Pennsylvania ballot. The vote for president is not for the candidate himself, but for the electors of that candidate. Techically, Joe Biden's electors got 3-however many M votes in Pennsylvania, not Joe Biden.

[Lasher]

55. So PA Governor Tom Wolf (D) refuses to call a special session and it's game over, right?

[Sugarcoated]

123. What does your last sentence mean?

[DeminPennswoods]

124. On the ballot it clearly

says "vote for the Electors of (candidate)". So while voters checked Biden, Trump or minor party candidate, they are actually voting for that candidate's slate of electors.

[obamanut2012]

7. Yes, he can veto it

And, I agree with your edit 100%. They may have been able to mess up one state's counts, but three or more? Nope.

[obamanut2012]

10. I just checked, and there's no veto-proof number

in the PA Leg.

[DownriverDem]

22. Need new lawyers

Come on.

[empedocles]

2. Nice inside summary. Hope you will keep up posted.

[Mike 03]

4. Recommended

And thank you for posting this.

[DFW]

5. Not necessarily a good sign

McTurtle and Barr are ruthless cheaters to whom power is more important than popular will or any law. They idolize Stalin, not Jefferson or Madison.

[Fullduplexxx]

29. Right after the visit the turtle ran to a mic and said trump had every right to pursue litigation

[Fullduplexxx]

30. Right after the visit the turtle ran to a mic and said trump had every right to pursue litigation

[Native]

8. Thanks for this update. Loved hearing the aside about the "parking lot"!

[SheltieLover]

11. K&R!

Many thanks to youe son & his firm and to you for sharing this.

[UCmeNdc]

12. Wow! K&R

[Cicada]

13. Relax. Repub legislative leaders in PA have said they will not go rogue.

The Republican heads of both chambers in PA published a joint oped in which they say they will not overturn the vote, and provide legal reasons why they can’t over turn the state laws, and why they should not do that. No PA, no Trump presidency. And think about the politics to a state legislator. They have control of their legislative body, which they care about more than Trump. They have power and don’t want to lose it. If they overturn the vote of the people they will face powerful negative ads in their next election. So some republicans in closely divided districts will refuse to vote to throw democracy under the bus. And the PA Supreme Court is five Dems, two republicans, as a backup.

[femmedem]

15. Very reassuring! Where did they publish the op-ed?

I'd love to read it.

[Cicada]

20. Link to op ed

https://www.centredaily.com/opinion/article246527648.html

[femmedem]

25. Thanks! They are 100% unequivocal.

"We have said it many times and we will happily say it again: The Pennsylvania General Assembly does not have and will not have a hand in choosing the state’s presidential electors or in deciding the outcome of the presidential election.

To insinuate otherwise is to inappropriately set fear into the Pennsylvania electorate with an imaginary scenario not provided for anywhere in law — or in fact.

Pennsylvania law plainly says that the state’s electors are chosen only by the popular vote of the commonwealth’s voters."

No way they'll walk back from that.

[Cicada]

24. Michigan, Wisconsin, PA Trump GA, AZ, NV

[Mr.Bill]

125. Lindsay (and many others)

are being bribed, blackmailed or more likely both.

[DeminPennswoods]

21. We have a few GOP crazies like Metcalfe and Diamond,

but for now the majority of state legislature Rs, while conservative, are not crazy.

[durablend]

50. Unfortunately

I wouldn't trust a Republican's "word" as far as I can spit. We all know they'll say one thing then the next day go in the complete opposite direction and say that what they'd said the day before "never happened"

[Cicada]

58. Think about a state legislator's self interest

A vote to ignore the majority vote and replace democracy with legislative dictate will lead to crushing negative ads the next election. And a Republican legislator in PA doesn’t have much interest in national politics. Local and state issues have far more impact on local elections.

[calimary]

67. republi-CONS. It's what they DO. NOT what they SAY.

I don’t trust them - AT ALL.

[Orrex]

70. Thank you for this

[femmedem]

14. The plan as you outline it seems right to me

and I'm glad that Biden's legal team is anticipating it and taking it seriously.

I look forward to your updates, but I hope it is ok with your son that you post elements of these conversations here.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. I think GA has passed above the 0.25% threshold that triggers an automatic recount, so one less prob

[gab13by13]

32. I'm not worried about a recount,

but I thought the threshold was 0.5%

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. I think it is that in other states. Prob w recounts is the DELAY, their main strategy per OP

Delay by any means is tRump's standard technique, especially delay by litigation. Death by a thousand briefs and appeals.

If they can delay certification by recounts and other means, they keep other options open in the courts. Not that they've had any success that way: 12 losses, no wins, so far for them. Alito's order for PA to separate ballots was followed (despite claims on RW sites that it was ignored) and the ballots segregated are not enough to overcome Biden's margin even if they were all disallowed.

[DLCWIdem]

93. PA was already sequesterring those ballots anyway.

[zackymilly]

118. The threshold in GA is less than or equal to 0.5%.

These recounts may be conducted before the certification of election results. A losing candidate may also request a recount if the margin is less than or equal to 0.5%. This threshold was set in 2019 following the passage of H.B. 319. Georgia's official website describing its recount rules contains outdated information. There are no set deadlines for the completion of a candidate-requested recount.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. You are right. No automatic recount, but within 0.5% campaign can request a recount

https://ballotpedia.org/Recount_laws_in_Georgia

[Duncan Grant]

18. Bookmarked (nt)

[spanone]

23. Thanks for posting this....

[Tommymac]

27. This whole Trumpian legal effort is a $cam. They are dialing for dollars.

Read the fine print on the ads asking for $$ for the legal fund...60% goes directly to pay off Trumps 2020 campaign debt, the other 40% goes to the Repthuglican National Party.

No mention of lawyers getting anything at all.



GOTV GA

[bucolic_frolic]

28. A coup will not go down well

[DFW]

34. Those who perpetrate a coup rarely care what others think

They care what they think, what people like them think, and what people who give them money think.

[Chicago1980]

31. Thing is...

Are there actually credible charges of fraud and irregularities?

Republicans may scream that, but Secretaries of States, even the republican ones have stated an open and transparent process.

The guy from Georgia clapped back at the two senators who accused him of mismanaging the vote.

[USALiberal]

38. You sons law firm would be ok with you posting this?

[uponit7771]

40. +1

[Ms. Toad]

84. Behind the scenes knowledge is generally part of attorney-client privilege. n/t

[Karma13612]

47. 👍 +1 nt

[obamanut2012]

48. No

[cwydro]

64. Seems unlikely, doesn't it?

[Thekaspervote]

65. Very good point.. can we really stop with this please. There is so much anxiety already

[bdamomma]

101. wouldn't this

information be confidential??

[bdamomma]

106. Your

post and comment is noted.

[obamanut2012]

108. Yes,the OP's son is breaking client-attorney

Ethically, he should not be discussing this case at all with his parent.

NAL but have worked in law, and count many attorneys as friends.

[cwydro]

115. Seems beyond doubt that the firm wouldn't appreciate this being out on a message board.

Seems a bad idea all around.

[kcr]

111. Yep, I seriously doubt they'd be okay with this

Which is why I'm skeptical of the OP

[USALiberal]

113. Me too! Nt

[gab13by13]

35. Andrew Weismann explained this last night,

What Barr did was unprecedented. Usually a prosecutor has to find criminality before pursuing a case. What Barr did was allow prosecutors to pursue irregularities, which means mistakes or other minor issues which can then be given the appearance of fraud.

Bill Barr is back, he isn't Trump's lawyer, he is Trump's consigliere.

[ananda]

60. As far as I know so far, the Republican leaders in the states..

have publicly reiterated that there has been virtually no fraud.

[DLCWIdem]

95. Its more than a clap back

They called on him to resign. If he doesn't stand by his own election count he looks guilty and his career in his own Republican party will be over.

[GreenEyedLefty]

36. Trump is getting exactly what he wants.

All of the attention and media scrutiny on HIM.

His recalcitrance is ginning up his base and the dollars are flowing into his coffers. It's all part of the grift.

We should take inspiration from Joe Biden and quietly go about OUR business and support the transition.

FUCK TRUMP and his cronies. Grifters are gonna grift, there was never any reason to think differently.

[matt819]

41. Also

While I have not read much about the Biden legal teams actions lately, we can’t rule out their responses. That said, while I may be missing stuff, reporting on them seems to be somewhat muted.

[Amaryllis]

107. STaying somewhat muted may be part of their strategy. He's got lots of very smart people on his team

[Jarqui]

42. NYT has surveyed the states

None of the states are reporting issues with fraud.

When the canvassing of the election in each state ends, that's when complaints get dealt with. If the complainant isn't happy, they can complain in court and appeal that, etc - unusual to reach the Supreme Court.

Then there is a recount and recanvass incorporating the election/legal decisions of the complaints. Now, some states legislatures are expressing a desire to audit the results.

The Electoral College votes Dec 14th.

What Trump seems to be doing is planning to carpet bomb the states and their courts with complaints to overwhelm them so that they cannot arrive as a decision before the Electoral College votes. Hannity revealed 11,000 incidents in 500 affidavits last night. After his show, they'll probably get lots more. Rudy is filing something in Michigan today. Other have been filing in other states.

Trump's game can not be to win a decision - because with no fraud, he can't substantially expect to. His game seems to be to create overwhelming circumstances to make rendering a decision impossible to do in the short time frame. Like many of his legal maneuvers as President, he doesn't have to win - just run out the clock. The trick is whether he can ask enough legal questions that have a shred of legitimacy to overwhelm them, appeal them to the highest courts to drag them out, etc. He's muddying the verdict of the voters - which then leaves it to the legislatures (mostly GOP) to either make the decision in legally murky circumstances (so they'll say) or not send Electors. If Biden doesn't get 270 votes in the Electoral College, Trump can win it in the House (one vote per state).

The key to defeat this is expeditiously shoot down these claims. And counter it in the media with exposure.
A big one the courts use is "could this change the outcome of the election?" so a single complaint over a single vote won't do it. It has to be a broader issue.
Legal smoke screen is coming. We need legal leaf blowers out in force.

I once asked my learned history professor "Since the US Constitution was written mostly by lawyers, how did the US legal system get so screwed up relative to other countries with British common law?"
He answered, "Son, that is a rhetorical question".

[scipan]

110. Can't plaintiffs be fined for filing frivolous lawsuits?

I'm fairly sure judges have this power.

Maybe money will become important later in this process.

[JGug1]

43. Legislative Action

This may or may not be a conspiracy theory. No intention to diss your son.
The governor of Georgia has already declined to call the legislature into special session, so that part is null and void.
Do not misunderstand me. There is absolutely no question that Trump will look for a way to a second term. My suspicion is that his actions so far have been to have the military available in the event that some glitch is found that seems to reverse the election. He is thinking, "what would I do if I were them," and acting accordingly. Do it first.

[Maeve]

44. Attempted coup

But one I have to believe will fail. The center will hold.

[bluedigger]

51. So it all comes down to who lands on free parking.

[SunsetDreams2]

52. I mean no disrespect to your OP

Please don’t take it that way. I have given it some thought prior to reading your OP and I agree with you. There may be an attempted coup going on.

Where I take issue with your OP is in a few areas. The 1st being in the title. “ My son is one of Biden's lawyers in GA and he says a coup is in progress”

Then in your 1st paragraph you state “ I outlined the plan below to him and he agreed with every part.”

Is it possible that instead of your son saying definitively that a coup was in progress that when you outlined your plan, he may have just stated or meant that it was a possibility?

If he is one of Biden’s lawyers in Georgia or any state, I think we need to be careful here of implying that is coming from him (as in your title) and not just simply agreeing that it could be a possibility. The charge of there being a coup in progress is serious. While you and I may think there is one going on with everything the Trump administration/campaign is doing, what we think and say comes across a lot differently than when a lawyer for Biden’s campaign says it.

Maybe I’m reading your OP wrong. If so, I apologize. I would love to give it a Rec, because I do agree with you.

[woodsprite]

53. Could you explain to me the line about thiniking Biden will prevail, but trump could still win?

How could Biden prevail but Trump still win?

I will admit that this is the first thing I read this morning, no coffee yet and had little sleep last night due to a sick puppers, but when I read that line, I went "Huh?".

[woodsprite]

59. Thanks! That makes for less brain sommersaults this a.m. :) nt

[Thekaspervote]

62. SCOTUS ruled just b4 the election that the state legislature has total power over the elections and

Election law.

The GOP majority leader in PA has said they will not overrule the popular vote

https://whyy.org/articles/as-legal-challenges-fizzle-pa-gop-reaffirms-it-will-not-seek-to-override-popular-vote/

You really think SCOTUS is going to go along with such a bogus plan?

[intrepidity]

119. I thought the June SCOTUS ruling said they *cannot* change the law after the election?

What am I missing?

The State Leg can change how Electors are assigned, but ONLY BEFORE the election.

[oldsoftie]

63. Funny thing; my trumper friends are screaming for Kemp & the SoS to resign!!

They say that THEY are participating in the "democrats fraud"

[Turin_C3PO]

66. I certainly think Trump and co. are attempting

to steal this election but I see almost no way it will happen. Even if their suits were successful, it wouldn't change the result. And I really don't see 37 electors flipping for Trump.
The true danger is that 30% of Americans are going to believe Biden is only in office due to fraud. That's not good for a democracy because having faith in elections is a critical element in democratic societies.

[Mickeyc1004]

68. I do believe that a coup d'tat is in progress

I am really not the sort of person to get worried about events that occur during an election.

However this election, to use a slang, has got me feeling some kind of a way.

So much so that I researched last night and found lots of legitimate articles that are reminiscent of what you are describing.

There is a little known YouTube channel

https://m.youtube.com/watch?pbjreload=101&v=a6--DDMBiQA

That speaks about the 12th amendment.

Appears to me, that a lot of what Trump has done leading up to, and after the election, has been leading up to what this video, and some articles I found talks about.

The reason I am saying this here is, I think we all need to be aware of what may be possible, and to make sure if it occurs that it's in the light of day, and that people come out in mass and protest, and fill the streets, to make sure it doesn't happen.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

94. This

He's trying to delay it until the 12th amendment comes into play.

I may be paranoid/chicken-little-omg-the-sky-is-falling, but combine that with his moves in the Dept of Defense and we're in a lot of trouble.

I hear people keep saying that as of 12 pm on Jan 20th, 2021 he's out of a job.

The only problem with that is that the entire system requires everyone to be good faith actors and go along with the rules. Do you expect Mitch McConnell et. al. to go along with the rules?

[Thekaspervote]

72. If this is so obvious, then why aren't the news outlets covering it..seriously

“Trump is the loser, and barr can’t change that

[USALiberal]

76. +1000 nt

[Pepsidog]

73. I don't get the parking spots in Atlanta issue.

[Kaleva]

75. What you wrote in Step 1 of the Plan isn't accurate

Barr didnt instruct DOJ to investigate. He gave authority to do so but with conditions.

[Kaleva]

92. I think he may be trying to appease Trump

But that's just a guess

[philf99]

78. Pelosi

Read somewhere that Pelosi has prepared for this scenario.

Anyone know what her response would be?

[boston bean]

81. I think what you are doing here, if true, is a major disservice to your son.

[obamanut2012]

109. +1

I don't get why more posters aren't getting this.

[cwydro]

117. I agree, especially since the OP's profile makes it obvious who he is, if someone wanted to look.

I doubt the son would appreciate it, same with his firm.

[Baitball Blogger]

83. Is this something that should stay on DU, or can we use clips on other sites?

Including removing the name of the lawfirm?

[cwydro]

122. You already put the name out there.

No idea why you’d do that.

[ancianita]

86. When you say "run out the clock," are you talking about governors' certification deadline?

What deadlines are you referring to? Any deadline up to and including January 20?

I ask because I've no idea how many clocks this strategy can run out.

[ancianita]

91. I read that. But I'm asking about which clock exists beyond December 14th.

The reason I ask is because Trump can't stop governors from certifying their voters' counts.

He can go to courts but will lose because courts constitutionally uphold the sovereignty of governors and The People over one chief executive.

What I'm thinking is that governors are The People's Ace card -- for certification and ensuring the Electoral College honors the current 290 that Biden holds.

[Progressive dog]

87. That is not going to happen.

There is no coup in progress. In PA, the governor can and will veto a new law. GA is just icing on the cake and even criminals who would subvert our democracy are not going to risk the consequences if their coup doesn't work.

[FakeNoose]

90. K & R bookmarking - Thanks for this great info!

I love DU because our members believe in sharing their knowledge.

[Meowmee]

96. I have to ask why you keep publicizing

The name of the firm and client information which he has apparently told you. This is not supposed to be shared.

[Meowmee]

98. Where is all of this published

Can you provide a link?

[Meowmee]

102. So you can't provide a link?

Then it is not published and shouldn’t be posted here imo.

[Meowmee]

105. There is nothing ill tempered in what I said

[USALiberal]

114. Your story is questionable without proof! Nt

[cwydro]

116. Yeah, this whole thing is seeming a bit dubious.

If true, it doesn’t belong out here on a message board.

[mtnsnake]

120. True. BTW, this thread has already been picked up by some internet blog called Cannonfire

https://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2020/11/my-son-is-one-of-bidens-lawyers-in-ga.html

[cwydro]

121. Yikes.

Not good.

[cwydro]

127. I've already stated I think your OP is probably a risky thing to post, as have many others here.

If right wing websites get hold of it...

But hey, you want to put your son out there, guess that’s up to you.

[TheRickles]

128. But it's a Dem-ish site

"The first site to expose the Putin/Trump connection". But it would be nice if the OP provided a link to show that lawyers' names are indeed public knowledge. It's too important an issue to let feelings override thoroughness.

[kcr]

112. Sorry, not buying it