Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 10:55 AM Nov 2020

Alaska, one of the most reliably Republican state in our union is also THE most Socialist.

Alaska has a Republican governor and two Republican senators. It's home to Sarah Palin. They reliably vote Republican in presidential elections.

YET....Alaska is THE most SOCIALIST state in our union, by far.

The Alaska Permanent Fund (APF) is a constitutionally established permanent fund managed by a state-owned corporation, the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation (APFC).[1] It was established in Alaska in 1976[2] by Article 9, Section 15 of the Alaska State Constitution[3] under Governor Jay Hammond and Attorney General Avrum Gross. From February 1976 until April 1980, the Department of Revenue Treasury Division managed the state's Permanent Fund assets, until, in 1980, the Alaska State Legislature created the APFC.[4]

As of 2019, the fund was worth approximately $64 billion that has been funded by oil revenues and has paid out an average of approximately $1,600 annually per resident (adjusted to 2019 dollars).[5] The main use for the fund's revenue has been to payout the Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD), which many authors portray as the only example of a Basic Income in practice.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

Socialism for me not for thee.
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Alaska, one of the most reliably Republican state in our union is also THE most Socialist. (Original Post) Yavin4 Nov 2020 OP
Yep moose65 Nov 2020 #1
Income redistribution is NOT socialism. My Pet Orangutan Nov 2020 #3
OTOH if Alaska was a Democrat controlled state, the repukes would be calling it communism. nt mtnsnake Nov 2020 #9
That's not socialism. It IS, however, effectively a basic income program. Hortensis Nov 2020 #2
AK provides a very useful example of wealth distribution Hortensis Nov 2020 #4
Yes all true! FakeNoose Nov 2020 #6
Umhm, and not bad for people with comparatively limited opportunities. Hortensis Nov 2020 #11
I wish people would stop throwing the word socialism around BainsBane Nov 2020 #5
Yes... Spazito Nov 2020 #7
and Social Democrat BainsBane Nov 2020 #13
Exactly... Spazito Nov 2020 #15
Alaskans have an ownership stake in a private corporation. Yavin4 Nov 2020 #8
It's dividends BainsBane Nov 2020 #12
It has a lot to do with religous nutcases that are against the Democrats Jspur Nov 2020 #10
I don't understand why Carville thought we had a shot at that Senate seat. Nt helpisontheway Nov 2020 #14

moose65

(3,166 posts)
1. Yep
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:04 AM
Nov 2020

And unlike all of the things Republicans scream about, the Permanent Fund IS socialism. The money is collected by the state and held by a corporation owned by the state, then redistributed to everyone, regardless of income. Pure socialism!

Alaska also has a TON of public land, owned either by the national park service or other public entities, as well as a huge military presence. It’s full of people employed by the government they supposedly hate.

In fact, I don’t think many people could survive in Alaska without a large government presence. Just another example of Republican hypocrisy.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
2. That's not socialism. It IS, however, effectively a basic income program.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:30 AM
Nov 2020

It's important to realize that the means of production is capitalist energy corporations. They pay the government for the right to extract and sell, and the government redistributes some of that income to residents of AK.

Btw, as U.S. citizens we all "own" many national resources that are leased and otherwise capitalized to business to provide a secondary source of income (after taxes) for our nation. This isn't socialism either. The difference between this and AK's APF is that none of this income is paid to citizens directly and specifically as a share of the profits from allowing logging, grazing, etc., on our lands.

Maybe we should arrange for some of that to happen, but if we do, like AK's program, it will be part of a distribution of wealth in a capitalism-based system, not socialism.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
4. AK provides a very useful example of wealth distribution
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:31 PM
Nov 2020

under capitalism, proving it's extremely possible. That's just one of many possible methods.

What's CRITICAL for those who want a better share to know is that capitalism produces FAR MORE WEALTH to share around than the weak economic engine of socialism ever could. Further, that the costs of sustainable industry are the same for both capitalism and socialism, only the amounts of wealth produced very different.

Democrats in the 1930s used various methods to create broad prosperity and an ever-growing middle class by sharing the profits of capitalism, their "New Deal." Fifty and sixty years later voters were suckered into obligingly helping or just allowing their efforts to be dismantled, starting in 1980. So we have to do it all over again.

But another CRITICAL BUT REALLY GOOD piece of information for people who want a bigger share is that, thanks to greatly increased production technology, our nation also already has far, far, far more wealth to redistribute than in 1980. It's more than quadrupled and far more than we need to retool to sustainability and still be widely prosperous. That new wealth is where the new centimillionaire and billionaire classes we have to legislate out of existence came from. (Note Pelosi on that below.)

FakeNoose

(32,634 posts)
6. Yes all true!
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:44 PM
Nov 2020

Please keep reminding DU - these are very important distinctions.

Alaska has oil wealth up the wazoo, but very little commerce and almost no manufacturing base. Their tax base is tiny compared to the lower 48 states. The income redistribution program works well in Alaska because of the relatively small population it needs to support, and the absence of ultra-wealthy one-per-centers who constantly scheme to steal it.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
11. Umhm, and not bad for people with comparatively limited opportunities.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:15 PM
Nov 2020

A number of states are wealthier or as wealthy per capita, and of course our nation is by far the wealthiest on the planet.

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
5. I wish people would stop throwing the word socialism around
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:37 PM
Nov 2020

particularly when nothing they talk about is remotely socialist. What purpose do you think it serves other than to give the GOP ammunition?

If you want to know what socialism is, read Marx. The post office is not socialist. Public highways are not socialist. And the mechanism you talk about is not socialist.
Socialism is when workers control the means of production, when capital no longer exploits (makes profit from) workers. From each according to their ability to each according to their needs.

Spazito

(50,327 posts)
7. Yes...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:50 PM
Nov 2020

and those who choose to identify themselves as Democratic Socialists don't realize their descriptor is a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron.

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
13. and Social Democrat
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:47 PM
Nov 2020

is closer to what they are, and social democrats tend to be centrist parties.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
8. Alaskans have an ownership stake in a private corporation.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:50 PM
Nov 2020

That is indeed Socialism, or at the very least, one form of Socialism.

BainsBane

(53,032 posts)
12. It's dividends
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:46 PM
Nov 2020

as long as the larger economy remains capitalism, the system is not socialist.

Share holders own corporations. Does that make them socialist?

According to this logic, socialism means nothing--absolutely nothing. The faux leftist bastardization of the word does great harm to the concept of socialism.

If you want socialism, you have to overthrow capitalism. MARX, MARX, MARX.

Jspur

(578 posts)
10. It has a lot to do with religous nutcases that are against the Democrats
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:09 PM
Nov 2020

because the Democrats don't agree with their oppressive religious views. That's why socialist ideas can be very popular as long as it's not coming from a Democrat.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Alaska, one of the most r...