Bill Kristol - FWIW, my takeaway from conversations last night with recent DOD senior officials

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Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
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FWIW, my takeaway from conversations last night with recent DOD senior officials:
1) DOD under Esper has pushed back more than many people realize against many Trump ideas, ranging from use of troops here at home, to Afghan withdrawal, to military options re Iran.
7:04 AM · Nov 11, 2020

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Short thread.
FWIW, my takeaway from conversations last night with recent DOD senior officials:

1) DOD under Esper has pushed back more than many people realize against many Trump ideas, ranging from use of troops here at home, to Afghan withdrawal, to military options re Iran.

2) Chris Miller's career has been entirely in counter-terrorism, and Trump knows him in that context from his job at NSC. "Totally out of his depth" for broad responsibilities as Sec Def--but if Trump wants to launch more Suleimani-like raids, it would sense to have Miller there.

3) Kash Patel will be most powerful person in building as COS to Sec Def. A Trump loyalist, he helped engineer these changes, and is very close to WH Trumpists like McEntee and Meadows. Patel a more effective operator than Miller, will effectively be running civilian side of DOD.

4) A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired.
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• • •

[catbyte]

1. All we have to do is survive the next 70 days or so...

[Hortensis]

4. :( We'll have to live with whatever comes. I'm worried about literal survival of others

until we get this raging narcissist and his extremist whisperers out of the WH.

There's more room behind my couch, if you'd like to join me.

[Wawannabe]

5. Come on. You and I know that is bullshit!

All we had to do before was fire him on Nov 3. Did that ! ....and now we have to wait again?????

And it will be again and again and again.

I want out of this line of waiting! Fuck!

[catbyte]

6. Everybody knew he was going to pull this shit. What's the big surprise? His end date is

January 20, 2021, at 12:01 pm. And it's a hard exit date. So what did I say that was "bullshit?"

[OnDoutside]

11. Precisely, though one plus is that they have a record of being profoundly incompetent.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Trump is a russian asset, our enemy. He is destroying our defense capabilities and the GOP

is helping him.

Amazing what you fucking cons will support, you lurking fucking CONS

Not one of you can EVER say you are a patriot again, not one of you can EVER say you are a Reagan fan or McCain fan again.



fuckers

[ancianita]

20. +1000

Ditto! Fuck these treasonous ratfuckers and their ratfucker dictator!

[rwsanders]

24. Let them have Reagan and McCain. Both helped move things in this direction.

Both betrayed the nation.

Something I'd like to try sometime though, is ask a right-winger what they think of Eisenhower.

[C_U_L8R]

3. Firing those who clapped

It does not get more petty and disgusting than that.
Well, yes it does. But this just shows how small the Trumps are.

[crickets]

7. No kidding. Wow. nt

[2naSalit]

8. Total authoritarian.

[BigOleDummy]

14. THIS

Is what I was going to comment about. As a veteran, a proud veteran I might add, what this pathetic piece of shit is doing to our military forces astounds me. Scares me too actually. WHY ... I ask again WHY does he need "loyalists" at this stage of his failed tenure as chump in chief? I can think of a few reasons and each one scares me more than the last.

The gop and trumpists cannot EVER call themselves "Patriots" again imo. They are nothing more than a force hell bent on destroying our American ideals and democracy. WE as a party and as individuals need to start acting like the situation is as dire as it is. "It can't happen here"? Bullshit. We're watching it happen in real time.

[ancianita]

21. Also in real time, 77,033,649 Americans are the force he can't beat, and the DoD knows it.

[jaxexpat]

26. I ask this because you are a veteran of the military. I am not. I've no gut feeling about this.

What will happen when regular army personnel are ordered to threaten US citizens with weapons? To fire upon US citizens? To arrest US citizens? Will they obey?
The orders could come from either contestant, Trump loyalist or constitutional loyalist. They could be asked to attack fellow soldiers. Will they do it? Are there some troops who are more inclined to follow illegal orders than others? Do soldiers generally understand the difference?

Thanks

[johnnyfins]

31. I think it is either threatening citizens or starting a war and leaving it in Joe's hands

Orange Julius is so confident right now that he will "WIN".

If he has zero path with vote counts, he can either try to have a lot thrown out(damn near impossible with the leads Joe has and is building), or he goes after the electors. If it's the latter, it's absolute chaos and he will need the military to do his bidding. Remember, these ratfuckers don't play by the rules, norms and traditions don't mean shit to them.

Never in all my years on this planet did I ever think I would have to type the previous paragraph. At a minimum, the firings at DoD show that this admin is preparing for something

[jaxexpat]

35. Kind of hard not to hear the war drums.

Two Indians, ears to the RR tracks. "WHICH WAY'S THE STEEL HORSE COMING FROM?" "Your side."

[BigOleDummy]

32. Yes, we know the difference....

Yes, we were taught the difference between an illegal and legal order. Now.... the REST of your question is a little harder to answer tbh. I served two enlistments. The first I was in with some of the last draftees, the second all volunteer. I think the majority WILL disobey a direct illegal order. Now, a lot of the answer will depend on the individual AND their officers. In the Army, my branch of service, I had officers and NCO's who were dedicated and who truly understood our oaths and our fellow men. We also had a few who...... you could tell didn't. I have vast respect for the officer class myself. They are educated men who understand the Constitution and our limits under it. That is NOT to say that they are not subject to their own views and inclinations though. You will have some who will gleefully follow any order from Trump and his ilk. Yes, including shooting at us. (remember Kent State and Jackson State?) Also remember that almost all the lower ranks, i.e. vast majority of men/women, are very young. Some will follow orders no matter what. Some won't.

I have confidence in the training and make up of our Armed Forces to do the right thing BUT and this is a big but, you have trumpists there just like in civilian life. Also remember that the white supremacists and other assorted white nationalists have infiltrated not just our Police forces but our Armed Forces too. I have faith that most are weeded out but, can we be sure? No.

I wish I could give you a better answer but its like so much in life, there's no cut and dried final answer to your questions. Do I believe that MOST of our service men and women will heed their Constitutional oaths? Yes I do. Do I believe that ALL of them will? Sadly, no I don't. Our current chump in chief will tear our military apart just as he's torn our country apart.

Yes, our service members will attack fellow members if they see them as traitors. If they are commanded by the right ncos and officers. As far as are some more inclined to follow illegal orders.... that's hard to say. I just erased another small paragraph because that question is unanswerable for me. A lot of your questions really depend on individual temperament and above all their officers and nco's. The TOP leadership , think Colonels and up, know more about the horrors of war and the perils that a scenario involving essentially a civil war will entail than the civilian leadership will. MOST illegal orders will be stopped at command level in my opinion.

[jaxexpat]

34. Thanks so much, sir.

You confirm what my common sense tells me. We are on the razor's edge. God help us.

[BadgerMom]

19. John McEntee-remember the name.

He’s only 30. He’s a hardcore Trumpist. He’s behind these firings. At his age, he’ll be around poisoning the national well for a long, long time.

[Hekate]

28. It's not so much "petty" as it is Soviet, & the hallmark of every dictator who ever plagued humanity

[Patterson]

29. That's a very good nuanced point.

[tanyev]

9. Azzhole thinks he can nullify the election by pulling off a big terrorist kill/raid?

[flamingdem]

10. Who/what/where are the target/s?

Iran maybe.

[Lonestarblue]

12. He wants to destroy Iran so the Saudis will give him money to pay his debts.

Complete supposition, but Trump is not stupid enough to think the courts will overturn the election because of his unsupported claims of fraud. Courts, even the SC, require evidence, and he has none. Therefore, he has probably sold the idea of US military actions to benefit other countries in return for future money when he leaves office. That’s the only thing that makes sense. Kushner and MBS are best buds, and saner heads at the Pentagon probably would have said no to Trump’s plan to help the Saudis by getting rid or at least seriously weakening their enemy. There’s a reason Trump chose the Pentagon for his vindictiveness.

[WyattKansas]

13. For Christ's sake AMERICA and Democratic Party...

There needs to be a SERIOUS investigation and examination of what the fuck tRUMP and Republicans have been doing in this country to pervert and corrupt the hell out of it if any of this shit will ever stop and end. That includes naming names, sacking careers of wrongdoers, criminal prosecutions and all civil punishments, and banning them from any government position or any connection to contracts in the future. Enough is enough!

Who in the hell would argue that the BLOATED Defense budget would not have a better use of billions of dollars diverted to an extensive General Counsel Investigation instead to investigate and prosecute it along with cleaning up waste, fraud, and illegal behavior in the Department of Defense???

[bucolic_frolic]

15. "military options re Iran"

Yes, that's my worry. They're crazy enough to do this, just because ....... who knows.

[JohnnyRingo]

16. Nukes

Esper probably shunned the notion of a "limited" nuclear war with Iran.

[OMGWTF]

30. Traitor Tot is "renegotiating" our nuclear arms deal with Russia right fking now,

after just firing the guy whose job it was to keep them safe. Is he going to send Putin an early Xmas gift and give away our arms and top secret info? Hanging is too good for this criminal rat bastard.

[zentrum]

17. He's going to take us

….to war.

[CharleyDog]

18. Trump and Republicans more sick than we thought, and we knew he was sick, yet

this is MESSED up. And again? we have to watch him and Republicans do severe damage
and NO ONE can do anything.

the Joe chuckles, right now, are not enough.

(and what if Republicans allow/prod electors to vote for Trump. Is that a valid fear?)

[Duppers]

33. Yes, valid, imho. nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

22. The battles between fascists and patriots continue.

[SayItLoud]

23. Without question (IMO) tRUMP will launch some military action which will:

benefit Russia, Turkey or the Saudis. Any place he will be grifting for $ to pay off that 400 Million $ loan coming due AND to keep his sinking business somewhat afloat. Just sayin...

[James48]

25. The UAE

Watch for a huge arms deal announced with the UAE, followed immediately with a raid on Iranian targets along the Gulf coast. My money is on a strike that takes out several military bases in Iran, launched from the UAE.

[jaxexpat]

27. Not sure where any other war-for-profit scenario could play out?

We've pretty much pulled the easy fruit in the middle east and left the tree to die. Iran still stands on two legs and has the wealthiest, most corrupt enemies of all. It would be VERY risky and Trump WILL screw it up, but there would really be no profit in war anywhere else.

[Blue Owl]

36. I am so fucking goddamned sick of Donald fucking J. fucking tRump