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Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:08 PM

Timothy Snyder: Don't Underestimate Where This [Trump] Can Go


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/11/opinion/trumps-big-election-lie-pushes-america-toward-autocracy/?s_campaign=breakingnews:newsletter

snip


Underestimating Donald Trump is a mistake that people should not go on making. Laughing at him will not make him go away. If it did, he would have vanished decades ago. Nor will longstanding norms about how presidents behave make him go away. He is an actor and will stick to his lines: It was all a fraud, and he won “by a lot.” He was never defeated, goes the story; he was a victim of a conspiracy. This stab-in-the-back myth could become a permanent feature of American politics, so long as Trump has a bullhorn, be it on Fox or on RT (formerly Russia Today) — or, though Democrats might find this unthinkable, as an unelected president remaining in power.


After all, a claim that an election was illegitimate is a claim to remaining in power. A coup is under way, and the number of participants is not shrinking but growing. Few leading Republicans have acknowledged that the race is over. Important ones, such as Mitch McConnell and Mike Pompeo, appear to be on the side of the coup. We might like to think that this is all some strategy to find the president an exit ramp. But perhaps that is wishful thinking. The transition office refuses to begin its work. The secretary of defense, who did not want the army attacking civilians, was fired. The Department of Justice, exceeding its traditional mandate, has authorized investigations of the vote count. The talk shows on Fox this week contradict the news released by Fox last week. Republican lawmakers find ever new verbal formulations that directly or indirectly support Trump’s claims. The longer this goes on, the greater the danger to the Republic.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:11 PM

1. There is a lot of discussion here about this issue -

where I am in this moment is:

drumpf and his minions are attempting a coup.

while they will fail in the official sense, they will succeed in undermining the Biden admin's legitimacy - at least within a certain subset.

This is where efforts will be needed. Which I intend to pursue!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:24 PM

4. I couldn't have said it better.

I've never said the "coup" would succeed. My question all along is: How much damage to American credibility, stability, customs, norms and institutions are we willing to accept by pretending this isn't happening?

If the outcome is acceptable, did nothing happen? A lot is happening. I'm not waiting for something to happen. I'm watching something happen.

It's also terribly unfair to Biden and Harris.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:12 PM

2. We still have three things working in our favor...

His age, his health, and his diet. Bonus factor: He is a mortal human.

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:28 PM

6. That's only if he fails, and has to continue his message from out of power...

If he somehow manages to subvert the republic, and establish himself as president-for-life...well, his life expectancy is not that great in any event but, when he dies, you're going to see a struggle for succession between Junior and Ivanka that will make Game of Thrones look like A Midsummer Night's Dream.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:17 PM

3. IMO odds are ven he will pull it off. what happens then, who knows. I don't see much

action against it at this point.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:26 PM

5. I was just about to post this same article, myself. I think it's the best, most clear-eyed analysis

I've read, so far - and it scares the bejesus out of me.

Especially after watching PBS' The Rise of Hitler (part one) last night. Which I highly recommend!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:29 PM

7. Timothy Snyder is the expert, really. Holocaust historian.

Anyone who does not have his book ON TYRANNY should get it now.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:35 PM

10. And "Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin"

An absolute masterpiece (IMO)

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:37 PM

11. We need a plan for fighting this - but it seems it may already be too late.

Last edited Wed Nov 11, 2020, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

If you think his book might help with creating a strategy for stopping this downward slide into dictatorship, I'll order it.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 06:22 PM

13. absolutely

It tells you what to watch for, and how to respond.

And it's only eight bucks.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:29 PM

8. one of the hallmarks of this administration is that they tell us how they will break

the law or established norms and then they do it. Or try to do it.

Yet, somehow we still don't believe they will go that low and then we have to play catch-up rather than proactively stop the theft.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:35 PM

9. More often than not, we would be much closer to reality if we simply ASSUME the

worst from this group of corrupt grifters, rather than give the benefit of the doubt.

Given their record over the last 5 years, we should have learned to just go straight to the most corrupt, dishonest, undemocratic, dangerous interpretation of their behavior rather than the 'reporting' and 'analysis' and discussion that we have mostly seen in the media.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:41 PM

12. Wait till they find out who they are really dealing with?

He clowned his way through all of this.

Middle fingered us with Rush MoF!

Allegedly called veterans that died, suckers and losers?

That id10t?

Doesn't use condoms with a porn star? Optics.... and we shouldn't know that and more....


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