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Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:07 PM

At what point does it become Sedition?

This is the question I've been asking myself for a long time now so figured I'd ask if this thought had been entertained by anyone else. This is a two part question/discussion and I would really like to hear from others their thoughts on this.

Yes, I understand the first amendment. At what point does "free speech" become sedition though?
Sedition: conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

18 U.S. Code  2384.Seditious conspiracy : If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

We as a nation have almost always had certain limits on free speech, no yelling fire in a theater etc. and it can be argued that organizations (fox, oan, newsmax) and people (Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson) are acting in much the same spirit. Not just now but for years. Those examples are iffy constitutionally but the case can be made in my opinion.

Now , part 2 of my thoughts.

How do these militias like the Proud Boys etc. NOT fall under the Seditious Conspiracy statute? They have taken up arms against lawful elected governments. Those "protesters" in Michigan who wanted to kidnap and kill the Governor? How about that Ammon Bundy crap from a few years ago? To ME at least those were textbook examples of seditious conspiracy. Why were they not charged and convicted as such?

Ok... that was my "discussion" part of this post now a thought from me. Hmmmm how to say this? I don't post much so bear with me if I my thoughts are a bit vague. Our bodies kind of have free speech in a form, as it lets in just about anything. But when a cancer or infection starts our white blood cells rush to contain and try to kill the thing that is trying to kill the body. Can we not do the same for the things/acts that are killing our political body? Hate radio is poisoning the minds of countless Americans. Can we do nothing to combat this? Fox pundits and others are attacking the very core of our Republic, are we just supposed to call off our allegorical white blood cells and let the poison/cancer run freely?

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:13 PM

1. To me, it's damn close, and Trump is the Ringmaster keeping it going! n/t

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:15 PM

2. There's no question. It's sedition. It was treason long ago. And the immorality started

when he was campaigning on racism. Not to mention, separating families at the border.

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:19 PM

3. We've been moving step-by-step to the "bad" side......

I'll NEVER understand how the "Bundy Gang" got away without serving time in jail - only to see peaceful protestors tear-gassed in DC so that BunkerBoy could do a disgusting "photo-op" with something he knows nothing about in front of a place he never goes to.

We've dodged a bullet with Biden coming in - but we have SO much work to do, especially when over 70 million people think that that mess should have had a second term!

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Response to MyOwnPeace (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:30 PM

5. "We've dodged a bullet with Biden coming in"... I'm worried we might not be so lucky next time.

I agree with the OP; this is way past sedition, and with trump kissing putin's arse for the past 4 years, giving away state secrets to putin's ambassadors and god knows who else...that's treason.

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Response to MyOwnPeace (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:59 PM

8. Jury Nullification

One Juror lied when they promised to judge the case on its merits and without their personal bias. They refused to convict despite the evidence. This idea is being promoted all across RW America: get on the jury and obstruct.

This is the same reason the Hokoanas walked after shooting Josh Dukes point-blank in the guts on the UW campus in Seattle, 1/20/17.

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:22 PM

4. I think he would need to conspire to use force in the overthrown of the U.S. government

It's not enough to advocate overthrowing the government. He would need to be involved in planning, acquiring or distributing weapons, etc. with the purpose of taking down the government. Otherwise it's protected free speech.

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:44 PM

6. At the point where violence or force is advocated or solicited.

And not before.

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Response to BigOleDummy (Original post)

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:48 PM

7. "Force" is the key word there.

I would think RICO would be a more accurate use of the law.

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