There Is No Need for Trump to Pardon Himself at All.

[MineralMan]

Mike Pence will gladly do that for him. He could resign on January 19, 2021, at which time Mike Pence would become President automatically. Pence could issue a pre-written blanket pardon, a la Nixon's, immediately after being sworn in. Personally, I think Trump will resign earlier than that, but, he could wait until the last day if he chose to do so.

A self-pardon is risky, but there is no need to do that at all. The solution is so simple that even a child could figure it out.

More concerning is how many pardons Trump will issue for people in his Cabinet and other top administration officials. He could pardon the entire lot of his criminal buddies, right up to January 19, protecting them from prosecution in federal cases. Then, at the last minute, he could resign and accept Pence's pardon.

What's in it for Mike Pence? He gets to be the 46th President of the United States, officially, even if for just one day. Really, it doesn't matter when Trump resigns when it comes to that little feather in Pence's hat. It's that trivial, but also that important in a historical sense. Pence would be a "former President" for the rest of his life. Never mind the asterisk.

It's all about imagery.

[underpants]

1. As far as I know it's generally consider that a POTUS can't self pardon

Grants that’s a “norm” (actually I think it’s a DOJ opinion) and Trump steps all over those but I don’t think he can pardon himself.

[MineralMan]

2. I agree, but so many people are posting about him pardoning himself

that I decided to explain why he doesn't have to take that risk. I suspect a self-pardon would be voided, based on "Common Law" by the SCOTUS. A person cannot be the judge in his own case.

But, since there is a very simple way to avoid a self-pardon, he will not pardon himself.

[unblock]

19. Interesting how the entire concept never even came up until donnie

[underpants]

27. I think it came up with Nixon and Clinton nt

[unblock]

29. Could be be I really don't remember any discussion of it

It was always about the new veep pardoning the former president, from what I can recall.

[exboyfil]

3. I agree with the probability of your scenario

My one hope is that he will screw it up. I also think, given the circumstances, there could be some ability to challenge corrupt pardons. At least it will be an opportunity to set case law.

If he wants to make himself viable for 2024, then he shouldn't do these pardons. I don't know if it is a con or if he actually thinks it is viable.

[MineralMan]

6. Trump knows he would not be elected in 2024.

He might set up a campaign organization to create some funds he can launder, but that's it. On January 20, 2021, Donald J. Trump's political career is over. He knows that. Everyone around him knows that.

That's why he's going to pardon everyone in his administration who had done his criminal work for him. I almost guarantee he will be pardoned by President Pence after his resignation. However, I do not know when that resignation will happen. it will happen, though. Of that I'm certain. It's his only real protection from prosecution for federal crimes.

[intrepidity]

4. Frankly, I think "47" suits Biden perfectly, and for that reason alone,

think Trump will deny him it.

[Rorey]

5. Which is why I think leverage needs to be used against Pence

I'd be very surprised to find out that he's squeaky clean. Of course I suppose OrangeLoser would also pardon Pence.

At the end of day, receiving a pardon is an admission of guilt. And he'll still have SDNY to deal with. I think his troubles are just beginning.

[MineralMan]

8. Trump will end up a ruined man.

The rest of his life is going to be unpleasant, I'm quite sure.

[Rorey]

24. I think his entire existence has always been unpleasant

He has never seemed to be a happy person. Never satisfied.

[MineralMan]

9. We have no leverage against Pence, frankly.

Trump will pardon him, too, no doubt. The reality is that it would be very difficult to prosecute Pence, though, successfully.

[Chainfire]

7. Since Trump has never admitted to being wrong about anything

he may let that opportunity pass. The logical thing to do is resign and let Pence do the dirty work; it is a tried and proven method.

In the past, I thought the best thing to do was just to let history judge Trump, but now, with him putting the nation in danger by not allowing a transition to take place, I say lets throw the book at him as a lesson to future losers.

[tritsofme]

10. One possibility I've seen floated is a temporary transfer of power under the 25th Amendment

Like when Bush went in for a colonoscopy. And during that time when Pence is acting president, he could issue the pardon and Trump could resume power within an hour or less.

[MineralMan]

11. There would be no point to that, really.

The last days of the Trump administration are nothing more than a formality, really. Use Occam's razor to find the simplest possible solution.

[tritsofme]

13. The simplest possible solution is a self pardon.

I just don’t see Trump giving up power any sooner than he has to.

[MineralMan]

18. Not really. It is unclear whether a self-pardon will stand.

Personally, I believe it would not.

[tritsofme]

22. Given the current state of the Supreme Court, I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't stand

The plain text makes clear that the only exception to the pardon power is impeachment, and I foresee the GOP justices zeroing in on this.

[bluestarone]

12. While i agree fully, I'm thinking RUMP will want to do it HIS WAY! (that's who he is)

If someone doesn't tell him this he won't think of it himself. I assumed Pence could pardon RUMP,( before i had my thread) BUT since when does Rump listen to how things SHOULD work? Also i'm thinking maybe Pence himself will need pardoning on some things? (not sure here) Just interesting to see IF HE would even try to self pardon was the reason for my thread. Could cause quite a stir if he did.

[MineralMan]

15. Trump will do whatever offers him the most protection against prosecution.

I have no doubt whatsoever that what I have suggested has been discussed already in the White House. Just a day or two ago, Trump and Pence had a private lunch meeting, followed by a meeting between Trump, the Secretary of State and the Treasury Secretary. When I saw that on Trump's calendar, I immediately thought that resignations and pardons were on the table.

If you remember, Nixon sent his resignation to his Secretary of State. That's how it is done. I suspect the whole thing is already planned out in detail, except for the date, perhaps.

Trump is not quite as stupid as many people think. When it comes to his own liabilities, he's far from stupid. This whole pardoning and resignation thing has been thoroughly discussed in private with the principals.

[bluestarone]

20. I will NOT disagree here BUT

RUMP is truly a different breed of cat! Interesting times ahead that's for sure!! Like i stated before i really believe RUMP WOULD do it his way, IF not talked out of it.

[42bambi]

16. Yep. He's the star of his farce of a show. The Trump season is almost over.

[Pantagruel]

14. "political career is over."

We may think so but Trump's ego may blind him to that "reality".
He thinks he owns 71 million votes and they will wait for him.

[MineralMan]

17. I doubt it. Trump is thinking about how he can

get out of his financial dilemma. That's what matters to him as a man in his 70s.

The only person who is important to Donald J. Trump is Donald J. Trump. Nothing else matters.

[Pantagruel]

23. I agree, only Trump is important to Trump

but he's been indoctrinated his entire life that he's above the law, his lawyers are always better, the system can always be beaten and now he "owns" a large number of high ranking judges. And money can always be had, especially if you can trade political power and favors for it. His currency is 71 million votes.
I actually think his dominant fear is becoming irrelevant, not jail or poverty.
He wakes every morning to a media hanging on his every pronouncement. Massive egos like his can't shut it off easily.

[Disaffected]

21. All that is quite possible if not probable.

It also serves to starkly demonstrate why the presidential pardon system is farcical as it stands (and questionable otherwise).

I see a need for it in principle but it is far to easy to abuse (as Trump has already demonstrated).

[beastie boy]

25. I would actually like Trump to get a pardon, whether from himself or from Pence, or from Biden.

By accepting a pardon, he, with his own hand, brands himself an admitted felon, for all eternity. The act of knowingly humiliating himself would be a devastating blow to a pathological narcissist. As far as getting convicted and serving time, we can always count on Cyrus Vance and Letitia James. Ain't nothing Pence can do about that!

[wishstar]

26. I think Pence would get a cushy full pension and all the perks of an ex-Pres too

even if serving just briefly

[AleksS]

28. Waiting to the last minute would be the sort

of petulant thing trump would do too, if only just to make all of Biden's "46" gear inaccurate and require a re-print.

Wait--would that make Biden + 46 stuff collectible?

Time to buy it up!!

[revmclaren]

30. I wonder if Pence has presidential aspirations that

would be at risk if trump resigned. If I understand right, if Pence becomes president by the act of tRump leaving office before January 21, wouldn't it be counted as a presidential term and thus limiting any future presidency to just one more term?



The Repugs would see this as a huge negative when trying to rebuild the evil empire thus shutting Pence out of any contention.

And what bragging rights would Pence and mother have by being a first family by forfeit?

[lettucebe]

31. Something tells me he'd rather deny Pence that title

[Gothmog]

32. I have been predicting that Pence will be the one to pardon trump

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