I have to say this.

[sheshe2]

We are one huge diverse party.

We are white, black, brown and olive. We are straight, gay, christian, atheist, men, women from every walks of life. We are rich and we are middle class and we are poor.

WE are all Democrats.

So many labels out there to define oneself. Liberal. Moderate. Democratic Socialist and Progressive. Not one label trumps another. We are not the enemy no matter what we call ourselves. What we are is the Democratic party and it is time the labels cease to divide us. We are one party.

It is not my way or the highway. The divisiveness must stop. That is Don's way, not ours.

[melman]

1. Who is being divisive?

Name names.

[sheshe2]

4. ...

You read DU.

[Cha]

12. lol.. omg.

[sheshe2]

14. Ta Da!

[brush]

24. We need to dump the democratic socialist label though.

That's nothing but a vote loser that costs us wins in districts hundreds of miles away from New York and Vermont.

See Florida.

[sheshe2]

26. +1000.

I agree.

[questionseverything]

67. So big tent accept for democratic socialist ideas?

[DeeNice]

72. no one said reject the ideas.

But the label is tainted. We need to do better branding and the bar is not that high. All the other side needs to do is wave the flag, hold up a bible and call the other side commies, baby killers etc.

The least we could do is not just hand them another epithet to throw around.

[PatSeg]

90. Yeah, labels do matter

Some voters tend to think in short sound bites and react to labels rather than the substance behind them. Its unfortunate, but it is the way politics work for many people. Not everyone is a well-read political junkie. Republicans know this and use labels and snappy slogans to win over voters, who do not have the time or inclination to dig deeper.

We didn't make words like "socialism" negative, but republicans did, just like they tried to make "liberal" synonymous with "evil". They are good at deceptive word-smithing and political spin, while we are often playing catchup. We have to quit letting THEM control the narrative.

Meanwhile, politicians need to avoid the word socialism. Its really not playing well with a large percentage of voters.

[quakerboy]

106. If the official label mattered

Then the fact that the democratic socialist was soundly defeated in the primary would have freed us from it.

Biden could denounce bernie, aoc and all other elected officials as disloyal communists, have them all deported to china and stripped of us citizenship, and in 4 and 8 years, the Right would still persuade half of Florida and a lot of others that Biden and Harris are dirty socialists. These are the same people who have convinced a lot of millions of people that trump is maybe still winning the election, and that democrats are running a pedophile ring under a pizza shop.

It has nothing to do with any official labels we use. It has nothing to do with any ideas or policy preferences. It has to do with the preponderance of propaganda.

[Celerity]

79. They are not socialist ideas, calling them such is false labelling, even by the very politicians who

falsely call themselves democratic socialists. Under no widely accepted definition are they socialists, but they have too much hubris and think they can redefine things. They cannot. It is a giant waste of time and it does tremendous damage to our Party.

They love to point to us here in the Nordics (I am half Swedish and live in Stockholm) as their model. We are a great model, BUT we are NOT socialists. We have social democracies, which is what Bernie and the small handful of elected Dems who incorrectly self-label as dem socs actually advocate for, ergo they are social democrats.

Anyone from the US coming over here and walking up to 1000 adult Swedes (and make the 1000 a broad cross-section of the nation, racially, geographically, ethnically, socio-economically, as we are very diverse, unlike this long gone myth that we are a homogenous nation of blue eyed blondes) and telling them they live in a socialist nation would be laughed at by at least 950 of the 1000. We have very vibrant (more vibrant than the US on a multiplicity of levels), yet highly regulated capitalist sectors which synergistically work with expansive social safety nets and welfare states.

[questionseverything]

81. You don't get to be the label police

[Celerity]

93. I do not have to be the police, I am using basic widely accepted (academically and in everyday

parlance) definitions. What Bernie and the handful of other claim is false, both in their self-labelling, their examples of other nations, and their programmes themselves are NOT socialist. It is not label policing, it is simply pointing out facts.

It is shooting yourself in the foot for no good reason and it is hurting the party as a whole by giving the RW fake ammo (that fake as it may be, still works on upon tens upon tens of millions of voters, especially the low info ones.)

Another fact, if they think they can get enough Democrats elected to actually do things via opening running as socialists, they are utterly delusional. It is never going to happen in ultra-reactionary America. Plus they will continue to do tremendous damage to the vast majority of the party. Keep on pushing the socialist label and watch 2022 turn into an echo of 2010. In 2010 we lost a net 63 seats in the House and a net 7 Senate seats. I am a huge AOC fan but she truly needs to ditch the socialist label and especially push away the DSA on a permanent basis.

The DSA has actual real socialist elements, and also truly radical communist (mostly Trotskyites, but even some revanchist Stalinists). They look at Bernie, AOC, etc as mere stepping stones to full blown socialism, ie the destruction of capitalism and the expropriation of the means of production. They only back them to get a toehold into the system. They are a true threat.

Doubt me?


A Dialogue: Should DSA Endorse Bernie Sanders Before the Convention?

https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/a-dialogue-should-dsa-endorse-bernie-sanders-before-the-convention/

Socialism means the democratic socialization of the banks and corporations, of industry and agriculture, of the media and culture. Historically this idea has presumed the creation of a working class party, the destruction of the capitalist state, and the creation of a new more democratic government, the nationalization, municipalization, or the cooperativization of the economy, the democratic elaboration of a national economic plan, and within that plan widespread community control and workers’ power in the workplace. This is not Bernie.

Bernie has often said that he looks back to Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s “New Deal” for his political model. In fact, FDR’s New Deal of the 1930s–and more important the economic expansion of World War II—established the social compact that saved capitalism. Then, updated in the 1960s by Lyndon B. Johnson’s “Great Society,” it stabilized an increasingly crisis-ridden capitalism for another couple of decades until the Great Recession of 2008. The New Deal and Great Society, of course, were made possible by America’s global economic, political, and military dominance and hegemony by imperialism. The New Deal’s social Keynesianism morphed into military Keynesianism, which underlay much of American prosperity. That is the essential fact of the original New Deal.

There was also the all-important New Deal Coalition that saved the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party’s role in American society—as the lesser of two evils—is to periodically reform the political and economic system just enough so that it can incorporate and absorb those who begin to turn away from capitalism. When the Great Depression led to the left-led working class upheaval of the 1930s, FRD’s New Deal Coalition made concessions to labor that brought the new industrial unions, as well s the old craft unions, into the Democratic Party. And those movements died there.

snip


We need to stop these foolish dalliances and false, destructive self-labelling NOW. It will end up tossing absolute systemic control to the fascist Republican party on a permanent, or near permanent basis.

I am not the police, I am a simple truth bearer.

[LanternWaste]

95. Your patience in the face of absurd accusations is beyond my ken.

Label Police is new one... I may try that costume for Halloween next year.

[brush]

87. Thank you for this, Celerity. Everyone should read this.

[Celerity]

94. yw, I have been battling this since I joined the board, so pardon me if it seems like I am a broken

record.

[brush]

96. Please keep it up. It needs to be heard.

[brush]

97. Are you a democratic socialist? Most on this board are Democrats.

Last edited Tue Nov 17, 2020, 05:15 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernis Sanders made a huge mistake calling himself a democratic socialist instead of a social democrat of the nordic model, as the word socialism has been toxic to millions of voters for many decades in this country. As for AOC, I think she was somewhat naive in following Sanders in declaring herself a democratic socialist. I hope she distances herself from that as she has tremendous potential, especially now after seeing how the repugs nailed that label to Dem candidates by messaging their alignment with the AOC/Sanders/radical socialists, whether it was true of not.

Sanders is a lost cause. He is who he is. As I said AOC will mature and understand that's a loser as three generations of voters, the greatest generation, Boomers and GenXers were schooled in their formative years that socialism, failed communist collectives, Stalin, Kruschev, Brezhnev, the iron curtain, the Cuban missile crisis, fall out shelters...all toxic and to be shunned.

Many voters learned nuance with critical thinking and matured out of that knee-jerk, negative reaction to socialism as there are aspects of it in our system (mostly us Dems) but millions haven't and never will and will vote against anything associated with socialism, democratic socialism, communism, whatever.

Anybody who doesn't get that has a depth of knowledge of their own country as that of a sidewalk puddle. I keep posting this but sometimes feel I'm braying into the wind as many don't seem to get it. We'll keep losing elections we don't have to until we figure out how to distance ourselves from that label. Maybe combat it by labeling repugs fascist, as they are, but the deplorables don't know the difference.

[KPN]

36. I really appreciate the tone and apparent intent of this OP.

So a question for you Brush, how do we do that? With a wink and a nod? How do we maintain our big tent? We all own it, not any single person, group or perspective. Does wink and a nod work for you?

[brush]

45. I don't know what you mean by a wink and a nod as we should be dead...

serious about it. Sanders made a huge mistake calling himself a democratic socialist instead of a social democrat of the nordic model, as the word socialism has been toxic to millions of voters for many decades in this country. As for AOC, I think she was somewhat naive in following Sanders in declaring herself a democratic socialist. I hope she distances herself from that as she has tremendous potential, especially now after seeing how the repugs nailed that label to Dem candidates by messaging their alignment with the squad whether it was true of not.

Sanders is a lost cause. He is who he is. As I said AOC will mature and understand that's a loser as three generations of voters, the greatest generation, Boomers and GenXers were schooled in their formative years that socialism, failed communist collectives, Stalin, Kruschev, Brezhnev, the iron curtain, the Cuban missile crisis, fall out shelters...all toxic and to be shunned.

Many voters learned nuance with critical thinking and matured out of that knee-jerk, negative reaction to socialism as there are aspects of it in our system (mostly us Dems) but millions haven't and never will and will vote against anything associated with socialism, democratic socialism, communism, whatever.

Anybody who doesn't get that has a depth of knowledge of their own country as that of a sidewalk puzzled. I keep posting this but sometimes feel I'm braying into the wind as many don't seem to get it. We'll keep losing elections we don't have to until we figure out how to distance ourselves from that label. Maybe combat it by labeling repugs fascist, as they are, but the deplorables don't know the difference.

[questionseverything]

80. The tone and intent of the op seems to be to drive out those of us who identify as democratic

Socialist


The conservative Democrats can’t win with out us

[Celerity]

101. do you believe in the destruction of the capitalist system and the expropriation of the means of

production?

If not, you are not a socialist under the vast majority of all globally accepted (some for closing in on 200 years) definitions, and most certainly definitions that are held by the VAST majority of all Americans, regardless of party.

If you are not a socialist, then why do you insist on clinging to a false label, and a label that will help destroy our Democratic Party at electoral level?

If you do believe in the destruction of the capitalist system and the expropriation of the means of production, then you are never going to get what you wish from our Party, nor any other party in the USA, at least not for many decades and only then following a systemic collapse that will cause the deaths of tens of millions.

The Socialists (Vänsterpartiet, ie The Left) poll around 5 to 8 percent IN SWEDEN for over 100 years. TWICE they have gotten over 10%, (1944, barely at 10.3, and in 1998 (12.0% and then dropped off dramatically afterward). How do you think you can get to 50% in hyper reactionary America???

[qdouble]

68. I disagree.

The smear machine never stops. Lies are always more flexible than truth. Democrats need to focus on accomplishing stuff and then people wouldn't be less worried about whatever new label Republicans want to demonize.

[brush]

69. Everybody has an opinion but we see over and over again that...

that socialism label loses us elections, even in our own party. Sanders has been rejected twice for our own nomination.

[qdouble]

73. Republicans are going to call democrats socialists.

Boiling down losses to one word seems to just be the moderates lashing out at the progressives...even though there is little evidence of the moderates energizing voters.

Running hard to center is what depresses turnout when the Republican candidate isn’t unlikeable because people who want change stay home. A lot of the losses people cried about were from the moderates not the progressives.

[brush]

74. Why give them such slam dunk messaging weapons like...

"I'm a democratic socialist", or defund the police?

We have to be smarter than that or we're going to lose even more House seats in 2022, maybe even the majority altogether.

[questionseverything]

83. Defund the police is not a democratic socialist idea

Why pretend they are interchangeable?

[brush]

85. Please! No one said that. They are too separate but very damaging...

attack ad messages we've gifted to the repugs for their attack ads. Again, no one said the interchangeable as they are clearly not.

[GoneOffShore]

77. 'A lie goes around the world ten times while truth is still putting its boots on'.

Churchill, Pratchett, Mark Twain - choose your guy.

[Progressive dog]

75. Yes we do.

The label of socialist is toxic to many of our fellow Americans including many in parts of NYS.

[George II]

37. um.......

[sheshe2]

38. You funny.

[George II]

102. I try. And another "dump and run"!

[LanternWaste]

78. Damn! That was delicious!

[Hekate]

13. ....

[sheshe2]

28. ;)

[cwydro]

82. Lol.

Come on, man.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

98. Them. Those other bums. They're stirring shit.

Not me, I'm in the best part of the tent.

[SheltieLover]

2. Well said, She!

Love your sign!

[sheshe2]

5. Thank you, Sheltie.

The sign says it all. We are a coat of many colors.

[SheltieLover]

20. Yw, She!

Room for everyone in the big tent!

[OAITW r.2.0]

3. Old white guy that likes associating with the Democratic Party. nt

[KY_EnviroGuy]

6. We are Americans and Democrats represent the very best people of our nation.

Republicans want to divide us so they can control us. It's just that simple and driven by plutocrats and fascists.

Thanks for posting and that's a lovely graphic....so true.... .......

[sheshe2]

15. Thank you KY.

Enough with the divisiveness. It is time to be one party and not one with supporting rolls vying for the lead role.

We are one.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

104. YW, She. I worry often about....

not just the divisions in our society but also the radical changes made to our government each time the executive changes hands. So many of our government departments and bureaus will be going through shock changes each time and Republicans inflict maximum damage each cycle. They plan it that way to reduce the public's confidence in government, thereby making it easier for them to destroy pieces of it.

I feel it may be time for Congress to build fences around the executive to avoid the deep effects of another Trump. I'm not wise enough on government structures to make that call but I firmly believe Joe and Kamala are.


KY........ ...... ......

[sheshe2]

105. Thanks.

I agree with you about Joe and Kamala. They also have the best of the best on their team and they are not afraid or to proud to listen to the advice of others.

[FM123]

7. Yes. We are ONE.

&ab_channel=ReggaeMan

[sheshe2]

33. This.

[Caliman73]

8. I agree sheshe2. So, what can we do individually to bring that about?

I see people highlighting the differences and disagreements between Democratic Party members who want a more aggressive and progressive approach and those who favor a slower incremental approach.

I see people criticizing moderate AND progressive congress people regularly.

I myself have participated in threads today where particular slogans are said to have cost us elections, where no empirical evidence has been offered but we should accept it because certain people in government, and celebrities have said it.

I will admit freely that I argue and squabble with people. I do not particularly think that it is that damaging, 1. because I will vote for the Democrat against any Republican and 2. because my views can be changed with empirical evidence.

I am open to new ideas and adapt my thinking around what is evidence based.

Sometimes the people I encounter, are not so inclined.

So again, what can we do to create this unity that you rightly advocate?

[sheshe2]

34. Well.

Start by reading the Democratic Party Platform.



PARTY PLATFORM
THE 2020 DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM
Every four years, Democrats from across the country join together to craft our party’s platform.
The platform is created to uplift working people and write out the values that will guide our party for years to come.

PREAMBLE
PROTECTING AMERICANS AND RECOVERING FROM THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC

BUILDING A STRONGER, FAIRER ECONOMY

ACHIEVING UNIVERSAL, AFFORDABLE, QUALITY HEALTH CARE

PROTECTING COMMUNITIES AND BUILDING TRUST BY

REFORMING OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM

HEALING THE SOUL OF AMERICA

COMBATING THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND PURSUING ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE

RESTORING AND STRENGTHENING OUR DEMOCRACY
CREATING A 21ST CENTURY IMMIGRATION SYSTEM

PROVIDING A WORLD-CLASS EDUCATION IN EVERY ZIP CODE

RENEWING AMERICAN LEADERSHIP

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

[niyad]

9. Thank you, she.

[sheshe2]

35. ...

[Hekate]

10. Many thanks, She. Call me an old white lady if you must, but know I've paid my dues....

...as a lifelong Democrat.

The divisiveness here is breaking my heart. Trump is still squatting in the White House, with all that implies, and some cannot wait even a moment to start up all the old infighting.

You, otoh, are a peacemaker.

[sheshe2]

30. Hey my friend.

We have Georgia coming on up. We don't need whining or divisive rhetoric when OUR MAJORITY IS TWO VOTES AWAY!

They win, we all win. Not sure why some just don't get that and focus on THIS!

Georgia, sweet Georgia.

This will be for John and Stacey.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. True, but easier said than done. . . . nt

[sheshe2]

54. It is always easier said than done.

Time to work harder to get it done. Let us start with Georgia's runoff.

WIN IT AND CARRY ON FROM THERE.

[tiredtoo]

16. OK we are what you say we are but

We are also in trouble unless we change something. We gained back the Whitehouse but lost everywhere else.
In my county in Michigan I found the minority areas (blue) voted at a 49 percent turnout rate. The outlying (red) areas voted at 60 to 80 percent turnout.
We still are not sending the correct message to many voters or perhaps we don't have the correct message.

[Cha]

18. Cook Political Map shows a nearly universal swing to Dems in 2020

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14558810

No We did NOT "Lose everywhere else"!

That's just some meme that some like to push.

[sheshe2]

42. Thanks Cha.

We DID NOT LOSE everyplace else. We are also inches away from the Senate. It is tiring when people only see a HUGE WIN as a great loss.

I will hold the rest of my comments on that note.

[Cha]

61. Ikr.. what a thing to say.. talk

about going overboard.

Yes it's like an Orwellian Twilight Zone sometimes.. Instead of celebrating our Wins.. it's and.. we lost everywhere else!

What a message going Forward To Georgia When We Absolutely Need to Win two Democratic Seats so we Can have a Tie in the Senate!

Hello! Please!!

[sheshe2]

65. And our Democratic VP...

Kamala Harris is our tie breaker. For the win!

[Cha]

66. Oh Yeah!

[Wednesdays]

71. I just wonder if the Repugs are having the same conversation, in reverse

"We lost a senate seat! We didn't pick up but a handful of House seats! Not to mention the presidency!"

(Is there an emoticon for "hand wringing?" )

[former9thward]

56. That map is just presidential.

We did lose most everyplace else. Pelosi said we would pick up 20 seats in the House. We lost a dozen. People were predicting a pick up of up to 60 seats in the Senate. The most we can get is 50 if we are lucky. We wanted to flip state legislatures because of census re-apportionment. We lost 100 state legislature seats and the Republicans picked up at least two states. The Republicans picked up a governor. If you think that facts are just a "meme" then provide your own.

[tiredtoo]

60. Good to see

Someone else sees the big picture here, thanks.

[sheshe2]

25. Okay.

We still are not sending the correct message to many voters or perhaps we don't have the correct message.

Maybe people are just not listening. If 245K dead due to a pResident that just golfs as they fall, our hospitals overwhelmed and close to collapse is not enough for them, our healthcare workers beyond exhausted, unprotected and many dying is not enough for them to vote then, yes we are lost.

[George II]

48. "We lost everywhere else"??? We won more than 220 seats in the House, gained at least....

....one Senate seat, probably two and maybe even three.

Where else is "everywhere"?

[Upthevibe]

64. tiredtoo....I certainly understand your

sentiment. Having said that, we didn't lose everywhere else (even though on a cellular level it kind of feels that way to me too).

The facts are we kept the House (even though we lost a lot of seats and we really need to evaluate exactly what happened - but we still kept control). We had a net gain of one seat in the Senate which was terribly disappointing for many of us. I'd actually been keeping a running total almost everyday tracking what the numbers were and which seats I really thought we'd win based on polling (which was horrible flawed and we need to do something about that moving forward).

Some of the feedback I received here on DU was that some of the senate candidates in the general election weren't as strong as who they beat in the primaries.

Having said all of this, we must somehow stick together even though we are all so different. If Biden hadn't have won, I feel it could have been the end of our democracy. We can NEVER forget the horrors we have endured during the dt administration and what these past four years have felt like.

As several other posters have stated, we need to put as much energy and focus as we possibly can in the upcoming Georgia races. If we can take back the Senate, I feel we can truly move in a direction that could greatly benefit the majority of our citizens.

[tiredtoo]

70. And i agree with your post here

I also agree with the OP, we are a diverse group. My only reason for my original reply on this thread was to open up debate/discussion on what we can/should do moving forward. How do we win back the "reagan democrats"? The blue collar folks who voted for trump?

[MustLoveBeagles]

17. To quote malaise

Get thee to the greatest page.

Thank you for posting this thread. It's sorely needed today.

[sheshe2]

19. Thanks, hon.

Yes it needed to be said.

I am tired of the divisiveness.

[Old Terp]

21. Agreed.

Haven't seen friends in ages. Any fighting upsets me. How is your cilantro doing? Mine is coming up and with a mild winter, there will be a Cilantro Fest in the Spring. Peace to all.

[sheshe2]

32. I have a confession to make.

I am so sorry...I hate Cilantro.

However I wish you luck in your fest!

[Old Terp]

39. Usually, my only fest is a figfest in August

I can't wait till then. I'm into herbs and give out rosemary bouquets and lavender sachets as "delightful parting gifts" at gatherings.

[sheshe2]

40. I will stop by for the rosemary and lavender.

[cwydro]

84. I'm a cilantro hater too.

Apparently it’s one of those “taster” things.

Does it taste like dish liquid to you? It does to me.

[sheshe2]

88. Not sure what it tastes like...

Though it stinks! One time I was in a rush at the market and grabbed cilantro instead of flat leaf parsley. I was driving home and wondered what the awful smell was in my car. I tossed it in the trash when I got home.

[cwydro]

100. Horrid!

[Ohio Joe]

22. K&R -nt

[Politicub]

23. Yes! We are the inclusive party!

[MLAA]

27. What sheshe2 said 💕

[Joinfortmill]

29. Love this

[rictofen]

31. Sounds great

[NoRoadUntravelled]

41. Thanks for this post.

It's a good reminder of who we really are and what we care about. If we can't treat each other with some compassion and empathy today, what qualifies us to say we're the party that can bring in a better future for anyone?

[sheshe2]

44. +1000

It's a good reminder of who we really are and what we care about. If we can't treat each other with some compassion and empathy today, what qualifies us to say we're the party that can bring in a better future for anyone?

This should be an OP.

Well said.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

49. TY

[MustLoveBeagles]

50. Very well said

[gademocrat7]

43. Amen, She!

[Marcuse]

46. E Pluribus Unum

[sheshe2]

47. I LOVE THIS!

[highplainsdem]

51. Thanks, sheshe! K&R! And +1,000,000

[William769]

52. Thats the beat of my drum.

[sheshe2]

57. Good to see you, Bill.

I worry.

[William769]

58. You too sheshe.

Was unavoidable. I am sorry.

[sheshe2]

59. Alright then.

You are alright. I missed you.

[Cha]

62. Aloha, William!

[William769]

76. Aloha Cha!

[mcar]

53. The divisiveness must stop

We know who the enemy is.

[spanone]

55. ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️K&R ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️

[Aristus]

86. Amen...

[sheshe2]

89. ...

[Aristus]

91. Good to see you!

Our first post-Biden-win greeting!

Such a relief that it's almost over...

[sheshe2]

92. Yep.

It feels good.

Now let's move that sucker out of The Peoples House!

[station agent]

99. A parliamentary system would allow

...all these people with these different points of view to compete and collaborate without risking everything every 4 years, and then be left fighting austerity, racism, the corporate media and sadly fellow democrats for something every other country has like single payer health care among other things. But yeah, it's real nice and flowery to have a big tent that never gets the job done.

[H2O Man]

103. Recommended.

Way recommended, for sure. This is the most important concept for us to keep in mind at this time.