General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow do you even begin with 70 million (or more) deniers, rascists and haters? Suggestions welcomed.
This ain't just reaching across the aisle or healing (although I like that concept). They are rabid and do not want to play. At all. No commonality that I can see.
lapfog_1
(29,166 posts)we need our own Siberian re-education camps
( yes - I'm kidding )
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)Turbineguy
(37,212 posts)"For over 30 years you've been lied to by right-wing-hate-radio and Fox News. No wonder you feel the way you do. But you can set yourself free...."
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)You shall know the truth and it shall set you free. The cockroaches always scatter when you turn on the lights.
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)In his podcast Making Sense, Sam Harris recently shared his view on The Key to Trumps Appeal. He makes a case that Trumps wild and unapologetic flaws make his base feel better (versus the Democrats pushing us to reckon with harsh realities like racism, science and math). Harris describes Trump as a Punch you in the face, Grab you in the Pussy, Eat as many cheeseburgers as I want Jesus. As if he is a savior absolving you of your sins by being so ridiculously terrible.
The thing is, we only need an absurd villain and his cheeseburgers to make us feel better about our own flaws when we are terrified to look at them ourselves.
I come from a culture laden with alcohol addiction. In a rare moment of clarity, a member of my family once said I dont like it when anyone else stops drinking, because then I feel like I have a problem.
That person also happened to vote for Trump.
https://medium.com/an-injustice/seriously-how-did-he-get-so-many-votes-d5ab7f6be36c
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)it was so depressing I discarded it. I've already known that our side starts two steps back because we emphasize responsibilities while theirs preaches rights.
This is directly related to the Christian viewpoint that Christ has absorbed our sins, but altered to where we can keep sinning and Christ will continue to be a picture of Dorian Gray, absorbing our corruption.
We admire Lincoln, Obama, and others who were, in a word, better than us. But we know we cannot reach their heights, so we revel in our depths-- a place we can easily find. Trump's depths, then make us look good by comparison.
I would hope psychologists and philosophers flesh this out some more.
OAITW r.2.0
(23,862 posts)They are the sheep our folks warned us about.
SomedayKindaLove
(524 posts)Then they each get 70 people added to their work load
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)My Pet Orangutan
(9,101 posts)who 'strongly approve' of Donald Trump. That's around 46 million Americans.
The remainder 17% (26 million) 'somewhat approve'. This group has varied reasons - big money, tribalism, fossil fuels, earmarks, guns etc. They are prepared to overlook Trump's 'shortcomings' and vote straight ticket GOP, just like they always have.
Voters are tribal. 40% voted Hoover in 1932.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)My Pet Orangutan
(9,101 posts)Of the 47% who voted for Trump. around 30% 'strongly approve' of his presidency.
This is a better measure: 46% v 30%.
The 'somewhat approve' of Trump is a mixed bag, but above all, American voters are tribal. 40% voted Hoover in 1932.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)oasis
(49,152 posts)very unpredictable. Many a Deplorable will carry a perpetual chip on their shoulder.
My Pet Orangutan
(9,101 posts)Trumpers prove it every day.
oasis
(49,152 posts)My Pet Orangutan
(9,101 posts)ansible
(1,718 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,011 posts)STAY UNIFIED and show up for EVERY election.
The deplorables are the ones who need to change, not us.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)fierywoman
(7,641 posts)they don't have an amendment guaranteeing free speech, but when the free speech destroys the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness NOT ONLY of those who don't agree with the speech but of those supposedly following that kind of free speech ... there must be some way to find a balance.
nuxvomica
(12,365 posts)The followers of Kaiser Wilhelm, who fled to exile in Holland, was supported by a large nationalist base including, of course, evangelicals. The misery imposed by the Treaty of Versailles ruined Germany and led to the rise of Nazism, an ideology of resentment over economic conditions that engaged in fantasies of world domination. What turned Germany after WWII was the rebuilding and heavy investment by the Allies, especially the US, with the controversial, at the time, Marshall Plan. That's how it's down. Give people real hope for their future and they will abandon their fascist fairy tales.
fierywoman
(7,641 posts)we could do a sort of Marshall plan in the US, they thought a lot of the hatred would go away because, as you said, if they had real hope for their future ... (I like this idea...)
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)fierywoman
(7,641 posts)licenses for radio and television that had to comply to certain standards? (When did that end? I was out of the US between 1978-1991.)
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)fierywoman
(7,641 posts)lettucebe
(2,336 posts)They are brainwashed and there is no coming back for the majority. Winning the popular vote and winning electoral college and they still claim it's rigged? You can't combat that sort of ignorance.
Someone said, not sure who, that's it's easier to get someone to change their religion than their beliefs (probably was worded better since to belong to a religion involves beliefs, but I digress).
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Cicada
(4,533 posts)I bet pork rind production is concentrated so a small number of late night commando raids could do the job. Plan B? Beef jerky.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)Im seriously tired of that not being rubbed in Trumpers faces.
I know that doesnt help much in particularly red areas of the country, but it is truth.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Racism is the biggest reason why I will never vote for the Republican party but they aren't interested in that point of view.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)ansible
(1,718 posts)We already reached the point of no return last May.
nuxvomica
(12,365 posts)Biden's "Build Back Better" must restore confidence in the government and create a climate of hope among those who think they are economically threatened. But at the same time there must be a reckoning. Trump shouldn't be allowed to foment trouble from exile. He and his enablers need to be exposed for the criminals they are. Biden will have to do both to staunch this wound in the American psyche.
on edit:
The WWII parallel was the Marshall Plan and the Nuremberg Trials.
Amishman
(5,541 posts)There is very little common ground.
Zero on social issues.
A few things on economic issues.
This is a cultural divide, primarily on urban / rural lines.
The only real long term solution I see is to grant greater autonomy to state and local government, and limit the federal government's ability to overrule on certain issues. This lets blue areas protect access to abortion and truly protect rights based on race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual identity. It lets red areas keep their guns and God. One of the areas where the federal government will keep total power is ensuring people can move between areas, let them watch their best and brightest young people leave and never come back.
bif
(22,560 posts)NameAlreadyTaken
(959 posts)bdamomma
(63,658 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2020, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)
we could build a wall around them.......it's a cult they hang on his every word. Rather sad, not having a mind huh?
Quotes On denial
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed".
......Nietzsche
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Meanwhile, they'll prepare for another civil war. This isn't hyperbole. Frankly, the confederacy never died. The same cast of characters is back on the scene, with new friends and allies they've gathered along the way. They don't want to abide by our Constitution. They want one of their own.
Unlike everyone else on this board, I know the answer to your question, and the answer is war. And we won't be the ones declaring it.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)dustyscamp
(2,221 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts).... bullies who just love Trump's thumbing his nose at norms and have no other policy reason for supporting him. (I think we have to let those go.) There are the single issue voters who hold their noses... abortion, immigration (both racist based and not), the economy (never mind that this is misunderstood). There are the lifelong Republicans who just don't pay much attention to politics. I wish I could recover a great article about how FEW those of us are, on both sides, who actually read newspapers or watch cable news... or even regular network news or pay attention to social media. Then, of course, there are the racists, misogynists, etc.
What we can't do is ignore the issue. We can't put our heads in the sand and lump them all together.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)bdamomma
(63,658 posts)Propaganda.
See article below:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/creating-in-flow/201105/5-ways-change-someones-mind