Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Evolve Dammit

(16,632 posts)
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:46 PM Nov 2020

How do you even begin with 70 million (or more) deniers, rascists and haters? Suggestions welcomed.

This ain't just reaching across the aisle or healing (although I like that concept). They are rabid and do not want to play. At all. No commonality that I can see.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How do you even begin with 70 million (or more) deniers, rascists and haters? Suggestions welcomed. (Original Post) Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 OP
too bad we can't annex Canada lapfog_1 Nov 2020 #1
Don't drag decent people into this. Xipe Totec Nov 2020 #5
Joe Biden should give them the speech. Turbineguy Nov 2020 #2
And the truth would be spoken, and most of the world would understand. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #38
Reminds me of a passage in the bible IsItJustMe Nov 2020 #50
Seriously, How Did He Get So Many Votes? Xipe Totec Nov 2020 #3
Thanks for the link. I hear you. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #6
YES! That is the explanation I've been looking for-- I thought about it for a moment, but... TreasonousBastard Nov 2020 #17
Where 1 goes, the rest follows. OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2020 #4
First we need about a million cult deprogrammers SomedayKindaLove Nov 2020 #7
Seriously, do people do that as a living? A team of exorcists? Play Mr. Rogers 24/7 for a few mos? Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #39
There are about 30% hardcore Trumpers My Pet Orangutan Nov 2020 #8
duly noted. Thanks. 72 million. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #10
You begin with 80 million non-racist, non-fascist, compassionate problem-solvers. nt coti Nov 2020 #9
Of the 51% that voted Biden, 46% strongly dissapprove of Trump. My Pet Orangutan Nov 2020 #12
Great start and thought but doesn't negate equal numbers diametrically opposed. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #22
good point Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #40
Carry pepper spray on your key chain through 2021. These a-holes are oasis Nov 2020 #11
Hillary was SO right about the deplorables. My Pet Orangutan Nov 2020 #14
HRC underestimated their numbers. Bigtime. oasis Nov 2020 #15
We all did. My Pet Orangutan Nov 2020 #16
Pepper spray is worthless against guns ansible Nov 2020 #29
You make sure the voters who are none of those things ThoughtCriminal Nov 2020 #13
abolutely. Now to expand on that. Somehow. Given the denial of deplorables. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #23
I got nothing. nt Nay Nov 2020 #18
Talk to the Germans about how they eliminated Nazi-ism after WWI. Yes, I KNOW fierywoman Nov 2020 #19
After WWI, it was the nationalists that continued to ferment nuxvomica Nov 2020 #32
Someone elsewhere was saying that to eliminate the hatred of these groups, if fierywoman Nov 2020 #36
An excellent societal choice, and easily transferrable (or at least it should be). Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #41
And in the olden days, light years ago, when most of us here were young, weren't there Federal fierywoman Nov 2020 #20
"Fairness Doctrine" did end about the time Colin Powell's son was in charge of FCC? Help me out DU. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #25
Australia doesn't allow Fox broadcasting to call itself news, only "entertainment." fierywoman Nov 2020 #26
Unless we're willing to watch the media they watch, we'll never know the full extent. lettucebe Nov 2020 #21
I've heard Limbaugh for over 30 years (not constantly God forbid) and you are right. Brainwashed. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #24
Lace pork rinds with Ecstasy to make them nicer Cicada Nov 2020 #27
I gotta admit (full disclosure) I really like Teriyaki jerkey. Not proud of it, just a fact! Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #43
We must remember that there are FIVE MILLION more of us than them. hamsterjill Nov 2020 #28
I would like to see the media say Trump's racism cost him the election JonLP24 Nov 2020 #30
Really good point Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #44
Civil war ansible Nov 2020 #31
Hope and exposure nuxvomica Nov 2020 #33
no commonality is the core of the problem Amishman Nov 2020 #34
Internment camps? bif Nov 2020 #35
Who cares about them... NameAlreadyTaken Nov 2020 #37
I only wish bdamomma Nov 2020 #42
it is mind-boggling Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #45
Great quote! How true. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #51
In the end, we'll marginalize them and try to govern without them Mr. Ected Nov 2020 #46
I truly hope you are wrong, but fear you are correct in your assessment. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #52
Yeah, it feels like that will be the only solution dustyscamp Nov 2020 #53
You begin by trying to figure out how many groups make up those 70 million. There are the... LAS14 Nov 2020 #47
agree, there are many personality types and enclaves of thought, which is actually normal! Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #48
It's called bdamomma Nov 2020 #49

Turbineguy

(37,212 posts)
2. Joe Biden should give them the speech.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:48 PM
Nov 2020

"For over 30 years you've been lied to by right-wing-hate-radio and Fox News. No wonder you feel the way you do. But you can set yourself free...."

IsItJustMe

(7,012 posts)
50. Reminds me of a passage in the bible
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 09:06 PM
Nov 2020

You shall know the truth and it shall set you free. The cockroaches always scatter when you turn on the lights.

Xipe Totec

(43,872 posts)
3. Seriously, How Did He Get So Many Votes?
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:49 PM
Nov 2020

In his podcast Making Sense, Sam Harris recently shared his view on The Key to Trump’s Appeal. He makes a case that Trump’s wild and unapologetic flaws make his base feel better (versus the Democrats pushing us to reckon with harsh realities like racism, science and math). Harris describes Trump as a ‘Punch you in the face, Grab you in the Pussy, Eat as many cheeseburgers as I want’ — Jesus. As if he is a savior absolving you of your sins by being so ridiculously terrible.

The thing is, we only need an absurd villain and his cheeseburgers to make us feel better about our own flaws when we are terrified to look at them ourselves.

I come from a culture laden with alcohol addiction. In a rare moment of clarity, a member of my family once said “I don’t like it when anyone else stops drinking, because then I feel like I have a problem.”

That person also happened to vote for Trump.

https://medium.com/an-injustice/seriously-how-did-he-get-so-many-votes-d5ab7f6be36c

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
17. YES! That is the explanation I've been looking for-- I thought about it for a moment, but...
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:13 PM
Nov 2020

it was so depressing I discarded it. I've already known that our side starts two steps back because we emphasize responsibilities while theirs preaches rights.

This is directly related to the Christian viewpoint that Christ has absorbed our sins, but altered to where we can keep sinning and Christ will continue to be a picture of Dorian Gray, absorbing our corruption.

We admire Lincoln, Obama, and others who were, in a word, better than us. But we know we cannot reach their heights, so we revel in our depths-- a place we can easily find. Trump's depths, then make us look good by comparison.

I would hope psychologists and philosophers flesh this out some more.

My Pet Orangutan

(9,101 posts)
8. There are about 30% hardcore Trumpers
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 08:57 PM
Nov 2020

who 'strongly approve' of Donald Trump. That's around 46 million Americans.

The remainder 17% (26 million) 'somewhat approve'. This group has varied reasons - big money, tribalism, fossil fuels, earmarks, guns etc. They are prepared to overlook Trump's 'shortcomings' and vote straight ticket GOP, just like they always have.

Voters are tribal. 40% voted Hoover in 1932.

My Pet Orangutan

(9,101 posts)
12. Of the 51% that voted Biden, 46% strongly dissapprove of Trump.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:05 PM
Nov 2020

Of the 47% who voted for Trump. around 30% 'strongly approve' of his presidency.

This is a better measure: 46% v 30%.

The 'somewhat approve' of Trump is a mixed bag, but above all, American voters are tribal. 40% voted Hoover in 1932.

oasis

(49,152 posts)
11. Carry pepper spray on your key chain through 2021. These a-holes are
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:03 PM
Nov 2020

very unpredictable. Many a Deplorable will carry a perpetual chip on their shoulder.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,011 posts)
13. You make sure the voters who are none of those things
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:06 PM
Nov 2020

STAY UNIFIED and show up for EVERY election.

The deplorables are the ones who need to change, not us.

fierywoman

(7,641 posts)
19. Talk to the Germans about how they eliminated Nazi-ism after WWI. Yes, I KNOW
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:55 PM
Nov 2020

they don't have an amendment guaranteeing free speech, but when the free speech destroys the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness NOT ONLY of those who don't agree with the speech but of those supposedly following that kind of free speech ... there must be some way to find a balance.

nuxvomica

(12,365 posts)
32. After WWI, it was the nationalists that continued to ferment
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:24 AM
Nov 2020

The followers of Kaiser Wilhelm, who fled to exile in Holland, was supported by a large nationalist base including, of course, evangelicals. The misery imposed by the Treaty of Versailles ruined Germany and led to the rise of Nazism, an ideology of resentment over economic conditions that engaged in fantasies of world domination. What turned Germany after WWII was the rebuilding and heavy investment by the Allies, especially the US, with the controversial, at the time, Marshall Plan. That's how it's down. Give people real hope for their future and they will abandon their fascist fairy tales.

fierywoman

(7,641 posts)
36. Someone elsewhere was saying that to eliminate the hatred of these groups, if
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 01:59 PM
Nov 2020

we could do a sort of Marshall plan in the US, they thought a lot of the hatred would go away because, as you said, if they had real hope for their future ... (I like this idea...)

fierywoman

(7,641 posts)
20. And in the olden days, light years ago, when most of us here were young, weren't there Federal
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 09:57 PM
Nov 2020

licenses for radio and television that had to comply to certain standards? (When did that end? I was out of the US between 1978-1991.)

lettucebe

(2,336 posts)
21. Unless we're willing to watch the media they watch, we'll never know the full extent.
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 10:14 PM
Nov 2020

They are brainwashed and there is no coming back for the majority. Winning the popular vote and winning electoral college and they still claim it's rigged? You can't combat that sort of ignorance.

Someone said, not sure who, that's it's easier to get someone to change their religion than their beliefs (probably was worded better since to belong to a religion involves beliefs, but I digress).

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
27. Lace pork rinds with Ecstasy to make them nicer
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:07 AM
Nov 2020

I bet pork rind production is concentrated so a small number of late night commando raids could do the job. Plan B? Beef jerky.

hamsterjill

(15,214 posts)
28. We must remember that there are FIVE MILLION more of us than them.
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:12 AM
Nov 2020

I’m seriously tired of that not being rubbed in Trumpers’ faces.

I know that doesn’t help much in particularly red areas of the country, but it is truth.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
30. I would like to see the media say Trump's racism cost him the election
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:16 AM
Nov 2020

Racism is the biggest reason why I will never vote for the Republican party but they aren't interested in that point of view.

nuxvomica

(12,365 posts)
33. Hope and exposure
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:30 AM
Nov 2020

Biden's "Build Back Better" must restore confidence in the government and create a climate of hope among those who think they are economically threatened. But at the same time there must be a reckoning. Trump shouldn't be allowed to foment trouble from exile. He and his enablers need to be exposed for the criminals they are. Biden will have to do both to staunch this wound in the American psyche.

on edit:
The WWII parallel was the Marshall Plan and the Nuremberg Trials.

Amishman

(5,541 posts)
34. no commonality is the core of the problem
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 08:31 AM
Nov 2020

There is very little common ground.

Zero on social issues.

A few things on economic issues.

This is a cultural divide, primarily on urban / rural lines.

The only real long term solution I see is to grant greater autonomy to state and local government, and limit the federal government's ability to overrule on certain issues. This lets blue areas protect access to abortion and truly protect rights based on race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual identity. It lets red areas keep their guns and God. One of the areas where the federal government will keep total power is ensuring people can move between areas, let them watch their best and brightest young people leave and never come back.

bdamomma

(63,658 posts)
42. I only wish
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 05:54 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2020, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

we could build a wall around them.......it's a cult they hang on his every word. Rather sad, not having a mind huh?

Quotes On denial

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed".


......Nietzsche

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
46. In the end, we'll marginalize them and try to govern without them
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 06:03 PM
Nov 2020

Meanwhile, they'll prepare for another civil war. This isn't hyperbole. Frankly, the confederacy never died. The same cast of characters is back on the scene, with new friends and allies they've gathered along the way. They don't want to abide by our Constitution. They want one of their own.

Unlike everyone else on this board, I know the answer to your question, and the answer is war. And we won't be the ones declaring it.

LAS14

(13,749 posts)
47. You begin by trying to figure out how many groups make up those 70 million. There are the...
Mon Nov 16, 2020, 06:07 PM
Nov 2020

.... bullies who just love Trump's thumbing his nose at norms and have no other policy reason for supporting him. (I think we have to let those go.) There are the single issue voters who hold their noses... abortion, immigration (both racist based and not), the economy (never mind that this is misunderstood). There are the lifelong Republicans who just don't pay much attention to politics. I wish I could recover a great article about how FEW those of us are, on both sides, who actually read newspapers or watch cable news... or even regular network news or pay attention to social media. Then, of course, there are the racists, misogynists, etc.

What we can't do is ignore the issue. We can't put our heads in the sand and lump them all together.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How do you even begin wit...