This will be very disappointing, if the Trumps are allowed to get away with their crimes

[Snake Plissken]

Biden Concerned That Federal Investigations into Ex-President Trump Will Further Divide The Country

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/president-elect-biden-wary-trump-focused-investigations-sources-say-n1247959?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

[Abnredleg]

1. Let the States deal with him

He needs to focus on COVID, healthcare, and other priorities in his agenda.

[DonaldsRump]

3. He does, but his Attorney General and US Attorneys can focus on this n/t

[Duppers]

50. Exactly!

Where's the pre-election DU outrage on this matter? Remember the chants of "we can't just 'move on'."

Trump broke Federal Laws too. Letting him slide means that ppl in the top tiers can get away with terrible crimes, making rule of law meaningless!!!! 😡

And the Rethugians can continue illegal activity!!

[ehrnst]

107. He said that independent attys can focus on it.

Which is wise. He should stay out of it, because it cannot appear to be politically motivated.

First, the attorney general must conduct a top-to-bottom review of the DOJ to identify where politicization has influenced investigations, charging decisions, sentencing recommendations, and the like. There should be a particular focus on instances in which Trump administration allies received special treatment or opponents of his administration were targeted. This type of special treatment violates the DOJ’s Justice Manual, which states that “legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence.”7 Where possible, decisions that have been improperly influenced must be revisited.

Second, nonpartisan career prosecutors must be allowed to pursue evidence of wrongdoing without political interference. If officials in the Trump administration—career or political—have broken the law, they must be treated like everyone else and held to account.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2020/08/05/488773/future-president-can-hold-trump-administration-accountable/

[DonaldsRump]

2. Interesting thread on this

https://democraticunderground.com/10142630254

I kinda' think it's a trial balloon.

[riversedge]

22. thank you

[superpatriotman]

4. I disagree

Edit: I disagree with the article and agree completely with the OP
And believe the opposite

[empedocles]

6. The ghost of Watergate looms.

Pardons, time, etc., allowed the 'cons to reconstitute 4 years later - many criminal types came back unscathed.

[bullimiami]

8. Exactly. They are still committing crimes today.

[empedocles]

5. Wholly agreed

Some very simple, obvious, way to start is needed.

trump could provide the opportunity by refusing to vacate WH on Jan 20. That would be clear cause for for law enforcement intervention - with popular support.

[apnu]

7. If Trump refuses to leave, he can kiss his 2024 hopes goodbye

The spectacle of a defiant Trump being removed from the White House will be the end of him politically. No GOP party member will touch him after that. No moderate conservative either.

Trump is already making 2024 noises, so its on his mind.

But then, Trump has a long history of course reversal, ala 1984, so he may think fighting transition through Jan 20 helps him in 2024.

[Ohiogal]

9. His cult loves to call him "a fighter"

And if he is removed forcibly from the WH they’ll get all stirred up and they will idolize him as a “victim of a rigged election and corrupt Democrats”.

Although you would hope the cult crazies will be fewer and fewer as time goes by.

[bdamomma]

95. or will they

label him a "Martyr".

[Demsrule86]

10. Let the states have him...he will pardon himself or get Pence to do it for him.

[Chainfire]

11. Trump will not refuse to leave on Jan. 20

I think that Biden is right as far as Federal prosecution for Trump, however, all of his criminal gang are fair game. We help nothing by making Trump a martyr for half the country, it would assure losing the House in two years and the presidency in four. Let the states pick him apart, NY is perfectly positioned to do so.

Unless we hand Trump a years long news bonanza his days in politics end in eight weeks.

Yea, I too would like to see him burned at the stake, but that is my reptilian side talking, my better judgement says, "Just let it go."

[JI7]

12. "he would leave decisions up to an independent Justice Department."

Why is that disappointing ?

[Sunsky]

13. I agree 100%

This will turn away some voters. We cannot allow this man to get away with what he did. This is beyond partisan politics. This is about our democracy, our system of government, the rights of minorities like myself to live peacefully.

[Meowmee]

16. This

He has to pay for his numerous crimes which include the deaths of hundreds of thousands. To not be able to see that is just bat shit and this country will be toast.

[Blue Owl]

14. It can't be any further divided

[StarfishSaver]

15. Biden also said that he wouldn't get involved but would let his DOJ handle this

He's no dummy and he's no pushover.

Let the man do what he needs to do.

[bdamomma]

97. I agree

let Biden's DOJ handle it.

I just wish they would strip him of his US citizenship. Take away his passport.

[gab13by13]

17. What would Republicans do?

Without being prosecuted Trump can spend more time demanding that Republicans vote against Democratic Bills and have more time to bash president Biden.

IOKIYAR.

[tman]

18. I saw this coming a mile off. No investigations will pave the way for more trumps.

America is broken.

[Trueblue Texan]

21. EXACTLY!!!

[bdamomma]

98. And it's not the first time

Nixon, Bush, and now tRump. Did I leave anyone out??

[Turin_C3PO]

25. Did you actually read the article?

It says Biden would allow the DOJ to do their thing independently. He just won’t get involved. And that’s the correct thing to do.

[Duppers]

52. And...this...

Did you read?

Still, multiple aides said, Biden is generally not inclined to see his Justice Department investigate Trump.

[Demsrule86]

70. Losing in 22 and 24 will likely get Trump reelected. We have to make good on our promises as to

the pandemic, health care etc.

[ehrnst]

110. Who said there would be no investigations? Those will be up to the DOJ. Do you think that they don't

have any case unless Biden says something publicly about wanting investigations of Trump?

[Turin_C3PO]

26. How about giving Biden a chance

before threatening to withhold your support? Anyone who doesn’t support Biden is a friend of fascism and an enemy of democracy.

[Trueblue Texan]

20. Biden had better worry that letting Trump et.al. walk...

...will not only divide his OWN party, but will usher in further abuses and secure the demise of the republic.

[triron]

23. Exactly.

[Duppers]

53. Exactly!

[Demsrule86]

79. Going after Trump in a big way and losing the next two elections is more likely to do this...and we

would Democratic policy since Roosevelt. We are not strong enough to what you suggest.

[ehrnst]

111. The DOJ can investigate and prosecute without a word from Biden, and by law has to.

As the Justice Manual makes clear:

"The legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence. It is imperative that the Department’s investigatory and prosecutorial powers be exercised free from partisan consideration. It is a fundamental duty of every employee of the Department to ensure that these principles are upheld in all of the Department’s legal endeavors."


It's also good strategy to not make Trump think that he needs to start pardoning all his cronies in advance from federal charges...

Because that would guarantee that those people walk, yes?

[Demsrule86]

134. It is not nor should it be Biden's decision.

[marmar]

24. Or maybe that's just public posturing to coax the manchild into conceding.

One can hope.

[Kid Berwyn]

27. Fucking Republicans won't even admit, let alone congratulate, Joe on victory.

Of course he should “Move On!” from their perfidy.

How else can the right wing heal?

[Duppers]

58. 😅

"Heal"? They should be stomped to the degree of their crimes.

However, an analogy to the post-Civil War South could be made. It was in this climate that the Ku Klux Klan was born and the "Redeemers" sought to reestablish the "Old South."

So, these s.o.b.'s won't quit? And we have to coddle their wounded egos to "just get along"?

They broke Laws!

[Meowmee]

28. At some point you have to say enough is ENOUGH

And this is that point. He and his fascist enablers and traitors must be stomped into the dirt forever. Anything else in the face of the lunacy and crimes that have been allowed for 4.5 years, even allowing him to run for office, is suicide. There is no moving on from this ever without repercussions and accountability.

[ehrnst]

31. That is the job of the DOJ, and the states where he committed crimes.

Not the White House.

[Meowmee]

51. Did I say anything about the whiltehouse?

[ehrnst]

54. The OP you were responding to was about the President elect, yes?

[Meowmee]

57. I am against

Biden not taking a stronger stance on this which can be done without him directing any investigations. At some point you have to start fighting back or what is the point of having won an election? Do we allow the country to be run by these lunes even when they have lost or do we do something to shut it down for good. Otherwise as I said before the country as we knew it is toast. If dumpster et al slide it will be a disaster.

[ehrnst]

60. So that's a yes, you are talking about the WH?

Ok then.

[Meowmee]

63. talking about what is said by Biden, as I already explained.

[ehrnst]

64. So, that's a yes, you were talking about the WH.

Got it.

[Meowmee]

68. No I am talking about the prez elect

he has already weighed in on it by saying anything, isn’t that against the rules? Maybe you should send him a text and tell him he’s not supposed to.

[ehrnst]

106. The President elect is indeed the WH in terms of discussing the OP.

[Demsrule86]

75. The point is to save social security, Medicare, disability. The point is to save people from dying

Covid...the point is to get Democratic policy like health care through not to spend four years going after Trump. What would that gain us exactly? The point is to pass enough popular policy to win in 2022 and 2024 and not let Trump win again. Did we learn nothing from 10? Support Biden let him have a chance to do it his way. I know some on this thread believe, we would end Trump's support if we go after him hard, I heard the same thing during impeachment and yet impeachment left Trump more popular and going after him now would make him more popular.

[Meowmee]

77. No, this is too important

If you want a usa again without more dictators and fascists. People need to get that. It started with letting Nixon off the hook.

[Demsrule86]

83. No it isn't. This is not a fight we should wage now...not in these circumstances...and I

don't give two fucks about Nixon. I wasn't even alive.

[Meowmee]

84. I was alive

And I do know the history. Maybe you should care about it. And it is too important, very much so.

[Demsrule86]

87. I don't care about ancient history. We are in a depression and have thousands dying everyday

of a deadly pandemic. I hate Trump but nothing could hurt him more than a successful Biden administration and Democratic wins in 22 and 24...what you suggest would cost us the coming elections and we will lose important policy if this happens. Lete the states prosecute Trump and the AG...Biden needs to send help immediately. And Trump may not end up in jail, but he is a one term president and God willing will be dead by 2024. If we make this a stand now, we will lose the Georgia Senate seats as well.

[Meowmee]

88. You should care

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

It is not about revenge, it is about accountability and preventing an even worse event than what we have in the future. I have to wonder why someone on a political forum apparently has no interest in political history and feels the need to deride others who do and who remember.

[Demsrule86]

91. Why? Do we need revenge for that to? I will pass. Thanks. We have enough 21st century

problems.

[ehrnst]

108. +1000

[Demsrule86]

82. Absolutlely...it is a bad idea to play politics and go after Trump as a party.

People want help.

[Duppers]

59. Bravo!

[Hotler]

104. +1 nt

[ehrnst]

113. So how do you propose to "not allow" someone to run for office?

What constitutional or legal mechanism is there that prevents anyone who meets the criteria for age and citizenship from running for POTUS?

How is it that you think Democratic leaders could have "disallowed" Trump from running in 2016, as you somehow think they should have? Even Reince Priebus and the RNC couldn't take him out as the candidate, and they tried after the Access Hollywood tape came out.

[LizBeth]

29. I'm so done with Democrats not being aggressive with Republican crimes and misbehavior. I thought we

as voters made it clear, and it reached Biden that this time we wanted something done, the voters. And I thought Biden nodded his head that he heard us, n0ow this. The greatest disappointment with Obama is that he moved on. But I got it, I understood why as first black man president. But this is repercussion of not doing anything then, and so much worse. Biden cannot turn his back on this or he won't have the people in 2022.

Biden literally owes each and every one of us enduring this for four years.

[ehrnst]

30. That's the job of the DOJ, not the POTUS. So, no, "Biden" doesn't "owe" anyone

using the WH to order the DOJ to prosecute someone.

Do you really think that the DOJ doesn't have enough of a case to prosecute without being ordered to by the WH?

We've had enough unethical use of the DOJ in the last four years by the WH to last the rest of our history, even if that doesn't satisfy people who don't know how the separation of powers works.

[LizBeth]

32. Yes, Biden does owe us voters he asked to dump our candidates to vote for him to unite. He promised

the weakest of a promise to hold those accountable, but still there was a promise that he recognized the corruption and criminality we have all witnessed for four years, and he would not just move on. Again, as light as it could get, but it was there.

You keep talking about separation of DOJ while pretending that Biden now with the stance that we kumbaya, unite, and love one another.... Work together will not drive the direction of all of his administration, including DOJ. I am not stupid. I am not playing either.

Obama in 2008 said we would move forward. Begets us to today. Many were concerned we would have 2008 move on in 2020. We are more concerned now with what we have heard from Biden, and see what Republicans are doing in just the last two days.

He owes us. All of us uniting behind Biden for reasons, expect more than simply moving forward and fistbumping a Graham on the senate floor, while just that morning or day before Graham interfered with Georgia election.

I love Harris, she will do terrific. I know nothing of what she is feeling, and what she felt with the fistbump, but we are listening to an awful lot of conversation many of us are not good with. we have been doing this long enough, are aware and informed enough to understand what happens when we start hearing certain language. It is almost a gaslight to tell us we are not hearing what we are hearing, seeing, what we are seeing. And I think, or hope many many of us are done with the gaslighting.

Now, please tell me if I am misinterpreting this.


Edit to add, because I like solutions instead of just going on with problems: If Biden is not going to do it, does not want to or not in him because not all are confrontational, hire someone. I am good with that, too. Actually, that is what I expect. But he cannot sabotage that person telling them we are moving forward, leave the past alone. Unite. I think. Put a Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Warren in there. I do not think that is being unreasonable and I want solid ground and running for 2022. I want the senate.

[ehrnst]

34. So you're saying that the POTUS "owes us" directing the DOJ to prosecute someone, like

Trump tried to do with HRC? And you don't believe him when he said he would not interfere or stop anyone in his DOJ who moved forward with an investigation of Trump?

And Harris participating in a fist bump with Graham is somehow being complicit with Republicans and indicates "gaslighting?"

Now, please tell me if I am misinterpreting this.

Also, perhaps you are confusing me with someone else who promotes "the stance that we kumbaya, unite, and love one another," because that's attacking a strawman if you're trying to portray my posts as saying that.

[LizBeth]

36. No Erhnst that is not what I am saying, but what you keep asking me if I am saying.

[ehrnst]

37. Also - who here called you "stupid?"

Or said you were "playing?"

You keep talking about separation of DOJ while pretending that Biden now with the stance that we kumbaya, unite, and love one another.... Work together will not drive the direction of all of his administration, including DOJ. I am not stupid. I am not playing either.

Are you confusing me with someone else?

[treestar]

38. Why would you not do what is in your own interest?

Politics does not work like that. You are in a minority who wanted some other candidate and you think the eventual winner has to earn your support, because you are like, so important? You have to join with the "centrists" and all the others to get anything of what you want.

We have to get Covid under control and the economy - most people care more about that than about revenge against the Dotard. For him, losing is a Uge punishment anyway.

[LizBeth]

39. None of what you are talking about applies to me. I see crisis. Crisis that is addressed by

Presidents and we cannot simply move forward. I see threats on human life that need to be addressed. I do not think I am the bad guy, or the unreasonable person. I am sorry you see me as that, but no.

[treestar]

40. You said people gave up their candidate

to vote for Biden, so those people then, who think Biden owes them a prosecution of Dump. Let the DOJ and states do it, and it is the best we can get. Biden shouldn't spend time talking about Dump, or Dump will be in the news all the time.

[LizBeth]

41. I am saying we had a very special primary, and uniting behind Biden, promises were made.

If you have read any of my posts in this subthread, then I would think the conversation would be different. I feel like what I am being ignored so you can argue something totally different. That confuses me. So... I will move on. We are talking past each other or something.

[ehrnst]

43. "Promises were made" - can you specify what promises that were made you think are being broken?

[ehrnst]

56. I asked a question... you call that "trying to shut down conversation?"

You're the one who is silent here.

[ehrnst]

65. Still waiting for an answer.

[ehrnst]

42. Who here called you "the bad guy?"

If you need to misrepresent other people's statements to make your point, perhaps your point needs to be reconsidered.

[ehrnst]

45. FYI...

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:36 AM - Edit history (1)

First, the attorney general must conduct a top-to-bottom review of the DOJ to identify where politicization has influenced investigations, charging decisions, sentencing recommendations, and the like. There should be a particular focus on instances in which Trump administration allies received special treatment or opponents of his administration were targeted. This type of special treatment violates the DOJ’s Justice Manual, which states that “legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence.”7 Where possible, decisions that have been improperly influenced must be revisited.

Second, nonpartisan career prosecutors must be allowed to pursue evidence of wrongdoing without political interference. If officials in the Trump administration—career or political—have broken the law, they must be treated like everyone else and held to account.

Third, there must be a recognition of the breadth of corruption across the executive branch. This problem is bigger than the White House and its current occupant. Throughout government, a culture of corruption has set in, where officials put their own interests before the public interest. A number of agency heads in the Trump administration have been forced to resign due to corruption scandals.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2020/08/05/488773/future-president-can-hold-trump-administration-accountable/

[Demsrule86]

74. You have to trust Biden...let him do as he thinks best. And Biden never said he would go after

Trump, he said it would be left to the AG and the states as it should be. It might make us feel great to torture Trump (for sure). But what does it gain us. Does it help the economy no and does it help with the need to fight the virus...it doesn't. I don't know if Trump will face the justice he deserves or not. At this point, we must save the country. I am not sure we can do both.

[LizBeth]

85. "It might make us feel great to torture Trump (for sure)" This is what bothers me. It is not even

close to the gist of what I was talking about. Personally, I do not think, no matter what is proven about Trump, he will go to prison or really suffer any repercussion but his ego and reputation, but certainly not jail time.

That is not the point of a single one of my posts and I think clearly not the point with the post you are replying to. I stand with this post you replied to and feel strongly there have to be lines drawn, boundaries clearly made or the next Republican to turn us to facism will be that much closer.

Let Pelosi go at it with backing and support, she knows what is up. At the very least she calls people, including the media out, WHILE doing her job and getting things done.

But no, I think it was wrong we moved on in 2008, but I understood. I think simply moving on in 2008 hurt us in 2010 and helped get us here in 2020.

Biden Concerned That Federal Investigations into Ex-President Trump Will Further Divide The Country

This is what I was responding to and by this comment, it is suggesting Biden is not "allowing" AG to do what they feel they need to do, but actively discouraging it. This was what got my first comment and I feel like every since the conversation is flipped upside down.

[Demsrule86]

90. I don't want the House to go near this...we will lose in 2022 if she does. Do you understand we

are in a really bad wa? We have huge unemployment and a deadly pandemic raging. Social Security will be bankrupt in 23. The ACA is on life support. We must send help. Biden promised to unite and help people . He did not run on going after Trump. We must spend our time and resources saving this country ...not with endless hearings and subpoenas. The House and Senate if we are lucky enough to get it must work for the people. And if this defines us before Georgia,we will lose. We must go after the do nothing Senate (if we don't get it) day after day and attack the GOP for not helping hurting Americans.

[LizBeth]

96. I disagree it is one or the other.

[Demsrule86]

99. It will be perceived as such and what is the point? He is likely to be pardoned...states and

anthe AG could look into it...and that might work...otherwise let it go. We have a bare majority in the House....moderates from red or purple states gave us the majority...and going after Trump endangers the House. It is so not worth it.

[LizBeth]

103. Surely we have ways and means to tighten things up so we have a little more control over the future.

Surely it will not always be the Republicans can do, say, be whatever they want and Dems continue forward fixing their messes and no power at all to confront the dishonesty and harm to all of us and the nation? I cannot believe that we are so unable, with our smarts we have on our side.

I agree. Focus on Georgia and the plus is we have two terrific candidates. Biden can do a lot with executive orders and strengthening the Departments trump has weakened or decimated. And in 2022 strengthen the House and take or strengthen the senate. Then pass law.

[Demsrule86]

114. We are in big trouble as a party. We have driven off many of our big donors with our purity

tests despite the need for money. After 2008, we gave up in the 50 state strategy. I don't know why. It delivered a 60 vote Senate and Virginia. I think we have been waiting for Demographics, but I am not convinced that is going to happen. We have been demonized by the right continuously.Talk radio has certainly hurt us and now we have digital media to deal with also. We have turned on our own, like
Al Franken and Governor Northam (thank God he didn't fall for it) Fully half the country hates us.

And we are a party at war with itself. The party was divided to such an extent that some who call themselves Democrats did not vote for the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in 2016. I have seen some on this site in the past talk about 'message voting' as if electing the GOP is ever a good thing for our side...and this thread kind of shows that we have forgotten what it takes to win elections. Joe Biden understood and he won. He did better than those running for the House and the Senate. We need to win elections...and going after Trump as a party particularly if Biden does it will IMHO, cost us 2022 and maybe 2024. We have way bigger issues than making sure Trump pays...although he deserves to pay. The country deserves to have us keep our promises or at least try...we need to send help to a desperate population. This is our Roosevelt moment.

[ehrnst]

119. He is making sure that he, as POTUS, is NOT seen calling for investigations for Trump,

because that's the DOJ's determination to make.

Just as Pelosi mad sure to be seen as "reluctant" to impeach Trump, to the point where people here swore up and down that she would NEVER impeach him for anything, because she was simply 'anti-impeachment.'

Also, I'm sure Biden doesn't want Trump to think that he needs to pardon a bunch of his cronies for federal crimes in advance, which would ensure that they don't come to justice.

Frankly I think it's a very good strategy.

[LizBeth]

35. This is one in a million reasons the President addresses it. This right here. We have a Sec of State

in Az putting out a statement of the threats made on her, family and employees by a certain population. This conversation has to be had. Lines and =boundaries have to be made and that is on Biden, too. He has a full plate, the nation is a mess, it is going to take time. A lot to do. And in this moment we have a acting President purposely creating destruction. More lines and boundaries. Musts.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214576820

[ehrnst]

46. Why do you think that conversation "isn't being had" - it's being investigated

And you just linked to a press release about it... and we're talking about it, yes?

[ehrnst]

47. That's being investigated...

[LizBeth]

48. Your goal seems to be shutting down conversation in all these posts. I get that tactic.

You are a success. Congrats, lol.

[ehrnst]

55. Shutting down conversation? By pointing out facts?

Is that what happens when someone responds to you with facts?

[Demsrule86]

69. We are in the middle of a huge pandemic...that has kill a half a million Americans...seriously

we need to try to help the country...I promise you if we spend two years going after Trump and not helping sufficiently...we may very well lose 2022 and 2024. We have a depression on the way if we are not already facing it. Priorities must be the American people...let the states take care of Trump or the AG.

[LizBeth]

89. Nowhere is there the suggestiong Biden ought to walk in and not deal with a number of the fires

Trump is setting right here and now to do what? Exclusively use that time with all resources and personal to try and put Trump away in jail?

Do you really think I am suggesting that Biden does not have a full plate he is walking into, while being sabotaged at this very moment by Trump not letting the letter to be signed so there is a smooth transition let alone deal with the pandemic?

As I, an old woman, sits here unemployed about to lose whatever UI I had Dec 26 and possibly my ACA during a pandemic?

I addressed the comment that Biden felt prosecuting federally would hurt "uniting" the nation. Prosecution won't have shit to do with hurting uni9ting the nation. The Republicans and supporters have made it very clear they have not an iota of interest in uniting.

[Demsrule86]

101. No they won't unite and we must punish them every day ...the do nothing Senate if we don't

get it but damn I pray we do...about the unemployment. as you know hubs just got a job...but we spent eight months out and before that were out with the GM strike...and helping people like you and others has to be our first priority. I think the AG should go after Trump and the the states...just want the house and the Senate to stay out of it assuming we get the Senate. We should stop second guessing Biden and and work to get the Georgia seats...our very lives depend on it. This originated from politico by the way which is way right... and Michael signorelli on Sirius said it was overblown...that Biden just said it would be left up to Justice and the States...as it should be IMHO...prayers for a great job for you soon or something good...believe me I get it.

[LizBeth]

102. I read about your husband just getting that job and now they are talking about shutting down for a

bit? Whatever, putting you guys in a precarious position again. It is scary times.

I am on Biden, the dems side. Solid Dem here and have been for decades. I do not think it is in Biden's nature to be confrontational and not all people are. Those like Biden have their strength and worth for sure. But, I do not think it behooves any of us to continue forward as if the last four years didn't happen.

This is what people are concerned about. Not about Biden getting out front on this, but allowing anyone to address it.

"Still, multiple aides said, Biden is generally not inclined to see his Justice Department investigate Trump."

It is a wait and see, but after 2008, Biden being who he is, people are going to be concerned with headlines like these.

[SoonerPride]

33. They are going to be pardoned anyway so it's moot

As much as I want them to hang they never will for federal crimes.

States might still get them.

[Caliman73]

49. Not sure if your timelines are accurate.

Trump and Pence can't pardon anyone when they are out of office. The post is about how the Biden Administration will conduct themselves regarding investigations into the Trump administration. I think for now, Biden is doing the right thing. His job as President is to focus on the economy, COVID, and foreign relations, among other things. His appointment to the DOJ will hopefully be someone with a strong sense of justice and with an understanding of exactly how Trump came to be president.

I am certainly no historian, but I believe a case can be made that pardoning Nixon, and failing to investigate his treason with the Vietnamese in 68 lead to Reagan and allowing Reagan and his administration get away with Reagan's treason and crimes in Iran-Contra lead to GW Bush. Not investigating Bush and Cheney's war crimes led to Trump.

Biden said he would not pardon Trump, nor would he direct the DOJ to prosecute or not to prosecute Trump.

[lame54]

44. That'sNOTJusticeJoe

[LanternWaste]

61. We get it... you too want a politized Justice Department.

The more things change, eh?

But I am rather bemused at how how you infer non-existent absolutes to arrive at your disappointment. In logic, that's called a non-sequiter, in other words, your conclusions do not necessarily follow the given evidence.

[nuxvomica]

62. We need both a Marshall Plan and Nuremberg trials

People need hope for an economic future and exposure of the crimes committed in their name. Otherwise, national unity is a pipe dream.

[ansible]

66. We had a chance with that in 2009 until Pelosi said no

And an actual case to build up too considering how much of a slaughterhouse Iraq was.

[Demsrule86]

72. I never thought there was any criminal charges from Iraq...bad judgement and bad policy yes.

Nancy was correct.

[JI7]

80. Bernie Sanders opposed it

[Demsrule86]

92. He was right IMHO.

[Demsrule86]

71. Some on this thread are very unrealistic I fear. We will at best have a bare minimum in

the House and Senate. We have an economy on life support and and a president who will no doubt be pardoned. And yet Biden needs to according to some make getting revenge or bringing justice to 'Trump' if it is even possible- a priority. I say bullshit. The American people are suffering and that must be the priority. It makes sense politically too as we are bound to lose the house and either not regain the Senate (2022 is pretty good for us) or lose it if we play politics rather than help Americans.

[nuxvomica]

73. I don't think it's unrealistic to try people for crimes

Whether it's the state courts or federal, we can't let these people slide. It's unrealistic to expect the behavior to stop if there are no consequences.

[Demsrule86]

78. Biden needs to stay out of it...and Trump may never be found guilty of any crimes which is

depressing but true. I want to see Democratic policy pass...and putting this in the media could cost us Georgia. People voted for unity and that is the truth.

[nuxvomica]

81. Yes, Biden should stay out of it

A lot of this is about moving the ethical goalposts back to where they should be so the president should stay out of it and focus on rebuilding.

[Demsrule86]

86. Exactly what I think. Trump isn't worth losing important Democratic policy dating to Roosevelt's

time. It is going to really hard to do this. I pray we get Georgia...and this sort of talk will for sure make us lose.

[ehrnst]

112. That is not the purview of the White House, and if Biden starts talking about that, he's violating

the very laws against partisan influence of the justice system that we want Trump prosecuted for.

[LizBeth]

120. Biden Concerned That Federal Investigations into Ex-President Trump Will Further Divide The Country

Still, multiple aides said, Biden is generally not inclined to see his Justice Department investigate Trump.



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/president-elect-biden-wary-trump-focused-investigations-sources-say-n1247959

You are insisting thru your posts, I argue something with you I have no interest in arguing with you.

This is my only interesting. Biden is not interested and a little concerned even. So keep arguing your other stuff, you can educate someone. But, as I said 10 of your posts ago, we are discussing different stuff. I am sorry I have not been articulate enough to convey that to you.

[ehrnst]

121. You only know what has been made public. You think Biden is unaware of what effect messaging has

on Trump?

I don't think you know what Biden is thinking, or actually saying to people. I give him and his advisors far, far more credit for understanding the effect of what gets "leaked" has on a man who might be triggered into pardoning everyone around him pre-emptively.

I think you underestimate and dismiss Biden and his team as much as many people here on DU did Pelosi when she said "Trump isn't worth impeaching."

Apology accepted.

[LizBeth]

123. Yes Ehrnst, this is what I repeatedly say. We only know what we are told. And what we hear CONCERNS

us. Hence, our expression of concern for what has been said publicly. Correct. That is what we are discussing. No more. No less. Only to the point of what we have PUBLICLY heard.

[ehrnst]

124. Yes, and you still haven't acknowledged that he can't appear to be interfering in the DOJ process

So what he is saying is not only good strategy to not trigger Trump into a bunch of pardons for his cronies, it keeps him out of ethical and legal swampterritory that Trump himself trespassed in.

First, the attorney general must conduct a top-to-bottom review of the DOJ to identify where politicization has influenced investigations, charging decisions, sentencing recommendations, and the like. There should be a particular focus on instances in which Trump administration allies received special treatment or opponents of his administration were targeted. This type of special treatment violates the DOJ’s Justice Manual, which states that “legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence.” Where possible, decisions that have been improperly influenced must be revisited.

Second, nonpartisan career prosecutors must be allowed to pursue evidence of wrongdoing without political interference. If officials in the Trump administration—career or political—have broken the law, they must be treated like everyone else and held to account.

Third, there must be a recognition of the breadth of corruption across the executive branch. This problem is bigger than the White House and its current occupant. Throughout government, a culture of corruption has set in, where officials put their own interests before the public interest. A number of agency heads in the Trump administration have been forced to resign due to corruption scandals.
................................

.As the Justice Manual makes clear:

The legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence. It is imperative that the Department’s investigatory and prosecutorial powers be exercised free from partisan consideration. It is a fundamental duty of every employee of the Department to ensure that these principles are upheld in all of the Department’s legal endeavors.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2020/08/05/488773/future-president-can-hold-trump-administration-accountable/



But your "CONCERN" is noted.

[LizBeth]

125. I have not suggested Biden interfere with DOJ. So again, you go on about something

I am not talking. Days later and you are still going on.

[ehrnst]

126. Your posts indicate otherwise.

Days later, and you're still replying...

[Demsrule86]

67. I heard on progressive radio...that this is overblown. You do understand that the

GOP are trying to take the country down salt it for Biden...there is much that has to be done...the host said that he will turn it over to the AJ and leave it there...and also state courts are where the action is...if you want to lose the house and/or Senate(if we get i) in 2022 than launch
massive investigations in the house and / or Senate instead of sending help to the people.

[PufPuf23]

76. Not doing investigations and convictions in the past turned out real well

Nixon
Reagan
Bush the elder
Bush the lesser

Why we have experienced Trump and where the USA in an international laughing stock that refuses to protect its own citizens in a nation at the brink of extreme catastrophy is because deep investigations and harsh prosecution did not occur.

If this does not occur, I predict the USA will be an authoritarian dictatorship within 20 years if not much sooner.

Hopefully Biden is playing nice and biding (bidening) his time.

[Demsrule86]

93. So your solution is to use Justice to go after Trump...rather than be independent...seems to

me that leads more quickly to dictatorship. We need to have laws about Justice and the president...not just norms. But just because you disagree with the GOP and God knows I do doesn't mean there are prosecutable crimes...I could see a Trump prosecution from Justice or in the states...but not Reagan, Bush1 or Bush 11. I heartily disliked all of them. Although I barely remember the first two.

[PufPuf23]

105. Reagan Iran-Contra where arms were traded for hostages and the proceeds were used

to fund the Contras in Nicaragua which was specifically not permitted by the Boland Amendment.

GWB lied the nation into a war of aggression against Iraq and is a War Criminal.

GHWB must have done something.

I was a student at Cal when Reagan was California Governor and was a federal employee when Reagan was POTUS. Cal and the specific agency I worked for were special targets of Reagan. I resigned after 16 years as a Fed employee (was a career Fed before starting at Cal and worked in a federal research lab in Berkely while attending Cal), not criminal but to show I was there.

I am not certain of the specific mechanisms to legally root the rot out of system, just that it needs to be done and what we face today is because of the past failures to specifically choose not to prosecute serious crimes.

[Demsrule86]

115. That is ancient history...and I doubt either Regan or GWB could be prosecuted but I don't give a

damn one way or the other. What we are supposed to take revenge now on every bad GOP president and not send help to the people? I think that is the wrong approach. Trump should be dealt with by justice and the states. We need to save the nation.

[PufPuf23]

116. Revenge is not the term at all to use; it is not revenge but justice and

criminal actions having consequences.

Polititions and their associates not having consequences for criminal acts is why the USA is so messed up now.

Democratic POTUSs have not committed the crimes and grift of the GOP POTUSs, one good reason to be a Democrat.

I started voting in 1972 and have not missed an election. The only time I have not voted for a Democrat was in 1980 when I voted for John Anderson in the CA GOP primary to slow Reagan. The only $ have ever donated to any pol is $1000 to POTUS Obama in 2008.

The Democratic party especially when they have an even slight edge (like now) need to be every bit as aggressive towards the GOP as the GOP has been to us.

Now is not the time to be bi-partisan. The time to be bi-partisan in current context is when the GOP comes to the Democrats on bended knee asking for bi-partisanship and showing concrete examples of their commitment. To act otherwise is self-destruction. To act bi-partisan now before a buy in first by the GOP is extreme foolishness and why the situation is what it is today. Frankly I am not optimistic.

Edit to add: one crucial item and an item that will be telling is who Biden choses for AG and other ralkated appointments. Problem is these agencies need a fumigation because Trump and the GOP have put so many individuals into positions where the individual does not support the mission of the agency but was selected for politcal philosophy, grift, and agency destruction. The damage is deep.

[Demsrule86]

117. Sorry...I don't care about Reagan or Bush. I live in the now. Trump is no doubt a criminal

but it has to be proven in court...and I believe that needs to happen at Justice or in the states. Trump may be too slippery to convict too. Sending help to the American people is why Biden was elected not to go after Trump even though he has it coming... I don't recommend endless hearings in the house at this time when people are really hurting. Send help or risk electing Trump again in 2024 or some GOP who could be worse than Trump. We have to consider politics because winning elections is essential and the only way we can stop Trump and the Republicans. Social Security, health care, Medicare etc are all at risk if we lose.

[PufPuf23]

118. We have the same ends; stop Trump and the Republicans. Social Security, health care, Medicare etc

just disagree on how to get there.

One needs to learn from the past.

IMO Biden will fail if Trump et al are not prosecuted. Everything Biden tries to provide to the American people will be sabotaged by Trumpers and the GOP. Of course Biden needs to care and bring relief to the American people of highest priority, granted far too many Americans will reject the relief because they are not so bright and IMO lack some basic humanity and morality. Could be (and my optimist side says) Biden is playing possum now and will appoint a strong AG and, even then, keep a respectable distance while others concentrate in teaching consequences to criminals.

Agree about winning elections but once the elections are won the right things need to occur. Hey how about turning Ohio Blue? But even California has a large segment of the population enamored with Trump and the GOP. Scary.

[ehrnst]

127. That's up to the DOJ, not Biden.

First, the attorney general must conduct a top-to-bottom review of the DOJ to identify where politicization has influenced investigations, charging decisions, sentencing recommendations, and the like. There should be a particular focus on instances in which Trump administration allies received special treatment or opponents of his administration were targeted. This type of special treatment violates the DOJ’s Justice Manual, which states that “legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence.” Where possible, decisions that have been improperly influenced must be revisited.

Second, nonpartisan career prosecutors must be allowed to pursue evidence of wrongdoing without political interference. If officials in the Trump administration—career or political—have broken the law, they must be treated like everyone else and held to account.

Third, there must be a recognition of the breadth of corruption across the executive branch. This problem is bigger than the White House and its current occupant. Throughout government, a culture of corruption has set in, where officials put their own interests before the public interest. A number of agency heads in the Trump administration have been forced to resign due to corruption scandals.
................................

.As the Justice Manual makes clear:

The legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence. It is imperative that the Department’s investigatory and prosecutorial powers be exercised free from partisan consideration. It is a fundamental duty of every employee of the Department to ensure that these principles are upheld in all of the Department’s legal endeavors.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2020/08/05/488773/future-president-can-hold-trump-administration-accountable/

[PufPuf23]

129. I stated in several of the above posts that Biden should pick a strong

Attorney General (to head the Department of Justice). This is a key point.

The choice of AG will be a strong signal as to how the criminality of Trump and enablers will be addressed. Then Joe Biden can get busy POTUSing while the AG and DOJ does their thing to protect America and teach the lesson that criminal actions have consequences. No doubt the DOJ needs a thorough fumigation of the individuals that are in the agency and put party or personality over justice (after all ain't called Justice Department for nothing).

Both you and the other poster make the assumption that I don't understand how the system works and that the DOJ is not partisan. Well duh. We are on the same side and your post and the post of the other poster look like preparation for the criminalty not being addressed like the past.

Are you implying that the crimes of Trump et al (and past crimes of Reagan and GWB) are equivalent in criminality to actions by Democratic adminsitrations? They are not and the failure to address those criminal administrations is why the USA is on the verge of failure today. If Biden does not appoint a strong AG and fumigate the DOJ followed by investigation and severe prosecution, he will lose support within the Democratic party. The same shit and probably worse will happen in the next GOP administration.

[ehrnst]

130. "Duh?"

Are you implying that the crimes of Trump et al (and past crimes of Reagan and GWB) are equivalent in criminality to actions by Democratic adminsitrations?

Strawman, anyone?

If Biden does not appoint a strong AG and fumigate the DOJ followed by investigation and severe prosecution, he will lose support within the Democratic party. The same shit and probably worse will happen in the next GOP administration.

Your pessimism about Biden and concern that he will fail in judgement are noted.

[PufPuf23]

131. So you are against a strong AG and a fumigated Trump politicized DOJ?

What kind of veiled threat is this?

>>Your pessimism about Biden and concern that he will fail in judgement are noted.

[ehrnst]

132. Please.

Don't set up and attack strawmen then expect others to defend them.

[WyattKansas]

94. Biden will pay a BIGGER political price than President Obama paid with overlooking Dubya &...

NOT going far enough with Obamacare.

When the American People give you the power to do what is right, you don't squander that power by not provoking those who are already bat shit loony and defrauding the American People.

Also, America is sick and tired of this same old wash and repeat cycle of Republicans literally destroying everything, getting off completely free, and coming back to destroy more and push the country further toward ruin in the next cycle. No more of this shit, rubbing elbows with Republicans at cocktail parties and chit chatting about your kids playing together, because those same people slit your throat as they pick your pocket... Enough of the Democratic Party's fixation with masochistic operating procedure to pacify Republicans!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

100. Lack of accountability won't make the country any more divided than it already is.

However, it will reinforce the views of the RW that they and T**** are in the right and are innocent victims.

I don't see any possible upside to withholding accountability.

[ehrnst]

122. Who said there would be "witholding accountability?"

[ehrnst]

128. ???

[ehrnst]

109. Biden **cannot** ethically or legally promote or influence any DOJ investigation against Trump

even if he does personally support it. This is exactly what Trump will be investigated for doing - influencing the DOJ to go after his opponents.

First, the attorney general must conduct a top-to-bottom review of the DOJ to identify where politicization has influenced investigations, charging decisions, sentencing recommendations, and the like. There should be a particular focus on instances in which Trump administration allies received special treatment or opponents of his administration were targeted. This type of special treatment violates the DOJ’s Justice Manual, which states that “legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence.” Where possible, decisions that have been improperly influenced must be revisited.

Second, nonpartisan career prosecutors must be allowed to pursue evidence of wrongdoing without political interference. If officials in the Trump administration—career or political—have broken the law, they must be treated like everyone else and held to account.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2020/08/05/488773/future-president-can-hold-trump-administration-accountable/

[Demsrule86]

133. Please stop. This has been posted at least five times..doesn't improve with age.

We have a pandemic and a crushed economy. Trump will likely pardon himself and his shitty family...others too. The AG will decide on any charges as he/she should . Also, there are existing state charges. But we should not have endless committees in Congress or special prosecutors ...no. The people will toss us out in 22 and 24 if we don't send help and keep our promise to unite and work for the American people. I hope we get the Senate. This is critical. That is what I care about at this moment. And stopping Trump from killing more Americans and stealing the election.

[Snake Plissken]

135. You're responding to a week old post

So tell me ... who is the one that needs to stop?