Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
85 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
AOC: If you say "socialism" three times in a mirror... (Original Post) melman Nov 2020 OP
I'm sure they don't grow angel wings. Autumn Nov 2020 #1
Funny. But in the real world repug attack ads say socialism... brush Nov 2020 #2
I'm sorry but what ISN'T socialism to Republicans? ck4829 Nov 2020 #3
Whatever your post means, repugs don't do nuance. brush Nov 2020 #8
Agree anamnua Nov 2020 #27
And yet both are a part of the Socialist Party. ahoysrcsm Nov 2020 #64
+1000 Celerity Nov 2020 #66
This Trump supporter defines socialism JonLP24 Nov 2020 #5
I saw that a couple of days ago. It's so pathetic. brush Nov 2020 #10
So for that person, a Socialist is a person who is NOT a White Supremacist Captain Zero Nov 2020 #28
+1. The 'socialism' thing is fear of 'black people getting free stuff' radius777 Nov 2020 #55
Funny. But in the real world repug attack ads say socialism... LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #9
I don't look to Clyburn on what to say JonLP24 Nov 2020 #13
"I don't look to Clyburn on what to say." LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #20
My mother told me she voted for Biden but almost didn't. why? "Defund the Police" Captain Zero Nov 2020 #30
did she actually think Biden would remove all police funding and there would be no police? maxsolomon Nov 2020 #35
They also say socialism Bettie Nov 2020 #11
Even more reason to stop with the jokes about socialism. brush Nov 2020 #15
Or you point out how friggin' ridiculous they are. TDale313 Nov 2020 #22
Exactly melman Nov 2020 #24
Here's what gets me... TDale313 Nov 2020 #26
She needs to tamper down on the socialism jokes et al ... LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #32
She needs to keep doing exactly what she doing. Autumn Nov 2020 #38
"Anybody whining about "The Democrat Socialist party" like your friend in GA..." LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #39
We all have every right to say what we want . Including AOC. She has always talked about Autumn Nov 2020 #40
We all have every right to say what we want . Including AOC. LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #41
She's been elected TWICE talking about socialism. So yes, she can do whatever she pleases. Autumn Nov 2020 #45
She's been elected TWICE talking about socialism. So yes, she can do whatever she pleases. LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #47
That's right NY is a lot bluer than GA who has voted Dem ONCE since 1996. Autumn Nov 2020 #54
No it is scary because it costs us elections and could cost us the Georgia seats. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #43
Exactly, we can't be afraid of our own shadow. AOC is correct radius777 Nov 2020 #56
And that's the thing our side reactively frames the entire debate Bettie Nov 2020 #67
Some people would have us believe this has never happened before. Mariana Nov 2020 #62
Really, really starting to appreciate her Biophilic Nov 2020 #4
Post removed Post removed Nov 2020 #12
Is that "corporate lobbyist-backed" candidate a Democrat who can actually win a competitive seat? brooklynite Nov 2020 #6
Ads portrayed Jaime Harrison as a lobbyist in South Carolina JonLP24 Nov 2020 #14
Ads also called him a far, far left radical octoberlib Nov 2020 #25
"People down here don't give a flying fuck if he was a lobbyist. That kind of messaging.. LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #46
Scary, but you're right ... LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #51
Yep. Jaime ran some really smart, good ads octoberlib Nov 2020 #63
Yep. Jaime ran some really smart, good ads LenaBaby61 Nov 2020 #71
+1,000,000 George II Nov 2020 #21
Are there enough of her type to keep the house? I think not...so adorable really. I am so not Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #42
I don't know the point of that tweet qazplm135 Nov 2020 #7
WWND? NurseJackie Nov 2020 #18
But you prove that it doesn't matter the reality. Repubs use it as a boogie man. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #33
Who is blaming AOC? qazplm135 Nov 2020 #36
It is a message to double down on socialism AmericanCanuck Nov 2020 #49
It's a message that "socialism" is just a nonsense tag Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #50
Except it works qazplm135 Nov 2020 #60
Yes, let's let the Republicans drive our message and approach Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #68
Yes qazplm135 Nov 2020 #69
It affected Cubans in Miami Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #70
It affected a lot more than them qazplm135 Nov 2020 #72
It absolutely needs to be addressed, but not by punching left. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #75
Every criticism or AOC is not "punching left" qazplm135 Nov 2020 #79
Amen to everything you just said, qazplm135. nt mtnsnake Nov 2020 #81
Of course she's not perfect, but blaming her for people misunderstanding socialism is punching left. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #82
Jesus no one is "blaming her for people misunderstanding socialism" qazplm135 Nov 2020 #85
I don't either. If it's aimed at Republicans, why not say so? betsuni Nov 2020 #52
We lost FL for the same reasons we always do, radius777 Nov 2020 #59
A star? qazplm135 Nov 2020 #61
The Republican/Corporate attack on 'Socialism' can be defeated and bypassed immediately... WyattKansas Nov 2020 #16
That linkage sounds like a good idea. Just snap back with that when the word comes up. JudyM Nov 2020 #17
That is a GREAT strategy...unless you're in the habit of calling yourself a Socialist... brooklynite Nov 2020 #23
If you noticed President-Elect Biden's speech when he finally declared victory, he mentioned FDR... WyattKansas Nov 2020 #31
The problem is that FDR policies Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #44
Well by all means, do explain how many Asians and African Americans will be alienated by... WyattKansas Nov 2020 #74
FDR turned a blind eye to segregation Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #78
Again you will find groups still angry about what the past did not fully do but the movement began. WyattKansas Nov 2020 #83
Not saying any one is still angry Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #84
You mean the policies that caused the expansion of the Commerce Clause Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #77
Read my above post Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #80
Who is the Democratic party calls themselves a Socialist? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #76
The Legacy of McCarthyism JGladstone Nov 2020 #19
AOC is one smart young lady! Brother Mythos Nov 2020 #29
Love it! If only it were true. Maybe we need to clap really hard when saying it. Nanjeanne Nov 2020 #34
Then if you say socialism three more times, a Congress person gets a PufPuf23 Nov 2020 #37
a shrug AmericanCanuck Nov 2020 #48
Must be great to be so scared of how people trapped in the 80$ view us . . . HughBeaumont Nov 2020 #53
Is This about Nina Turner ? JI7 Nov 2020 #57
Good one. betsuni Nov 2020 #58
Hey @AOC I'm a big fan of yours. True story. What's the difference between Democratic Socialism and Celerity Nov 2020 #65
Problem Solving 101. nt oasis Nov 2020 #73

brush

(53,743 posts)
2. Funny. But in the real world repug attack ads say socialism...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:04 PM
Nov 2020

three times then show photos of AOC, a self-avowed democratic socialist.

She can joke about it but she needs to be distancing herself from it as it hurts the party far from her deep blue district.

brush

(53,743 posts)
8. Whatever your post means, repugs don't do nuance.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:16 PM
Nov 2020

Hell, most of them can't tell socialism from fascism. All they know is what they're told—"socialism is bad" and AOC has declared herself a democratic socialist, which actually is double bad because it's two words they hate. Democratic and socialist.

She made a mistake calling herself that. How she fixes that, I don't know. But with that label she can't get elected anywhere but a deep, deep blue district.

Too bad she followed Sanders in calling herself that as she has tremendous potential.

ahoysrcsm

(787 posts)
64. And yet both are a part of the Socialist Party.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:41 AM
Nov 2020

I back the Democratic Party, I am not a 'Democratic Socialist' nor a 'Social Democrat' (sic)

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
5. This Trump supporter defines socialism
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:09 PM
Nov 2020



She doesn't mention AOC or Bernie Sanders and apparently what she thinks is different from their agenda. Notice how she says "fake news" when inconvenient facts are mentioned to her.

Whatever people still blame AOC. Spanburger did a great job of dividing the party.

brush

(53,743 posts)
10. I saw that a couple of days ago. It's so pathetic.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:20 PM
Nov 2020

Most repugs don't know socialism from fascism. They're low info voters and dumb as hell.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
55. +1. The 'socialism' thing is fear of 'black people getting free stuff'
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 12:50 AM
Nov 2020

and the GOP has used it for a generation as a dogwhistle.

This woman is a wannabe who would not be considered white by most RW whites who would deport her in a second if they could.

Whether AOC used the word 'socialist' or not - it doesn't matter. Even Bill Clinton and Obama were called socialists.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
9. Funny. But in the real world repug attack ads say socialism...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:20 PM
Nov 2020

Yeah, I have friends who live down in Shellman/Blakely Georgia, and the ramp up of the "Socialiasm" boogeyman is ALREADY rearing it's head already. In fact, the friend living in Blakely got something in her mail about "The Socialist Democrat party...," and I told her to stop right there, I get it.

AOC really needs to shut up now about that socialism joke thing, especially since that socialism boogeyman still has power away from HER deep blue district. James Clyburn said that using the term defund the police isn't a good term to use either, yet I still see some Dems using that term. Dems and their messaging is HORRIBLE and likely not to change, and the corporate media is happy to repeat what Dems say IE: Defund the police & the Democratic party & Socialism 😣

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
13. I don't look to Clyburn on what to say
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:24 PM
Nov 2020

I don't just say I support BLM, I also support their policies.

I favor it and I live in blue district, elected Mark Kelly & Joe Biden. I don't care if the Southeast doesn't support it. It is a local issue anyway. LA recently voted to "defund" and it passed.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
20. "I don't look to Clyburn on what to say."
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:39 PM
Nov 2020

Neither do I, because like you I live in a DEEP blue area (Los Angeles County).

But what Clyburn was saying, and I agree, is that talk like that isn't helpful where HE is although Georgia is changing slowly/AA's got out the vote (Thanks to Stacey's herculean efforts in registering 800,000 more voters) to turn Georgia blue, because as I mentioned a friend in Shellman Georgia's already getting the socialism/Dems mailings in head of that run-off in January 2021.

Captain Zero

(6,785 posts)
30. My mother told me she voted for Biden but almost didn't. why? "Defund the Police"
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 04:57 PM
Nov 2020

Being her reason. So if she almost did, how many others actually did vote for Trump for that reason?

And it is an EMOTIONAL issue for her since she has grandsons who are LEOs.
Lots of people are related to and friends of police officers they know.

I thought it was a dumb phrase the first time I heard it and knew it would lose votes. The thing is once it got going Trump and the Republicans repeated it ABOUT the Democrats hundreds of times more than any Democrat ever said it.

We really can't hand them bone-headed stuff to repeat because they will repeat it through a bullhorn over and over.

maxsolomon

(33,252 posts)
35. did she actually think Biden would remove all police funding and there would be no police?
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 07:24 PM
Nov 2020

i'm curious, as i live in a deep blue bubble.

Bettie

(16,076 posts)
11. They also say socialism
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:23 PM
Nov 2020

and show pictures of Nancy Pelosi. Saw it this cycle.

And Joe Biden.

And literally every Democrat out there.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
22. Or you point out how friggin' ridiculous they are.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:47 PM
Nov 2020

We get so scared they’ll be mean to us we take every attack they make to heart and bend over backwards to fit their framing. It’s a fools errand.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
26. Here's what gets me...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 04:17 PM
Nov 2020

It only seems to be more conservative or “moderate” Dems from Red or Purple areas that we need to be patient with and let represent their districts. Her District loves her. A large chunk of the country love her. And yet she and the squad are constantly being told they need to watch their tone.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
32. She needs to tamper down on the socialism jokes et al ...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 06:04 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

At least until THIS next Senatorial run-off in Georgia on Jan. 5th, is over, because if we don't get thost two Senate seats, Biden won't have an agenda, and many in the corporate media won't be as 'understanding' if he can't get anything done because of Republicans. Many in the corporate media were mostly tepid to call tRump a liar, and just look at that THUG tRump, whose currently destroying everything on his way out, making it more difficult for Biden to hit the ground running in curbing Covid-19. You gotta be a rotten fucker, soulless, to sit back golfing/tweeting/and eating to watch 251K and more DIE when you could have done something about Covid-19. At least let us try to get those two seats, with Kamala being the tie-break vote we will have so Joe/Kamala can get MANY things done instead of going into the hell hole of having MoscowMitch being Sen. Majority leader again, and he already said laughingly that he'll block EVERY one of Biden's cabinet appointments, and if he gets a shot at appointing a justice on the the high court, that scotus BETTER be centrist or center right. As I mentioned in a post in this thread, my friend who lives in Shellman Ga. got a mailer already talking about "The Democrat Socialist party."

Autumn

(44,984 posts)
38. She needs to keep doing exactly what she doing.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 07:37 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Anybody whining about "The Democrat Socialist party" like your friend in GA is is not going to change. MoscowMitch is not going to change and nothing AOC says is changing that. But she does have a young following that will appeal to voters elsewhere and she can change some of those young people into Dem voters.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
39. "Anybody whining about "The Democrat Socialist party" like your friend in GA..."
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 09:53 PM
Nov 2020

is not going to change."

I'm filling in blanks for you here ...

My friend is a long-time, AA Dem voter of 92, mostly living alone, whose long deceased aunt/daughter were injured during their walk trying to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1965, plus she's been living in Georgia all of her life as had her great-grandparents on BOTH sides who were slaves/turned share croppers, and yes she's alarmed about "All of these bogus 'socialism' mailers in her mailbox" she's told me she's received this whole voting season, not just during this anticipated run-off in Jan. She knows what's at stake with this run-off election for those 2 senate seats. She knows that "Those Republicans won't do a damn thing for anybody if they get the Senate." She remembers being a teen when Hitler was leader of Germany during the 1940's, she knew what a fascist was at 17 (The Jewish people she worked for baby-sitting their children explained to her what one was), and she see's told me many times how tRump and these Republicans act almost like Hitler and his people. She's lived in Ga. during a time when you couldn't drink from elegant white's only water fountains. Called Ni%%er, Ni&&er, Ni$$er by a child taunting her as a 21 year old grown woman, so that they could have the WHOLE sidewalk knowing that she couldn't say anything back to that child or check her racist mom who was looking at her in the face and laughing. My Friend is still very sharp mentally for her age and still lives mostly alone in Shellman, Ga. most of her life whose late aunt and her daughter were injured during what should have been their Bloody Sunday walk across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1965.

AOC has the right to say what she wants, but I'm sure she's never weathered what my friend has. White's only water fountain and Jim Crow in a segregated Georgia. My friend has EVERY right @ 92 to say what she wants to. She sees how African-Americans votes are being taken away from them again in what should be an enlightened 21st century. She's elderly but she knows what's going on with tRump and the voter disenfranchisement aka new Jim Crow that they're trying to re-start again. She should, she lived through it, and she's lived long enough in her state of Georgia to have more say so there than what she calls a "Somebody who needs hush right now." I agree with her. AOC can do all the making fun of socialism AFTER Dems secure those 2 Senate seats. She's up in a safe NY. My friend is down in Georgia, and NO she's not whining, she can say what the hell she wants to, because she's seen and lived it ALL down South.

Finally, my friend was livid when she saw John Lewis heckled loudly by what she called "Damn fools in the our party," on the night Hillary Clinton was nominated for President.

Autumn

(44,984 posts)
40. We all have every right to say what we want . Including AOC. She has always talked about
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 09:56 PM
Nov 2020

socialism, and she's been elected TWICE on that.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
41. We all have every right to say what we want . Including AOC.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 09:58 PM
Nov 2020

I agree, especially when you live in a SAFE deep, blue district in NY, you can do what you please.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
47. She's been elected TWICE talking about socialism. So yes, she can do whatever she pleases.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:33 PM
Nov 2020

Of course she's won twice, because she's in a DEEP blue state/district in NY.

I think she's smart enough to KNOW that giving thuglicans a chance to put her picture and Pelosi's picture on mailers where they look 'crazy' and calling them "Democrat Socialists" won't work down in a place like Shellman, Ga. You didn't see Stacey Abrams taking that tact as she helped pull Georgia across the line and into the Dem column, and helping to give Biden the presidency.

Autumn

(44,984 posts)
54. That's right NY is a lot bluer than GA who has voted Dem ONCE since 1996.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 11:41 PM
Nov 2020

I personally would not have bet the farm on it going blue this time had another Republican other than Trump been on the ticket and had it not been for Abrams. I also think Jen Jordan was a big factor.

Demsrule86

(68,471 posts)
43. No it is scary because it costs us elections and could cost us the Georgia seats.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:03 PM
Nov 2020

Socialism is not supported in this country...and the fear of it is one of the reasons we lost Florida...IMHO. One can say what one wants...the question is always should one say it?

radius777

(3,635 posts)
56. Exactly, we can't be afraid of our own shadow. AOC is correct
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:01 AM
Nov 2020

as she helps to push the overton window on this issue. There's nothing wrong with democratic socialism - many of the institutions of society like Social Security and Medicare fit that description. America is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism, as are most advanced countries.

Voters look to see who appears strong and confident on their positions, ie who control the frame, and we often do a poor job at this - that's why we lose.

Bettie

(16,076 posts)
67. And that's the thing our side reactively frames the entire debate
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:34 AM
Nov 2020

based on what they say. There is NEVER any time for our message because we're so freaking busy trying to fit it into their framing.

Biophilic

(3,632 posts)
4. Really, really starting to appreciate her
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:08 PM
Nov 2020

I always liked her, but didn't really follow too much. More and more I'm finding her worth not just hearing, but actually looking for things she's said or written. For the last 4 years I've mostly just tried to keep my head down and not get so anxious or depressed that I had trouble functioning. Now, this summer and this fall I'm actually feeling like things might shift around and it's not just because of the election. It's because of the woman like Kamala, AOC, Stacey, and Gretchen and her crew. The woman are tough and willing to stand up for themselves and their constituents.

The more I hear from them, the better I feel. They just don't bullshit around.

Response to Biophilic (Reply #4)

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
25. Ads also called him a far, far left radical
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:51 PM
Nov 2020

who’d bankrupt and shut down all the hospitals in SC by imposing M4A. Ridiculous but It worked.


People down here don’t give a flying fuck if he was a lobbyist. That kind of messaging only works in D +30 districts.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
46. "People down here don't give a flying fuck if he was a lobbyist. That kind of messaging..
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:23 PM
Nov 2020

That kind of messaging only works in D +30 districts."

SO true. It doesn't work in a small place like Shellman Georgia where you have thuglicans representing it, and where you have 2 law-breaking, racist, low-life, insider-trading pieces of scum representing it, as Shellman still went RED.

But AOC I guess really doesn't CARE about the folks in Shellman, Ga., and the fact that they're still represented by racist, right-winged pigs in Ga.

Thank God for Stacey Abrams who really helped Biden win Georgia and where she registered 800K across that state that bought Ga. into the Blue column and into Biden's win column. Stacey Abrams was on with Ali Ali Velshi, and I don't hear Stacey talking about socialism, she strains to avoid that. No, she's talking about how winning those two senate seats in Ga., are extremely important, and about how MoscowMitch/Perdue/Loeffler stand in their way of receiving unemployment benefits. Perdue/Loeffler/MoscowMitch don't give a shit about Covid-19 or about how many die across this country or about how their losing their homes, running through their little savings etc.

Stacey KNOWS all things Georgia, and you won't hear her making fun of being called a socialist, especially not down in newly blue Georgia.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
51. Scary, but you're right ...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:46 PM
Nov 2020

Calling Jamie a socialist worked in South Carolina (I have relatives in Bishopville). We know WHAT SC still is unfortunately.

And even more scary is that all of the hospitals in South Carolina ARE already closed, and downtown Bishopville looks like a ghost town, and Jamie repeatedly spoke about that and about other counties in SC, but the socialism tag on Jamie worked like a gem. Graham doesn't give a shit about the state he 'represents,' nor does he care about folks dying from Covid-19 because that clown is onboard with tRump, with his lips firmly kissing the murderous ass of his buddy tRump, and since he's gone to interfering into elections in states other than SC. He's a fascist living in SC who only cares about himself, tRump and about making the lives of Dems and those who need help, even republicans who voted for him, more miserable.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
63. Yep. Jaime ran some really smart, good ads
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:27 AM
Nov 2020

but the right wing messaging flooded everything. It’s hard in red states.

LenaBaby61

(6,973 posts)
71. Yep. Jaime ran some really smart, good ads
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 12:35 PM
Nov 2020

You know they had to be good, because I saw many of them here in DEEP blue Los Angeles County.

He came across as someone who pulled himself up by HIS bootstraps, although many whites think that they only can do that. He seemed very heartfelt, sincere whenever I saw him interviewed, and he has a beautiful family (his wife and children are adorable). Jamie's someone who KNOWS the needs of the people in SC.

Unlike that horses ass Graham who was on Faux and on various television events begging, crying, almost sobbing, turning red pleading for $5.00, because my opponent has all of this liberal money coming in from outside of South Carolina. He came off just like one of those disgraced evangelists who come on television begging, crying, almost sobbing, turning red pleading for monies before midnight. And him coming into the hallway turning very red again when questioned by a reporter on WHY he felt the need to contact the conservative sos in Ga. (WHO was extremely offended) about the way he conducts all things ballot/signatures in that guys state, especially in the places where there are predominantly African-American voters.

Graham is a cancer--One sick ass fool.

Demsrule86

(68,471 posts)
42. Are there enough of her type to keep the house? I think not...so adorable really. I am so not
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:01 PM
Nov 2020

amused.The word socialism should not be used by any Democrat.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
7. I don't know the point of that tweet
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:15 PM
Nov 2020

it's to mock obviously, but it ignores the real danger the fear of socialism is. It cost Biden Florida. It probably cost us a Senate seat or two.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
18. WWND?
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:36 PM
Nov 2020
I don't know the point of that tweet
I'm also trying to figure out how this helps, or what good purpose it serves.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
33. But you prove that it doesn't matter the reality. Repubs use it as a boogie man.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 07:14 PM
Nov 2020

Biden is far from being a socialist, but it "cost" him Florida when it isn't even a real thing. Stop blaming this on AOC.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
36. Who is blaming AOC?
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 07:28 PM
Nov 2020

I'm trying to understand the purpose of her tweet which appears to mock fears of socialism.

Which as you say, cost Biden Florida. So perhaps mocking isn't the way to go?

 

AmericanCanuck

(1,102 posts)
49. It is a message to double down on socialism
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:39 PM
Nov 2020

and saying it is more important than winning elections with a winning message.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
50. It's a message that "socialism" is just a nonsense tag
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 10:44 PM
Nov 2020

that is trotted out for people to make money and win elections and that needs to stop.

But, hey, keep punching left. That should work really well for us.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
69. Yes
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 11:57 AM
Nov 2020

Let's ignore messaging that's affecting a third of Latinos in critical states and driving Whites as well.

Because it's "Republican messaging."

Don't try and counter it or address it, just mock it.

Brilliant!

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
70. It affected Cubans in Miami
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 12:05 PM
Nov 2020

I remember four years ago when people indicated that they didn't want to vote for Clinton because they wanted someone more progressive and overwhelmingly the response was that those people were stupid and needed to just vote for Clinton. NOW, when people are saying that our messaging needs to be more conservative because Cubans don't like the word "socialism" because they don't understand it and won't vote for a clearly not-socialist, instead of being their fault, we need to change our messaging and positions just to make them happy. It's almost like you just want the party to move right and are going to switch where the blame lies (ignorant voters vs progressives) depending on which one causes a shift right.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
72. It affected a lot more than them
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:19 PM
Nov 2020

But like AOC keep your head in the sand that it's just something small to be mocked, not something to be countered.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
75. It absolutely needs to be addressed, but not by punching left.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:34 PM
Nov 2020

People need to be educated on what socialism is, how we have elements of it here already, and how those things being presented by the Dem platform are not the evils of Castro and the USSR.

What we do not need to do is jump on the "sOciALism iZ tHe bADzz" train. Let's actually be the party of liberalism and let people know that those things they like (based on lots of polling) are what the Republicans want to scare them with then they talk of socialism in the US.

Or, hey, go after AOC. That seems to be the option you want to take.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
79. Every criticism or AOC is not "punching left"
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:50 PM
Nov 2020

She's not perfect. She is as prone to being criticized as anyone else.

And when she mocks this she is not "addressing it."

She's pretending it's some small thing that only stupid people believe and glossing over it.

And we DO need to understand that a large number of people in fact DO believe that "socialism is the bad" and figure out a way to promote progressive policies and explain why they aren't "socialism." We need to explain that we in fact do like capitalism, just managed to curb it's excesses.

Talking up socialism is a losing path. Defending it is a losing path. Mocking the fear of it, as AOC has, is a losing path.

But hey, let's not worry about winning elections, let's just pretend AOC never says or does anything that isn't perfect, and protect her at all costs.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
82. Of course she's not perfect, but blaming her for people misunderstanding socialism is punching left.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:12 PM
Nov 2020

She's mocking those that use it as the boogie man. You know, the thing we both seem to agree exists. And the fact that she brings in corporate lobbyists means she isn't glossing over it and/or saying it's some "small thing." In case you haven't paid attention, she has a huge problem with lobbyists.

If people believe it's bad, we both seem to agree that the solution is to educate. The solution isn't to tell AOC to stop fighting the fight she wants to fight.

"Taking up socialism is a losing path." Who's doing that? She is 1. taking up progressive policies that Dems believe in; and 2. trying to fight those that don't want people educated and use it as a tool.

Nobody wants to "protect her at all costs" but this is a Dem site and we aren't supposed to be going after them. Hell, Manchin gets love here because he is a Dem. Afford AOC (who, by the way, is WAY more liberal and progressive than Manchin) the same. And before we slide into "Manchin is doing what he needs to do to get elected," so is AOC. And, frankly, she supports Trump a whole hell of a lot less than Manchin.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
85. Jesus no one is "blaming her for people misunderstanding socialism"
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:43 PM
Nov 2020

Mocking is a pointless and useless exercise. It's impotent. It doesn't recognize the problem.

THAT'S what people are criticizing her for. A snarky tweet that doesn't recognize or address the problem.

She isn't "taking the fight" with that tweet.

This is all a reflexive oh we have to protect AOC! I don't have any need to protect her or Manchin when they do or say something stupid or unhelpful. Or anyone else. Manchin has his own problems. Raising him is simply more of a "must protect AOC" move.

betsuni

(25,380 posts)
52. I don't either. If it's aimed at Republicans, why not say so?
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 11:20 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:32 AM - Edit history (1)

By not doing so, it means both sides. Which Democrats are corrupted by lobbyists? And if it's referring to voters who didn't vote for Democrats because they're afraid of socialism and believed that Republican messaging, I thought we weren't supposed to make fun of people who vote against their own self-interest.

Democrats keep being told that they're bad at messaging and to do better. I don't understand the messaging here at all.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
59. We lost FL for the same reasons we always do,
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:51 AM
Nov 2020

poor outreach and messaging in the state. DU'ers who live in FL even said this, that they saw all types of GOP GOTV and anti-Dem propaganda but nothing much from our side to counter it.

The Cubans shifted more strongly over to Trump due to his harsh sanctions against Cuba more than anything else. They are also very right wing and many are sympathetic to his racism/nativism against darker skinned people, as well as his strongman persona.

We were doing poorly in many downballot races during the Obama era way before AOC came onto the scene. Obama was called a socialist, any left leaning politician (whether center-left or left) will be called socialist. That's why AOC is the solution to this, as she is a star and appealing to many young people and others, and is not afraid to fight back. We can't be afraid of our own shadows. We need to push the overton window and properly explain to people that all first world nations are a hybrid of socialism and capitalism. Otherwise we will continue to be boxed in and unable to get anything done, lest it be called 'socalist'.

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
16. The Republican/Corporate attack on 'Socialism' can be defeated and bypassed immediately...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:29 PM
Nov 2020

Instead of using the Republican given word, socialism, simply short circuit it immediately and leave all Republicans very confused and silent by... Using the term FDR Policies instead. It will rally the country around it with even Republicans supporting it.

Republican politicians have been trying to hijack the likeness of FDR and what his policies did for the country, because they know their Republican voters LOVE FDR and what he gave this country. But Republicans can never do what FDR did, because they are for the very opposite of FDR Policies. So the Republican politicians had to invent attack words, like socialism, communist, leftist, antifa, to hurt the Democratic Party and shift the country right to undermine the FDR Policies that made the country so great to begin with. Republican politicians are under the illusion they can repeat what FDR did with their Ayn Rand values.

JudyM

(29,204 posts)
17. That linkage sounds like a good idea. Just snap back with that when the word comes up.
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:35 PM
Nov 2020

What would they prefer over socialism? Their fascism?

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
31. If you noticed President-Elect Biden's speech when he finally declared victory, he mentioned FDR...
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 05:22 PM
Nov 2020

At times to remind Americans what we need to return to going forward with science, education, equality, and achieving the impossible. Those FDR Policies were the very same liberal and progressive policies that the socialism movement pushes for today. But by framing them as FDR Policies instead of socialism, liberal, or progressive it prevents the Republican Party from mounting attacks and name-calling of the Democratic Party and it's politicians. Because even most Republican voters love FDR and want to bring back what he began with the country, before we got derailed with the now many decades of repeated failures the Conservative/Republican shift moved us to.

Republicans simply do NOT have any counter attack to FDR Policies unless they want to call themselves Anti-American or attack FDR himself.

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
74. Well by all means, do explain how many Asians and African Americans will be alienated by...
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:32 PM
Nov 2020

FDR Policies. And do tell us why you think it will turn Asians and African Americans against the Democratic Party. Besides, you could say that about any political figure past and present with different segments of the population... Including different Asian groups and African American groups. Your post only made me think of tRUMP's response to Biden in one of the debates when he loudly exclaimed to Biden, 'You just lost the African American vote!'

What you completely ignored is that FDR Policies put actual laws into place and a real foundation to help ALL equally with laws and they actually protected the American People, instead of chic projects that turn larger swaths of the population against it and the Democratic Party. You know with science, facts, reality, and safety measures instead of the Wall Street mythical illusion that Republicans resurrected and the Democratic Party played along with. Once the Democratic Party gets off it's targeting of certain groups instead of building a movement with the mass population, then it will change the direction of the country for the better. And again, do explain what Americans do not view FDR Policies favorably, including Republican voters and Republican politicians... Perhaps someone who doesn't want socialist and progressive policies and favors the Wall Street mythical illusion?

By the way, the country and Democratic Party would have been a hell of a lot better off keeping Henry Wallace on his ticket, rather than being forced to change to the Wall Street's guy, Harry Truman.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
78. FDR turned a blind eye to segregation
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:49 PM
Nov 2020

He refused to integrate the military and many African Americans were not allowed the benefits of new deal programs especially in the south. FDR also illegally imprisoned Japanese Americans during WWII.

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
83. Again you will find groups still angry about what the past did not fully do but the movement began.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:20 PM
Nov 2020

Did the Chinese and other Asian countries like FDR??? How did the Japanese feel about Harry Truman dropping atomic bombs on Japan? Your analogy seems to be a lot a cherry blossom picking to dismiss FDR from history. Why is that and why don't you agree with President-Elect Biden's view of FDR Policies?

As for African Americans in the south with new deal programs... Sounds a lot like how Obamacare did not go far enough at all and left some out. But I am sure that you will explain what actually prevented New Deal programs in the South and how many African Americans cherish their New Deal benefits today? Do also go on to tell how many African American leaders from the Civil Rights movement spoke about pushing too far too fast in fear of a blow back from the population. I'm sure the Tuskegee Airmen only happened under Truman at the end of WW II, which began pushing for the change. And please do explain how it was all on FDR to right every wrong before and after him, even though he set in place LAWS and a FOUNDATION that would pay off for all in the end for all.

Maybe you are against FDR, because you really do not like socialism and progressive ideals FDR set into the law.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
84. Not saying any one is still angry
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:30 PM
Nov 2020

They just don’t revere FDR the way white liberals do. And since he didn’t lift a finger to repeal the Chinese exclusion acts until 1943, many Asian Americans feel the same. And let’s not forget that many Jewish Americans think that FDR didn’t do enough to save European Jews from the Holocaust.

BTW The Tuskegee Airmen were a segregated unit so they don’t really help your argument.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
77. You mean the policies that caused the expansion of the Commerce Clause
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:37 PM
Nov 2020

which made most of the civil rights SCOTUS cases in the 60s possible? THOSE policies. That doesn't make sense.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,907 posts)
76. Who is the Democratic party calls themselves a Socialist?
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 01:35 PM
Nov 2020

Like Socialist and then hard stop? Democratic Socialism is not the same thing by a long shot.

 

JGladstone

(42 posts)
19. The Legacy of McCarthyism
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 03:37 PM
Nov 2020
https://web.viu.ca/davies/H323Vietnam/legacy.htm

--Ellen Schrecker

(Snips)

"Quantification aside, it may be helpful to look at the specific sectors of American society that McCarthyism touched. Such an appraisal, tentative though it must be, may offer some insight into the extent of the damage and into the ways in which the anti-Communist crusade influenced American society, politics, and culture. We should keep in mind, however, that McCarthyism's main impact may well have been in what did not happen rather than in what didthe social reforms that were never adopted, the diplomatic initiatives that were not pursued, the workers who were not organized into unions, the books that were not written, and the movies that were never filmed.

The most obvious casualty was the American left. The institutional toll is clear. The Communist party, already damaged by internal problems, dwindled into insignificance and all the organizations associated with it disappeared. The destruction of the front groups and the left-led unions may well have had a more deleterious impact on American politics than the decline of the party itself. With their demise, the nation lost the institutional network that had created a public space where serious alternatives to the status quo could be presented. Moreover, with the disappearance of a vigorous movement on their left, moderate reform groups were more exposed to right-wing attacks and thus rendered less effective.

In the realm of social policy, for example, McCarthyism may have aborted much-needed reforms. As the nation's politics swung to the right after World War II, the federal government abandoned the unfinished agenda of the New Deal. Measures like national health insurance, a social reform embraced by the rest of the industrialized world, simply fell by the wayside. The left liberal political coalition that might have supported health reforms and similar projects was torn apart by the anti-Communist crusade. Moderates feared being identified with anything that seemed too radical, and people to the left of them were either unheard or under attack. McCarthyism further contributed to the attenuation of the reform impulse by helping to divert the attention of the labor movement, the strongest institution within the old New Deal coalition, from external organizing to internal politicking."

"The nation's cultural and intellectual life suffered as well. While there were other reasons that TV offered a bland menu of quiz shows and westerns during the late 1950s, McCarthy-era anxieties clearly played a role. Similarly, the blacklist contributed to the reluctance of the film industry to grapple with controversial social or political issues. In the intellectual world, cold war liberals also avoided controversy. They celebrated the "end of ideology," claiming that the United States' uniquely pragmatic approach to politics made the problems that had once concerned left- wing ideologists irrelevant. Consensus historians pushed that formulation into the past and described a nation that had supposedly never experienced serious internal conflict. It took the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War to end this complacency and bring reality back in."

PufPuf23

(8,755 posts)
37. Then if you say socialism three more times, a Congress person gets a
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 07:35 PM
Nov 2020

jet assist up their ass the better to improve their ability to grift.

Hope AOC matures to Speaker of the House.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
53. Must be great to be so scared of how people trapped in the 80$ view us . . .
Wed Nov 18, 2020, 11:30 PM
Nov 2020

. . . while there's no limit to how far right you can go in this country. Not one single solitary limit whatsofuckingever.

And "Life's not fair" isn't an argument, it's a cop out. Double standards are doubly ridiculous.

Celerity

(43,130 posts)
65. Hey @AOC I'm a big fan of yours. True story. What's the difference between Democratic Socialism and
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:19 AM
Nov 2020
and Nordic Capitalism, in your mind? Serious question. It feels like your branding of it as Socialism is hurting us on the dialogue. But not sure?





Latest Discussions»General Discussion»AOC: If you say "socialis...