I wholeheartedly agree with this tweet.

[Arkansas Granny]

Link to tweet

?s=20


Jason Overstreet
@JasonOverstreet
I don’t care what you say. I don’t care what the constitutional law experts say. There’s a massive flaw in the constitution when someone this fuckin crazy gets to act this fuckin crazy for this fuckin long. 25th amendment, my ass. We should never be held hostage like this. Ever!
10:49 AM · Nov 18, 2020

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

1. If the Republican Senate would have cared to do its job earlier this year....

[Arkansas Granny]

9. Exactly. So much pain and suffering could have been averted. They let this happen.

[enid602]

31. Eons

Gawd, was that just this year. Seems like an eternity ago.

[intheflow]

48. They didn't let it happen.

They made it happen. Doing nothing is still an action.

[OldBaldy1701E]

66. Yes, they did

And we need to never forget it. EVER. Every single time a rethug walks by, every one else should be chanting 'murderer', 'adulterer', and 'psycho' until they leave. This is a form of 'frown power', a practice invented by Stetson Kennedy. Go check him out if you do not know about this history changing man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stetson_Kennedy

Now, granted this suggestion is a bit harsh, but the time for harsh as applies to those animals has come. We should be pushing to remove the rethugs as a viable party for good.

[malaise]

2. Get thee to the greatest page

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

While I agree the 25thamendment appears to be all we've got to stop this

[soldierant]

45. The biggest problem of the 25th is that it drops the issue into the lap

of the VP and cabinet - in other words, his appointees. That's fine if the incapacity is physical like prolonged hospitalization of a coma. If it's a mental issue like sociopathy, who is going to take action against the sociopathy of the guy who appointed him or her out of that sociopathic state?

Face it, appointees (including the VP, who will have been the President's choice) will not in a sense even be real people, but cartoon characters.

Congress, or some bipartisan body, needs to be in charge of these decisions.

[malaise]

46. 100% correct

and that is a major weakness

[reACTIONary]

52. We had a bill introduced in the house...

... to create an independent committee that could invoke the 25th. The amendment specifies the default procedure but allows for that to be expanded or overridden by law.

[soldierant]

63. I certainly didn't think I was the first person to make the observation,

but I didn't know (and am glad to know) that the process had gotten so far.

[brush]

3. That is the absolute truth. The Constitution is not perfect.

Hard to do but we need to fix it so we don't get another, smarter trump.

[empedocles]

8. Constitution was not meant to be perfect and unchangeable, with changing times.

No matter what the 'originalists' judges, with their dubious designs, claim.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Those "originalists" would be happy to deny the vote to women and people of color, apparently.

They don't really think these things through, sometimes.

[sandensea]

16. And keep the SELECToral College forever

Lest "ignorant masses" actually elect a president (the idea!).

[brush]

17. Spot on. It should be easier to amend. The originalists are full of it.

[Hoyt]

4. +1. Normally Impeachment or threat (like Nixon) of Impeachment works.

So, what is the remedy?

[Arkansas Granny]

14. If Republicans had considered country over party last year, this could have been averted.

They chose to leave Trump in office when they could have gotten rid of him. At the very least, they could have tried to force his retirement a la Nixon.

[JudyM]

50. They didn't just leave him in office; they obstructed investigation and actively deceived the public

And for that, there is no recourse for either Dems or the citizenry.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

5. Exactly. trump is an abuser, & he's abusing everyone. HE. NEEDS. TO. GO. AWAY.

[soothsayer]

6. Totally agree

It’s maddening

[empedocles]

7. The problem is that a big Senate voting block is wildly unrepresetative of the larger population.

The result is somewhat similar to the British example of 'rotten boroughs', where an area retained 2 voting seats, despite a relatively unpopulated area.

"Rotten borough | British history | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/topic/rotten-borough

Rotten borough, depopulated election district that retains its original representation. The term was first applied by English parliamentary reformers of the early 19th century to such constituencies maintained by the crown or by an aristocratic patron to control seats in the House of Commons."

[calimary]

10. That should be how it's referred to. As a "HOSTAGE HOLD"!

That's how we should refer to it, and write about it, and speak about it when the subject comes up with others.

It's a fucking HOSTAGE CRISIS we're in, now. trump is trying to hold not just Biden, but ALL OF AMERICA hostage until he gets his way. Which will, of course, be NEVER. But he'll go ahead and push it anyway. FUCKING BASTARD!

[llashram]

11. this

[NoRoadUntravelled]

12. I could not agree more.

The 25th amendment looks good on parchment but if there's no one willing to enact it, it may as well be used to wrap fish guts.
A start would be to see that every nominee for the office of President and VP pass a thorough psych evaluation by a committee of respected mental health professionals who are sworn to this duty before final approval is given for the nomination.

In addition, every nominee for these offices must be required to pass the test that immigrants to the US must pass to become citizens. Enough of this BS of having the most powerful elected official of the free world be completely ignorant of how our Constitutional Republic is meant to work. The ignorance of this administration and its refusal to abide by the law has cost us dearly.

This is a good start. With all the Q-Garbage, brainwashing and foreign interference, we disregard the above at our own peril. Nearly half of American voters seem unable to recognize their cognitive deficits when it comes to the difference between truth and fantasy.

[mtnsnake]

15. Another huge flaw is that a state like Wyoming has the same number of senators as California

I'd like to know how that is fair.

[RicROC]

34. the US Senate is obsolete the way it is now.

Totally out of balance in representing citizens.

[Pepsidog]

18. Trump exposed all the cracks in the system.

[bucolic_frolic]

19. I thought intelligence agencies were supposed to go crazy at the "Russia if you're listening" stage

My bad.

[FM123]

20. Yep. We are like hostages.

And his base - they don't even realize it but they are like those kids left to die in a hot car by bad parent. They don't even realize what he's doing to them.

[OLDMDDEM]

21. Totally agree!!!

[ffr]

22. Karl Rove has built the perfect prison using our system against itself.

The Founding Fathers never envisioned such wretchedness could ever manifest itself within one political party that knows it is dying.

Desperation creates this bastardization of the political process. It ain't over either.

[XanaDUer2]

23. Trump follows no norms

the length of time was prob meant for a smooth transition

[wendyb-NC]

24. Definitely, we are being held hostage.

He and his minions must be removed.

[KS Toronado]

25. Is it time for a national vetting process for anyone running for national office?

Find people who want to help other people and not themselves.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

39. Yes!...nt

[stage left]

43. + a million

absolutely yes, and it should include a psychiatric evaluation.

[Jim__]

26. There is a story that Kurt Godel when studying for his citizenship found a flaw in the Constitution

... that would allow a dictator to become president.

From The Conversation - (from 2017):

...

As the story goes, Gödel was preparing for his US citizenship examination in 1947 when he claimed to have found a “loophole” in the constitution that allowed the US to elect a dictator. The actual loophole was never explained and has been the focus of much study and speculation ever since.

Gödel was accompanied to his citizenship examination by his good friends Albert Einstein (yes, the famous physicist) and economist Oskar Morgenstern (one of the founders of game theory).

They tried to discourage him from discussing dictators and loopholes, but Gödel couldn’t help himself and told the citizenship examiner about the discovery. Gödel did receive his US citizenship, thanks in part to Morgenstern’s and Einstein’s endorsement.

There is reason for scepticism about some of the details of this story but if there’s one thing we’ve learned from the recent US election, it’s this: never let the truth get in the way of a convenient fiction.

In any case, the Gödel story is at least plausible. He spent a great deal of time thinking about systems of rules (axiom systems in mathematics), and looking for their limits and what such systems can say about themselves.

...

[renate]

32. I've read that too, in the EXCELLENT book by Jim Holt, When Godel Walked With Einstein

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/science/when-g-del-almost-took-on-the-us-constitution

There's a New Yorker article that mentions this book and that story too, but I'm not a subscriber so I didn't read it.

But yeah, I do believe it's true.

[Butterflylady]

27. Isn't that the truth.

[Brother Mythos]

28. Add my name to "The Agree List."

[lame54]

29. Also flawed is the senate...

Where apparently the majority answers to nobody

[LymphocyteLover]

30. TOTALLY! And where the FUCK are any Republicans willing to speak out against this absolute insanity?

WTAF!!

[Hortensis]

33. ALL constitutional law experts know there are many flaws.

Overstreet's swinging wildly at people who not only aren't there but don't exist anywhere.

They all can point to many holes, flaws, weaknesses, dysfunctions, and explain each, and at least partial solutions, at length

But the huge, very dangerous flaw that can never be sufficiently guarded against isn't in the constitution, it's the people.

[calimary]

35. And that's EXACTLY how to frame it. "Held HOSTAGE"!

trump is now holding not just the incoming Biden administration but the ENTIRE FREAKIN’ COUNTRY hostage.

Time for people in that administration to start going rogue. Meeting with Biden’s people. Slipping them the documents and copies of documents they’re gonna need. An underground transition. To go around trump and get it done in spite of him.

[H2O Man]

36. Recommended.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

37. No fuc*ing lie, Granny...

With you all the way!

[Marthe48]

38. If feels like everyone is waiting for someone else to do something

I keep hoping someone is getting so much information that a huge criminal organization will be destroyed. The fantasy that keeps me sane.

[judesedit]

40. Amen

[marieo1]

41. I agree!!!

I've never understood, either..all just like him. Just like a herd of sheep what one does, they all do!!! I am a strong democrat but I have always respected the republican party and republicans. Not anymore, they do not have enough guts to stand up to a horrible tyrant!! Scary is what it is....if DJT wanted to burn people like Hitler did, they wouldn't do a thing about it!! Shameful!!

[oldsoftie]

42. Duh. There ARE flaws in the Constitution. But its a damn sight better than what we COULD have.

Thats why its hard to change it.

[WinstonSmith4740]

44. The Constitution isn't the problem

Today's sycophants in the Republican Party are the problem. If they could put a spine together between all of them I'd be surprised. They allowed themselves to be cowed by a bully. He even showed that if you stood up to him, he'd fold, just like all bullies. But like a bully's wingmen, those gutless wonders got to bask in the glow and drink in the power, so they let him do whatever he wanted.

Fuck all of them. We (Dems) better not let this group walk away unscathed. We let it go after Watergate "for the good of the country." We let Iran/Contra go because Reagan was the Republican god at the time, and we didn't have the stomach for it. We let W's administration get away with war crimes and all the other shit for "the good of the country" and to "move forward". It gets worse and worse after each walkaway they're allowed. This group needs to go to jail, lose everything, or both. Preferably both.

[Cha]

47. Rt! TY!!

[Beartracks]

49. American democratic processes and norms are an honor system.

But now, thanks to such dishonorable Republicans gaming the system and weaponizing everything, we're going to have to actually codify that honor system and write down rules that shouldn't have to be written down, because we can no longer presume anymore that elected officials are going to bother acting in good faith.

==========

[BobTheSubgenius]

51. He has a very, very sharpened point.

But it's impossible to lay this solely at the feet of the Framers and Amenders (you know what I mean). The current office-holders are petrified of disagreeing with him. What do you think the chances of the 25th being invoked?

0 in trillions?

[warmfeet]

53. 330 million recs.

[BarbD]

54. We are held hostage by the people who DID'NT vote.

There are still too many people who simply do not understand basic civics. They think by ignoring the electoral process, they are sending a message that it is corrupt.

All of my adult life -- I'm fast approaching 83 -- I've been trying to convince people to vote not just for President but in all local elections. It's a tough sell.

As someone once said: "Democracy is not a spectator sport."

[DallasNE]

55. Citizens United

And the massive dark money made available there. A corrupt Supreme Court decision if ever there was one. And it takes corrupt Justices in order to have a corrupt ruling.

[TexasBushwhacker]

56. And the Senate Majority Leader should not be allowed

to let HUNDREDS of House approved bills pile up on his desk. There are plenty of those bills that have bipartisan support.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

57. This should be a daily headline on every news outlet.

[Tommymac]

58. The founders meant for the Constitution to grow and change

They expected multiple Constitutional Conventions to be called over the years.

Unfortunately Power entrenches itself and today BOTH Parties do not want to see any basic changes that would threaten that power structure.

I believe that a Modern Parliamentary Legislative system is more timely having been 1st implemented in the 1800's as a result of some of the problems with Our 2 Party system.

Regardless, The Constitution is a living document that itself provides the provisions to change it as needed.

Problem is short sighted Pols don't want to change it as they only see as far as their terms. That is a reality We The People have to address through voting and ballot initiatives, but we too are extremely short sighted and frankly self-centered, as human's tend to be.

The Human Race sucks at long term planning. No one of our strong points.

And the evil people with brains take advantage of this tendency. As a Society a lot of us have never been taught REAL Secular Morality because of the destruction of our Educational system and values - and depend on flawed bigoted faith based religious doctrine instead. Which History has shown is a really bad thing.

[burrowowl]

59. The Constitution needs a serious rewrite

and something more parliamentary where many parties have representation and not just 2 parties and it requires more discussion and consensus.
And maybe the USA could ratify the Human Rights Treaty which was mainly authored by Elenor Roosevelt.

[Blue Owl]

60. No. Fucking. Shit!

[dustyscamp]

61. If there isn't any justice expect no peace.

If the Trump administration gets away without any repercussions, expect to see heavy Democrat losses in future elections.

[Rhiannon12866]

62. Twitter reply :

Link to tweet

[Progressive dog]

64. There are ways to change the Constitution,

in fact the Constitution has been amended many times. Our system of government has now lasted for over 230 years, the oldest and most respected representative democracy in the world, at least until Trump.

[malthaussen]

65. The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars...

... but in ourselves. Look, let's be reasonable. There is no way to assure perfect safety, perfect functioning. All that can be done is to construct the best apparatus possible, and watch over it with care. The much-lauded system of "checks and balances" that children still learn about in school breaks down when one of those checks -- the US Senate -- becomes the puppet of a tyrant.

If you're gonna whine that the Constitution is "flawed" (which comes as no surprise to anyone who has given it the once over), then you need to suggest how it might be improved. You need to demonstrate how your "fix" will not give rise to more problems down the road. Yeah, the Trump administration represents a worse-case nightmare scenario for those who constructed the Constitution. They would have scoffed at the possibility of the Legislature and Administration, two natural rivals, conspiring to undermine the very government they were supposed to be serving. But if you have a 99% possibility of success, and that 01% turns up, that does not invalidate the virtue of the 99%. And so long as we are a government of people, 100% security may not be achieved.

73 million voters have voted for four more years of the same. That is more votes than any Presidential candidate had ever drawn, previous. And that's not a Constitutional flaw, that is a flaw in the very soul of the people.

-- Mal