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kentuck

(111,092 posts)
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:15 AM Nov 2020

It is not over yet.

As much as everyone would like to get on with their lives, it is not yet possible with Donald Trump and the seditious Republicans continuing to hold the election and the government hostage. Perhaps their strategy is to suppress the vote in the upcoming recall election in Georgia? To call their actions "un-American" is an understatement.

These people are no friends of "democracy". It sounds too much like "Democrats".

They have failed miserably in the courts and have now switched their strategy to county and state officials responsible for certifying the elections. What's next? Martial law?

As the coronavirus surges across the country, Trump and the Republicans choose to withhold everything from the new Biden Administration. They keep on believing that if they continue digging in the horse shit, they will surely find a pony in there somewhere?

It's Groundhog Day again.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It is not over yet. (Original Post) kentuck Nov 2020 OP
Agreed Sherman A1 Nov 2020 #1
republicons are afraid what they have been up to will come out scarytomcat Nov 2020 #2
They've been on an unprecedented crime spree for four years. lagomorph777 Nov 2020 #18
and he still has the National State of Emergency ace up his sleeve Celerity Nov 2020 #3
Yes, there is that. kentuck Nov 2020 #4
putting the NSA gambit aside, the way I see things playing out are Celerity Nov 2020 #7
"5 Trump will try and destroy us for the next 4 years ", yep I don't believe people thinking Red Don uponit7771 Nov 2020 #10
Twitter, Facebook, & every other major social network need to instantly give him the ban hammer Celerity Nov 2020 #12
+1, hmmmm ... this would instantly help to a degree until Red Don is given a radio or TV platform uponit7771 Nov 2020 #13
I think Buden should try to find the strongest AG nominee he can find. kentuck Nov 2020 #17
You have always been a voice of reason kentuck, gab13by13 Nov 2020 #5
Dare I say this, gab13by13 Nov 2020 #6
I see that Netanyahu was quick to congratulate Biden for his victory? kentuck Nov 2020 #19
We need to win the Senate in order to crush the gop fully BSdetect Nov 2020 #8
+1, just simply reinstating the Voting Rights Act would GARUNTEE a 2% drop in presidential ... uponit7771 Nov 2020 #11
They have to Dec 11 IINM, after that who cares what they think uponit7771 Nov 2020 #9
Trump supporters hamsterjill Nov 2020 #14
True this. BBbats Nov 2020 #15
They are more like a Cult than a Party. kentuck Nov 2020 #16
They have a need to be part of a group hamsterjill Nov 2020 #29
He's going to do as much Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #20
Who would order the Secret Service to do that? kentuck Nov 2020 #21
No. Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #22
Makes sense. kentuck Nov 2020 #23
I kind of hope Trump Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #25
He's been sniffing around for a war with Iran. Harker Nov 2020 #24
I agree. It's not over and here's my opinion. Firestorm49 Nov 2020 #26
Recall election in Georgia? Sedona Nov 2020 #27
This is why Moscow Mitch has been feverishly packing the courts... karin_sj Nov 2020 #28

scarytomcat

(1,706 posts)
2. republicons are afraid what they have been up to will come out
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:24 AM
Nov 2020

I don't know exactly what it will be but Biden's team will find out. Will they tell us is another matter but dump and repulicons are running scared. Follow the MONEY. It will be interesting if suddenly Moscow Mitch starts sitting up straight and paying attention or putin gives them his special tea.

Celerity

(43,349 posts)
3. and he still has the National State of Emergency ace up his sleeve
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:25 AM
Nov 2020

And to use it, all it takes is a the stroke of his sharpie.


The Alarming Scope of the President's Emergency Powers




https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/

snip

But will they? Unknown to most Americans, a parallel legal regime allows the president to sidestep many of the constraints that normally apply. The moment the president declares a “national emergency”—a decision that is entirely within his discretion—more than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power. For instance, the president can, with the flick of his pen, activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans’ bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.

This edifice of extraordinary powers has historically rested on the assumption that the president will act in the country’s best interest when using them. With a handful of noteworthy exceptions, this assumption has held up. But what if a president, backed into a corner and facing electoral defeat or impeachment, were to declare an emergency for the sake of holding on to power? In that scenario, our laws and institutions might not save us from a presidential power grab. They might be what takes us down.

1. “A LOADED WEAPON”

The premise underlying emergency powers is simple: The government’s ordinary powers might be insufficient in a crisis, and amending the law to provide greater ones might be too slow and cumbersome. Emergency powers are meant to give the government a temporary boost until the emergency passes or there is time to change the law through normal legislative processes. Unlike the modern constitutions of many other countries, which specify when and how a state of emergency may be declared and which rights may be suspended, the U.S. Constitution itself includes no comprehensive separate regime for emergencies. Those few powers it does contain for dealing with certain urgent threats, it assigns to Congress, not the president. For instance, it lets Congress suspend the writ of habeas corpus—that is, allow government officials to imprison people without judicial review—“when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it” and “provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.”

Nonetheless, some legal scholars believe that the Constitution gives the president inherent emergency powers by making him commander in chief of the armed forces, or by vesting in him a broad, undefined “executive Power.” At key points in American history, presidents have cited inherent constitutional powers when taking drastic actions that were not authorized—or, in some cases, were explicitly prohibited—by Congress. Notorious examples include Franklin D. Roosevelt’s internment of U.S. citizens and residents of Japanese descent during World War II and George W. Bush’s programs of warrantless wiretapping and torture after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Abraham Lincoln conceded that his unilateral suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War was constitutionally questionable, but defended it as necessary to preserve the Union.

The Supreme Court has often upheld such actions or found ways to avoid reviewing them, at least while the crisis was in progress. Rulings such as Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, in which the Court invalidated President Harry Truman’s bid to take over steel mills during the Korean War, have been the exception. And while those exceptions have outlined important limiting principles, the outer boundary of the president’s constitutional authority during emergencies remains poorly defined.

snip

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
4. Yes, there is that.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:27 AM
Nov 2020

All he needs is for the right event to happen to give him the excuse to intervene. (His own little Reichstag fire)

Celerity

(43,349 posts)
7. putting the NSA gambit aside, the way I see things playing out are
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:53 AM
Nov 2020

1. Trump will try EVER single angle, legal and not, right up to Biden being sworn in to either try and steal it or to do just TRASH Biden with 100 million plus. He will try anything and everything (and will do so for the next 4 years) to delegitimise Biden's win.

2. Trump and his administration will do nothing to aid the transition. They will try and blow up as much shit as possible (including COVID, he will try and kill as many as possible on his way out, and to ratfuck the vaccine rollouts) to leave Biden a flaming set of 1000 dumpsters fires to try and put out.

3. Along the lines of number 2, I think he likely may start at least one military conflict (Iran perhaps) on his way out, and shuts down all security surveillance (or as much as possible) and quite likely does a LIHOP or even MIHOP play on one or more giant terrorist attacks on American soil within weeks or months after he leaves office, then he and all the Rethugs will blame Biden ENTIRELY for it all.

4. The Senate (provided we do not win both GA run-offs) will go, under the 'leadership' of Moscow McTurtle, full stop block of EVERYTHING Biden tries to do, including all (or nearly all) Cabinet nominations, all judicial nominations, etc etc etc etc, everything possible, for as long as they control the Senate. I am talking 4, even 8 full years or more, IF the Rethugs control the Senate and a Dem has the POTUS. IF the Rethugs take back the House as well in 2022 (we have a horrid record for Dem POTUS first midterms, look at 2010 and 1994), they will also immediately begin impeachment charges.

5 Trump will try and destroy us for the next 4 years and will run (or at least say he is) again in 2024 (thus keeping the Rethugs under his whip hand of madness) unless he is imprisoned (4 year clock starts for NY AG and SDNY at around noon, January 21, 2021) or dies before then.

Finally, we have the NSA option, which if Trump goes there, risks kinetic civil war if he declares it and then tries a nationwide crackdown (with him shutting down many things, including possibly trying to shut down the internet, which is a power he will have under the NSA).

We are in for a fucking shitshow no matter what, and a long term one I fear. The bedrock structural, (and indeed the zeitgeist itself) ties and assumptions that bind the union together are being shredded with a million machete and axe blows as we speak.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
10. "5 Trump will try and destroy us for the next 4 years ", yep I don't believe people thinking Red Don
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:04 AM
Nov 2020

... will just go away quietly in the night, he wont.

Red Don, will be king maker in the kGOP until he dies or goes to jail ... there's no putting things back together when a cult of personality is leading cult members.

Jus going away is not how cult leading humans act

Celerity

(43,349 posts)
12. Twitter, Facebook, & every other major social network need to instantly give him the ban hammer
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:08 AM
Nov 2020
the minute Biden is sworn in.

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
17. I think Buden should try to find the strongest AG nominee he can find.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:10 AM
Nov 2020

Someone who can protect justice and the rule of law.

He/She needs to be tough. Biden does not have to get involved with investigations and such, but the Department of Justice needs to be restored. It needs to be fumigated.

gab13by13

(21,333 posts)
5. You have always been a voice of reason kentuck,
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:36 AM
Nov 2020

Trump's new strategy is to delay certifications and send the election to the Supreme Court. These people are always underestimated. The fuckers are busy confirming judges during the lame duck session. Biden is going to have his hands full trying to work with these traitors.

gab13by13

(21,333 posts)
6. Dare I say this,
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 08:43 AM
Nov 2020

Pompeo is off visiting Israel, UAE, and Saudi Arabia, all enemies of Iran. Why would Pompeo take a world tour in the lame duck session?

We know from reporting that Trump wants to bomb Iran's nuclear site, maybe even with a nuke? Starting WW III would be an excuse for him to stay in power. I think the only thing holding Trump back from bombing Iran is Putin, but Putin may just forego his friendship with Iran to allow a war that he can sit back and watch.

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
19. I see that Netanyahu was quick to congratulate Biden for his victory?
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:15 AM
Nov 2020

What goes with that? What happened to his love affair with Trump?

Pompeo is probably trying to close a deal with the countries mentioned. They have long wanted nuclear energy plants. Rumors of nuclear plants in the Middle East have been around for awhile and both Trump and Netanyahu were pushing the deal.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
11. +1, just simply reinstating the Voting Rights Act would GARUNTEE a 2% drop in presidential ...
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:06 AM
Nov 2020

... races for the kGOP seeing their bullshit pulls those margins as an average.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
14. Trump supporters
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 09:22 AM
Nov 2020

I think they are going to be the problem once all of Trump’s avenues to overturn the votes are exhausted. They are relatively quiet right now because they are watching the process and are still being assured by Trump that he won.

The rabid supporters in my area are completely loyal to Trump and some of them are antsy to prove that. They whip one another into a frenzy just like a cult. They have a structure with a leader of each small band of supporters. There are a lot of them around here. They have guns.

The police are on their side for the most part.

Who will save us from them when they go ballistic when they are told Trump has no further recourse?

Democratic leadership scares me because during the moments of wanting us all to come together, healing the country and “going high”, they forget these groups and that they are going to have to be dealt with. There will be no reasoning with these crazies. There needs to be a plan in place to handle the almost certain repercussions and mayhem that these groups may cause.

BBbats

(89 posts)
15. True this.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:07 AM
Nov 2020

I live in a suburb of Philadelpia,PA.

It's more blue then it used to be but Trumpanzees are legion and scary. You can't "reach out" to these people.


“They won't listen. Do you know why? Because they have certain fixed notions about the past. Any change would be blasphemy in their eyes, even if it were the truth. They don't want the truth; they want their traditions.”
― Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
16. They are more like a Cult than a Party.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:07 AM
Nov 2020

Maybe they are the Cult Party?

They seem to have no idea of what they really want from government? Many would probably prefer "no government"?

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
29. They have a need to be part of a group
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 11:27 AM
Nov 2020

The leaders know this and push the right buttons to make these idiots feel that they “belong”. Then the leaders demand loyalty or threaten to evict the idiots from the group.

I’ve not heard one Dem say anything about how this will be dealt with when these groups start their rage. I think that’s a mistake for Dems not to have plans in place. The police are NOT going to be reliable for enforcing the rule of law in many of these Trump loving areas.

You have only to look at the social media pages of these Trump band leaders to see that they are planning something and that they have no expectation that Biden will ever take office.

I’m sorry, but it’s scary.

Turin_C3PO

(13,982 posts)
20. He's going to do as much
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:17 AM
Nov 2020

damage as he can in the next 60 days. It's going to be a bumpy ride. But make no mistake, he WILL leave in January even if he has to be dragged out in handcuffs by the Secret Service or US Marshalls.

Turin_C3PO

(13,982 posts)
22. No.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:28 AM
Nov 2020

On noon of the day of the inauguration, the office leaves Donald Trump. The Secret Service and other agencies immediately become loyal to the new president, which will be Biden. Based on articles I've read, the SS has no love for the Trump family so you don't have to worry about any sedition from their end.

kentuck

(111,092 posts)
23. Makes sense.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:33 AM
Nov 2020


They should have a couple of US Marshals nearby, just in case he has any second thoughts.

Turin_C3PO

(13,982 posts)
25. I kind of hope Trump
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:45 AM
Nov 2020

refuses to leave. I'd love to see him frogmarched out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs. It probably won't happen though. He'll likely leave before Bidens inauguration and hole up in Mar-a-Lago. I guarantee you he won't be gracious and attend the inauguration ceremony or shake Biden's hand.

Harker

(14,015 posts)
24. He's been sniffing around for a war with Iran.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:44 AM
Nov 2020

I'm pretty sure every nightmare scenario involving declaring an emergency, instituting martial law, and calling out the "militias" has already been considered.

Firestorm49

(4,035 posts)
26. I agree. It's not over and here's my opinion.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 10:55 AM
Nov 2020

1 Trump thinks he still is holding what he believes to be the wild card. He believes that he can still pull it off, hence, no concession.

2 The obvious alternative; He very likely could become the first former president to be jailed, and he’s crapping his pants at the thought. Personally, nothing could make all of us on DU happier.

#1 should be of more concern. Will it be a massive armed conflict? Does he think he can change enough electors votes to upend a “landslide” election? Could he actually attempt a coup? Answer; any one of the above.

We continue to scratch our heads at the greatest buffoon to have ever occupied the White House. My hope is that the relatively silent Democrat leadership is equally armed to counter whatever offensive the fool has in his little childlike cranium.

karin_sj

(808 posts)
28. This is why Moscow Mitch has been feverishly packing the courts...
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 11:17 AM
Nov 2020

... the Supreme Court and many, many federal courts. They probably think that sooner or later they're going to have one or more of "their" judges making a decision in their favor, proof or no proof. This is scary, treasonous, and outrageous.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»It is not over yet.