Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

irisblue

(32,828 posts)
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:22 PM Nov 2020

An NYT OpEd that says what I'm thinking.

No, I am not an aged pale male in a diner in NE Ohio either

Source-https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/opinion/trump-supporters.html

Title-Reach Out to Trump Supporters,’ They Said. I Tried.
I give up.

Wajahat Ali
By Wajahat Ali
Contributing Opinion Writer

Nov. 19, 2020


Long Op Ed, if you are paywalled out, I suggest you empty your cache and/or open an incognito tab to read it.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/opinion/trump-supporters.html


snip-"We cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. Trump is an extension of their id, their culture, their values, their greed. He is their defender and savior. He is their blunt instrument. He is their destructive drug of choice.

Don’t waste your time reaching out to Trump voters like I did. Instead, invest your time organizing your community, registering new voters and supporting candidates who reflect progressive values that uplift everyone, not just those who wear MAGA hats, in local and state elections. Work also to protect Americans against lies and conspiracy theories churned out by the right wing media and political ecosystem. One step would be to continue pressuring social media giants like Twitter and Facebook to deplatform hatemongers, such as Steve Bannon, and censor disinformation. It’s not enough, but it’s a start.

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
An NYT OpEd that says what I'm thinking. (Original Post) irisblue Nov 2020 OP
This is great and I agree cilla4progress Nov 2020 #1
K&R Blue Owl Nov 2020 #2
Makes sense to me. Polly Hennessey Nov 2020 #3
I agree. Richard58 Nov 2020 #19
your brother has been brainwashed by right wing media TeamPooka Nov 2020 #20
Don't argue facts with him. wnylib Nov 2020 #21
Exactly. I have a family member that voted Roc2020 Nov 2020 #28
If the Democrats did that, why didn't they win all the House and Senate seats treestar Nov 2020 #37
Funny how you never, ever, EVER hear about how Trumpers 50 Shades Of Blue Nov 2020 #4
They would be reaching out with brass knuckles and baseball bats! niyad Nov 2020 #17
Yes. And none of the states that went to Dump treestar Nov 2020 #38
If someone is still supporting Trump after all we know about him, they will probably never Arkansas Granny Nov 2020 #5
Democrats have to reach out if we want them to wear facemasks, if we want them to accept Doodley Nov 2020 #6
The country has always been this divided. It's always 51-49. maxsolomon Nov 2020 #8
Reaching out is a waste of energy... Trueblue Texan Nov 2020 #9
We don't have to like them. They don't have to like us. We do need certain minimal decency. lagomorph777 Nov 2020 #14
Yes cynical_idealist Nov 2020 #33
... handmade34 Nov 2020 #7
No worries there. warmfeet Nov 2020 #10
Marginalize tRump-Republicons and force reasonable conservatives to make a new party. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2020 #11
K&R ismnotwasm Nov 2020 #12
"Why Aren't There More Moderate Muslims Like You?" panfluteman Nov 2020 #13
"He is their destructive drug of choice." cp Nov 2020 #15
A phrase Barack Obama said in a BBC interview stuck with me. mwooldri Nov 2020 #16
"Just as in 2016, I don't need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again." Final paras Hekate Nov 2020 #18
Numbers don't lie; everybody does better when Democrats do the governing. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2020 #26
A worthy read. NoRoadUntravelled Nov 2020 #22
Steve Bannon...What is going on with his fraud accusation? Escurumbele Nov 2020 #23
There is only so much you can do for an addict... Ford_Prefect Nov 2020 #24
It's futile arguing faith religion or philosophy Roc2020 Nov 2020 #25
It's a waste of time to reach out to most Republicans. Lonestarblue Nov 2020 #27
Amen Joinfortmill Nov 2020 #29
Calling a spade a spade: world wide wally Nov 2020 #30
Trump supporters are nearly showing the same level of fanaticism as Germans did to Hitler. hadEnuf Nov 2020 #31
This sure speaks to me, too. calimary Nov 2020 #32
And that's on period! coolhandlulu Nov 2020 #35
K&R! mtnsnake Nov 2020 #34
Rec'ed ,kicked and bookmarked. Niagara Nov 2020 #36

Polly Hennessey

(6,745 posts)
3. Makes sense to me.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:27 PM
Nov 2020

You cannot talk to or reason with Trump supporters. I believe some say it is, “spinning your wheels.”

Richard58

(239 posts)
19. I agree.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:47 PM
Nov 2020

My brother is a Trump supporter and last week we had an hour long discussion (argument) over the phone about Trump. It was then I realized how far down the Trump rabbit hole he has gone. We couldn't even agree on basic facts! For example, he said Trump was a "brilliant businessman" who was worth 10 billion dollars. I said he only had a couple hundred million in his account and owed 400 million to creditors. My brother said that a lie by the NYT's. I said, no, the NYT's had his tax records and my brother said they made it up! Every bad thing I brought up about Trump was "fake news" according to my brother!
My brother ranted about how the Democrats rigged the election and created "millions of fake ballots" and that in reality Trump had won all 50 States by a landslide. I told him he was delusional. I asked him if that were true then why has EVERY court challenge by the Trump administration been dismissed as having no evidence to back up the claim. He said the Judges were either paid off or threatened by the Deep State! The whole conversation was insane. It was impossible to reason with him. You can't have a conversation with someone who doesn't acknowledge reality. We ended up agreeing to disagree because I was exhausted having to deal with his BS. I said, "Believe what you want. I guess facts don't matter." And I know a lot of Trumpers are like him. We can't reach them. They live in an alternative reality where the Dear Leader is never wrong. I find it maddening and quite sad.

wnylib

(21,146 posts)
21. Don't argue facts with him.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 04:37 PM
Nov 2020

Instead, ask him why it's so important to him to believe that Trump is a great businessman. Or, why it makes him feel better to think that there is a deep state. Talk about how he feels, not what he thinks or believes.

Let him spew out all the injustices he believes he has experienced. Can't talk rationally with someome who is dominated by strong emotions. He's feeling fear and anger. Trump expresses those things for him. Bring them out for him to face himself so he doesn't need to use Trump as a front.

Roc2020

(1,601 posts)
28. Exactly. I have a family member that voted
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:03 PM
Nov 2020

for Trump in 2016 that I would bet my bottom dollar would not do the same in 2020. Yet they did and also thinks the election was stolen from Trump. A real head scratcher I tell ya.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
37. If the Democrats did that, why didn't they win all the House and Senate seats
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 09:48 AM
Nov 2020

But yeah, they are delusional.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
38. Yes. And none of the states that went to Dump
Fri Nov 20, 2020, 09:49 AM
Nov 2020

had any election fraud! I wonder if they would admit that any Democratic House Reps elected in Texas or Florida must be legit wins.

Arkansas Granny

(31,483 posts)
5. If someone is still supporting Trump after all we know about him, they will probably never
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:28 PM
Nov 2020

turn on him. They are too far gone.

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
6. Democrats have to reach out if we want them to wear facemasks, if we want them to accept
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 02:33 PM
Nov 2020

that Joe Biden is a legitimate president, if we don't want to live in a nation as badly divided as it is now. As for the criminals in and around the presidency, there should be no compromise.

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
8. The country has always been this divided. It's always 51-49.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:20 PM
Nov 2020

Biden beat Trump by MORE than Reagan beat Carter.

Now, were Republicans as utterly delusional previously? Probably not.

Trueblue Texan

(2,367 posts)
9. Reaching out is a waste of energy...
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:21 PM
Nov 2020

...we have done this for years and all it got us was a bunch of research assignments where we brought forward the evidence refuting the lies the right-wingers were spouting. It did no good to provide them with good information, it simply wasted our time, our energy, our lives, our DEMOCRACY. Walk away from them, don't include them in your circle any longer, build a stronger democracy without them. If they want to live in it, good. If they don't at least we won't be helping them tear it down and drain our resources.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
14. We don't have to like them. They don't have to like us. We do need certain minimal decency.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:35 PM
Nov 2020

Or America won't survive.

We have to hack into their infobubble. Use Cambridge Analytica style tactics to shove crafted messages in their faces on facebook. Twiddle the tweets they see on twitter.

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
10. No worries there.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:23 PM
Nov 2020

I will not be reaching out to any tRump supporters. Every single one I know is batshit insane. Thankfully, not a single one of them are family or friends. Well, of course they are not friends - should go without saying.

panfluteman

(2,054 posts)
13. "Why Aren't There More Moderate Muslims Like You?"
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:34 PM
Nov 2020

Was my favorite line from the article. Well, there are - you just don't hear about them, listening to all that hateful anti-Muslim rhetoric.

cp

(6,536 posts)
15. "He is their destructive drug of choice."
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:39 PM
Nov 2020

As with alcohol, you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
Accept what you cannot change (Trumpers' worship of Trump) and change what you can.
Also, wisdom to know the difference.

I want to work to help people with food and housing. We have a lot of work to do, together.

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
16. A phrase Barack Obama said in a BBC interview stuck with me.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:40 PM
Nov 2020

"Truth Decay".

I honestly feel America has a bad case of truth Decay - especially in those who support Trump and especially those hooked by "Q". When a BBC journalist asked a number of Trump Q supporters who were protesting in Atlanta whether they believed in the Q nonsense the answer was quite revealing. Also that Q-Anon congresscritter who got selected in GA - BBC asked for an interview and answer was "No Foreign Press".

Some Trumpists are way too far gone - the truth decay is too bad. Like a diseased tooth, you'd pull it out, same way with these guys - let them be as they're not worth reaching out to. Other Trumpists may be worth saving. However I don't know what the equivalent of a "root canal" would be here and how to administer it.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
18. "Just as in 2016, I don't need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again." Final paras
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 03:46 PM
Nov 2020
Don’t waste your time reaching out to Trump voters as I did. Instead, invest your time organizing your community, registering new voters and supporting candidates who reflect progressive values that uplift everyone, not just those who wear MAGA hats, in local and state elections. Work also to protect Americans against lies and conspiracy theories churned out by the right-wing media and political ecosystem. One step would be to continue pressuring social media giants like Twitter and Facebook to deplatform hatemongers, such as Steve Bannon, and censor disinformation. It’s not enough, but it’s a start.

Or, you can just watch “The Queen’s Gambit” on Netflix while downing your favorite pint of ice cream and call it a day.

Just as in 2016, I don’t need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again. I want them to have health insurance, decent-paying jobs and security for their family. I do not want them to suffer, but I also refuse to spend any more time trying to understand and help the architects of my oppression.

I will move forward along with the majority who want progress, equality and justice for all Americans. If Trump supporters decide they want the same, they can always reach out to me. They know where to find me. Ahead of them.



Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
26. Numbers don't lie; everybody does better when Democrats do the governing.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 04:59 PM
Nov 2020

Deplorables can't seem to look beyond the messages of sociopathic billionaires -- both GOP-grown and Russian.

NoRoadUntravelled

(2,626 posts)
22. A worthy read.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 04:50 PM
Nov 2020

I feel like I have beat my head against the proverbial wall since 2015 and what I've learned is this;
You can only beat your head against a wall so many times before your skull turns to mush. It's not worth it.

Escurumbele

(3,340 posts)
23. Steve Bannon...What is going on with his fraud accusation?
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 04:51 PM
Nov 2020

Bannon should be in jail, what is going on? Does he still have a platform?

Roc2020

(1,601 posts)
25. It's futile arguing faith religion or philosophy
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 04:56 PM
Nov 2020

with a true believer. Most of Trump supporters are true believers. It's about seeing their beliefs and philosophy in Trump. It was never about policy.

Lonestarblue

(9,874 posts)
27. It's a waste of time to reach out to most Republicans.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:01 PM
Nov 2020

The Georgia Secretary of State is one of the few who seems to have some integrity. Instead of spending our time trying to win over Republicans, we need to spend our time on winning elections in the future. Republicans won far too many races this year, and they will gerrymander the hell out of states they control next year. Here’s a reminder of how Republicans have screwed us all out over.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/19/gerrymandering-republicans-redmap

world wide wally

(21,718 posts)
30. Calling a spade a spade:
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:21 PM
Nov 2020

Face it, MAGAts and Republicans.
You are all a bunch of chicken shit cowards who are too afraid to stand up to Trump .... Even for your own country.
Fuck the Constitution... WE NEED Trump to be our President whether he wins or loses election or surely we will die.
Let me ask you something: Exactly WTF does he do for you to help you along in your daily life that you simply can't get by without him?
You twist yourselves into pretzels trying to justify the shit he does, and now you've gotten to the point where you want to eliminate our right to vote for our President just to appease this wimp who has never had dirty hands in his life because he has never worked a day in his life.
Fuck off.

hadEnuf

(2,149 posts)
31. Trump supporters are nearly showing the same level of fanaticism as Germans did to Hitler.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:24 PM
Nov 2020

We need a denazification of the country similar to Germany's after WWII.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
32. This sure speaks to me, too.
Thu Nov 19, 2020, 05:28 PM
Nov 2020

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2020, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)

EXACTLY how I'm feeling.

You TRY.

You try to set an example.

You reach out - as they're NOT doing (um, what's wrong with THEM reaching out? After all, WE're the ones who WON!!!)

And if they don't come? If they don't want to play? If they STILL don't want to play? Fuck 'em.

I'm sick of it, too. Trying to be nice. When they're kicking us in the teeth, they've BEEN kicking us in the teeth, and they're trying to KEEP kicking us in the teeth even after our election win tied their feet together? And we still have to be nice? FUCK THAT!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»An NYT OpEd that says wha...