Michigan political reporter doubts GOP members of Board of Canvassers will certify state results

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Susan J. Demas 🏔
@sjdemas
As it stands now, I very much doubt either GOP member of the Michigan Board of State Canvassers will vote to certify the election results. It would be great for democracy to be proven wrong.
6:55 PM · Nov 19, 2020

[rzemanfl]

1. It sounds like a ministerial duty from what the Michigan Secretary of State said

on Rachel tonight.

[Nevilledog]

4. That was at the county level.

This is state level to certify the state as opposed to individual County.
Board is split 2 Dems & 2 Repukes

[rzemanfl]

6. What right do they have to change the facts? n/t

[Nevilledog]

7. What does right have to do with being a Republican?

Link to tweet

[rzemanfl]

13. There is that. n/t

[Alhena]

20. This article says the duty is ministerial with the state board as well ... link

https://www.michiganadvance.com/2020/11/10/courts-could-step-in-if-theres-a-deadlock-to-certify-bidens-election/

What underpins a scenario of a deadlock is that the board’s duties are ministerial — meaning that their responsibility to certify election results must be performed according to established legal procedure and without exercising individual discretion.

“If the votes are there, and they’ve been certified by the counties … this board has no choice but to certify,” Brewer said.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. This is sedition, war...we have to treat it accordingly

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. I knew it, be prepared to physically defend your country folks

This is a physical act of war if they do it.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

15. Oh great

Just what I need
More abuse trauma and ruin in my life.
I have started to feel a bit of relief from my ptsd.

So much for feeling peace after all the years of going through hell.

I don't want to lose my home my health, my sanity my life.

I hate bullies, HATE them. Fucking asshole magats.

Welp if the war begins eventually I will lose the little money I need to exist, then I will lose my home, and everything I have, Than I'll lose my cat how can I keep him safe? I dont want to give him up,I love my cat.Then eventually I wont be able to pay bills,pay rent, eat,get my meds, lose my mind,and my diabeties will slowly kill me.

Thats is what would happen to me if civil war broke out.


I live in hud housing and all the magat pigs out here know this is hud housing ,will they come to shoot us,they will figure out I am a lib just by the posters on my wall and my trans flag..

What a wonderful future...

If those magat pigs hurt any of my neighbors I will die fighting those fuckers,even if I have to do it alone.

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. This is their dream scenario, to end all us libs. End all POC and so on.

For 4 years I got BASHED when I would predict trump doing the worst thing possible.

No, he wont go THAT far.

No he isnt guilty of treason, I was told I was "over the top"

God dammit, they are doing this right before our eyes and once again we wonder if they will.

YES they will.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

22. yeah I got bashed a bit too for telling the truthnobody wanted to hear.

I felt like it may come to fighting physically.

Maybe its my past talking..maybe its not.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. No good fuckers

every last ONE OF YOU lurking now

[texasfiddler]

3. I never thought Nancy Pelosi would be the next President.

[RockRaven]

8. That's actually what people need to be telling these canvassers, right?

"You might like Trump over Biden, but you down this road and you'll get Pelosi"

It's worth a shot anyway, maybe they'll blink.

[Kaleva]

9. Then it goes to court where Trump has a dismal record.

[kansasobama]

10. Some DUers were warning about this

I think Democrats were caught flat footed. There is absolutely nothing going on in Michigan Legislature. Where are the Democrats? Where are the Democratic Senators from Michigan? Where is everyone?

2 GOP canvassers can bring in bloodshed and dictatorship. It is that simple. There is nothing I see him law. It is a moral duty but GOP gas no morals.

I AM SICK...

[StarfishSaver]

23. The Democrats haven't been caught flat-footed at all

It's a little arrogant to assume that DUers are in the know but the Democrats aren't.

Just because the Democrats and their lawyers didn't talk about this publicly before the election doesn't mean they haven't prepared for it. The fact that Trump and his allies are getting thrown out of court left and right isn't an accident or isn't just because their cases were weak. The Democrats and others in these cases have been well-prepared, have been getting ready for this for months and have excellent lawyering.

This isn't an issue for the Democratic senators to be dealing with. They need to stay out of it since getting involved is inappropriate meddling. There also isn't any role for the state legislature right now, either. The right people are involved and they are doing a great job - and so far, they have been handing Trump and his buddies their asses on a plate.

[Thekaspervote]

31. Thank you Starfish..a voice of sanity in these crazy times!

[dware]

32. Jeez,

I wish I could rec your post a thousand times.

[mcar]

33. +1000!

[GoCubsGo]

40. Exactly right

The hired hundreds of lawyers months ahead of the election in anticipation of this kind of shit. Hundreds. With hundreds of others volunteering their services, too.

[StarfishSaver]

41. And that's in addition to all of the civil rights groups who also have litigators in these cases

The Lawyers Committee, ACLU, NAACP, NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Common Cause, Southern Poverty Law Center, etc. are winning cases right and left.

[hlthe2b]

11. Here is what happens if they do. (Courts step in and charge them w contempt/&/or certify themselves

https://www.michiganadvance.com/2020/11/10/courts-could-step-in-if-theres-a-deadlock-to-certify-bidens-election/

This seems to suggest that at most, a delay could occur in certification, but it would not replace the slate of electors.

[Nevilledog]

12. That's basically what I'm reading.

All these variations election procedures for each individual state is confusing.

[rzemanfl]

16. This is an important quote-

"What underpins a scenario of a deadlock is that the board’s duties are ministerial — meaning that their responsibility to certify election results must be performed according to established legal procedure and without exercising individual discretion.

'If the votes are there, and they’ve been certified by the counties … this board has no choice but to certify,' Brewer said."

Seems mandamus would be in order.

[Nevilledog]

19. Thank you for this. I had only heard the term ministerial as to the County boards.

[rzemanfl]

21. It was linked in the post above, by hlthe2b. n/t

[regnaD kciN]

34. The problem is...

...that the SCOTUS recently affirmed the principle that state courts cannot interpret state laws regarding elections for federal offices…but federal courts can.

So, if the Biden campaign goes to the Michigan courts and obtains an order to certify, Ghouliani simply takes it to the SCOTUS, who will undoubtedly vacate the ruling and declare a deadlock, ordering the state legislature to award the electors as they see fit. And there’s no appeal from that decision.

Sorry to say it but Trump’s plan to get to 270 electors – “legally” according to the rules of the game – is a lot more attainable than people here are assuming. The only thing that can stop it is partisan Republicans in various legislative and judicial positions prioritizing fairness over keeping a stranglehold on power. Does anyone believe that is likely to happen?

[StarfishSaver]

36. When did the Supreme Court rule that state courts can't interpret state laws

regarding federal elections, but federal courts can?

[dware]

39. Do you have a link for this statement?

The problem is...
that the SCOTUS recently affirmed the principle that state courts cannot interpret state laws regarding elections for federal offices…but federal courts can.

I can't find anything about this anywhere, so a link would be appropriate.

[rzemanfl]

42. I see other DUers asked for a citation while I slept.

I join those requests.

[Cha]

14. And, what is the Solution to this?

Will it go to the SOS? TY!

[StarfishSaver]

24. It doesn't go to the SOS

If both Republican canvassers refuse to certify, the Governor can replace one or both for violating their duty to perform their ministerial duty. Or, more likely, the Biden campaign or another entity can go to court and have the court order the canvassers to certify the results. If they still refuse, the court could certify the results itself and hold them in contempt.

I don't think both Republicans will refuse to certify, but we'll see.

[Cha]

27. Thank you so much for this, StarfishSaver!!

Drama on the High Seas!

[dalton99a]

18. Norm Shinkle's 2020 To-Do List

[Progressive dog]

25. The Michigan law says

that the state board "shall" certify the results.

The law that the state board “shall” certify the results if the county board doesn’t is unambiguous, Mr. Brewer said, “the kind of language that, in the past, Michigan courts have always enforced.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/politics/michigan-election-results.html

[Cha]

28. TY Pd!

[Thekaspervote]

29. I would encourage everyone who's nail biting over this to read the link provided in post #11

There is more than one legal option including the governor of MI removing one of the states board Canvassers. There are serious legal consequences for these ppl, including fines and jail

The vote will be certified one way or another

[wiggs]

35. Who will indict? Not feds. Who is the state AG? nt

[obamanut2012]

43. A Dem

[pat_k]

37. This thread indicates that MI courts will instruct them to certify

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214585817

Senator Curtis Hertel
@CurtisHertelJr

. . the states courts have always ruled the role is ministerial and will instruct them to certify.

[DesertRat]

38. Ben Ginsberg makes a great point on CNN

Ben Ginsburg makes a great point on @CNN
If the state cannot certify the election in #Michigan, nobody gets seated - federal or state level from #Michigan and that includes 6 GOP House reps and numerous GOP state level reps & senators who might want their jobs as well.

Link to tweet