This message was self-deleted by its author

[sl8]

This message was self-deleted by its author (sl8) on Thu Nov 26, 2020, 05:03 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. Good riddance!

I don't believe in the death penalty. But I'm shedding no tears over this scumbag.

[CatMor]

3. I feel the same. No tears at all.

[mvd]

6. It's natural to feel that way

I am completely against the DP but feel the same. I just don’t consider revenge like that moral or good policy.

[Mike 03]

2. He won't be missed. What a heinous crime:

Hall and several accomplices ran a marijuana trafficking operation in Arkansas in 1994, according to a Department of Justice statement. After a failed drug transaction involving $4,700, they drove to Texas to the home of the man they believed had stolen their money.

The man's 16-year-old sister, Lisa Rene, was home and refused to let them inside, the statement said. Although she had no connection with the drug transaction, the men broke into the apartment, kidnapped her at gunpoint and fled in a car to an Arkansas motel.

Rene was repeatedly raped in the car and at the motel. When Hall realized she knew too much, the statement said, he and his accomplices took her to a park where they had dug a grave. They beat her with a shovel, then buried her alive, according to the statement.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/us/orlando-hall-executed-for-murder/index.html

[Ahpook]

32. Whoa

I am not on board with the DP, but shit like that makes me feel weird. i don't know how to react.

My first thought is keep IT locked up in jail for the rest of it's miserable life. Sometimes I feel like take that asshole out.

I've never had a family member or friend murdered so it's hard to tell how I would react if it was personal. Maybe it is personal without being my own family?

Hard questions!

[BigDemVoter]

4. I am still feeling a wave of nausea. . . .

It didn't say, but I assume he set her on fire if he poured gasoline on her. The WORST thing one could do to another human being.

No words at all for this. I wish I could "un-see" it in my head.

[irisblue]

11. Me too

[XanaDUer2]

5. bye

evil

[cwydro]

7. A monster.

Ugh.

[BlueTsunami2018]

8. I can't say I'm too distraught over this.

I’m not jubilant either but this asshole deserved it.

[Ms. Toad]

9. We need to be better than this.

Halting the barbaric process of state execution has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the person executed. It has to do with what the execution does to those carrying it out, those on the jury that recommende it, and us - as a society as a whole. We are all diminished by engaging in vengeance killings.

Most of us have the luxury of distance from that involvement to make it more acceptable - in the same way we have distance from the wars waged on foreign soil. Those who carry out the execution, those in charge of caring for the person executed between sentencing and execution, many times family members of victims, and family members of the person executed often carry the burden for all of us. I've been too close to the death penalty (both as a sibling to a person on death row for 2 decades, and as the cousin of one of his victims) to have that luxury.

[Caliman73]

15. It isn't justice, merely revenge.

I totally get the impulse to revenge. I remember that a relative of mine told me that when we were younger they suffered a molestation. They didn't tell me because I would have likely tried to get revenge for the act. They were likely right, especially in my teenage years, I had problems controlling my anger.

I always thought however, that if you were not willing to get revenge yourself, and suffer whatever consequences, then it was just empty. I will admit today, that it is a simplistic idea, but I think it still applies to the death penalty. It is state sanctioned revenge. It doesn't make anything right.

I am not saying anything about the killer or the victim. I shed no tears for the killer and have nothing but empathy for the family to have lost a child, sister, friend, etc... in such a horrific way.

I simply think that a State that kills because killing is wrong and you need "justice" again, by being killed, is a silly concept.

[USALiberal]

22. +1000, look at the other countries that execute people! Nt

[Ms. Toad]

23. To be fair - they are the same countries that Trump admires :)

n/t

[I_UndergroundPanther]

24. Killing a monster like him

Has one purpose to permanently stop said psychopath from ever being able to hurt,abuse and terrorize another human being,forever.

There is a purpose to the death penalty and it isn't vengeance.

It's stopping them from harming more people,in jail or in the community.

[Ms. Toad]

25. You can achieve the same result

by life without parole. (Not to mention that it is considerably less costly to keep someone in prison for life than it is to execute them.)

There is zero societal justification for killing someone (with premeditation, and emotional torture along the way), rather than imposing a sentence of life without parole.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

26. If appeals were limited

It wouldn't cost more.

I have no pity for psychopaths,narcissists or dark triad personalities. They cannot be trusted around other people.

I abhor torture and solitary is torture.

Better that psychopaths die IMHO.

Would be fine with me if those dark triad personalities went extinct tho.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Are you going to limit the appeals of those wrongfully convicted, as well?

Do you agree with Scalia that, "Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached"? Herrera v. Collins (91-7328), 506 U.S. 390 (1993) If not, just how to you propose to avoid executing factually innocent people if you limit their appeals?

Are you aware that even if your trial counsel - on a death penalty case - sleeps during your trial they may not be incompetent? (Burdine v. Johnson). The federal district court deemed counsel competent; the appellate court ordered a new trial; the Supreme Court declined to grant cert. So it is unclear what the result would be today since it was not ultimately decided - but the fact that a court repeatedly appointed counsel known to sleep during trial to represent indigent death penalty defendants indicates that the state of Texas, at least, believes sleeping counsel is perfectly competent.

Are you aware that many errors made by the trial counsel CANNOT be addressed on appeal? I.e. those errors that occurred while your counsel was asleep (failing to object to cannot be corrected on appeal. Once made, many errors are set in stone because it is assumed counsel is competent and would have raised all issues that were known (or could have been known) at the trial - or used their professional judgment in choosing not to raise them.

Are you aware that the death penalty is imposed most frequently on minorities - and even more heavily on the relatively small portion of minority defendants who kill whites (regardless of the nature of the murder)?

I stand with Justice Blackmun, as should all progressive individuals:

"From this day forward,” Justice Harry Blackmun announced in 1994, “I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death.” Blackmun had voted to restore the death penalty and even to approve mandatory death sentences. But after 25 years, he said, “I feel morally and intellectually obligated simply to concede that the death penalty experiment has failed … the problems that were pursued down one hole with procedural rules and verbal formulas have come to the surface somewhere else, just as virulent and pernicious as they were in their original form.”

[I_UndergroundPanther]

30. I know there is problems with the system

And black people are victims to alot of the bullshit the councels do. But either clean out the incompetants and shady and get the profit out and make the justice system accountable. I'm all for that.

We need to clean out the corruption and get rid of the entrenched racism yes. We need to get the psychopathy out of prison staff. We need to get profits out of prisons.

But sometimes the defendant is truly guilty despite the corruption and a fucked up counsel.
They are still guilty.

Yeah there are Innocents,but there are Innocents also that suffer because of the guilty getting away with it.

So what you think torture in solitary is a solution to it? Prison staff have a dangerous job and like cops they over react,become neglectful etc.

Innocent and guilty people will lose thier minds in solitary.Some try to commit suicide from what it does to you.I was in solitary in a psych hospital for 18 months. It was before the two hour laws.I lost my mind. I still haven't recovered from it.

You think torture is ok
If it spares a life. A life they want to escape via death because of solitary?

I am totally against torture,for profit prisons.

However guilty psychopaths cannot be trusted with freedom and they make working or living around them seem like hell. They traumatize others and like doing it.

What do we do with people who given an opportunity will kill rape torture,abuse people and have no consience?

If they stay in prison they'll be tortured in solitary.Because they live to make others lives hell. They'll get thier asses tossed in there because of thier behaviors.

If we let the psychopath out on "good behavior" because you know damn well that happens too, they'll hurt or kill somebody. They are very manipulating and know how to exploit systems and people.
They can pretend they've changed ,got religion etc. To sway parole boards. We both know they can be pretend to be good in jail until they can get out and kill and traumatize others? A life sentence often gets cut shorter than life. Babysitting psychopaths for life costs a lot of money.

If we kill them they will never hurt an innocent person again.And they aren't tortured.

That is why properly applied representation can help the innocent but ultimately it's a tool the truly guilty, use

The guilty have to be contained and sometimes that containment includes solitary.

Torture them with solitary until they attempt suicide and die

or

Don't torture them ,don't let them abuse anymore and kill them.

That's the choices we have. Because we are locked on a planet with psychopath dark triad people that want and enjoy hurting,maiming and killing innocent people. Who don't care at all.

Either we trust the justice system or we don't. But for now that's all we have.
And the psychopaths need to be made harmless somehow.

I just want the guilty psychopath unable to cause any more harm.

From a grave he can't harm anymore,or be harmed.

[Ms. Toad]

34. What a load of bunk

Life without parole is not solitary. Where you got that idea is beyond my comprehension. Death row is often preferable to general population, but being in general population is not being in solitary confinement

My brother was on death row for 2 decades, and after commutation to life in prison without parole, in general population for another decade before dying a couple of years ago. He was able, while in prison, to create a life for himself, including earning the respect of the guards - and being a calming influence in the midst of a prison riot at Tecumseh. Many in the younger population watched how he reacted and followed his lead. He found spiritual grounding in prison, and became the spiritual leader of the Native American inmates there until his death. He was not in solitary for a single day in those ~30 years.

While on death row, he had numerous execution dates set. These dates - counting down to the day you die is every bit the equivalent of being held captive and told you are about to die - especially when the manner of the death penalty is excruciating (electrocution - and we are learning that even lethal injection is torture). It also tortures innocent people - like my parents who - several times - had to plan for their son's funeral and read the inflammatory rhetoric every single time a date for his execution was set, and again when the date drew near. It was torture for the 90% of the family members of his victims who opposed his execution - who were not even allowed to give victim impact statements at his final commutation hearing. It was torture for the guards who had become his friends in the two decades they cared for him.

You are viewing an alleged killer in isolation, from the perspective of believing he was guilty.

Our system does not work that way. Innocent people are executed - AND - even those who are not innocent are connected to friends and family - and often victims - who are being tortured by his execution in a way that most victims of crimes outside of state execution never are: The slow, very public march to execution and the demonization of their loved one.

There is absolutely NO justification for the death penalty. Nothing you have said even suggests there is - it is all rationalization, most of it based on false premises (the only way to protect society is to kill people; we can devise a fair justice system; all inmates sentenced to live in prison are in solitary confinement).

Just to be clear - my opposition to the death penalty predates my brother's conviction of a capital crime. My family has a long history of opposition to the death penalty; in fact my father testified against the very bill later used to convict his son. I am sharing these experiences in the hopes of shaking you out of your warped view of both people convicted of capital crimes, and the reality of life without parole.

[Backseat Driver]

10. Rest with murderous demons.

Fair judgment on a purposeless soul without potential - shame for last speaking of love - you knew it not!

[radius777]

12. I support the death penalty for certain crimes

and this would be one of them. And the needle is too gentle, I say bring back Old Sparky.

[Lunabell]

13. Deserved.

He was a danger to all humanity. And solitary confinement is cruel and unusual.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. I can't say that I feel bad about this,

even though I'm opposed to the death penalty on principle.

[smirkymonkey]

16. I won't shed a tear for this one.

That was a brutal, heinous crime. Scum like this deserves to die. I am against the DP in general, but there are exceptions and this is one of them.

[MissB]

17. Ok.

There are times I’d prefer life sentences instead.

[Alex4Martinez]

18. I can't help but reflect on the evil DJT will never be held accountable for having done.

As bad as this set of crimes is, Trump and his enabling Senators has done far more harm.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

19. Good. One less psychopath asshole

Who won't be able to hurt anyone ever again.
For dark triad criminals, that leave broken lives and trauma in their wake,sometimes for years before they get caught , I am okay with them being put to death.

Death penalty removes the danger psychopaths narcissists permanently since these monsters cannot recover with therapy or meds.

Each psychopath / dark triad monster executed is one less psychopath creating more innocent traumatized or dead victims to satisfy thier selfish wants and disgusting fantasies and obsessions.

[bigtree]

20. feds kill man who kidnapped, raped, buried Texas teen alive

...killed him without just cause.

Not for self-defense, not protecting public safety, not for deterrence.

By extension, we all killed him.

[Raine]

21. Good! 👍 nt

[mnmoderatedem]

27. I'm as anti death penalty as anyone

way too many problems with it. Too many to articulate, really.

But it's cases like these who make it challenging to oppose it.

[maxsolomon]

29. It should be cases like this that make the point.

You either believe the State has the moral authority to kill, or you don't.

Unlike most decisions, this one is binary.

[Calculating]

31. Good

I hope it was unpleasant for him, what a total monster.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. Abolish the death penalty.

[Greybnk48]

35. They euthanized a crazed animal

to protect the rest of us. Just like we would with any animal with rabies.

[roamer65]

36. Should have just thrown him into general population.

Would have saved us taxpayers money.