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Sat Nov 21, 2020, 04:39 PM

Rebecca Solnit: On Not Meeting Nazis Halfway

A Long Interesting read. And for the record I have no interest in understanding the mind of a Magat. I don't want to be what they are and if you understand it, you can be it.

“When Trump won the 2016 election—while losing the popular vote—the New York Times seemed obsessed with running features about what Trump voters were feeling and thinking. These pieces treated them as both an exotic species and people it was our job to understand, understand being that word that means both to comprehend and to grant some sort of indulgence to. Now that Trump has lost the 2020 election, the Los Angeles Times has given their editorial page over to letters from Trump voters, who had exactly the sort of predictable things to say we have been hearing for far more than four years, thanks to the New York Times and what came to seem like about 11,000 other news outlets hanging on the every word of every white supremacist they could convince to go on the record.

The letters editor headed this section with, “In my decade editing this page, there has never been a period when quarreling readers have seemed so implacably at odds with each other, as if they get their facts and values from different universes. As one small attempt to bridge the divide, we are providing today a page full of letters from Trump supporters.” The implication is the usual one: we—urban multiethnic liberal-to-radical only-partly-Christian America—need to spend more time understanding MAGA America. The demands do not go the other way. Fox and Ted Cruz and the Federalist have not chastised their audiences, I feel pretty confident, with urgings to enter into discourse with, say, Black Lives Matter activists, rabbis, imams, abortion providers, undocumented valedictorians, or tenured lesbians. When only half the divide is being tasked with making the peace, there is no peace to be made, but there is a unilateral surrender on offer. We are told to consider this bipartisanship, but the very word means both sides abandon their partisanship, and Mitch McConnell and company have absolutely no interest in doing that.”

Paul Waldman wrote a valuable column in the Washington Post a few years ago, in which he pointed out that this discord is valuable fuel to right-wing operatives: “The assumption is that if Democrats simply choose to deploy this powerful tool of respect, then minds will be changed and votes will follow. This belief, widespread though it may be, is stunningly naive.” He notes that the sense of being disrespected “doesn’t come from the policies advocated by the Democratic Party, and it doesn’t come from the things Democratic politicians say. Where does it come from? An entire industry that’s devoted to convincing white people that liberal elitists look down on them. The right has a gigantic media apparatus that is devoted to convincing people that liberals disrespect them, plus a political party whose leaders all understand that that idea is key to their political project and so join in the chorus at every opportunity.”

https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-on-not-meeting-nazis-halfway/?fbclid=IwAR0Y2v7y9gESjntnCVeMq0JnAU3_x1OREbk0TzPVbttrc0S1qSgkaCKT-oI


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Reply Rebecca Solnit: On Not Meeting Nazis Halfway (Original post)
Me. Saturday OP
Progressive Jones Saturday #1
DBoon Saturday #5
Blue_true Saturday #10
treestar Sunday #25
Skittles Saturday #2
Ferrets are Cool Saturday #3
Me. Saturday #9
Progressive Jones Sunday #30
ProfessorGAC Saturday #4
Hermit-The-Prog Saturday #6
Me. Saturday #8
Hermit-The-Prog Sunday #16
Me. Sunday #17
Hermit-The-Prog Sunday #34
Me. Sunday #35
lunasun Saturday #7
Tommymac Saturday #11
Me. Saturday #12
Tommymac Saturday #13
Me. Saturday #14
Withywindle Saturday #15
Roisin Ni Fiachra Sunday #18
Martin Eden Sunday #19
Me. Sunday #20
Martin Eden Sunday #21
Me. Sunday #23
treestar Sunday #26
Me. Sunday #29
Martin Eden Sunday #32
Hotler Sunday #22
Me. Sunday #24
treestar Sunday #27
treestar Sunday #28
gulliver Sunday #31
Me. Sunday #33

Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 04:44 PM

1. Many in magaworld have no concept of not biting the hand that feeds.


If Urban America took a month off -- no business dealings, no banking, etc., this nation would crumble.

Understand THAT, magaworld.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 06:05 PM

5. They think they are self sufficient in their rural isolation

and can survive without urban centers.

The fact is without urban trade networks, financial systems, supply chains and educational institutions, they would be living in the neolithic, slaughtering their livestock with flint hand axes.

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Response to DBoon (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:10 PM

10. Urban people pay more than they should for electricity, roads and broadband

so that rural people will have some of those things. If not for the urban charity, far rural people would be driving on rutted dirt roads, cooking their food with fire wood and lighting their homes with sheep-fat candles.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:31 AM

25. Exactly!

"They feed you" is the claim for why we should indulge them in their fantasies.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 04:58 PM

2. excellent read

thank you

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 05:45 PM

3. I will never respect "stupid"

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:05 PM

9. Repeatedly Calling THem Stupid

lets them off the hook for their mendacity, cruelty and racism. They know exactly what they are doing.

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Response to Me. (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:54 AM

30. More of a lack of any morals, and weakness of character, than stupidity. nt

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 05:53 PM

4. K&R!

Good piece!

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 06:57 PM

6. I call that "gigantic media apparatus" the propaganda machine. Compromise with Nazis? Nope.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:03 PM

8. Indeed

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Response to Me. (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:57 AM

16. I can't even figure out what halfway between fascism and democracy would look like.

Koch, Sinclair, Murdoch, Uilein, Hendrickson, Adelsen -- we sure have a lot of sociopathic billionaires who want to convince Joe Sixpack that Democrats will destroy democracy. I think maybe GOP fed them too much over the decades.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 09:29 AM

17. It's All About THem

and because they're rich think everyone should keel to their worst instincts. Now KOch is saying he's sorry and made a mistake.

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Response to Me. (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:51 PM

34. Koch said he's sorry while at the same time feeding a few hundred thou to Perdue and Loeffler.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 03:20 PM

35. And There You Have It

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 06:57 PM

7. IDC Fthem all

“Good germanenablers “2020 USA do you recognize yourselves in history ?

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:21 PM

11. I'll never respect Rethuglicans again. EvahEvahEvah

They are Anti-Democracy. Anti-Human Rights. Anti-Decency. Anti-Morals.

I proudly am anti-fascist.

Take that rethugs and shove it where the sun don't shine.

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Response to Tommymac (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:33 PM

12. When Someone Tells You Who They Are Believe Them

The one benefit to this time is now they have moved out into the open, we can see them clearly for exactly who they are

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Response to Me. (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 09:45 PM

13. Unfortunately my in-laws are the worst offenders.

Makes a peaceful home life a bit strained at times.

My spouse understands my feelings but still thinks of them as family and tolerates them.

Just for the strain they put on my relationship with the person I love is enough for me to despise them.

But that is small beer compared to families dealing with Covid. I feel blessed there ... so far.

Thanks for the OP and the reply.

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Response to Tommymac (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:05 PM

14. THe Old You Can't Chhose Families

so get better friends. Haven't talked to one brother in quite a while. Can't bear the blather and refuse to meet him halfway. It is what it is to paraphase King Criminal.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sat Nov 21, 2020, 10:05 PM

15. Great article, thanks for posting it!

I grew up in the Bible Belt, I already do understand the mentality. I think it's rooted entirely in racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-intellectualism, parochialism, nationalism, authoritarianism, Christian Dominionism, and fear of losing white entitlement. I don't need the New York Times to interview another goddamn redneck in another goddamn diner.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 10:00 AM

18. Exactly. Great read, ty.

No collaboration with, or appeasement of, Nazis.

Ever.

Those who don't learn lessons from history are doomed to repeat it, and Democrats need to learn the historical lesson of never appeasing Nazis. Because we are in process of repeating that very wrong part of history at this very moment.

If we do not stand on our principles, the Nazi's will be kneeling on our necks as we struggle to say

"I can't breathe"

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 10:24 AM

19. "When only half the divide is being tasked with making the peace, ..."

"... there is no peace to be made, but there is a unilateral surrender on offer."

If that is as true as it appears to be, where do we go from here?

A house divided against itself cannot stand. More than 73 million Americans voted for Trump. How can we learn to work together for our common interests?

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 10:37 AM

20. Actually, It's Not Quite A Divide

which always seems to imply half/half. There is a media influence which gives Cons more presence than they actually have. The issue for the future will be GOTV because as of now, according to Gallup, as of Oct. 16-27 2020 only 31% of the [population considers themselves republicon.

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Response to Me. (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:12 AM

21. When only 31% consider themselves Republican but approx 48%

of votes for a major party presidential candidate went to Donald Effing Trump, we have a problem that goes much deeper than party affiliation.

By all means GOTV is crucially important, but Trumpism is still rampant and very dangerous.

Part of the solution, in the long run, has to be winning more hearts and minds. I doubt attrition by disease and old age will be enough.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:22 AM

23. In The Long Run

Changing demographics will make the change which is why he gained more than 31% of the vote. White folks scared of losing their dominion which is happening each and every day.

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Response to Me. (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:36 AM

26. Can we convince them not to be scared of that?

We always feel like we are better than they but don't discuss much on how that could be approached to solve it. The "white privilege" narrative is not working, and you can see why if you are in their shoes. This should be approached differently - the "messaging" as it were. We do need some of them, or they will rule us as a minority given the Senate, EC, and even House disporportionality.

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Response to treestar (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:40 AM

29. I Don't Know

what has become apparent over the last 4 years is how deeply entrenched racism is in this country. I suppose if all people were lifted, economically, and none needed to have someone to look down on, it might change. Don't know.

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Response to treestar (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 12:41 PM

32. Focus our messaging on the common interests of the vast majority

Nearly everyone wants to keep their families helathy and safe. This includes not losing your health insurance if you lose your job on the next recession, losing everything including your life as a result. Coverage for preexisting conditions is very popular.

Nearly everyone wants economic opportunity, which includes quality affordable education and/or training as the employment landscape changes. And fair compensation for work performed.

Bottom line is identying common interests and goals, then having an adult conversation in the realm of ideas and solutions.

Not an easy task, with no shortage of bad faith actors eager to derail it in service to the vested interests.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:18 AM

22. "The assumption is that if Democrats simply choose to deploy this powerful tool of respect,

then minds will be changed and votes will follow. This belief, widespread though it may be, is stunningly naive.”

I'm no longer playing nice with repugs.

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Response to Hotler (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:25 AM

24. I Quite Agree

Up of now there has always been the presumption of goodwill but it's been eroded, slowly but surely ever since Cheney was president and then mcconnell decided to burn the house down.

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Response to Me. (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:38 AM

27. The next time McTurtle refuses to put a house bill up for vote

The next protest should be "allow the vote" to put a magnifying glass onto this unprecedented abuse of power. Say they have a duty to vote on it and vote it down if they must.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:39 AM

28. The EC and Senate giving them more power

We should have the message that it is their constitutional duty to consider the needs of urbanites. Their Christian duty, too.

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Response to Me. (Original post)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 11:56 AM

31. All sides make simplistic use of irrelevant information. There's no such thing as halfway.

There's no spectrum. There's no political polarity with Nazis on one end and Commies on the other, racists on one end, defenders of the oppressed on the other. That's an unworkable model, a hopelessly distorted, useless shadow of our true situation.

And of course, because of this distortion, I have to say what I'm not saying, the Republicanist political philosophy is not the equivalent of the liberal political philosophy. Republicanism has become a kind of cancer. But you don't cure it by getting out your saw.

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Response to gulliver (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 22, 2020, 01:01 PM

33. Interestimg Post

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