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Mon Nov 23, 2020, 12:56 PM

Michigan Board of Canvassers meeting livestream starting shortly:

&fbclid=IwAR32pYa14rnRGQJ8IIW41nTz4EyoBWCmdDMeHWcD93XctWJ9bNPx-4DQBHA

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Reply Michigan Board of Canvassers meeting livestream starting shortly: (Original post)
Sogo Nov 23 OP
wryter2000 Nov 23 #1
TeamPooka Nov 23 #2
demmiblue Nov 23 #3
demmiblue Nov 23 #6
leftofthestorm Nov 23 #4
Takket Nov 23 #5
joshcryer Nov 23 #7
brooklynite Nov 23 #9
joshcryer Nov 23 #10
brooklynite Nov 23 #8
brooklynite Nov 23 #11
EndlessWire Nov 23 #12
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #13
demmiblue Nov 23 #14
Hassin Bin Sober Nov 23 #15
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #16
joshcryer Nov 23 #17
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #19
joshcryer Nov 23 #22
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #27
WhiskeyGrinder Nov 23 #21
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #28
brooklynite Nov 23 #18
joshcryer Nov 23 #26
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #30
joshcryer Nov 23 #31
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #32
LeftInTX Nov 23 #33
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #34
LeftInTX Nov 23 #62
Ms. Toad Nov 23 #63
LineReply .
Hassin Bin Sober Nov 23 #20
LisaL Nov 23 #23
Kaleva Nov 23 #25
LisaL Nov 23 #24
Sogo Nov 23 #36
Karma13612 Nov 23 #29
Hav Nov 23 #35
brooklynite Nov 23 #37
Hav Nov 23 #38
demmiblue Nov 23 #50
roamer65 Nov 23 #51
Karma13612 Nov 23 #39
Sogo Nov 23 #40
Karma13612 Nov 23 #41
demmiblue Nov 23 #42
Karma13612 Nov 23 #43
Owl Nov 23 #45
demmiblue Nov 23 #44
nolabear Nov 23 #46
Takket Nov 23 #47
demmiblue Nov 23 #48
joshcryer Nov 23 #49
Karma13612 Nov 23 #52
Hassin Bin Sober Nov 23 #53
LudwigPastorius Nov 23 #54
nolabear Nov 23 #56
demmiblue Nov 23 #55
nolabear Nov 23 #57
Takket Nov 23 #58
nolabear Nov 23 #59
nolabear Nov 23 #60
Hassin Bin Sober Nov 23 #61
nolabear Nov 23 #64
demmiblue Nov 23 #65
nolabear Nov 23 #67
demmiblue Nov 23 #69
Karma13612 Nov 23 #70
Karma13612 Nov 23 #66
Sogo Nov 23 #68
zanana1 Nov 23 #71
dware Nov 23 #72
Kaleva Nov 23 #73
demmiblue Nov 23 #74

Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 12:57 PM

1. I hope

They're well aware people are watching them.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 12:58 PM

2. go to youtube for the running comments. pretty awesome

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 12:58 PM

3. Over 5,000 currently watching. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:11 PM

6. 20,000 now. n/t

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:04 PM

4. Shouldn't this be starting now?? nt

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:05 PM

5. It is sad the gop has so corrupted our government that

We actually feel the need to watch something like this.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:12 PM

7. Open in new window and join the chat to spam "CERTIFY"!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:14 PM

9. Why?

It won't impact the vote or the public perception of the vote.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:15 PM

10. Because it's fun.

They are watching. They need to know which side they are on.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:12 PM

8. Staff making presentation recommending certification.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:16 PM

11. "The (Election) Bureau has not identified any irregularities"

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:17 PM

12. I can't understand a thing.

It sounds like he is speaking in a foreign language. And. if you don't cover your nose, it's useless to bother.

Our holiday shows are replaced with watching stuff like this. Sigh...

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:19 PM

13. You'd think if you knew the eyes of the nation would be on you,

you would wear a mask that stays up over your nose.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:21 PM

14. Some 800 people signed up to comment. n/t

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:23 PM

15. The people HAVE spoken. Certify it!

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:26 PM

16. Idiots don't know Roberts Rules of Order.

A motion was made, one of the Republicans indicated he didn't want to second it because he wanted discussion on it.

RROO- move, second, discussion vote.

He did, at least, say that he thought their roles as a canvassers were very limited - but he wanted the people who asked to speak to have the opportunity to speak.

(This is the Republican who had not expressed his intentions before - so my guess is the vote will be 3-1)

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:28 PM

17. Aaron Van Langevelde doesn't care about rules.

And he's going to cry if he doesn't get at least a few crazy people on a zoom call announcing their distrust in the system. Even after the board members said an audit can't be done until after the certification.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:39 PM

19. True - but the Democratic Chair

should know - and remind the members - of the rules.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:40 PM

22. I believe that's why they brought in Christopher Thomas.

To explain the process and the power that the board has. They must certify the vote. Period.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:47 PM

27. That's a different process.

Roberts Rules of Order are the rules that govern virtualy all public meetings. The relevant order is someone makes a motion, someone else seconds it, then discussion of the motion takes place, then they vote.

Langevelde was objecting to putting the motion on the floor before discussing it. He wanted discussion before there was a motion, so he was objecting to seconding the motion.

Thomas is there to speak to the legal process. Langevelde seems inclined to go along with the legal process. It will just take time to get through all of those who want to speak - if they decide do listen to them all before someone calls the question.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:40 PM

21. OMG YES I was yelling at the screen.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:49 PM

28. My MIL was a registered parliamentarian -

and the Democratic chair of the local board of elections knows Roberts Rules backwards and forwards (he was also on the faculty at the law school, so I regularly hear the rules at the faculty meetings).

I don't expect everyone to know the perfectly - but anyone chairing a public meeting ought to know the most basic of basic rules.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:32 PM

18. I think this is going to be a very long meeting, given the number of public comments expected...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:44 PM

26. The motion to certify has already been tabled.

They will almost certainly only take a few public comments that have already been vetted. With a few crazy people here or there. There's no way they won't vote on it until hearing all of them, that's insane.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:51 PM

30. It's not tabled. This is the discussion period in the life of a motion.

At some point, someone will call the question - and then they will vote on it.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:51 PM

31. Do you think they'll hear the hundreds of zoom calls first?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:54 PM

32. I hope not.

They aren't obligated to.

But the hopes expressed by the person who made the motion was that the comments be directed to the motion. If they follow that, a lot will be excluded since I would expect them to be directed to the hope for an audit pre-certificaiton.

They will probably have to hear enough to satisfy Langefelde that they aren't being disrespectful to the citizens who have asked to speak.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:54 PM

33. OK...thanks for the info...don't have all day to watch this and concentrate on it...

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:56 PM

34. I've just got it chattering at me in the background.

I would expect it to take a while - just not necessarily 12+ hours worth (at a minute per hopeful citizen).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:21 PM

62. Texas has had in-person pubic comments at the capitol go on until 3 am.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:24 PM

63. They just decided to allow 3 minutes per person.

If there really are 7-800, it will take forever.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:39 PM

20. .

BOARD OF STATE CANVASSERS

Current Members:
Chair: Jeannette Bradshaw - Democrat
Vice-Chair: Aaron Van Langevelde - Republican
Norman D. Shinkle - Republican
Julie Matuzak - Democrat

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:41 PM

23. Michigan really should come up with tie breaking procedure.

As their boards have even number of members, they need to figure out how to break a tie.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:44 PM

25. In the past, the courts have been the tie-breaker.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:42 PM

24. Are they going to make us listen to all 800 people who want to make comments?

Seriously?
Just certify the darn election already.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:10 PM

36. My guess is that once it starts getting repetitive (Michiganders should have their voices heard),

someone will call for the vote.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 01:50 PM

29. It seems so

Ludicrous to give people authority that they don’t understand.
These people are meant to do one thing, certify the election.
They KNOW this is an important function. But they don’t know their legal limits of authority. And they think that if their role is very important that they should be omnipotent.

So frustrating.

And how is it that they are just now looking at all the nuances of the statutes that govern this process? They are just LOOKING to find a way to stop this process using authority they think they have.


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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:06 PM

35. Right

I've heard 4 persons now, all have been excellent in describing the process and the duty and limitations of this board. All of them have made clear that this board doesn't have any power to do anything besides certifying.
The despicable Repubs on this board are clearly stalling.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:11 PM

37. Aaron Van Langevelde (R) seems to be asking questions designed to tell him he has to certify...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:16 PM

38. Interesting interpretation, that makes sense. The older Repub seems pissed though

The two repubs wanted to hear from those waiting to comment and they are certainly getting shamed right now into doing their duty. There seems to be no doubt that they cannot do anything besides certifying.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:46 PM

50. Yep, he is doing it consistently. n/t

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:49 PM

51. Van Langevelde is going to vote for certification.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:21 PM

39. What do they mean?? Critical

Witness!!??

They aren’t a court.

Get on with it!

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:24 PM

40. The one R dude clearly doesn't know his job.

He's asking about whether a certain "witness" has been "summoned."

"A critical witness in my estimation, guys. Just so you know."


It has been made clear that he has no decision-making role in this process, and yet he wants to be some kind of judge in the matter.

Typical R arrogance!

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Response to Sogo (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:25 PM

41. Yup! Nt

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:32 PM

42. Ugh, the GOP chair. n/t

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:34 PM

43. She's partisan.

Hopefully we will still get a 3-1 vote, at least.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:35 PM

45. How long do they get to talk?

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:35 PM

44. Laura Cox, head of MI GOP, now pushing lie that GOP challengers were treated poorly by Black...

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:38 PM

46. Is his last name "Spies"?

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:40 PM

47. This moron just said "threatening" the board that they must certify is a "straw man"

HAHAHAHAHA is this dude serious???? Does he not know what straw man means???

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:41 PM

48. John James' attorney is very grating.

Spittle is flying.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:42 PM

49. They don't want to certify, but they must, so they want to delay.

Just delay until the deadline is met, without reason or cause. They just want to delay for the 40 days, then do their required duty.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:50 PM

52. This Spies guy is a real

Piece of work.

Aaron Van Langerveld (?) is standing strong. I hope he keeps his vote in the yes column.

I think he is asking Spies the questions to make the issue very clear as to the statute.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 02:53 PM

53. "Ascertain and determine"

Gee, if he wants to take such a literal and infantile meaning of those words, it seems the board can just declare any candidate the winner regardless of the votes or results from the counties.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:00 PM

54. Janice Winfrey is kicking Shinkle's pasty, fat ass.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:07 PM

56. I thoroughly enjoyed that. 😃

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:05 PM

55. Monica Palmer is up.

Racist asshole.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #55)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:08 PM

57. Is she backtracking?

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Response to nolabear (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:10 PM

58. Yes she is somewhat

And she also has no idea what the laws are. She admits that. How did she get this position????

Now they are talking about how they’ve been threatened. How is this relevant to the procedings???? The death threats should be sent to the FBI.

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Response to Takket (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:13 PM

59. I know. I can't decide if they really think they get more abuse

or if they’re just manipulating.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:17 PM

60. Whooee! Who is that woman ripping Spanky a new one?

Audio difficulties? Not from where I am!

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Response to nolabear (Reply #60)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:19 PM

61. She took the gloves off!

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:26 PM

64. Colback is a real piece, isn't he?

GOD I’m sick of obnoxious, entitled, batshit crazy white men.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:29 PM

65. Patrick Colbeck:

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #65)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:32 PM

67. I've never been happier to see anyone dismissed.

“Yaddayaddaschrieksnarkscreamyadda...”

“Your time is up.”

“You cheated me out of time!”

“Thank you and goodbye.”

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #65)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:38 PM

69. AG Nessel chimes in:

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #65)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:44 PM

70. Excellent! Thanks!

So this just reinforces what an a$$ this guy is.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:31 PM

66. This Patrick Colbeck

Guy is another piece of work.

This ‘chain of custody’ / computer connectivity nonsense is just a smoke screen.
If it was of any merit, he would have sent it to the Attorney General.
He did not.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #66)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:37 PM

68. They think they've got a wide audience today,

So time to let the CTs rip....

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:53 PM

71. If there's a tie, I think it goes to the legislature.

That's full of Republicans.

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Response to zanana1 (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:57 PM

72. No, it doesn't,

there are at least 2 options if it's a 2-2 tie, the court would require that it be certified or the court would certify it or Gov. Whitmer could remove those that don't do their mandatory duty and replace them with those that will, which is in the law.

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Response to zanana1 (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:58 PM

73. It goes to court

The court will then be expected to order the board to certify.

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Response to Sogo (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2020, 03:59 PM

74. Buckle in for a long evening.

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