How often do you encounter assistant professors with JDs who go by Dr. professionally?

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

[msongs]

1. she sure can stuff a lot of words into a tiny short time period. nt

[YDogg]

2. Only in an Academic Setting ...

... but, yeah, she's a stooge.

[paleotn]

22. Especially NOT in an academic setting.

She's NOT a PhD. She didn't EARN the title. She stole it. At best she's Instructor Ellis, Ms. Ellis, or better yet, dumb fucking jackass.

[YDogg]

55. I agree with you.

But *I* have only seen this in an academic setting, not that it is proper. I know at least three profs at a local college with JDs - no MD, PhD, or EdD - who use the title "Dr."

[PCIntern]

68. I've only been around for 67 years and

I have never heard of a JD being referred to as Doctor. Ever.

[yardwork]

59. Read the twitter thread! They really, really laugh at her.

[Skittles]

3. what's up with that vaselined-lens?

[NightWatcher]

7. It's crack smoke. Didn't you hear the stoned shit coming out her mouth, like "landslide for trump"

[BainsBane]

4. I know professors with JDs

and going by Dr. is common in academia, if they have a PhD. If they are a law professor with just a JD, then it might be odd. I'm not sure about that though, not having spent time in a law school.

ETA: I missed the tweet. Of course Trumpsters are frauds.

[lunasun]

12. + same It indicates a PhD

The next First Lady is often referred to as
Dr. Jill Biden do I have a problem with that?
No

[Shrike47]

19. Isn't she a medical doctor? They use the title; lawyers don't.

[drray23]

25. no. she has a phd in education.nt.

[Ms. Toad]

39. Not that I could find.

Her linked in account and her Amazon author's page list only a BA and a JD.

[drray23]

43. We are talking about Jill Biden.

She got a PhD in education in 2007 from the university of Delaware.

[Ms. Toad]

46. Ok. I got lost in the sub-threads.

I thought you were talking about Jenna Ellis in her academic setting.

[greenjar_01]

47. Jill Biden has an EdD, not a PhD

Just sayin'...

[drray23]

49. they are still referred to as Dr. D stands for Doctor.nt.

[greenjar_01]

51. Sure, but it's a different degree

Just being accurate here.

[PCIntern]

69. Yes. And she is entitled to use the appellation Dr

As befits her degree.

[greenjar_01]

71. Oy vey

The person I'm responding to said this, right there, in text: "She got a PhD in education in 2007 from the university of Delaware."

She did not. She earned an EdD in Education. That's all I'm saying.

[PCIntern]

76. Yes. No argument.

First Lady: Oy

Second Lady: Oy yai yoy

First Lady: Oy yai yoy yai yoy

Second Lady: I thought we weren’t going to talk about the children.

[former9thward]

70. So is the D in JD.

But only a MD should be putting Dr. in front of their name.

[yardwork]

60. Where did Ellis study for her JD?

I noticed it wasn't mentioned in her bio at Colorado Christian College or whatever it's called. I've never seen an academic bio that didn't mention where degrees were awarded. Weird.

Lots of sentences about the biblical law worldview, though.

[FakeNoose]

73. That's a good question, here's another

What kind of accreditation does "Colorado Christian College" have? Wikipedia has a listing for Colorado Christian University (not College) and it looks skeevy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Christian_University

Lots of mergings and buyouts, name changes, etc. but hey - they've got a football team.
Nothing mentioned about a law school though, accredited or not.

[lunasun]

27. NO She is not any kind of medical doctor!!

[Ptah]

36. When did she receive a medical degree?

[treestar]

79. It may not be uniform, but in law school they are called Professor

not Doctor.

[drray23]

5. all of them ?

in an official bio, the title Dr would be used. I am one of them ( Physics) and while I dont introduce myself or insist in using Dr in everyday's life a typical bio or introductions before a talk will use that.

[Nevilledog]

11. In 27 years of practice I've never known someone with just a JD go by the title Dr.

[drray23]

15. are you teaching ?

we are talking about somebody in an academic setting ( assistant professor) . That would be common there. Of course a regular practicing attorney is unlikely to do so.

[Nevilledog]

21. No, I had and know lots of law professors and they do not use Dr.

[drray23]

23. i dont go around calling myself Dr either

but if its in a bio before a talk its a given whomever writes it to introduce me will use Dr. Its standard practice in my field. Many not for law scholars ?

[ProfessorGAC]

66. I Didn't Even List It On My Business Card

And, where would i stop?
BS, MS, PhD, MS, MBA?
Would be kind of ridiculous.
And, NOBODY called me doctor!

[llmart]

48. I've worked at both a university and a law school.

The professors at the university occasionally use Dr. but not all of them do. At the law school none of them went by the term "Dr."

[pnwmom]

30. "Any lawyer who calls himself Doctor should get punched in the mouth."

(In academia, most lawyers with JD's call themselves Professors, like everyone else.)

https://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/any-lawyer-who-calls-himself-doctor-like-a-ph-d-should-get-punched-in-the-mouth/

[drray23]

32. yes i missed the fact she does not have a PhD too. just a JD.

many law professors do have PhD's as well.

[pnwmom]

34. And "Professor" is a perfectly respectable title. For a PhD it's actually higher status than Dr.

because it's a lot easier to get a PHD than a job as a professor.

[drray23]

35. for sure. Interestingly enough in Germany

my collegues who are german and are professors there are called Herr Pr. Dr. ( Physics) so they tack both titles into one.. 😁

[Ms. Toad]

72. Not that many.

I've encountered encountered one.

[Nevilledog]

33. Ha!

[Ms. Toad]

42. Nope.

Law faculty (regardless of what level - visiting, assistant, associate, full professor) don't call themselves Dr, absent a Phd in somethign else.

Even in a a non-law academic setting, I've never known anyone other than a PhD, MD or DO call themselves Dr.

[StarfishSaver]

57. I am a law professor. Law professors are NEVER called "Dr" unless we have a PhD

We are always referred to as "Professor."

[yardwork]

61. Not common at any leading academic institution.

People with MDs and (some) people with PhDs refer to themselves as Dr., but I've never, ever seen somebody with just a JD refer to themselves as Dr.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Never.

Technically I suppose anyone with a J.D. degree could use "Dr." since it's a juris doctor degree. But none of my law school professors ever went by Dr., either in person or in their CVs. It seems awfully pretentious - but then, consider the source.

[Shrike47]

20. Neither did mine. They were Mr. or Ms.

[Ms. Toad]

44. That's unusual -

I'm a dean, rather than a faculty member, and I still get called Professor all the time. About half my students call me by my first name, a quarter call me professor, and the remaining quarter call me dean. I don't recall ever being called Mr. or Ms. (or Dr.)

[elleng]

8. I don't recall seeing any attorneys referring to themselves as Dr.

[drray23]

9. yes but in an academic setting ( assistant professor) its common in bio.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. Those are Ph.D.s. It's not commonly done with J.D.s, even in academia.

Lawyers who want to be called "Doctor" are rare and are generally considered to be pretentious dickwads. My law school professors were called Mr. or Ms. or Professor. Never "Doctor."

[drray23]

28. if she does not have a PhD its weird I agree.nt.

[Ms. Toad]

45. She doesn't, as near as I can tell.

It's not listed in her linked-in account or her Amazon author's page.

[llmart]

52. Not in a law school.

Not one of the professors at the law school where I worked referred to themselves as Dr.

[StarfishSaver]

64. No, it's not common at all, especially in an academic setting

Law professors are NEVER called "Dr." unless they have a Ph.D.

[sandensea]

14. +1

It's routine in Latin America for lawyers to be referred to as Dr.

But here? I imagine other lawyers must think she's a pretentious ass.

[zipplewrath]

10. Kinda weird

Anyone with a PhD can use the "Doctor" title, but often don't. In academia it might be more common in strictly academic settings such as formal communications and references. Most JD's tend to use the "esquire" title instead, although technically in an academic setting they are entitled to use Dr. It would be interesting to know exactly the context in which she decided to use the title.

[BainsBane]

26. In Texas

they commonly use the term doctor. In MN, rarely.

[treestar]

80. I had a mentor of the old fashioned variety

who said it was not proper for female lawyers to use "Esq." which was inherently male. Females should be Jane Lawyer, Attorney-at-law!

I usually don't even bother with either.

[The Genealogist]

13. Only one I can think of is local to me

He is a lawyer...AND a surgeon. That's his schtick.

[Shrike47]

16. I have never met an attorney, professor or not, who used doctor, including a Master of Laws I know.

[sandensea]

17. +1

Only in Latin America.

And she ain't Latin.

[marybourg]

29. Germany and Italy, too.

Frau Doctor and Dottora( something like that)

[sandensea]

40. Certo!

I imagine that's where Latin Americans get the custom.

I can tell you that lawyers down there love being called Doctor at every possible opportunity.

Even presidents, if they happen to be lawyers, expect it in the intros (and with a little added emphasis).

El Señor Presidente de la Nación, Doctor ....

[paleotn]

18. That drives my better half nuts...

She's at best, Instructor Ellis. More correctly, Ms. Ellis. PhD is earned with blood, sweat and tears. I know. I was here when my wife earned hers. It was a hell of a fight. She wanted to quit several times, but sucked up and and did it. But frauds like Ellis, a "Christian attorney", whatever the fuck that is, wants to steal it. These people are beyond pathetic. Trash. The absolute worst of us. After Jan 20, can we deport all of their sorry asses to Russia? Please?

[rsdsharp]

31. I was told in law school (although I didn't research it) that it is an ethical violation

to refer to oneself as “doctor” with just a JD.

The degree is equivalent to an LL B — a Bachelor of Laws Degree. It’s my understanding that the LL B was phased out in the US and replaced with the JD, because holders of JDs were being paid lower salaries in nonlegal workplaces than holders of Masters or PhDs.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. I don't remember hearing that (it might be a newer rule), but it's just not done,

never has been, AFAIK, and maybe because the JD is the replacement for the LL.B.

[rsdsharp]

38. I don't know if it's really a rule, but if it is, it can't be

too new. I started law school 36 years ago.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. I finished it 39 years ago. It might be a rule in some states and not others.

A bit of a Google produced this:

...the appellation of juris doctor is of fairly recent vintage. In 1969, as more law schools were phasing out bachelor of law (LL.B.) degrees in favor of the increasingly popular J.D., the ABA’s Committee on Professional Ethics (which later became the Standing Committee on Ethics and Professional Responsibility) issued an opinion advising lawyers not to refer to themselves as doctors. In ABA Formal Opinion 321, the com­mittee said that its longstanding position was derived from prohibitions against “self-laudation” set forth in the ABA Canons of Ethics.

Less than a year later, however, the ethics committee reversed course in light of the newly adopted ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility. Disciplinary Rule 2-102 permitted a J.D. or LL.M. (master of law) recipient to use doctor with his or her name, the committee concluded in ABA Informal Opinion 1152 (1970).

Several states concurred with the ABA’s new position, while others held to the prior rule. A Maine ethics opinion issued in 1979, for instance, advised lawyers that “the title doctor is almost exclusively confined to certain health professionals and, to some extent, academics with a Ph.D. degree and clergymen,” so a layperson who heard a lawyer referred to as doctor would assume that the lawyer was qualified in one of those professions.

The ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, which superseded the Model Code in 1983, don’t directly address a lawyer’s use of doctor, nor do most legal ethics codes at the state level. As a result, guidance on the issue continues to come primarily from state ethics opinions.

The rest: https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/lawyers_are_doctors_too

[StarfishSaver]

77. I know several older attorneys whose LLBs were converted to JDs

Their law schools issued them new diplomas showing the JD. They have them displayed alongside their original LLB diploma.

[Ms. Toad]

50. Not as far as I know.

It is unethical to imply you are licensed if you aren't - so using Esq. would be a big no-no.

[RicROC]

53. Dr. needs to be denoted.

Seems to me that only MD's can use the title Dr. without explanation. Others who normally are called Doctor are required by law to state which discipline in which they hold the doctorate.

For example, an Optometrist is an O.D. Doctor of Optometry, and is respectfully called Doctor. In advertising or business affairs, Dr. Such Andsuch, cannot stand by itself. It must be stated, Dr. Such Andsuch, O.D. or Optometrist. Ways to get around it would be, Dr. Such Andsuch, Family Practice of Optometry.
As long as it is clear, the doctorate is not M.D.

Same thing with dentists, podiatrists, et al.

Germany has a better method instead of all these initials: while in the USA Sidney Feinblatt, M.D. in Germany, would be Dr. med Sidney Feinblatt.

I could envision in the USA:
Dr. dent Shulman
Dr. opt Rodriguez
Dr. pod Hassan

[ecstatic]

54. Isn't being a lawyer enough of an accomplishment?

Why the need to squeeze in additional titles/accolades?

Sounds like someone with serious insecurity issues!

[StarfishSaver]

56. Professors with JDs are called "Professor"

They are never called "Dr." in an academic or professional setting.

[BlueNProud]

58. Where did she get her law degree?

Bio doesn't say.

[yardwork]

62. I want to know that too. And I've never seen an academic bio that omitted that info.

[BlueNProud]

81. Lots of filler in there

[Jersey Devil]

63. It is not all that unusual for a lawyer to call him/her self "doctor"

I never did as a lawyer because I thought it was pretentious, but I know several who did, beginning back in the 70s when the president of the NJBA called himself "doctor" to highlight the fact that lawyers have advanced graduate degrees.

You have to understand that prior to the 60s lawyers did not receive a Juris Doctor degree. Instead they got a Bachelor of Laws degree because going back many years an undergraduate degree was not required to attend law school.

My law partner called himself "doctor" only when calling restaurants to make dinner resevervations, lol.

[StarfishSaver]

65. It is HIGHLY unusual for any lawyer to call themselves "Dr."

And any lawyer who tried to do that in front of any other lawyer would get laughed out of the room.

[Jersey Devil]

67. Been a lawyer for 49 years and know plenty who use the title

Maybe in your area they don't do it but it was pretty common in NJ and the NY metro area. Some lawyers felt they weren't getting enough respect for the advanced degree they had so they started using it when the law school degree changed from a Bachelor of Laws degree to Juris Doctor in the 60s. It never bothered me that they did so and can't understand why it would rankle others since many with doctorates in other fields do it routinely.

[StarfishSaver]

74. I think you're definitely in the minority

And I've spent quite a bit of time in the legal communities in New York and New Jersey - both among practicing lawyers and law professors - and I don't think I have ever encountered a single lawyer who calls themselves "Dr" unless they've earned a PhD. And I doubt ANY lawyer would use "Dr." in an academic setting - at least not at any reputable institution.

Obviously, your experience has been different - but I don't think it's typical.

[Jersey Devil]

75. First I saw using it was "Dr Wolf", President of NJ Bar Assn

As I said, I never used it myself, thought it was pretentious, and yes, few used it though enough that it should not be a surprise to see others doing it. I just don't think it is a big deal whether someone uses the title or not.

[treestar]

78. JDs don't use doctor

even though the degree is a "doctorate." So that's pretentious.