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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:38 AM Nov 2020

Mueller Investigation Prosecutor Calls on Next Attorney General to Investigate, Prosecute Trump: ...


Mueller Investigation Prosecutor Calls on Next Attorney General to Investigate, Prosecute Trump: ‘Mr. Trump’s Criminal Exposure is Clear’

By Charlie NashNov 24th, 2020, 10:03 am

Andrew Weissmann, who served as a senior prosecutor during the 2017 to 2019 Mueller Investigation against President Donald Trump, called on the next attorney general under President-elect Joe Biden to investigate and prosecute Trump.

In a Tuesday article for the New York Times, Weissmann noted that although another investigation into Trump would “further divide the country,” the next attorney general “should investigate Mr. Trump and, if warranted, prosecute him for potential federal crimes.”

“Mr. Trump’s criminal exposure is clear,” Weissmann claimed, adding that they “amassed ample evidence to support a charge that Mr. Trump obstructed justice,” during the Mueller Investigation.

He went on to acknowledge that Trump may “pardon not just his family and friends before leaving office but also himself in order to avoid federal criminal liability,” but argued, “If Mr. Trump bestows such pardons, states like New York should take up the mantle to see that the rule of law is upheld. And pardons would not preclude the new attorney general challenging a self-pardon or the state calling the pardoned friends and family before the grand jury to advance its investigation of Mr. Trump after he leaves office.”

more
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/mueller-investigation-prosecutor-calls-on-next-attorney-general-to-investigate-prosecute-trump-mr-trumps-criminal-exposure-is-clear/
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Mueller Investigation Prosecutor Calls on Next Attorney General to Investigate, Prosecute Trump: ... (Original Post) DonViejo Nov 2020 OP
Yes Skraxx Nov 2020 #1
Divide nothing. Kid Berwyn Nov 2020 #2
Let's hope they also drop the republiCON party. KS Toronado Nov 2020 #21
Absolutely. Kid Berwyn Nov 2020 #52
July 4, 2018 -- 7 Senators and a Representative were in Moscow Ponietz Nov 2020 #60
Putin's coup Eyeball_Kid Nov 2020 #68
Names? Who were the Senators? wnylib Nov 2020 #72
The Prostrate Eight Ponietz Nov 2020 #78
This photo was absolutely chilling. Russia pulled off a coup. BarbD Nov 2020 #88
CAPTION: "Can you believe I just gave a whole bunch of TOP SECRET Israili military secrets... TrollBuster9090 Nov 2020 #91
No trc Nov 2020 #42
Fine, let the Deplorables believe what they want. Kid Berwyn Nov 2020 #50
+1000 triron Nov 2020 #51
Exactly! robbob Nov 2020 #46
Gross criminal dereliction of duty might be a good starting point. Kid Berwyn Nov 2020 #57
Including the ones who wore t-shirts supporting Russia? colorado_ufo Nov 2020 #59
We already know he is Putin's puppet and his base sticks with him. Barbara2423 Nov 2020 #67
Of course his base would need harder evidence of being in Vlad's pocket , I'd expect that. uponit7771 Nov 2020 #80
Willful ignorance orangecrush Nov 2020 #98
Lock him up! soothsayer Nov 2020 #3
"Mr. Trump's criminal exposure is clear." Botany Nov 2020 #4
yes for sure. triron Nov 2020 #24
Trump actively worked with Russia to rig our elections and now we have 1/4 million dead Americans Botany Nov 2020 #28
Kick dalton99a Nov 2020 #5
I recall the policy that the POTUS cannot be indicted treestar Nov 2020 #6
It is an opinion, I don't think it is a policy, and whether its one or not it needs to be scratched Escurumbele Nov 2020 #34
We have this oh so perfect Constitution that lets us remove a corrupt President..... groundloop Nov 2020 #63
Exactly! treestar Nov 2020 #71
No more taking things off the table. No more looking forward/ CrispyQ Nov 2020 #7
I agree. I dislike the language I am hearing about not wanting to be weighed down with Trump crimes. LizBeth Nov 2020 #69
This holds some serious weight. I can't see how Biden's AG can ignore this. Native Nov 2020 #8
I could not agree more. ShazzieB Nov 2020 #61
Yup BarackTheVote Nov 2020 #9
That line should have been drawn in 1865 Ponietz Nov 2020 #11
You right BarackTheVote Nov 2020 #14
Couldn't agree more. better Nov 2020 #18
I'd argue it also hurts our brands BarackTheVote Nov 2020 #22
Too many people still seem to tow that old line-- BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2020 #105
Appeasement has never been a successful policy. BarbD Nov 2020 #89
Gee, Andy. It's a shame you and your colleagues couldn't write this clearly last year n/t DonaldsRump Nov 2020 #10
that is mostly (all?) on Mueller and his not being up to the task Celerity Nov 2020 #32
Nope. Anyone of these people could have resigned and explained why DonaldsRump Nov 2020 #35
I do not think (you can correct me if I am wrong) that it would have been legal for Weissmann to Celerity Nov 2020 #39
He sure could...by going to the House which could give him immunity DonaldsRump Nov 2020 #41
oki, thank you Celerity Nov 2020 #43
No worries DonaldsRump Nov 2020 #70
I agree that Trump should be prosecuted pandr32 Nov 2020 #12
This has to be done. patphil Nov 2020 #13
I am convinced the Constitution dies without justice Ponietz Nov 2020 #58
Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, is it not? OMGWTF Nov 2020 #15
Yes. Volaris Nov 2020 #31
Not necessarily... thesquanderer Nov 2020 #64
How's that States Rights safeinOhio Nov 2020 #16
I agree but you did a disservice to the country with the final report that should have been Pepsidog Nov 2020 #17
That is exactly right DonaldsRump Nov 2020 #38
I don't care if trump tries to pardon himself, or gets Pence to do it. crickets Nov 2020 #19
And prosecute Barr as an accomplice as well! world wide wally Nov 2020 #20
He can not be allowed to walk. nt Hotler Nov 2020 #23
Sounds like a pretty strong suggestion. triron Nov 2020 #25
Joe would win the 2024 election as soon as the guilty verdict Roisin Ni Fiachra Nov 2020 #26
But....but.... BobTheSubgenius Nov 2020 #27
What will divide the country is to not seek accountability, and it will definitely hurt the Escurumbele Nov 2020 #29
Agree! burrowowl Nov 2020 #79
totally agree cynical_idealist Nov 2020 #84
Agree. Once again, I hope for accountability. It does not appear to be Dems forte. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #103
And why wasn't the Mueller team able to accomplished this? 33taw Nov 2020 #30
Maybe just bring back Mueller? zaj Nov 2020 #33
And expose those people who supported Trump and Russia's rat fucking of our elections Botany Nov 2020 #36
Anyone remember what John Bolton said a few months back? ScratchCat Nov 2020 #37
He and his colleagues had their chance eissa Nov 2020 #40
Andrew Weissman for Assistant AG Mr. Ected Nov 2020 #44
Why not AG? triron Nov 2020 #81
I'm kind of partial to Sally Yates - or Preet Bharara Mr. Ected Nov 2020 #83
I like Yates. triron Nov 2020 #86
Mueller is a republican llashram Nov 2020 #45
proper prosecution will create a prophylactic effect available by no other means - there can be no bringthePaine Nov 2020 #47
Well said. c-rational Nov 2020 #85
This is why we need a pit bull prosecutor for AG dlk Nov 2020 #48
If Trump pardons himself before leaving office and SCOTUS rules that he can do that,........... W T F Nov 2020 #49
This is one key to healing. ancianita Nov 2020 #53
KnR...nt N_E_1 for Tennis Nov 2020 #54
He made life miserable for America and the World, now let him feel it. NT. SayItLoud Nov 2020 #55
Fuck their feelings, prosecute. We need boundaries for all. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #56
There's so much more. The obstruction allegations in the Mueller Report is just the beginning. Eyeball_Kid Nov 2020 #62
Bonus: Anyone he pardons may be prevented from taking the fifth in a subsequent investigation n/t thesquanderer Nov 2020 #65
Pardons issued with a "corrupt intent" should be null and void. AmericanCanuck Nov 2020 #66
I have said that I didn't believe the Establishment would go after him, but after the last month OnDoutside Nov 2020 #73
YES! Cha Nov 2020 #74
Bring it on... Blue Owl Nov 2020 #75
AMEN! PROSECUTE FULLY! budkin Nov 2020 #76
That's good, but nothing happened after the Mueller investigation. Why do you napi21 Nov 2020 #77
Your post makes no sense whatsoever. triron Nov 2020 #82
knr triron Nov 2020 #87
Not just the mob boss, but all of his enablers, the "we were just following orders" cRew. Lock him up. Nov 2020 #90
Not sure how far this should go. triron Nov 2020 #94
It should go everywhere where crimes were committed. Lock him up. Nov 2020 #95
I'll tell you how I'D like to see it play out. Biden nominates some 'centrist' AG, and while the TrollBuster9090 Nov 2020 #92
I hope the megalomaniac tries to pardon himself as opposed to resigning ecstatic Nov 2020 #93
Any nation which can be "further divided" by the prosecutiion of actual violations soldierant Nov 2020 #96
This! Botany Nov 2020 #97
I see obstacles bucolic_frolic Nov 2020 #99
A full impartial investigation by the DOJ must proceed into what the Trump administration did UCmeNdc Nov 2020 #100
Hmm. Iggo Nov 2020 #101
It was funny how Mueller seemed to cave UCmeNdc Nov 2020 #102
Mueller was 'Barred'. triron Nov 2020 #104
Sadly, nothing will happen. nt Hotler Nov 2020 #106
I agree Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2020 #107

Kid Berwyn

(14,800 posts)
2. Divide nothing.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:41 AM
Nov 2020

When the investigation reveals him to be Putin’s puppet, Trump’s supporters will drop him like he’s hot.

Kid Berwyn

(14,800 posts)
52. Absolutely.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:02 PM
Nov 2020

If the FBI investigates just what we civilians have learned in the last four years, Trump is is in real trouble. His enablers in the GOP should be investigated as co-conspirators.

In the Oval Office in the merry month of May 2017

President Trump gestures to Russia's ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak, as he speaks to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the Oval Office on Wednesday, May 10, 2017. (Alexander Shcherbak/TASS/Getty Images)

“I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job," Trump said, according to The Times. "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.”



"I'm not under investigation," he added.

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/10/527755991/trump-meets-with-russias-lavrov-at-the-white-house-today

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-nut-job-james-comey-russia-2017-5


Ponietz

(2,937 posts)
78. The Prostrate Eight
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:47 PM
Nov 2020

The Prostrate Eight

Senators:
Ron Johnson (Wis.)
Richard C. Shelby (Ala.)
Steve Daines (Mont.),
John Hoeven (N.D.)
John Neely Kennedy (La.)
Jerry Moran (Kan.)
John Thune (S.D.)
and
Representative Kay Granger (Tex.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eight-republicans-spent-july-4-in-russia-where-are-the-fireworks/2018/07/06/beae30be-812e-11e8-b658-4f4d2a1aeef1_story.html|

BarbD

(1,192 posts)
88. This photo was absolutely chilling. Russia pulled off a coup.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:38 PM
Nov 2020

Putin sowed chaos both internally and internationally. Trump was his puppet. It will take years of Democratic government for us to recover.

TrollBuster9090

(5,953 posts)
91. CAPTION: "Can you believe I just gave a whole bunch of TOP SECRET Israili military secrets...
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:53 PM
Nov 2020
...to THIS ugly fuck? Hahaha! Can you BELIEVE what a FUCKING MORON I am!? Hahahahah!"

trc

(823 posts)
42. No
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:46 PM
Nov 2020

It will all be "fake news". Take these no thinking rethugs at face value. They believe this election was stolen, they will also believe that any evidence against 45 will be made up. Let the states go after trump, keep the feds out of it.

Kid Berwyn

(14,800 posts)
50. Fine, let the Deplorables believe what they want.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:59 PM
Nov 2020

While many remain in office, I don’t want them to influence policy in the slightest, let alone run, any part of the federal, state or local government. To do that requires the nation face the truth about what a Trump has done.

And if their brains are so warped and fried they are incapable of grasping reality, too bad so sad. The courts, businesses, academia and all in the reality based community can put Trumpism in the ash heap of history and Trump in jail where he so rightly belongs.

robbob

(3,522 posts)
46. Exactly!
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:52 PM
Nov 2020

Leaving him out there to start a new media empire (ROTFLMAO!!!) or just continue tweeting his petty grievances is what will further divide the country. tRump will NEVER admit he lost the election, he will continue to peddle deep state CT’s until the day he dies. He needs to go down, hard.

That being said, I think more obscure crimes like obstruction of justice will be a hard sell to his brain dead followers. Show them the grift, stealing money from the voters, or TAKING money from other governments and it might finally wake some of them up.

Kid Berwyn

(14,800 posts)
57. Gross criminal dereliction of duty might be a good starting point.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:08 PM
Nov 2020

Not China. It’s “TRUMP’S PLAGUE.”



He is responsible, no matter what — or how much — he says.

Then they may better hear the complex parts...

“Say hello to your boy,” Trump said, “Special guy.”

“Your kids have been very nice to him,” Kennedy replied.

“Well,” Trump said, “they love him, and they love him in New York.”

Source: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/donald-trump-supreme-court-236925

uponit7771

(90,302 posts)
80. Of course his base would need harder evidence of being in Vlad's pocket , I'd expect that.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:51 PM
Nov 2020

It's their denying of reality when it comes to the associations with Russians that floor me, they even act like Don Jr didn't meet with Russians in Trump tower !!

orangecrush

(19,423 posts)
98. Willful ignorance
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:19 AM
Nov 2020

They will refuse to look at reality.
I wouldn't waste my time even worrying about his supporters.

Just investigate and prosecute.

Botany

(70,447 posts)
4. "Mr. Trump's criminal exposure is clear."
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:42 AM
Nov 2020

We all need to see the Mueller Report. We can not let "them" keep repeating the lie
that the Mueller Report cleared Trump.

Escurumbele

(3,378 posts)
34. It is an opinion, I don't think it is a policy, and whether its one or not it needs to be scratched
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:39 PM
Nov 2020

It doesn't make sense that the country would have to keep a criminal as president.

As I said in another post...what prevents a corrupt president to rob the country and in the middle of the night fly to some country that has no extradition deals with the USA? Then he gets to live his life in luxury with the money he stole from the country.

We see that happen all the time in countries from Africa, South America, etc. It can happen here too, and I would not be surprised that the destruction trump is doing to the country that benefits Russia/Putin in these last two months may be a way to buy his stay in Russia.

groundloop

(11,514 posts)
63. We have this oh so perfect Constitution that lets us remove a corrupt President.....
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:30 PM
Nov 2020

Oh, never mind.



I guess the people that wrote it didn't consider the fact that half the Senate might be in cahoots with that corrupt President.

CrispyQ

(36,424 posts)
7. No more taking things off the table. No more looking forward/
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:45 AM
Nov 2020

That's how these guys got the idea they could do whatever the fuck they want, cuz they could! Cuz we let them! We have been going along to get along for 40 years.

LizBeth

(9,952 posts)
69. I agree. I dislike the language I am hearing about not wanting to be weighed down with Trump crimes.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 02:05 PM
Nov 2020

I get it but they cannot get away with four years of in our face criminal behavior. And forget this uniting thing, not going to happen. I am so done with democrats not able to do anything and Republicans run rough shod cause not a law, rule or procedure will stand in their way.

And, I have not hear a single real life Democrat that has been fighting the last 4 years to make it to our win say, lets move on. Democratic voters are angry, they want repercussions. Not one wants to "move on".

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
9. Yup
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:49 AM
Nov 2020

Without consequences for criminality, this sort of shit will just happen again and again and again. Our country won’t survive much longer if we continue to place the president above the law. We should have drawn a line in the sand a decade ago with GW, we failed and this is the result: a further unraveling of our national morality. Time to set precedent, it’s long over-due.

Ponietz

(2,937 posts)
11. That line should have been drawn in 1865
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:04 PM
Nov 2020

I don’t know if Mary Surrat was guilty or not, but it sickens me that she hanged when Confederate agitators and leaders just walked away. Kind of like Reality Winner being in prison right now while traitors walk free.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
14. You right
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:09 PM
Nov 2020

The way reconstruction was handled (sabotaged) by Andrew Johnson allowed the Civil War to become a hundred-fifty-year Cold War. And we came really close to losing that Cold War just this year.

better

(884 posts)
18. Couldn't agree more.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:18 PM
Nov 2020

I read an article a while back talking about the balance between rule of law and mutual toleration, and how at several points throughout our history, we have neglected to enforce the rule of law in the hopes of maintaining mutual toleration, as were the cases with regard to Nixon, Reagan, and Bush 43.

But what we must collectively recognize and respond appropriately to is the fact that toleration has not been mutual for well over 2 decades now. Hell, not only have Republicans been opposed to mutual toleration, they have actually done much worse, by consistently demonstrating that they will tolerate unlawful conduct on their side of the aisle, even as they refuse to tolerate, and even relentlessly try to prosecute lawful conduct on ours.

Bottom line, sacrificing enforcement of the rule of law in the interest of mutual toleration is not merely unproductive, it is actually counter-productive, because the toleration is not, and will not be, mutual. And that's not merely conjecture, it's the Republican Party's whole brand, at this point.

And this is made worse by the too frequent impulse on the left to avoid taking actions that might rile up the conservative base, as though there are not entire industries dedicated to the sole purpose of keeping their base riled up, even if they have to invent absurdly farcical things for them to be riled up about to do it.

So yeah, no more going along to get along, because history has shown us unmistakably that it only moves us backwards.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
22. I'd argue it also hurts our brands
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:24 PM
Nov 2020

There are people who look at our letting bygones be bygones with war criminals and political criminals and don’t just think it’s about being gracious in victory and trying to bring the country together—it can also look like collusion and acquiescence even, indeed, tacit PERMISSION to misbehave and erode our democratic institutions.

Hot take: the most successful Republican strategy has been to convince three consecutive generations that the Democrats and Republicans are in cahoots. That narrative fell apart the last four years in a big way thanks to how fucking odious Trump is. But it could rear its head again if we continue to tolerate bad behavior.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
105. Too many people still seem to tow that old line--
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 12:17 PM
Nov 2020

“They’re the same!” “They both do it”.
No, they’re not even comparable.

BarbD

(1,192 posts)
89. Appeasement has never been a successful policy.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:46 PM
Nov 2020

This is not a case of being vindictive. It is a distasteful task that must be done if we want to save our democracy.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
35. Nope. Anyone of these people could have resigned and explained why
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:41 PM
Nov 2020

Instead, they chose to write a book after they allowed Trump an escape hatch via William Barr.

These folks know better: they were all wimps, including Weissmann and his boss.

Celerity

(43,109 posts)
39. I do not think (you can correct me if I am wrong) that it would have been legal for Weissmann to
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:44 PM
Nov 2020

resign and then disclose all the details of an ongoing investigation.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
70. No worries
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 03:44 PM
Nov 2020

Congressional immunity was used to great effect in Watergate. What happened with Russia is so incredible and unlawful that I am outraged when people like Weissmann are now speaking up. There was a time and place to do this, but it is not now. It was in the report. It should have CLEARLY outlined the charges that could be made in unambiguous terms.

And it's Mueller's fault as well as the people that worked for him. Contrast their actions, and failures to act, with how the Watergate Special Prosecution Task Force behaved. They too worried about losing their jobs, and indeed, Archibald Cox, the first Special Prosecutor, was fired and the office was going to be abolished by the Saturday Night Massacre on October 20, 1973. So many the lawyers and staff members showed up to their offices that Saturday night to make sure their files and papers were secured even though the FBI had sealed the offices. You can see a bit of that in the video below.

Those folks were REAL heroes. Mueller and his team were not.

pandr32

(11,555 posts)
12. I agree that Trump should be prosecuted
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:07 PM
Nov 2020

...successfully.
We must make sure we root out those who conspired with him as well.
This can never happen in the U.S. again. It has affected our reputation around the world as well as all the damage it has done to us here at home. No-one will ever trust us again if this is not thoroughly investigated and prosecuted, nor could we withstand another hit of the same.

patphil

(6,150 posts)
13. This has to be done.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:07 PM
Nov 2020

We can't afford to reward Trump's criminal behavior with inaction. That would only embolden the next despot to do even more damage to the nation and the rule of law.
And also leave him free to pursue a 2024 campaign.
Even if he can't be charged on a Federal level, the Justice Department should use it's power to unearth evidence of wrongdoing and provide it to any states who want to pursue legal action against Trump, his family, and enablers.

There has to be a full accounting of Trump's illicit actions.

Ponietz

(2,937 posts)
58. I am convinced the Constitution dies without justice
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:12 PM
Nov 2020

Our coalition will collapse and disintegrate, and a ‘competent’ fascist will take control in 2024.

Volaris

(10,266 posts)
31. Yes.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:35 PM
Nov 2020

(On Edit) on the reasoning that if you were innocent, the pardon would be unnecessary in the first place.

So let donald pardon himself for EVERYTHING, and then let NYS and Manhattan DAs take him to the fucking cleaners since a lot of those federal crimes are also illegal at the state and district level (and no 5th amendment since he already admitted guilt via accepting his own pardon).

thesquanderer

(11,972 posts)
64. Not necessarily...
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:37 PM
Nov 2020

see https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-presidential-pardons/2018/06/06/18447f84-69ba-11e8-bf8c-f9ed2e672adf_story.html

Myth No. 4: Pardons are only for guilty people; accepting one is an admission of guilt.

In 1915, the Supreme Court wrote in Burdick v. United States that a pardon “carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.” Over the years, many have come to see a necessary relationship between a pardon and guilt. Ford carried the Burdick quote in his wallet, defending the Nixon pardon by noting that it established Nixon’s guilt. More recently, MSNBC host Ari Melber taunted Arpaio by saying he had admitted he was guilty when he accepted Trump’s pardon.

But Burdick was about a different issue: the ability to turn down a pardon. The language about imputing and confessing guilt was just an aside — what lawyers call dicta. The court meant that, as a practical matter, because pardons make people look guilty, a recipient might not want to accept one. But pardons have no formal, legal effect of declaring guilt.

Indeed, in rare cases pardons are used to exonerate people. This was Trump’s rationale for posthumously pardoning boxer Jack Johnson, the victim of a racially based railroading in 1913. Ford pardoned Iva Toguri d’Aquino (World War II’s “Tokyo Rose”) after “60 Minutes” revealed that she was an innocent victim of prosecutors who suborned perjured testimony in her treason case. President George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger because he thought the former defense secretary, indicted in the Iran-contra affair, was a victim of “the criminalization of policy differences.” If the president pardons you because he thinks you are innocent, what guilt could accepting that pardon possibly admit?

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
17. I agree but you did a disservice to the country with the final report that should have been
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:15 PM
Nov 2020

clearly and unambiguously written. Something like there is sufficient evidence to indict and try Trump for Obstruction etc. Instead it was written in wishy washy language that Barr was able to cut and paste lines to confuse most of the public into thinking Trump did nothing wrong. Only those paying close attention to the case could understand Mueller’s conclusions.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
38. That is exactly right
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:43 PM
Nov 2020

Mueller and Weissmann and all the rest of the "Bobby 3-Sticks" crew could have easily come to the point. They are all highly educated lawyers. As I said in an earlier post, it's a shame Weissmann and his colleagues didn't write so clearly a year and half ago.

crickets

(25,952 posts)
19. I don't care if trump tries to pardon himself, or gets Pence to do it.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:20 PM
Nov 2020
Weissmann concluded, “In short, being president should mean you are more accountable, not less, to the rule of law.”


Yes. Strike down any attempt at a pardon. Not only should it be made clear that no president is allowed to self-pardon, no president should get a pardon. That should be one of the many things a president gives but never receives. No president should ever, ever again feel that he can away with anything as long as he has his get out of jail free card.

Despite the fact that the Mueller Investigation ultimately found no evidence of Russian collusion


Oh, we could go on all day about what that sentence really means, but there should be a proper investigation into collusion. The Mueller Investigation ended up being less than comprehensive in some ways, to put it kindly, and we have yet to see the entire report. Do over on that one, big time.

Go after him for federal crimes. I'm pretty sure trump's on the hook for international crimes. Throw the book at him again and again, every single book we can find. We will never again know true peace as a country if we don't.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,560 posts)
27. But....but....
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:32 PM
Nov 2020

"Total exoneration!" Isn't that what he said? They can't parse the difference between being compelled by the evidence to indict, and discretionary abeyance.

I'm not sure anything could widen or deepen the gulf between red and blue right now, except a shooting war.

Escurumbele

(3,378 posts)
29. What will divide the country is to not seek accountability, and it will definitely hurt the
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:34 PM
Nov 2020

Democratic party.

I believe that I am correct in saying that a minimum of 50% of Democrats are still genuinely pissed off by the fact that Obama decided to "Move Forward". The Bush administration should have been investigated, the damage they did to our country, and the World, is still alive and trump is a result of it. Because Obama let Bush and company go easy allowed people like trump to seek office, it allowed the republicans to continue breaking the democratic system, and THAT has divided the country.

All these criminals must be investigated and if/when found they committed crimes against the country they must be made to pay.

I am so sick of hearing that investigating these crooks will divide the country, I think that is a meme set out by the criminals themselves to try to convince people to not support investigations. This needs to stop!

One more thing that makes me sick is this talk about trump preparing for a run in 2024...WHAT? He needs to prepare to fight in the courts for all his crimes, and if found guilty he MUST go to jail. This SOB has no future in politics, so stop "predicting" what he is going to do in politics or as a "business man", we all no he IS NOT a business man, he is a fraud and a crook.

burrowowl

(17,632 posts)
79. Agree!
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:50 PM
Nov 2020

"I am so sick of hearing that investigating these crooks will divide the country, I think that is a meme set out by the criminals themselves to try to convince people to not support investigations. This needs to stop!"
I agree, this country is already divided so prosecute the criminals!

cynical_idealist

(359 posts)
84. totally agree
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:39 PM
Nov 2020

add 250000 to 300000 cases of manslaughter by depraved indifference

And that huge list of all the other crimes against our nation and humanity

33taw

(2,436 posts)
30. And why wasn't the Mueller team able to accomplished this?
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:34 PM
Nov 2020

We have a lot on the plate right now. This would not be my top priority.

Botany

(70,447 posts)
36. And expose those people who supported Trump and Russia's rat fucking of our elections
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:42 PM
Nov 2020
https://gregolear.substack.com/p/sleeper-cell-the-fourth-of-july-traitors

IN 2018, EIGHT REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS celebrated the Fourth of July in Moscow, Russia: Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, who led the delegation, along with Senators Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, John Neely Kennedy of Louisiana, Steve Daines of Montana, North Dakota’s John Hoeven, Jerry Moran of Kansas, South Dakota’s John Thune, and Rep. Kay Granger of the 12th District of Texas. The ostensible reason for the trip was “engagement”—the same tired excuse Senator Rand Paul routinely provides to justify his own shadowy meetings with our enemies.

ScratchCat

(1,977 posts)
37. Anyone remember what John Bolton said a few months back?
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:43 PM
Nov 2020

That there were things under "foreign policy" that Trump had done that Bolton said were "clearly more impeachable" than the Ukraine scam he was trying to pull?

There is clearly "more" than what was investigated under the Mueller Report concerning Trump and crimes. For instance, I suspect we will find out that the intelligence agencies were told to NOT warn Khashogi of the threat against him, that Trump/Kushner were paid handsomely for not making hay over it and I bet there is much more involving UAE, Saudi and Turkey arm's deals.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
40. He and his colleagues had their chance
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:44 PM
Nov 2020

to do this and they let us all down. Guilty (most likely) or not, trump won’t be held accountable for his actions, and that’s on Mueller and his team.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
83. I'm kind of partial to Sally Yates - or Preet Bharara
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:19 PM
Nov 2020

But any of the 3 would be more than capable.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
45. Mueller is a republican
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:51 PM
Nov 2020

and the report ended with no consequence to the orange menace. What trump did to this country, up to and past Putin's vote-rigging of our election for him in 2016 will be decades sorting out. GOP and republicans are all cowards in their enabling the viciousness and lawbreaking of trump, miller, ivanka, jarad for 4 long years of a rampage through our democracy.

bringthePaine

(1,727 posts)
47. proper prosecution will create a prophylactic effect available by no other means - there can be no
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:52 PM
Nov 2020

"forward motion" without righting the judicial ship of state; legal accountability simply must, therefore, be imposed for the sake of future Americans' belief in justice and democracy, as inseparable elements of the republic; we cannot abide, nor long survive, rampant criminality as now breeds within the White House - we must insist the highest price be paid by those responsible for such traitorous perfidy

dlk

(11,514 posts)
48. This is why we need a pit bull prosecutor for AG
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:58 PM
Nov 2020

We don’t really know the full breadth and depth of criminal activity from the Trump administration that was carried out behind closed doors. What we’ve already seen out in the open is outrageous enough. If Republicans don’t experience the pain of accountability, they will take the lack of prosecution as tacit approval on our part. There is no moving forward and letting bygones be bygones, without permanent damage to the rule of law and the continuation of our republic.

W T F

(1,146 posts)
49. If Trump pardons himself before leaving office and SCOTUS rules that he can do that,...........
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:58 PM
Nov 2020

Joe Biden can order the illegal executions of the conservative justices on the bench and pardon himself too.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,429 posts)
62. There's so much more. The obstruction allegations in the Mueller Report is just the beginning.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:30 PM
Nov 2020

Were prosecutions to go forward without political interference, Trump and his family of grifters will be penniless in less than two years, and we'd have plenty of reasons to renew our faith in the Rule of Law.

OnDoutside

(19,948 posts)
73. I have said that I didn't believe the Establishment would go after him, but after the last month
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 05:19 PM
Nov 2020

especially, I don't think they have any choice but "Get to the bottom of the matter".

napi21

(45,806 posts)
77. That's good, but nothing happened after the Mueller investigation. Why do you
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:28 PM
Nov 2020

think something will happen now?

Lock him up.

(6,920 posts)
90. Not just the mob boss, but all of his enablers, the "we were just following orders" cRew.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:52 PM
Nov 2020
All those who obeyed his illegal orders of not complying with duely issued legally-binding subpoenas, all the way down to the officers who separated children from their parents and stored them in CAGES.

The whole cabal of the "we were just following orders" cRew (even if they OBVIOUSLY were illegal).

Otherwise, Justice is not done and will never be.


TrollBuster9090

(5,953 posts)
92. I'll tell you how I'D like to see it play out. Biden nominates some 'centrist' AG, and while the
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:57 PM
Nov 2020

...and while the Republican Senate is trying to block it...Biden appoints Wissmann as the ACTING A.G.. While Weissmann is the acting AG he appoints a special prosecutor to look into Trump Administration era crimes.

But Weissmann won't be acting AG for long, because his very presence as head of the DoJ will scare the crap out of Republicans, and give them incentive to confirm Biden's AG nominee double quick.

Then, when Weissmann is free, the HOUSE can start up a Trump Administration era crimes commission, and hire WEISSMANN as their lead investigator.

ecstatic

(32,653 posts)
93. I hope the megalomaniac tries to pardon himself as opposed to resigning
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:06 PM
Nov 2020

in order for Pence to pardon him. At least that pardon would be easier to toss out. The DOJ already said that presidents can't pardon themselves.

soldierant

(6,791 posts)
96. Any nation which can be "further divided" by the prosecutiion of actual violations
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 12:27 AM
Nov 2020

of laws of which no one has ever disputed the justice or appropriateness of -

that nation is already beyond salvation.

Count me with those who think such prosecution is absolutely necessary for the wounds of our nation to heal.

bucolic_frolic

(43,058 posts)
99. I see obstacles
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:26 AM
Nov 2020

I fear the DOJ is not a monolith to rule of law that we'd like it to be, or hope that it is. There being Rod Rosensteins, well-meaning and competent, but silently on one side or the other, lurking everywhere. Then there are the fiefdoms sprinkled around the country. You think SDNY doesn't have differences of opinion? Or other major cities?

Pres. Biden may or may not be able to confirm his #1 candidate for AG. He may be forced to operate with a series of acting AG's. He must not become partisan. Plus there will be trump pardons to work around.

i'm not optimistic a lot will get done. It will take 2 years just to restaff and operate normally, but with all the legacy problems and investigations of the Trump era.

UCmeNdc

(9,600 posts)
100. A full impartial investigation by the DOJ must proceed into what the Trump administration did
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:33 AM
Nov 2020

To ignore this criminal activity would invite other future criminals to seek the office of the President Of The United States for the sole purpose to enrich themselves.

President Biden has an obligation to preserve democracy and the rule of law throughout the United States of America. If President Biden "looks the other way" the problems the corrupt Trump administration created would not be solved. In the future another fascist dictator will step forward. Trump exposed this weakness within the US government both with Trump's money grab, and also, Trump's ability to abuse power for his own benefit.

If Biden ignores Trump's crimes and does not let the DOJ do a complete and through independent investigation, and if crimes are found to have been committed by the Trump administration prosecutors are not allowed to proceed, then people will view President Biden as also being corrupt.

The danger for President Biden is Trump can indirectly bring President Biden down to his low corrupt level by not investigating everything with an independent DOJ fully. Perception is everything. Biden has to emphasize his honesty. Investigating Trump by an independent DOJ prosecutor is the honest thing to do.

Iggo

(47,534 posts)
101. Hmm.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:12 AM
Nov 2020

I hope that works better than when I called on the Mueller Investigation Prosecutor to do the same.

UCmeNdc

(9,600 posts)
102. It was funny how Mueller seemed to cave
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:24 AM
Nov 2020

It was like Mueller wasn't independent anymore. Almost like Mueller was threatened by Donald Trump in some manner?

I mean who writes such a cryptic final report that screams guilty of this and that but refuses to say it outloud? Almost like many of the other Trump subordinates act.

In other words, Trump used his power of the presidency to threaten Mueller in a way that we will never know about.

Glenn Kirschner would make a great special prosecutor!

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