About trump pardoning himself...

[TreasonousBastard]

Been reading about this with people who know a lot more about it than I do.

One school of thought is that he can because it's not specifically forbidden. This is a weak argument that ignores both originalist theory and other readings of the Constitution. It would be like a judge hearing a case against himself.

More common is the idea that a pardon is transitive- it must have a donor and a recipient, and donor and recipient cannot be the same person. Nixon thought of pardoning himself, and decided it would be too tricky and dangerous, and so Ford did the dirty job.

Since no President has ever tried it, should this one try it it would immediately hit the courts, and we can only guess how that would end. One fine mess while the courts play with it.

One thing that would not change is that presidential pardons are for federal crimes, so he would have to deal with several states prosecuting him, and who knows whether, say, the Governor of NY could pardon him, or would want to.

[Thekaspervote]

1. Neil Katyal President Obama's solicitor says he doesn't think he can

One professional opinion..sites what you said in the first paragraph

[Cha]

2. TY for this TB... I'm guessing from

what I've read is that trump is scared to ballistic pieces about the state crimes in New York.

[patricia92243]

3. What is Trump charged with on a Federal level? He can't pardon

himself ahead of time nor can he pardon himself on state charges.

The pardon has to be now on Federal crimes he is charged with now. He has done a bunch of illegal stuff, but has he actually been charged?

[Princess Turandot]

5. Ford's pardon of Nixon covered any crimes he committed while president w/o any actual charges..

Nixon had not been charged with a crime, much less indicted. His pardon has no bearing on the question of self-pardoning. But pardons for past federal crimes don't need to be specific.

https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/740061.asp

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.

[Captain Zero]

6. Possible Sealed indictments

with him as co-conspirator, etc.
He was immune while in office.
The indictments could be unsealed as early as the last week of January.

[DonaldsRump]

8. Sealed indictments from where?

I would have loved for Mueller to have had a sealed indictment against Trump when he ceased being President. However, I seem to recall that there are no sealed indictments from Mueller, but I may be wrong (and hope that I am!)

Are you referring to other investigations?

[Marcuse]

10. "Individual A" in US vs Michael Cohen

[DonaldsRump]

12. Ok, thanks.

I would really love for there to be one relating to Russia, but I guess not.

[greyl]

4. Right, the DOJ post-it note about not prosecuting sitting presidents expires 1/21. nt

[moonscape]

7. The odds of Cuomo wanting to pardon him

I’d put at roughly sub-zero.

[DonaldsRump]

9. I find it curious that Trump moved his residence to Florida from New York

Did he ever explain why?

I thought it might be related to the fact that if he were criminally charged by another state, it might not be so easy to extradite him from Florida to another state.

Happy to stand corrected, but it was an odd move to me for a lifelong resident of NY to suddenly declare residency in FL, especially while President.

[moonscape]

11. I think it was mostly about taxes. Although

we know he wasn’t paying them, he’ll have to play it straighter now. No taxes in FL vs high NYS and NYC ones. He also avoids the NY estate tax, or his precious Ivanka will.

[Squinch]

20. Also, people in NY hate him.

[Solomon]

21. Running to Florida won't stop a NY prosecution anymore than a NY bank robber fleeing to Florida.

[keithbvadu2]

13. If Trump pardons himself, he supposedly cannot take the fifth if testifying about someone else on fe

If Trump pardons himself, he supposedly cannot take the fifth if testifying about someone else on federal charges.

Or if Pence pardons him.

[Solomon]

22. He could take the 5th on any testimony that would subject him to a state prosecution federal pardon

notwithstanding.

[beachbumbob]

14. The gamble for trump would be with the Supreme Court invalidating

his self pardon and then trump is 100% exposed to Federal indictments. Is that a risk a coward is willing to take? There would be no do over for trump. I highly doubt his limited brain will take the chance.

[procon]

15. The list of crimes he would need a pardon for

would reveal all of Trump's evil doing from The past four years. Will be shocked at what we learn?

[DonaldsRump]

16. Someone on DU suggested Trump would invoke the 25th Amendment

To make Pence the Acting President. Acting President Pence would then pardon Trump. Trump would then come back as President and then pardon everyone else he could, including Pence and the Trump family.

It's possible...shocking, but possible.

[LittleGirl]

17. But what exactly would he pardon?

has he been charged and convicted of a crime?

[blueinredohio]

18. How can you issue a pardon when a you've not been accused of a crime? Yet.

Issue a pardon just in case and that pardon covers everything?

[hlthe2b]

19. I don't think he can, but I would not want to depend on a semantic argument about the word "grant"

and its implication that a pardon is transitive. The overwhelming principle to me is that no one is beyond the law and that the constitution ratifies that principle.

I hate with a passion the willingness for all who enable Trump to push the boundaries beyond all belief. But, honestly, if he does pardon himself I honestly HAVE to believe that even this SCOTUS would draw the line--correctly.

[kentuck]

23. He can and he will, unless he is challenged in Court.

He should be challenged. That should never stand as a precedent.