I am neither surprised nor angry that Flynn got pardoned. In fact, there is even an upside.

[Stinky The Clown]

First off, Mike Flynn is a world class coward. Remember him separating Trump's legal team and cutting his own deal to try to save his ass? Then Trump made him a better offer. He turns like a squirrel again.

No matter.

Along with a pardon comes, by definition, guilt. And because he is pardoned, he cannot be tried for the crimes for which he was pardoned . . . . . meaning . . . . .

. . . . . . no Fifth Amendment protection. Get him under oath and ask him about the Russia shit for which he was pardoned and he MUST answer. No hiding. If he lies, it is a FELONY again. And there's no Trump to save him.

Feeling' good, there, Mikey? Huh?

Keep looking over your shoulder, dude, cuz da man's coming' for ya, ya TRAITOROUS MOTHERFUCKER.

Ooooops. Sorry. That sounded kinda angry, didn't it.

[underpants]

1. You are right about the guilt.

Don’t worry about the anger.

[greenjar_01]

2. It signals pretty clearly that Trump knows it's over

In essence, Judge Sullivan was not going to let this go. He was going to run out the clock on the Trump administration and have the new DOJ take a second look, which was going to happen January 20, at 12:01 PM EST.

Trump pardoning Flynn now is the clearest admission since acceding to the transition that Trump knows he won't be President when the clock strikes noon that day. And let's be very clear: Judge Sullivan was absolutely going to see that Flynn went to federal prison over this.

[Paul-EM]

3. keep resisting

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2020, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Painting [link:https://www.artforthesoulgallery.com/paul-midura?pgid=kbgqv2lp-a6dadf16-eca1-4c4d-93c2-abeb0e405bf5|

[Ms. Toad]

4. He MUST answer only if he accepts the pardon.

A subtle difference, but the posture of the case that created this principle.

Once he is on the stand, he has a choice accept the pardon (in which case his 5th amendment right to avoid self-incrimination vanishes) OR he can reject it and assert his 5th amendment rights. He just can't do both, when the two positions are inconsistent.

[WVreaper]

5. Is pardoning a traitor treasonous?

Just asking.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Actually certain crimes against the state are not pardonable

I am uncertain about the details of this.

So maybe by digging in deep, we can find a way to send him away until he's dead.

[asiliveandbreathe]

6. If I were feet on a beat - I would ticket the traitor every time he jaywalks..n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Accepting a pardon does not operate as a legal confession of guilt.

In Burdick v. United States (1915) the Supreme Court wrote that a pardon “carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.” Since then it's been assumed that the acceptance of a pardon is the equivalent of a guilty plea, or at least an admission that the pardoned crime was committed. However, Burdick was about a different issue - the ability to turn down a pardon. The language about imputing and confessing guilt was just dicta (a comment without legal affect). The court meant that, as a practical matter, a person might not want to accept a pardon because it might make him look guilty. In some cases, pardons have been given to exonerate people who were not guilty. They are not a legal declaration of guilt. However, Flynn actually did plead guilty in court, under oath, so he's admitted his guilt irrespective of the effect of the pardon. And it is correct that he no longer has Fifth Amendment protection with respect to the crimes for which he was pardoned, so if he's questioned in a court proceeding about the facts underlying his prosecution and he lies again, he can be prosecuted for that perjury.

[onenote]

9. Yep. Lost track of how often this has been pointed out.

And he can still assert the 5th where answering could be incriminating with respect to a state criminal charge.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. I wonder if there are any possible state criminal charges against him.

Or is he only a disgraced federal criminal?

[onenote]

13. There may be state financial/tax crimes. Perjured documents?

[walkingman]

11. A treasonous liar pardoning another treasonous liar

[bottomofthehill]

12. Fuck him, charge his dirtbag son

And make him testify against him.

[bluescribbler]

14. Apology accepted.

But, you must not apologize for speaking the truth.

[Ponietz]

15. Flynn's testimony is worthless

[Kitchari]

16. K&R n/t

[AlexSFCA]

17. he may rather commit perjury than have a bounty on his head by russian government

[marble falls]

24. Perjury puts him in jail. I hope he purjures himself.

[warmfeet]

18. "Keep looking over your shoulder, dude, cuz da man's coming' for ya, ya TRAITOROUS MOTHERFUCKER."

da man's coming for ya, Michael Flynn.

Anger is a secondary consideration.

I have a feeling that things will sort themselves out. And no, I do not mean god, or any other such supernatural tripe. I literally mean a living entity that will take these m'fers out.

[Mr.Bill]

20. I agree.

It's not like they haven't made any enemies, both here and abroad. And Trump is notorious for not holding up his end of the deal. I mean, he never does. It's how he has lived his whole life.

[miffelplix]

19. He will simply say "I don't recall."

Flynn will never help in any investigation.

[TomDaisy]

21. everything must come out - even if there are no prosecutions (but I hope there are)

[Evolve Dammit]

22. Our anger is completely justified. Traitors and treason.

[marble falls]

23. I would have preferred the pardon after Miley was inside for a week or two ...

Flynn has a fear of jail.

[Generic Brad]

25. I think Trump and his ilk consider pardons as a get out of jail free card

And nothing you tell them will convince them otherwise.

Remember when Joe Arpiao was told he admitted guilt because he accepted his pardon? He refused to believe it.

They are that stupid.

[Bettie]

26. Doesn't a pardon also invalidate his plea agreement

and open his son to prosecution?

[BobTheSubgenius]

27. I believe you are 100% correct.

I`m very certain you are at the very least, largely correct. There is also a possibly unexpected bargain for the prosecutor. He, she or they know exactly what they are getting into, and not regretting granting immunity and finding they didn`t have all the information.

Very often, if the prize is deemed big enough, the deal will include both the specific charges entailed in the case, and any crimes that may arise during the case. I imagine they can exclude certain things from their offer - like unexpected guilt in a murder when they thought the case was about grand theft only.

[Cha]

28. KR!