This may start a DU dispute," but

[Cyrano]

Joe Biden won the presidency and most of our down ticket (congresspeople, senators, and state representatives) lost. Like it or not, we are a minority party.

IMO, the reason for those losses can be summed up in four words: "Defund the police" and "socialism."

Words have meaning and Republicans have far more understanding of this than do we.

Nobody wants to "defund the police." What that phrase means seems to mean is that we should not give any money to sustain a police force of any kind. What it really means is to stop buying the police surplus military weaponry and put that money to better use.

And then there's "socialism." Most people think that socialism and communism are synonymous. They're not. Socialism was only tried once on this planet. It was in the kibbutzim established by Israel to settle the survivors of the Holocaust. And it worked. Everyone shared, and sustained a humane world that, eventually, led to better lives for all.

(In reality, Russia, China, Cuba and many other countries never practiced Communism. They used that word, but, in reality, they were just fascists using a different title.)

We Dems are in danger of forever losing this country to many selfish, greedy, bigoted, cruel, hateful people who call themselves Republicans.

Time for us to change the words we use to win over the majority of decent Americans. And "defund the police," and "socialism," aren't those words.

Republicans have ruled us and ruined us over the past 50 years because they know how to convince people with their propaganda/words.

Time we caught up. Or we will be the ones who end up on the dust heap of history.

Today's Republican Party has one thing to offer us. Fascism. That's who they are. That's what they are.

[MaryMagdaline]

1. K&R

[Indykatie]

2. I Agree. "Defund the Police" Was a Gift to the GOP. Biden Did a Good Job Separating Himself

from the craziness and Medicare 4 All.

[cwydro]

6. Yup, James Clyburn compared it to the "Burn, baby burn" chant of the 60s.

Stupidest slogan ever.

[TheBlackAdder]

50. Hasn't 30 years of Frank Luntz taught us anything? IT'S THE FREAKING MESSAGING! Word Play Matters.

.

Luntz frequently tests word and phrase choices using focus groups and interviews. His stated purpose in this is the goal of causing audiences to react based on emotion. "80 percent of our life is emotion, and only 20 percent is intellect. I am much more interested in how you feel than how you think. ... If I respond to you quietly, the viewer at home is going to have a different reaction than if I respond to you with emotion and with passion and I wave my arms around. Somebody like this is an intellectual; somebody like this is a freak."[4]
.
.
Luntz's description of his job revolves around exploiting the emotional content of language. "It's all emotion. But there's nothing wrong with emotion. When we are in love, we are not rational; we are emotional. ... my job is to look for the words that trigger the emotion. ... We know that words and emotion together are the most powerful force known to mankind."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz

.

[Rural_Progressive]

126. Don't suppose anybody was paying attention

to how the Republicans working for Biden/Harris crafted their message. Probably asking for too much I guess.

[misanthrope]

181. One of the biggest flaws in the Enlightenment

was the assumption that because a given person is capable of reason, then humanity is a reasonable species. We prove that wrong daily.

[TheBlackAdder]

191. If humans are mostly emotionally driven that explains why GOP messaging is more effective.

.

Luntz is saying people are 80% emotion & 20% intellect.

Appealing to people on an intellectual level places Democrats at a disadvantage.


===


We may win the debate, but if many of the listeners tune out or vote by their gut, reasoning alone fails to deliver.

This is ever apparent when showing rubes the numerous ways the GOP fucks them, yet they still vote for them.

Religion is a similar construct, where intellect takes a back seat to emotion.

.

[summer_in_TX]

238. That's why Joe's campaign connected.

Joe was amazing at articulating the American ideal, welcoming immigrants, standing up for civil rights, inclusion. He of all the candidates best articulated that we were in a fight over values.

Frank Luntz isn't the only one.

George Lakoff, a cognitive linguist (and philosopher), is best known for his thesis that people's lives are significantly influenced by the conceptual metaphors they use to explain complex phenomena. The author of Don't Think of an Elephant among other works, Lakoff talked about how framing triggers emotional reactions that are far more important than an intellectual approach. Lakoff's a progressive and tried to get Dems to run their races by articulating values over and over, and framing any policies in ways that tie them directly to their values. Brilliant, but a lot of Dems didn't listen. I think Joe Biden did.

The phrase Defund the Police (and before it Defund ICE) and running on socialism all trigger emotional negative reactions that bypass reasoning. As a mentor of mine says, if you have to explain it, you're losing.

[RVN VET71]

221. Humans are "not rational animals but animal capax rationis" per Dr. Swift

Which is why he said he hated and detested "that animal called man, although I heartily love John, Peter, Thomas, and so forth."

An opinion I've always found it hard to disagree with.

[Catch2.2]

219. When will Democrats learn?!

[Crunchy Frog]

230. Too late, I'm afraid.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

268. Exactly! I've been asking for years and years why Dems don't

have someone doing for them what Luntz does for Rs.

Of course, it's also true that Dems are less likely to fall in line and stay on message & use the recommended terminology, even when they agree on the policies.

Also, of course, D politicians are held responsible for every poor word choice or bad action by any citizen who doesn't ID as a Republican. Even though D politicians almost never even express support for the leftist wing of the party, they have to answer for them, even if they truly & publically disagree with them.

Meanwhile Rs elect their extremists--some of their most looney tunes, racist, crooked, and idiotic members are US or State Senators & Reps.

And pResident Pussy Grabber can praise Nazis & dictators, invite the likes of Ted Nugent & Rush Slimeball to the White House, call for violence & politically motivated prosecutions against his opponents, and other R leaders can make their own racist, violent, or fascist statements, and it's all ignored, downplayed, or "both sides-ed."

And still the myth of the "Liberal Media" lives on.

[Catch2.2]

288. Agree 1000%

[evilhime]

115. Major Dem Problem

The right knows how to speak in bumper stickers - their slogans are en point for the audience they want to reach - death panels for example. Democrats haven't figured out how to create a good slogan - a memorable repeatable line. The ones they come up with usually backfire. We have to stop speaking in "white papers" and policy docs, and learn to reach everyone - we need slogans that will hit home and resonate positively to our message. We hiring the wrong PR people .

[kiri]

227. confirmation bias hurts DU and liberals

Free republic is worth reading from time to time.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3910364/posts

It is important to not dismiss them, even though they are nuts. But they are not stupid. They raise serious questions about how this court case might turn out, given the Florida decision in Bush-Gore. Nobody can trust the crazy Supreme Court of Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Barret.

John Roberts has lost his power to being a moderating influence.

SCOTUS would be well-advised to simply deny cert to the inevitable petitions and motions.

But the court evangelicals are flush with power. There is grave risk that they will take over to win their agenda.

Remember Trump laughing and mocking when there were objections to using the White House for a political rally?
"There is nothing they can do about it."DU and the Democratic Party have not even taken baby steps to understand--and contra-act--the 73 MILLION Americans who voted for Trump.

[jaxexpat]

122. Mischaracterized descriptive phrases don't help.

"Defund The Police" was only slightly more harmful than "Basket Of Deplorables". Both, however, were legitimate in that they exposed REAL problems. "Medicare 4 All" was a perfect example of how little people actually understand about fundamental things already in place.

It doesn't help that the Low-Info media persists with Low-IQ dumbing of the national conversation. Though it is dead-on in targeting it's audience, recognizing that the general public are grossly ill informed on just about everything that isn't directly in their pay line.

We are perpetrators of our own victimhood. English is hard.

[Gothmog]

240. Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police.

[Trueblue Texan]

265. Who came up with that "defund the police" slogan, Putin?

[Moostache]

3. First nits (of many to be sure...)

1) Socialism is a boogeyman word like "Soros" or "Clinton"...it has no REAL meaning to them, just emotional response like Pavlov's dogs hearing the bell...

2) Defund the police actually means MANY things but the phrase was tied to the images of idiots looting and running down the streets with armfuls of stolen goods. It was highjacked to equal an image of minorities being bad and hurting those great small businesses...like Foot Locker.

3) There is no arguing about this Democrats who ACT like Republicans are as much or more of the problem at its core...

[DURHAM D]

15. Huh?

3) There is no arguing about this Democrats who ACT like Republicans are as much or more of the problem at its core...

[Moostache]

28. Democrats like Lieberman and Manchin...they are a part of the problem getting anything done.

The lack of a super-majority due to Lieberman's duplicity and back-stabbing torpedoed single-payer and a government option back in 2009...Joe Manchin is already on record as saying he will not support Biden's agenda, let alone a more progressive one...

THAT is why they are Democrats that act like Republicans...the old "Blue Dogs" were just as much a problem in the 90's and earlier as well...

LBJ and FDR...both managed to corral the party and move agendas forward, most of the cherished accomplishments of the 20th century lay on those foundations. Manchin and Lieberman would have found very little comfort in those Democratic parties of the past,,,

[intheflow]

98. I remain convinced that Lieberman on the 2000 ticket

really contributed to third party votes which made the election so close.

[brooklynite]

108. Where has Manchin said he won't support Biden's agenda?

He's said he doesn't support eliminating the filibuster or packing the Supreme Court. Neither does Biden.

[BGBD]

111. Wrong

Those days that you cherish were made up of Democrats that were to the right of Manchin. He has also never said he wouldn't support the Biden Agenda. He won't support the Agenda that groups like Justice Democrats are trying to push on Biden.

Manchin actually accomplishes things besides sniping at other Democrats on Twitter.

[tymorial]

103. It doesn't matter what defund the police means.

I have heard and read that argument many times as a way to deflect criticism for the slogan. It is a waste of time. The slogan IS indefensible. It drove away more voters than it drew in. It also handed the Republicans a very useful talking point to manipulate voters into believing we want to eliminate law enforcement.

Do you know how many times I had to explain what it meant, even to people I know personally who always vote Democrat? "What will replace the police when they are removed?" That was a frequent question and I couldn't blame them really. How could I when the first time I saw it my first reaction was "That cannot seriously mean what it appears." It is not much of an intuitive leap to consider it means ultimately getting rid of of replacing local law enforcment.

Defund Police = removing funding for police = eliminating police.

THAT is what many people think. I have been laughed at for making this argument and others have stated well if people are that stupid then they can't be reached. I loathe that kind of smug intellectual superiority. It isn't useful and ultimately it costs votes.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

290. It's especially bad to judge people intellectually inferior for assuming that "defund" means

what it means.

[The Mouth]

128. " was tied to the images of idiots looting and running down the streets with armfuls of stolen good

There were even morons here posting about the Boston Tea Party and stating that "You've got to fuck things up..." and lots of people were cool with that.

I curse the assholes who said "It's just property", may then end up in a hell where Trump reigns.

[Gothmog]

242. You are wrong

To many of the Latinx voters in Florida. socialism has a meaning and this attack killled Democratic in Florida

Link to tweet

[Moostache]

271. That guy (in the linked pic) has a sign talking about COMMUNISM...socialism is NOT the same thing.

If you want to go on thinking that those people are reachable, be my guest. I will ignore them and at the end of the day we will both have converted the same number of voters.

Socialism is the boogeyman word to encompass everything scary and 'bad'...socialism for real is the police, fire and road crews...it is social security and Medicare/Medicaid...it is infrastructure that people use every day without paying a fee to the owners (outside of taxes)...it is public education and it is NOT the big scary thing that these voters are misled into believing it is.

There is no socialist problem, there is as usual a messaging problem and a large group of duped sheep that hear one word, think of a second of a second and then cower in fear and vote for the strongman's promises to stave off the scary thing that does not exist in the form they fear.

[Gothmog]

272. Again you are wrong

Democrats lost seats in Florida and Trump won Florida because your analysis is simply wrong. Socialism charges killed Democrats in Florida. There is a bias against socialism in the real world.

Link to tweet

[Moostache]

274. Have a nice day

[Gothmog]

287. Here is an attack ad that is being used in Georgia

Link to tweet

[George II]

278. Did you miss the "No Socialista" above the "No Communista"?

[pwb]

4. I think too many voters only voted for President.

Many Americans don't understand how congress works.

[Amishman]

89. That's been a very long term phenomenon

And was actually well down this year.

[LeftInTX]

134. They voted down ballot too

Locally, there were some undervotes, but not enough to throw a race.

We had like 3%-4% undervotes.
Biden win my precinct by 3 votes.
John Cornyn won by 112. There were like 40 undervotes
.

[KPN]

263. So they were votes against tRump, not against Rs.

[LeftInTX]

269. Yes

John Cornyn is a hard guy to beat. We hate him because of politics in the senate. But at home, he has excellent constituent services and he doesn't spew hate like Cruz. He has slick ads that portray him as bipartisan, supporter of women's rights etc etc
He introduced Jenna's Law and got it passed in the US Senate. Jenna is a young woman who was sexually abused. She was on his ads saying, "John Cornyn supports..." He didn't even go negative. He ran against a woman

Cornyn also introduced Juneteenth as a federal holiday after George Floyd...A week before early voting, he laid ground on a Hispanic heritage museum. He does stuff that "looks good"

[LeftInTX]

149. Elaborating on why I somewhat disagreed:

Republicans for Biden was a real thing.
Republicans for MJ Hegar, not so much

[USALiberal]

5. "reform the police" would have been a better phrase. Nt

[Bettie]

16. The problem is that the phrase came from protests

not from Democrats.

[pazzyanne]

59. Exactly!!! nt

[The Mouth]

131. Too many Democrats didn't disavow the stupid phrase,

The morons who used it, nor even in some cases the rioting, blocking freeways, and looting. Good work, useful idiots.

[DBoon]

173. Unfortunately disavowing the phrase just spreads it

The more you try to refute a false statement, the more you spread that false statement.

[Doremus]

162. Many things came from protests that reflected badly on Dems, all of it done by provocateurs, i.e.

REPUKES. The looting, the rioting, all of it.

We have simply got to learn how to control the message. We suck at it and it sinks us every time.

[Bettie]

165. Yep. But it isn't us at the bottom of the political pyramid who get to control the message

The media repeats Right Wing talking points endlessly and never, ever pushes back on any of it. There is also a huge imbalance in terms of numbers on shows, the right gets most of the time and coverage to spew their poison.

Our elected officials don't have the message discipline that Republicans do.

If 20 republicans are on media in a given day, they all go over the same talking points, often with the very same words.

Democrats each go their own direction, when they are given air time at all.

Part of the issue is that most of the stances on Democratic issues are nuanced, not easily turned into three word slogans.

But, we do have to figure out how to push back at negative messages from the right and forcefully.

I know a lot of people here despise AOC, but she's really good at turning those messages back on the sender.

[Doremus]

174. Spot on analysis.

100% agree.

Why are we still having a problem with messaging?? (rhetorical) It's been a weakness for decades.

[The Mouth]

186. If we just shot all rioters and looters

then we'd only be killing agents provocateurs then! Let's try that!

[58Sunliner]

245. Not all the looting or rioting was repukes.

Nobody forced people to step into those stores and run out with merchandise. And past events in other cities just reinforced the belief it was the people protesting.

[Heartstrings]

62. Reform or restructure would have worked much better imo.

“Defund” was handed to the maggots and they ran with it.

[vlyons]

7. I've been calling them Fascists for a long time

Fascism occurs when an authoritarian is supported with the money of corporations, industrialists, and multi-millionaires, and enforced by a repressive military.

[North Shore Chicago]

8. Solid post!

This "defunding the police" vexed me as well, when W (the dimmer) started handing out military equipment to police, I was quite concerned about the backlash. The police force, USPS were encouraged to hire war veterans who returned with PTSD and other mallodies.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[marmar]

9. Who's using the world 'socialism', save for the few people calling themselves Democratic Socialists?

[DURHAM D]

13. Republicans use it to describe all Democrats. nt

[Orrex]

38. Exactly.

Through my job, I have to hear a lot of Fux Noise, and they use the “socialist” label at least every two minutes whenever a Democrat is being discussed.

It is foolish and suicidal to pretend that this isn’t happening, or that it isn’t having an impact, or that we”ll be fine if we simply explain what socialism really is.

[marmar]

43. But they're going to use it regardless.

[Orrex]

100. And?

The current strategy, which seems to consist primarily of mocking Republicans’ misuse of the term, isn’t doing much to counteract their bullshit.

[Bettie]

135. What do we do then?

Make sure that policies are unhelpful enough to the vast majority of people as to render the socialism label untenable?

Become the second party of the ultra wealthy, by ensuring that they get what they want and fuck everyone else?

Because the socialism label comes from being on the side of the people without piles of money.

[Orrex]

146. I might ask you the same question

When I post concerns about Democratic strategy, I find that my posts tend to get hidden.
However, knowing that Republican fuckheads and their media accomplices will continue to demonize the term “socialist,” and knowing that no bold public policy initiatives will pass a deadlocked Congress, how exactly do you propose to overcome the deeply ingrained public perception that “socialism is bad?”

[Bettie]

147. I have no idea

but I also don't think that abandoning the idea of being the party of the little guy will help in the long run.

The problem is that the really rich people control the message, because they can spend unlimited amounts of money on elections and buying congresscritters of all stripes.

[Orrex]

158. Then we are in complete agreement

The party shot itself in the foot when it started taking unions and minorities for granted. We need to embrace these groups, because they are key to the future progress.

[Bettie]

168. I generally believe

that when Democrats run as Democrats, not Republican Lite or having no stands whatsoever they do better.

My rep was defeated by someone awful. I knew she'd lose when she, at every turn, distanced herself from Democrats and tried to walk the line in between the two parties. She was a good rep, but she's gone now and we have a trump worshiper in her place.

We need to embrace the base of our party, but there seems to be disagreement as to who that base is.

[TheFarseer]

231. some Republicans have convinced themselves

That not cutting taxes further is socialist. So anyone that doesn’t think we should cut taxes more is a Communist because they use those words interchangeably anyway, so Joe Biden is a Communist. He said it himself when he said he would roll back some of the Trump tax cuts. That’s how looney a lot of Republicans are. They just say whoever on the left is a Communist like it’s a fact because they voted against a tax cut once.

[AmyStrange]

249. Trump and Putin are buddies, and...

-

that just proves to me that those republicans (that you speak of) are just plain stupid.
==========

[Gothmog]

243. Miami-Dade County shifted over 20 points toward Trump from 2016

Link to tweet

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. Oh, I definitely want to defund the police. Through abolition.

It's a tricky one to campaign on, though.

[yourmovemonkey]

88. I agree

What is the point of maintaining an institution that doesn't perform its required duty? The police see themselves as soldiers in a war... and all of the rest of us are the enemy. Any attorney will tell you to never to tell them ANYTHING! Without that necessary public support they become an expensive vestigial construct that serves no purpose.
The reasons for the situation that is in front of all of now has blame to be laid on both sides, but that doesn't change where we are.
If they want new toys, let them have a bake sale.

[cwydro]

151. What will you do when someone breaks into your house while you're in it?

What do you do when you see someone assaulting another person?

Sorry, but I’ll be calling the police.

I forgot to turn off my home alarm one morning before opening the door. They were here in minutes. Oh, and the responding officer was a black woman...perhaps I should have asked her opinion about ACAB.

[tonedevil]

157. When that exact thing was happening...

to me 10 years ago I called 911 as a man was kicking my front screen door in. I was told they would try to have a patrol car by in the next half hour. After I wrestled the man off my porch and he was walking down the street I called 911 again. I was told that since the situation was resolved I could use the online form to make a report.
I have spoken to others in the neighborhood and they have experienced the same lackluster response from the police. As far as I'm concerned there is no one to call when your house is being broken into, but if there are peaceful protesters in the street there are hordes of riot ready shock troops shooting people in the face with rubber bullets. You may think that shit needs to be funded, but I think it needs to be dismantled and severely defended.

[cwydro]

159. Well, I had the opposite happen to me while in college.

Despite living 10 miles out of town, when a man tried getting in my house...the cops were there in minutes. He’d broken my window by the time they arrived, and I watched as they threw him on the ground.

They weren’t gentle, and I didn’t care. I would’ve liked to stomp him myself.

He was a white man, btw.

[tonedevil]

194. Our different experiences...

seem to have led to different opinions. I have no trust of the police and have not thought of them as relevant to my safety other than being another violent gang I want to avoid all contact with. I can't say I like the idea of using police violence to gain a feeling of satisfaction at seeing someone who you feel has wronged you.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

170. I hope this doesn't sound creepy; I know we've talked about this earlier this year.

(Your name and posting style sticks in my head, and we interact a lot.)

Living in a rural area, I think a lot about scenarios like the ones you describe. I've had some incidents at my home that remind me that I'm on my own; response time here would be 15 minutes at the very best in good weather. That's a long time if someone's breaking into the house, and effectively means 15 minutes where the police don't exist.

But abolitionism isn't a switch that we turn off, eliminating all police forces overnight, and then life goes on. It imagines models of support, prevention and education that reduce the need for police. It'll look different in different communities. It'll take a long, difficult time to get there. I believe we must try, because what we have now cannot be reformed.

[cwydro]

171. Not creepy.

I get what you’re saying.

I dislike the ACAB slogan, and I dislike generalizations, but improvements have to happen.

Steroids should be tested for in police forces; I really think that’s a thing. These muscle bound, armor and camouflage wearing idiots are a joke.

The female police officer who came to my door when I forgot my alarm was dressed as I expect a cop to be...nice uniform, no camo, polite and alert.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

187. I appreciate your perspective so much and I know we agree more than we disagree.

[MerryBlooms]

11. R&K

[Shermann]

12. I dispute that this will start a dispute!

I think we all agree that these are labels weaponized by Republicans to create straw man positions for Democrats.

[wnylib]

67. But they are far too easy to weaponize.

We need to use unambiguous words that can't be so easily distorted, words that mean something positive and desireable for most people to identify with.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. OMG, just stop

OUR party never embraced "Defund the Police". Like every lie the repugs tell, it was hijacked and used for their benefit.

Explain this to me. How does a Democratic candidate who has NEVER uttered the words "Defund the Police" defend against the lies told by their R counterpart? Making a statement to the contrary just doesn't cut it because the masses believe what they want to believe.

Those words you are speaking of are NOT in the Democratic Platform. If they were, I would agree with you 100 %. But they are NOT.

[DanieRains]

118. Stop Being Nice Is How

Republicans are evil lying Fascists who serve Satan. No one says it.

This is why we lose.

They only exist to help billionaires steal more and not pay taxes.

They support children stealing liars, and go to church and think they are not evil.

Republicans are a disease.

[TheFarseer]

234. They just pretend that we are all in agreement

with anything anyone on the left says. If AOC or Nancy Pelosi says anything, our candidate in Nebraska is going to have to deal with it. They don’t even bother to run against Kate Bolz or Teresa Greenfield. They just pretend they are running against AOC and Nancy Pelosi. They won’t even mention our candidate by name in the adds except to say (insert name) is just like AOC and Nancy Pelosi! It makes absolutely no difference what their actual positions on the issues are.

[milestogo]

17. "Socialism was only tried once on this planet."

There are plenty of countries who have mixed socialist political/economic systems.

[treestar]

65. They have capitalism and a strong safety net

with strong social programs.

Socialism requires the government own the means of production. That applies to the USSR, which may have only attempted that and it failed.

[XanaDUer2]

18. I thought we were screwed when I saw

Last edited Sat Nov 28, 2020, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)

DEFUND the police. Reform yes, defund no. Just relieved Biden won.

[randr]

19. I live in a very red district

The incumbent Republican lost his primary to the gun totin Qanonsensical candidate. She ran an anti socialism and "defund the police" campaign against her opponent in the general election and will be, hopefully, one of the loneliest people in DC.
The "law and order" and anti socialism mantras have been the only legs the Republicans have had to stand on for decades.
What we need is real public safety reform and expanded health care to knock the legs out from under them.

[XanaDUer2]

20. I thought we were screwed when I saw

Defund the police. Reform yes, defund no. Just relieved Biden won.

[doc03]

21. I agree but how? Republicans are great at branding

Socialism=bad. We faught WWII over fascism but instead
they have led people to think it was Socialism.
There are many other buzz words they use guns, flag,
God, political correctness.

[albacore]

37. I've thought about this a lot.

They frame things better than we do.
That's because their cult followers have been programmed to respond to short, bumper-sticker phrases and catchy slogans. I blame the pernicious effect of advertising, really. Simple minds are drawn to simple concepts.

Have you noticed that Dems...on DU and in discussion threads elsewhere...tend to use whole paragraphs, and to cite whole articles or studies backing up their opinions?
That's wasted on the cult followers. Their response - either real or implied - is tl;dr. Sometimes a whole sentence is tl;dr.

Our best bet is to respond in kind. We don't seem to be capable of that.

The video "Idiocracy" has become a documentary.

[walkingman]

22. Personally I blame in on religion - evangelicals and capitalism. Both are a religion for a

large segment of white Americans.

[Mariana]

130. I hope President Biden will order the IRS to vigorously enforce the Johnson Amendment.

There are thousands of churches, religious radio shows, and television ministries preaching outright that loyalty to Trump and the Republican party is a tenet of the Christian faith, and that it's sinful to vote for Democrats. Because the law hasn't been enforced, they have no fear of losing their tax exempt status. That needs to change.

[walkingman]

148. Totally agree, Mariana. Strangely enough when the Amendment was included in the Internal Revenue

Code of 1954 it was not even considered controversial. Just shows you how far to the right we have gone in this country. I get so tired of hearing the constant cries of "attacking our Religious Freedom". In reality, these days, instead of "freedom of religion" we need "freedom from religion".

It is not that difficult. Believe what you want just leave government our of the equation. Don't make religion a political issue and all of the so-called problems will mostly just go away.

[Hortensis]

23. Agree. WE, i.e., Democrats, are NOT the ones pushing those terms.

You can count on one hand all the socialists we've elected to national office. All but one are 2-year congressmen elected on waves of discontent and prone to be ridden right out. The other is a 30-year senator kept in power, not by the similarly almost nonexistent socialists in his state, but in good part by VT's conservative power blocs and voters who use him successfully to keep a liberal Democrat from being elected.

But, you know the old saying that a lie will fly around the planet while truth is still getting its shoes on. And sleeping in our shoes won't help. If the truth people don't seek doesn't arrive in their minds within 20 minutes or so of the lie, the lie embeds. And then the truth has to be powerful. Instead it's usually boring and responsible compared to the scary thrillers that've already sunk their hooks into ignorant minds without conviction.

I just don't see what we could have said to prevent what's happening on the dangerous right. As for the left, did someone forget to explain that throwing the nation to fascists would not set the stage for their revolution or not be "anyway, no worse" than what we have, that "democracy's already lost"? Even that 2016 wasn't about which national healthcare system but about ANY?

Of course not. Offering facts to ideologues and aggressive hostiles is like adding water to Quikrete.

The culture war issues on both sides arise from fear and anger, and with bad leaders harnessing that both sides would trade democracy to "win" and cheer their imagined victory. They all think we'd be the ones in trouble, not them, and good!

We need more sensible people voting to overcome the useful idiots. If we won both GA senate races, we could require everyone to vote...

[marmar]

31. Bernie Sanders won nearly 70 percent of votes in his last Senate election. ......

..... it's clearly more than conservatives trying to block a Democrat.

[Hortensis]

42. The point is, that 70% INCLUDES a lot of conservatives

who've been reelecting Sanders for going on 30 years now.

The state's senatorial elections are stacked so that conservative voters, most fairly moderate, help him knock out the Democratic candidates in the Democratic primary, and then many stick with their man when he switches label to run as I-Sanders in the GE. His socialist noise doesn't scare the conservatives who know him well in the least.

[treestar]

68. That's a single state

The state went over 65% to Biden. I don't think that means much nationally.

[marmar]

69. The post I was responding to was addressing VT-specific concerns.

[treestar]

79. Oh OK

It is an interesting assertion that VT conservatives think Bernie would be replaced by a "liberal Democrat" as if that would be a person more liberal than Bernie. People from VT would have the most reliable opinions on that.

[ahoysrcsm]

202. You can answer that question yourself...

is the Governor of VT Democratic or GOP?

That is the clue that CONs are propping the Senator up.

[LakeArenal]

24. I'll dispute it. This country is 47-47%

We fight for 4% of the vote almost everywhere. Two words don’t make or break an election.
If so Cages, Cofeve, Fuck Christmas,
I don’t care do U Nationalist, racist,
Oligarchy, Putin would have done trump in.

But it made him more popular.

Simplistic answers to complicated problems rarely apply.

[58Sunliner]

247. Thirty percent did not vote this year. And 2016 was only 58%.

Many state elections have low turnout, especially in the south.

[mdelaguna]

256. Agreed.

& Biden didn’t endorse the “Defund” slogan, and it likely galvanized a lot of new votes for our side. Screw the independent Pearl clutchers not smart enough to separate a candidate’s platform from a justified protest movement’s chant. And they need to not have all that crazy military gear, and the resources to assault a citizenry the way they do against protesters, since Occupy and long before.

[RandiFan1290]

25. They called JFK a communist, too.

Nice try

[Buckeyeblue]

27. You're correct.

I also think talk about racism complicates things. Middle class white people don't understand the idea of institutional racism. Because they have never suffered it. They hear the term racism and they think but we've come a long ways since segregation and public signs of "whites only", which we have. But institutions such as law enforcement continue to be racist.

We need to figure out a better way to talk about this. The way we are currently having the conversation is driving people away.

For example, I think we need to talk about police overreach. We need to talk about how they need to be held accountable. When we provide examples of police overreach, we need to include examples where white people are the victims too. There are many.

We are never going to get middle class white people to get vested in an issue unless it helps them too. And I think that is reality.

[treestar]

74. Your first paragraph is totally correct

They see only the progress, and it has been considerable. Taking the still statistically rare occurrence of a black man being killed by police and making it into "they are killing us" as if it's the holocaust is not working at all. And we need some of those people to make a majority, as there still are a lot of white people, 60% of the population. The "Independents" who decide every election but are low information - we need them. We got them this time because 45 is such a moron.

[The Mouth]

139. Lots of middle class whites AREN'T racist

by the definition of "Racist" we grew up with, that being "I wouldn't hire, be friends with, or eat at a counter with a POC'.

The definition of "racist" among the woke in 2020 is a damn sight more comprehensive than what a "racist" was when I was a little kid in the 60's and 70's.

Back then, George Wallace was "racist", the KKK was "racist", people using the 'N' word were probably racist, and that was about the extent of it, and even normal middle class people like me and my friends knew it was wrong....But not "OMG you didn't go to microaggression sensitivity training" or "What do you mean you voted for a Republican" as some folks would define "racist" now.

And if you call a person who doesn't consider themselves "racist" enough times guess what, they stop caring what you say.

[Buckeyeblue]

150. That's right.

And I don't think the message to the middle class is that they are racist. But I think that is how it gets internalized. And as you pointed out, they get sick of hearing it.

I personally don't think it can be said enough. But I'm not the person whose vote you're trying to get. I'm voting Democratic across the board for a number of reasons.

But for those that flip back and forth, we need to make the case why our side is better. And part of that is not alienating them.

The Republicans message of lower taxes, less government in your lives is universal.

Our message needs to be universal as well. Cheaper access to healthcare, a chance for all highschool graduates to go to college or trade school and not be burdened with debt, low interest loans to start small businesses for everyone, a fair tax system, improved infrastructure for rural and urban America, a policing system that is focused on being part of the community and is held accountable for their performance.

Those are easy tag lines that include everyone and still fit within the party platform.

[The Mouth]

276. The message of a lot of people here on DU to the middle class seems to be that they ARE racist

Because people here and elsewhere are using the standards of 2020, not the standards of when someone was a child or young adult.

The woke folk out on the streets consider as "racist" things that even a somewhat progressive college student of my era (1970's) would even begin to consider as racist. They are free to do it, but they shouldn't be surprised when they accomplish the exact opposite of what they are trying to.

[marmar]

250. No offense, but the definition of racism is and should be.....

... much more expansive than the 1960s/70s. It's a different and more aware world, and that's a good thing.

[The Mouth]

275. Keep thinking that

and watch the Republicans win next time.

You can't expect tens of millions of voters to actually start to believe there are such things as Microgaressions, systemic racism and White Privilege* in the space of just a decade or two. Well, you can, and you can also say "hello Republican House and President"

Insisting to people who genuinely don't think they are racist that indeed they *ARE* just loses elections; the vast majority won't have the racial perspectives, priorities, and consciousness of the average BLM protester for 30-40 years.

Although "Defund the Police" is, undoubtedly, the dumbest political phrase of the last century and it's hard to believe anyone not a Republican undercover operative actually uses it seriously. Still "White Privilege" is close in being a phrase that almost instantaneously makes a potential ally into a fearful and hating opponent.

Just getting 40 or 50 million Americans to stop thinking that we are the party of Socialism and racial rioting is the necessary first step, and our verbiage is not helping

*I don't deny it exists, but I maintain that the phrase is just as harmful and counterproductive as 'defund the police' or 'democratic socialism'.

[TheFarseer]

236. Yes!

Totally agree with your third paragraph. People being killed for unjustly is wrong no matter what color. It might help make the problem more relatable to more people and we can actually take positive steps to solve the problem. Just calling people racist is going to turn them completely against you and will never accomplish anything.

[greenjar_01]

29. A thread title always guaranteed to lead to excellent content

[RandiFan1290]

32. trump lost

Can't have us getting along here

[Cyrano]

70. The Republicans still hold most of the levers of

power at the state levels. But if we win the senate in January, we'll find out if the Democrats can really hold together. Some are from states in which they barely won, and they won't be willing to step out on any limbs. Don't expect "salvation" with senators like this in the mix. They care about holding onto their seats, not "Truth, Justice and the American Way."

Republicans march in "goose-step." Dems don't. And if we ever gain massive power, that will be a good thing. In the meantime, we are a very fucked country.

[treestar]

76. Democrats need to learn that it is not "blind" following

to support the people we voted in. We just start weakening them by holding their feet to the fire before they even take office.

[Bear Creek]

91. Funny how they scream

Election fraud. Time to start looking at the elections. They only holler about things they are doing themselves.

[The Mouth]

185. An accusation from a narcissist is a confession

[beachbumbob]

30. democrats have SUCKED with messaging AND give GOP AMPLE ammo to blow us out of the water.

there is no answer other than getting our collective heads out of our asses and find a better approach. That better approach is NOT THE HIGH ROAD. What works with GOP? FEAR

Where were the ads running that shouted GOP KILLING Social Security and Medicare in the same manor the GOP was running the defund police, wide eye evil socialist, etc ads?

I saw NONE.

[treestar]

77. If people are so gullible

that they believe things Dump says just because he said them, it is tempting to abandon ethics to the point where we think of how WE could get these gullible people following US. What might work besides the racism that works for the Repubs? That's the problem. We don't want the things these people would believe. They blame their problems on POC and immigrants. How do we get them to blame it on the rich/corporations and so on? Those are faceless and not as easy.

[beachbumbob]

81. gullible? Has less to do with it than the hate that seeths within these people.

[treestar]

83. then how do they come upon that hate?

because of the beliefs that POC or immigrants are getting something they aren't, their feeling that isn't fair. But why do they think it's a fact? How do we get them to hate something Republican instead?

[servermsh]

33. We are not a minority party. Republicans are the minority.

It is true that "defund the police" (which was from activists, not the Democratic Party) and "socialism" lost votes for us in a number of places. Bernie Sanders and others like him using the socialist term hurt us in places.

But for decades polling has shown that Democratic party policies are popular while Republican policies are not.

You've internalized decades of right-wing propaganda and are now spouting it yourself.

We are the majority. It's just some bad messaging on our side and extremely well-funded propaganda on their side.

[Baitball Blogger]

34. We need a think tank to find people who can define and market what Democrats believe in.

Secondly, we need to show how incorrectly the Republicans have framed us with the words, "socialism" and "defund the police."

[Progressive dog]

35. I agree that socialism and defunding police

played a big role in our loss of seats in the house. Very few Americans support socialism or defunding the police and it is unfortunate that so many continue to try to redefine the words.
Defund is not the same as reform.
Socialism is not the same as the kibbutzim (communes) of Israel. Most Israelis are not living in a kibbutz now because they don't choose that kind of life. Kibbutz members can leave and still be Israelis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

[dalton99a]

36. Stupid messaging. It was a huge gift to the GOP in Texas:

[MuseRider]

39. It won't matter what we say

they will use these and other more current issues to nail us to the wall. We need to educate and perhaps give a different name to some of the things that are socialist. I hate how they have made that sound bad, how could we be socialist and defund socialist services?

Perhaps just listing the parts of our government that actually are socialist and see if they really want to deal with it and put it out forever. It always seems that we just blow it off like we are ashamed.

We need to rename things but it will not make any difference if we do not use those names ALWAYS against them. Make them define the socialist they are so dead set against. Make THEM do that and see how it goes. Make them look like idiots.

It has to be loud and start as soon as Biden is in office. LOUD and secure and let them be the upset assholes they are while we calmly but insistently call it what we want to call it.

[marmar]

48. Thank you. Repugs have been using the socialist tag since Reagan.

Trying to pin it on the summer of 2020 is ridiculous.

[MuseRider]

56. I shudder at that name.

I was not a really big politics watcher back then, I was busy raising 2 little boys but paid enough attention to begin to really pay attention. We are still there! I hated that man and what he did and how he did it. Trump was probably supposed to be like him but he thankfully was too ego driven to be that. Reagan made this country stop all good forward movement and start blaming every person who was not white, male, straight and christian for all the problems and making solutions very tough of the people. I do not see how anyone can not see that time as the starting point. Limbaugh? Jesus they turned us around so hard and so fast it made your head spin.

[treestar]

80. I've argued with some right wingers in the past on the term

Government owning the means of production - they just insist that any regulation or government control is the equivalent of the government owning the factories, etc.

Insurance companies are a sort of socialism within capitalism. You pay into a fund in case you need more money than you can afford over a mishap. If you never get any sort of payout, you don't mind, because you didn't suffer the mishap. The ACA only helps people pay for insurance. Yet they managed to make it into "government" controlling healthcare.

Our real problem is not messaging. It is the people we are talking too being too willing to believe anything on emotional grounds. It's just the plain stupidity. We have been coddling that for so long that nobody even thinks it is possible to fight anymore. We have facts, we have logical arguments, but those don't work, emotional manipulation works better.

[MuseRider]

101. Well said.

My thoughts are simple and based on the supposition that anyone can learn. I do know that is not the case but have a very hard time accepting that, even after all these years. Thanks, I do agree with you.

Seems to be emotional manipulation would be easy in our favor. That has certainly changed in a big way.

I am holding out for things to calm down, people to start to get back on their feet and maybe going without so much push to the crazy side for a while. I am hoping that a significant part of the crazy we have seen will relax and realize that things are better this way. I know this is a good part of the reason we are getting what we get from them, the Pollyanna approach does not work, but that is me. So, how do we make that change? What do we change? They do not respond to people wanting them to be better, feel better, have better care. Surely it should be apparent without the government helping those things they will not get them.

I still, to this day after all of this, cannot believe there are that many really and truly stupid people. Uneducated or really undereducated...boy that has been a roaring success for the RW. Maybe a strong focus to get education back to something closer to a whole rather than the testing strategy? That is long term and their long term strategy has paid off in a big way for them. We have to solve this now, we will not get another chance if we fail this time to make some sense to them and prove we can do better. *I am going for a while but look forward if you have a response, this is just a jumble of thoughts while I get ready for company again and now I have scared myself so it is time to put it away for a bit. LOL, scared myself.

[SaintLouisBlues]

40. After a summer of protest, Americans voted for policing and criminal justice reform

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/criminal-justice-election/2020/11/13/20186380-25d6-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html

Americans took to the streets for extended demonstrations this summer to protest police violence and racial injustice. Then, on Election Day, they took to the voting booth to endorse criminal justice and policing reforms.

With a wave of votes across the country, Americans backed a string of measures increasing police oversight, elected reform-minded prosecutors, loosened drug laws and passed other proposals rethinking key elements of law enforcement and justice in their communities.

These votes, taken together, signal that after a summer of protest brought renewed scrutiny to the justice system, many Americans were open to rethinking how it functions — particularly on the state and local level, where policies have a stark impact on how people interact with the justice system.

“It was a pretty good day for meaningful change in criminal justice reform,” said Ronald Wright, a law professor at Wake Forest University and a criminal justice expert. “The priorities I was watching didn’t win everywhere, but they won a lot more than they lost.”

[SaintLouisBlues]

44. More from this article:

"George Floyd’s death in May set off a wave of protests decrying policing tactics. Five months later, voters in several cities — including some that experienced significant demonstrations — approved measures that would increase how local police departments are scrutinized and investigated.

Voters in Oakland, Calif., moved to create an inspector general’s office outside the police force to review officer misconduct. In Columbus, Ohio, voters passed an amendment creating a civilian police review board and an inspector general. San Diegans supported replacing a police review board with a commission that would have subpoena power and the authority to investigate police misconduct.

These votes were not exclusively in big cities. In Kyle, Tex., outside Austin, voters overwhelmingly passed a proposition requiring police policies to be reviewed by the city council and put under a committee’s oversight.


In Philadelphia, which was rocked before the election by demonstrations and looting after a police shooting, voters decisively supported a ballot question calling for the city’s police “to end the practice of unconstitutional stop and frisk” and another supporting a police oversight commission."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/criminal-justice-election/2020/11/13/20186380-25d6-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html

[jalan48]

41. I would add the rioting and especially the looting that was broadcast on a nightly

basis for months this summer.

[cwydro]

156. Yup, did nothing to help us.

And brought us the lovely mess that is Kyle Rittenhouse.

[kentuck]

45. Some excellent points.

Perhaps the Democratic Party is out of step with the majority of Americans?

However, I do believe that the Democratic Party, mostly Joe Biden, received a lot of Republican votes in the last election. Many former conservatives. If they stay with the Party, they would likely make the Democratic Party slightly more conservative, in my opinion. Whether that would make the country worse, for political purposes, or better, is still open to interpretation.

Would they be accepted into the Democratic Party?

[Roy Rolling]

46. The language of Branding

Does that sound familiar? It’s how a bankrupt, weak, dumb guy sold 70 million people on how rich, strong, and smart he is.

It’s the language of persuasion, fine-tuned by salespeople and capitalist marketers.

Political campaigns are popularity contests, they aren’t civic tests. People vote for who they like, and branding words matter. Make an unpopular word stick on the best candidate and that candidate will still lose.

Them’s the rules.

[JCMach1]

72. This... The branding cost us 3-6 house seats in TX

[moondust]

178. ☝️☝️☝️

Empty-headed cockwomble is King of the superficial "business and advertising" party.

[George II]

47. Just read your first paragraph and stopped, it is incorrect.

Biden won the Presidency.

We won 13 of the 33 seats up in the Senate (we had 12 incumbents vs 21 for republicans), losing one (Jones) and gaining two (Kelly and Hickenlooper) for a net of +1. We have a 50/50 chance of winning one or two more in Georgia. That would be a net of +1 or +2 or +3.

We won 222 seats in the House, republicans 206. Two of the remaining 7 currently dead heats (one is 405 apart, the other 39 apart), the other five are currently split 1 Democratic and 6 republican. Even if all 7 go to the republicans that would be a net -10 for us (vs. +40 in 2018) It could be a net -8.

Two of the three are controlled by Democrats, and not out of the realm of possibility that the third will be 50/50 with Harris breaking any ties.

The popular votes were:

President: 80,104,118 vs. 73,918,712 for Biden (+6,185,406)
House: 75,957,985 vs. 72,404,449 for Democrats (+3,553,536), and that's WITH gross gerrymandering.

We're in the best position we've been in since 2009-2010.

So where does this "minority party" come from?

[Cyrano]

154. Republicans hold many state legislatures which means that

they will control the upcoming gerrymandering of those states. Given this fact, we'll be lucky to hold onto the House in 2020. Do the math.

[George II]

262. Just getting back to this. Here are the party controls in the 49 states (Nebraska is non-partisan):

For the two houses:

2016

Democratic 10
Split 9
republican 30

Democrats 29, republicans 69

2018

Democratic 15
Split 5
republican 29

Democrats 35, republicans 63

2020

Democratic 20
Split 1
republican 28

Democrats 41, republicans 57

https://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/partisan-composition.aspx#

Despite what people want us to believe, Democrats HAVE won in the state legislatures - we've doubled the number of states where we have both houses, and republicans have lost.

[NurseJackie]

266. 20 is more than 10, right? And 41 is more than 29? So Democrats are doing better NOW than in 2016?

[NurseJackie]

49. Other than for reasons of vanity or ego, I don't understand why so many cling to the word socialism.

Time for us to change the words we use to win over the majority of decent Americans. And "defund the police," and "socialism," aren't those words.

So true. So very true!

Other than for reasons of vanity or ego, I don't understand why so many cling to the word socialism. Regardless if it's being "misunderstood" or "incorrectly defined"... the fact of the matter is this: in the United States, that battle has already been LOST. The word has such negative connotations that it can never be retrieved. Any efforts to do so are wasted. (As the saying goes: If you're explaining, you're losing --or-- If you're defining and clarifying, you're losing.)

The only reason I can think of that anyone would want to hold on to that word is based on pride, rather than any real desire to accomplish anything meaningful or to make progress. I think that kind of stubbornness and short-sighted philosophy is one that goes hand-in-hand with the popular "all or nothing" and "no compromise" philosophies. Sadly, there are too many individuals who seem all to content to walk away with nothing because they can boast and puff-out their chests and proclaim that they "stood their ground".

All I'm trying to point out is that it's time to take a different approach. Attacking and smearing the Democratic party doesn't work. Preserving the status quo (literally) but refusing to compromise and find common ground and areas of mutual benefit... that just makes no sense. I've always said that PROGRESS (no matter how small) is always better than doing nothing, and always better than wasted effort.

In fact "progress" is the root word of "progressive"... I'll bet many people haven't even though of that when they reject incremental progress as being something "bad" or shameful... or something to be avoided at all costs.

Great OP. Thanks for starting the discussion. (Sadly, I think it will mostly fall on deaf ears.)

[Bear Creek]

51. Democrat

Spreading republican propaganda against other democrats is a losing situation. Progressive is correct. The police force is over funded. They are buying military weapons and machinery to use against people in communities. The police are killing minorities. Medicare for all again is correct. Quit letting the republicans frame the narrative.

[lunasun]

52. And those SOBs kneeling during a football game like Colin Kaepernick who wants to see that ?

Not suburban tailgaters ! Wrong message wrong place creeps them out
pissses them off bringing a focus on BLM to a game
Not helping the party win votes GOP calls them unpatriotic That is bad

[986racer]

53. Gerrymandering still matters

In 2018, the popular wisdom was that Democrats would need to win by huge margins to counteract the effects of gerrymandering. Having Trump off of the ticket helped a ton having those huge margins.

In 2020, he was back on the ticket and that energized his cult to get to the ballot box. While we still won, it wasn't by the huge margins needed.

I wouldn't read much more into it than that and I'm expecting 2022 to be another blue wave.

However, the one thing I think Biden needs to do (and I hate it because it will continue the polarization) is that he needs to be very vocal about every bill that Moscow Mitch sits on to make it clear that any gridlock in Washington is due to him.

[mdelaguna]

257. +1 we blame ourselves so much

When the R’s work constantly & corruptly to set things up in their favor

[frazzled]

54. I don't think that's the story (or the whole story)

Let's face it: this was a one-off election. It was not about policy, it was not about ideology, it was about one thing and one thing only: Donald Trump. The reason Biden won decisively (while others did not; i.e., there were not so many coat tails) is that many of those otherwise pretty red voters could not in the end defend or tolerate the man and his ways (not necessarily his policies, but his character) and the chaos these were creating. In Joe Biden they found the opposite of Trump: a man of decent character who could restore some sanity to the office. They were willing to defect in this one way from their conservative views.

But these people were not willing to go so far as to reject their party loyalty all the way down the ticket. Voters have famously opted for "balance" in their voting habits ... they don't want to tip the scales too far in one direction or the other. Additionally, voters are very famously not rational in their choices. We who follow politics and politics closely always think that others are equally deep into the fine points of proposed policy, but nothing could be further from the truth. Hair and the weather are often the deciding factors. Sad, but extremely true.

[Roc2020]

82. Indeed. Trump was rejected not the GOP

The Dems moved a mountain getting rid on an Incumbent President. Celebrate that win. The next mountain is 2022. Focus on that.

[gulliver]

55. Republicans have it easy. The innocent fools on our side are stars on the Republican Sales team.

We're going to need discipline and wisdom in the Democratic Party if we're going to get the world out of this crazy, suicidal, self-perpetuating fifty-fifty deadlock. I'm much more hopeful than I've been thanks to the win by Biden/Harris.

I'm grateful to James Clyburn. He must be some kind of behind-the-scenes sage. That's the only kind that currently works. The voices that are heard a lot are a mixture of wise, foolish, lying, and ignored, chosen at random.

[reACTIONary]

57. If you are explaining, you are losing ...

...... Oh but "defund the police" REALY means "reallocate scarce social service resources into viable community based conflict mitigation programs"

Yea right. It means defund the police.

[Ohioboy]

58. I agree

The phrase "defund the police" is purposely changed to mean "abolish the police" by right wing- media and other groups seeking to misinform. We need to make it harder for them to misinform by not having words that require definitions.

[NRaleighLiberal]

60. I disagree. We are not a minority party. read on...

the right wing has a well funded, decades running noise machine that spews propaganda.

Until that is dealt with, the minority will have more influence than they should.

[treestar]

61. Even if that is what "defund the police" means

remember, 911 started all that, and people generally might not agree to strip them of the military gear.

They've succeeded into making government spending that helps people into "socialism." We would need something they do to call them "fascists." Their love for authoritarianism could be harder to pinpoint onto something particular, because it would be something we want.

Bush/Cheney were more into the fascism, with the no-trial detention kind of thing. Gitmo. But then people see that as punishing terrorism.

It is always said we are bad at messaging, but it's harder for us to do. Somehow what we want or don't want is too complex for simple sloganeering.

[Riverman100]

63. My thoughts exactly!

Who the hell was the person that gave this gift to republicans? They use this defund the police as a rallying point. THINK people!

[PaulRevere08]

64. Demilitarize the police would have been better.

[KentuckyWoman]

142. I think that is a loser as well.

We do need a wing of the local and state law enforcement that can handle the big stuff ... like a mass shooter at a school or shopping mall. And you need an assault team for that.

You might need some guns to respond when the neighbor calls 911 because Bubba had too much corn liquor and is hanging out the trailer door waving a gun around threatening to kill his wife after she touched his cigarettes.

But you'll be far better off responding to an autistic naked teenage boy in the middle of street having a meltdown with people trained to calm the situation.

Having more options for first responders is a seller and is actually what is needed. Less options? .... not so much.

[PaulRevere08]

286. I don't disagree but a fundamental issue is the training that police get has morphed into

what soldiers receive, seeing any civilian as a potential enemy and threat to their life. The approach is "us against them" which leads to the use of overwhelming force, "shoot to kill", whenever the cop feels there is a threat. Arming them to the teeth only makes this worse.

[Recursion]

66. Even the people shouting "defund the police" don't agree about what it means

That was absolute political malpractice.

[JCMach1]

71. Big assumption next Rep nominee will have same rural appeal

As Trump.

[Voltaire2]

73. Your evidence?

[Dem4Life1102]

188. Crickets of course

Never let evidence get in the way of a good talking point. Lol

[Sympthsical]

75. We've had the sensible pragmatic moderate centrist messaging for 40 years now

How did that work out for the country? Because, from my perch, things haven't been going so well.

And no matter how often and how blatantly this milquetoast Washingtonian non-messaging fails, every. single. time., we get a wave of connected politicians in power and the journalists and activists whose careers and access rely on them come out of the gate with, "Here's why it's all the Left's fault."

What was Biden's message? What do you think voters recall of his message from the campaign? All I got was, "Well, I'm not the orange asshole!" Yes, I know his positions and policies. That's because I read a lot and pay attention. The vast majority of the country does not. So, sure, "Not Trump" was enough to win the presidency (which was a much nearer thing than it had any right to be), but who on earth thought that one thing had coattails? People were more than ready to get rid of Trump, but our messaging gave them nothing to vote for. This was a "vote against this one guy" election.

That's not an encompassing message.

Part of the problem is the whole Big Tent excuse that forever gets trotted out whenever anyone so much as sniffs at liberal policy. Because the Big Tent bell only ever gets rung when more conservative Democrats and those with power and access are explaining to the rest of us - the working people and those in need - why liberal policies are pretty much impossible, and incrementalism must forever be the order of the day. Republicans sure as shit don't do incrementalism. But we're forever, "Hey guys, don't rock the boat! Big Tent! Big Tent!"

After forty years, this shit has run out of excuses. It wasn't the Left. It was a total lack of messaging or cohesive ideas that sank down-ticket races. "Not Trump!" worked for Biden. Unfortunately, no one else was running against Trump.

That is why we failed.

[gulliver]

87. Incrementalism can be just as stupid as knee-jerk "hit the TV with a stick" solutions

The way out is forward. That means positive sum, win-win actions. All others will fail, and not in a win-lose way, but in a lose-lose way.

[DENVERPOPS]

78. Well said

agree with your thinking!!!!!!!!!

[Dem4Life1102]

84. How many down ballot democrats ran on socialism and

Defund the Police?

[RobertDevereaux]

85. Agreeing about "Defund" and "socialism"...

And agreeing about languaging in general compared to the fascists.

Switch "democratic socialism" to "social democracy." More accurate and less knee-jerky.

See George Lakoff, of course, for what needs to be taken deeply to heart about languaging . . . AND NOW!

Also, reference Edward Bernays, nephew to Freud, who used his uncle's insights into human character to create "Public Relations" as a thing and to turn it to quite often nefarious purposes. Find The Century of the Self, Part One on YouTube, for a 50-minute documentary about Bernays and his impact on US culture.

[marble falls]

86. To correct two mis-statement: we still hold the house. And the Senate is in the air untill Jan 6.

We've taken the legislatures in a couple of states. The works not done, but it is started.

[Cyrano]

93. My hopes and ideals are with you

But Republicans are about to, once again, gerrymand many states. And there's not damn thing we can do to stop them.

They will block democracy at every turn.

And, thanks to Mitch McConnell and the orange creature, we now have a SCOTUS and many federal district courts that are controlled by people who we consider to be unqualified at best and insane at worst.

Yes, our work has started. I hope we live long enough to see it accomplished.

[tymorial]

90. Defund The Police was definitely an issue

You can't get away from the socialism label though no matter how hard we try. Its been a part of conservative rhetoric for too long.

[Arthur_Frain]

92. Except that it doesn't matter a damned bit what we say or do.

Because the RW propaganda machine told them all of what you said was true, even tough it isn’t, is why they voted the way they did. You’re not going to have much success turning these folks either, the science on the psych is depressing.

You can’t reason with people who think the Clintons are running a child pornography business out of the basement of the pizza shop next door. People who have internalized the idea that their enemy is a fellow American, instead of the Russians, the Chinese, etc. are way too far down that rabbit hole. Good luck, but we are far better off focusing on their disaffected youth.

And the truth is that youth are too damned impressionable for that number to wind up being a significant one. The evangelical cons are out-breeding our side and out-inculcating their youth faster than you can corrupt them.

And they’re a helluva lot better organized and effective. If it wasn’t those four words, they would have latched onto another four words that would have been just as effective, not a damned thing to do about it, because the truth doesn’t matter to them. It’s what their cult leader thinks that matters to them, whether it’s rush, trump, or whoever.

They are too brainwashed, and I’m tired of caring about sheeple who actively resist any attempt to help them. I’m sick and tired of worrying about, or even trying to figure out, what they’re thinking or concerned about anymore.

I’ve got two words to use as our next campaign slogan, “F*&$ Them”.

[Pisces]

94. Frank Luntz has worked on messaging for the Repubs for years. The power of words and the affect

They have on people. They use the negative wording against us. I have no clue why we can’t employ people like this and get on messaging. We think this was organic “Defund the Police” but it doesn’t take much to pay people in big cities at large rallies to start chanting these words, especially where CNN cameras happen to be and then have FOX start parroting this is what Dems want. We need to do a better job!!

Demilitarize the Police should have been the phrase

[yaesu]

95. can be summed up in four words: Gerrymandering, voter suppression & Fox

but our party has been lacking in the messaging department bigly.

[iluvtennis]

96. People took the phrase "defund the police" literally. It is and was a nuanced phrase that

was to indicate that some % of policing funding should include community support. Like mental health personnel to be in police department and deployed to those non violent situations (e.g., the man who was drunk in the Taco Bell drive thru line, the man who was running down the neighborhood street naked, etc). With mental health person deployed to site with an officer, so many situations could be de-escalate. Also, money to put up small community/police centers in communities where police and folks in the community can get to now each other - ppl can voice their concerns and have dialog with officers on how to improve things.

But like you said, the rethugs intentionally took the words literally and used them to weaponize against the dems.

[Fiendish Thingy]

97. Democratic policies are supported by a majority of Americans, and Dems should govern that way

Republicans prevail because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. Messaging and framing are a small part, and are only magnified in significance by the above factors. With a level playing field, Dems would be the majority party for generations.

Dems should not shy away from progressive policies just because they might get labeled “socialist”; on the contrary, Dems should wield their power swiftly and ruthlessly, as if they would be out of power in the next election. If Dems governed in ways that significantly and measurably improved the lives of Americans (healthcare, jobs, income equality, social Justice, etc), rather than pragmatic incrementalism designed to keep donors happy and minimize damage from right wing media, they wouldn’t have to worry about winning elections.

[Tommymac]

144. This. 1000000%

It's not our policies.

It's a Right Wing Media monopoly that is causing the pain.

We have NO AM radio presence.

Fox News is sexy to the low information average Joe & Jane Sixpack. They have cute hosts and 'exciting' disinformation that keep them their eyes glued to the screen after a long day at a boring low paying meaningless job.

The Mainstream networks like CNN and even MSNBC play the ratings game too - they always need controversy to attract viewers and their Owners are hard core Conservatives so we all know which way the wind blows there despite the 'lipstick' applied by Rachel and Andrew and Chris.

Until Congress reinstates a new Equal Time Law and repeals the Clinton Telecommunications Act of 96 (Yes, a Democrat gave the rW noise machine it's impetus) we will never catch up.

Social media like Twitter and Facebook held promise until we discovered their Owners are RW enablers too.

We have the issues on our side - including affordable Health Care and Police and Justice Reform.

Long term fixing the education system is the top solution to fix this problem - but that is going to take generations and the political will to kep at it for the long term.

[Sancho]

99. We are a party that has been gerrymandered...

...along with every trick in the book to restrict registration, access to polls, and control the voting process. The major issue right now is gerrymandering, but the use of phraseology like "defund the police" would be replaced by some other slogan if that was not the meme of today.

Even with the large number of racists, crazies, and misogynists: there are more Democratic value-voters than repubs. Funded by the MIC and energy sector and (now) the technologists, gun nuts, and drug companies - the GOP has been MUCH better at creating an organized plan to win elections, and they create districts and state operations aimed at winning from the ground up.

There is no "magic message" that the Democratic Party can use that will turn the tide. It will also take more than excellent candidates. We need the well-funded mechanism that supports local elections, produces boilerplate legislation across the states, puts a million messages on social media in an hour, goes door-to-door (like the GOP did in Florida in 2020), and organizes everyone.

Personally, I'd love to see the best organizers put in charge of a 10-year, national strategy with no restrictions. The goal would be to fix the districting. There should be a wave of lawsuits and amendments and local candidates in every red state every year with the goal of flipping that seat or state.

[intheflow]

102. Alternative post title:

I’m gonna feign naïveté to shit stir the pot.

I wish to fuck Democrats as a whole were more invested in justice for BIPOC at the hands of corrupt police systems as they are about policing fellow liberals about the words they use. Whenever I hear, “defund the police is bad messaging!”, I also hear conservatives telling Black folks to be civil, or to not take a knee.

[Martin Eden]

104. "Socialism" is a word used by R's to falsely label D's

I agree "Defund the police" along with looting and burning were gifts to those who obstruct efforts at police reform and socioeconomic justice.

[AmericanCanuck]

112. It is not used falsely

We have some Democrats who are prominent on twitter but sparse in actual accomplishments who wear the socialist badge and flaunt it. They do it to get fame and notoriety at the expense of the Democratic party and their fan clubs cheer it on.

[Martin Eden]

132. Yes, it IS used falsely

They are using it to smear Joe Biden and the entire Democratic Party.

Those you describe are a fringe minority.

[AmericanCanuck]

164. I know they are a fringe minority but no one outside of devout Democrats know it

To most people, a Democrat is a Democrat.

On DU, I see trivial, meaningless and perfunctory tweets by the fringe are subject of OPs with the fan club bouncing up and down like they are as profound as Aristotle or Buddha, oblivious to the damage caused by them to the Democratic party.

These are some of the same people who didn't endorse Biden even after he was the nominee and boo'ed Hillary Clinton - but the fan club loves those things.

[Martin Eden]

167. Specifically, when D's in Congress openly declare they are Socialist?

Bernie Sanders is an independent who identifies as a Democratic Socialist and caucuses with the Democrats.

[scipan]

169. Example please.

I don't think I have seen anything like that.

[Jon King]

105. Totally disagree, could not possibly disagree more.....

The defund the police was only said by a view activists and was simply used by the right wing machine. All mainstream candidates said police reform. Socialism is BS term that no one understands. Roads, schools, police, military, visits by uninsured to the ER, and on and on are all forms of socialism.

The Dems won 80 million god dang votes. The demographics are changing fast. The young and the suburbs in NC, TX, PA, WI, GA are growing with progressives, the older Repubs are not being replaced.

Goal number 1 is to keep the Presidency, thats it. Executive orders and staffing agencies can do a ton to stabilize the country. Congress will always fluctuate back and forth.

Trying to moderate means losing it all. You won't excite the progressives and young, you still won't flip red districts. So you concentrate on one thing, never lose the Presidency again. And that will be done with saying FU to the red areas and doing everything for PA, MI, WI, GA, AZ, NC, TX cities and suburbs.

[AmericanCanuck]

114. Americans by and large are centrists.

If we insist on going too far to the left as a "stick it to the fat cats" mental satisfaction, we will lose. Tweets, slogans and platitudes don't hurt republicans. Election losses do.

We need to keep our eye on the ball of winning elections and keep the fame-seeking, twitter-obsessed people under control.

[uponit7771]

225. Again polling would've picked up in this early, there's no excuse for down ballot misses like we.had

[AmericanCanuck]

232. Polling for down-ballot races is sketchy

We need to focus on health care, environment, jobs creation and equality.

Everything else is a loser -- especially socialism and defund the police.

[quakerboy]

284. Iftthe greater mass of americans were actually centrists

Biden would have won the election in a way that not even trump at his most dishonest could deny. the margin would be multiple tens of millions, not a single 10 million

Biden's big appeal was to centrists. To people who want to get back to the old ways of working together across the isle. And no significant number of actual centrists would ever come out to vote for an extremist like trump with an opponent like Biden available.

We need to unequivocally offer the people things they care about. We need to create a world in which they trust us to do what we say we will do, where its clear that when we fail its only because Republicans stood in the way, not because we couldn't agree on serving the people.

[AmericanCanuck]

285. The corollary is not always true

However, if Biden were not a centrist, he would have lost for sure.

[uponit7771]

224. +1, No slogans or terms excuses the horrid polling either.

[ehrnst]

270. Actually, AOC used the term.

“Defunding police means defunding police,” the congresswoman said in a statement. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

[MineralMan]

106. No. The Democratic Party is not a minority party.

We have the White House. We have the House of Representatives, and we may end up with a tied Senate, depending on what happens in Georgia.

That does not constitute a "minority party." Your statement is incorrect.

[Cyrano]

160. They control many state legislatures which

gives them gerrymandering power after this current census. And there's a possibility that their gerrymandering could result in our loss of the House in 2022.

As far as Georgia and two more senate seats, I can only hope. Given Georgia's history, we can win it and still have it stolen from us. I hope i'm wrong. But may the powers of the universe lean toward Stacey Abrams and all Georgians who are voting for and seeking justice.

[DesertRat]

107. I agree and will add two more words "Open Borders"

Nobody wants open borders. But it plays on the irrational fear that immigrants will pour into our country to murder, rape, steal jobs, healthcare, education, etc. from American citizens.

[Midnightwalk]

109. It's not about backing down

It’s using the power language.

Of course we’re not defunding the police, but reform is necessary. Bad police have to he held responsible and we have to address the issues of mental health, poverty and homelessness and stop expecting the police to solve those issues

We’re talking about economic justice. Billionaires get tax give aways and the rest of us are told we can’t afford a living wage and health care. They throw words like socialism around but never explain why Americans can’t be paid enough to pay the rent and buy food.

Police reform and economic justice and immediately switch to talking about what we want.

The main thing is switching to what we want to talk about. In our terms. Don’t ever accept their framing. I agree defund the police was a bad phrase. Socialist is a label that won’t go away. Deny the bad words and talk about out good ideas. Make the opponent look stupid for sticking with a phrase you already discounted.

[KentuckyWoman]

110. It's salesmanship - and I agree with you 100%.

If you ask people if they support encouraging police departs to increase training for a more professional force, and be equipped with professionals to assist in crises like mental health or special needs children in crisis, nearly 100% will say yes. Defund the police ... eh... no.


If you ask people if we need to improve the safety net and build a better foundation under the medical care system, so when the next pandemic comes we are better prepared - nearly 100% will say yes. "Socialism" ... eh ... not so much.


We lost the ability to address lies via the media a long time ago. The internet now has made it about impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. Hate mongers and liars rule the airwaves these days. I hope the Biden Administration is able to turn that around.

[calimary]

113. They're MUCH more focused and disciplined on MESSAGING.

Democrats have MILES to go on smart, effective messaging.

Hate that it’s so, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t still urgently and absolutely necessary!

Seems to me Dems are slow to catch on, about this tactic. They seem to have dismissed messaging as merely so shallow and superfluous, surface-only, cosmetic, insignificant, and unnecessary - when it is VITAL!

It is VITAL! CRITICAL! And URGENT AS ALL-GET-OUT!

Yes, it’s just packaging. But when you’ve got masses of people captivated by the ol’ “shiny object” mentality, exteriors are EVERYTHING! Packaging is EVERYTHING! It’s VITAL that the surface treatment, the entryway, be “sexed up” as the advertisers and marketing people would say. Sad, and completely superficial, to say. But that’s what we need to get better at doing. It’s not just WHAT we’re selling. It’s HOW it’s sold.

And unfortunately, Dems stayed asleep while the GOP worker bees were BUSY-BUSY-BUSY building a messaging infrastructure. All throughout the late 80s and 90s.

1) Building and building. Planting, planting, and more planting of seeds that got very well tended and nurtured. First, destroying or otherwise rolling back all regulatory restrictions, limitations, and guard rails to the construction of media monopolies - to do what? Propagate the MESSAGING.

2) And building the support structures for generating and refining all that messaging: multiple “think tanks,” “institutes,” and “foundations” that could house the newly discovered players who could be assembled for writing and strategizing staffs, groomed to go on the air and on camera and in the Op/Ed pages and bookstores - they’d staff up with talent who could write cleverly and strategically (or learn how) to generate the messaging for those strategically-groomed talking heads who’d spread the messaging.

3) AND they’d be schooled in how to interrupt, motormouth, and otherwise dominate the chit-chat. How to make sure any opposing spokesperson was crowded out or out-shouted or over-ridden - not only to keep the desired messaging on full and up front, but also prevent opposing messaging from getting any air or sunlight.

This HAPPENED! And our team slept through the whole thing. Our side is only now waking up.

[AncientOfDays]

116. Perhaps a small change?

"defund the racist police" or "defund police racism"

Personally, I like the British model where the beat cops don't carry guns.

[albacore]

117. It's hard to convince some Americans, when they believe in Free-dumb...

I think this article is required reading.

"America became obsessed with free-dumb: the idea of freedom as the removal of all restraint, the right to harm others, the ability to do anything you please, no matter how destructive, toxic, foolish, or inane. Covid’s a jaw-dropping example of it. Think about the example above: it involves at least three levels of free-dumb. The right to “believe” Covid doesn’t exist, the right not to have to wear a mask, the right not to have to lock down. All these effectively add up to the idea that Americans should be free to infect anyone they please with a lethal disease. What on earth?
Where does this amazingly, jaw-droopingly stupid idea of free-dumb come from? Covid’s hardly some kind of anomaly. It’s part of a larger pattern. Americans — in the vast, vast majority — think of freedom in a way that by now the rest of the rich world and much of the poor one regards as dangerously backwards. Freedom is the right not to ever have to cooperate, to invest, to act for the common wealth or common good.
Why is America the only rich society in the world that doesn’t have effectively any public goods? No functioning healthcare, retirement, higher education, and so forth? Because of free-dumb. “I won’t pay for their healthcare, education, retirement!!” Why not? “They’re weak! They’re liabilities and burdens!! They cost me money!!” But wait, don’t you understand that means you won’t have those very same things yourself — because such social institutions are for everyone? “I don’t care! I won’t reward weakness and laziness! Such people need to be punished! And I should be free not to have support the weak!”
So goes the logic of the average American. The idea of free-dumb is something like this. Freedom means a gun, a beer, a Bible, and no rights for women and minorities. But textbooks and medicine and good food and water — those take away your freedom."

https://eand.co/how-freedom-became-free-dumb-in-america-baee33dc6476

[Normanart]

226. this is the answer

to the question, "How do you get people to vote against their own interests?" You canʻt fix stupid.

[flibbitygiblets]

119. It's much bigger than that

we need a new deal for the poor, the middle class, and rural America

[Jillgirl]

120. I just love a good dispute.

Agree with you that the choice of words matters and that it was a factor in our downticket losses. Disagree that that "sums up" "the reason for those losses."

At least in the Senate, we lost those races largely because of the way our system distributes representation. Some of that was fair and some was unfair.

The fair part is that with a Senate term lasting 6 years, and with two senators for each state, on average about two-thirds of states have Senate elections every even year, and this year they happened to be mostly states with Republican senators. Most of the senators elected this month were running for seats held by Republicans already. It just worked that way this year. Americans vote largely by party, so unless there is good, obvious reason for change, those who voted Republican six years ago could mostly be expected to vote Republican again this year.

The unfair part is two senators per state regardless of the state's population. Rural states tend to vote for Republicans.

[Alpeduez21]

121. Democratic messaging problem in a nutshell

Being considered a Socialist (Democrats) is worse than being a racist (Republicans).

[elleng]

123. Right, words have meaning, and repugs specialize in distorting and lying,

'persuading' their easily persuaded 'audience.'

[tiredtoo]

124. Makes little difference what Democrats do

The republicans are going to call it Socialism. However, if we expect to regain control of our government we must put people first over corporations. Payoff student loans or something along those lines.

[The Mouth]

141. FIRST we have to win

and win big enough. Which isn't going to happen while you have idiots using the phrases "defund the police", "Socialism", and other toxic phrases so beloved of the people who care more about purity than getting elected.

[The Mouth]

125. That phrase couldn't be dumber if the Republicans themselves coined it

and convinced us to use it.

[Mariana]

127. If you can figure out how to control which slogans protesters use

and how to stop them from saying stuff like "defund the police" please do share.

And it's not as if right-wingers have never used "socialism" as a boogeyman before.

[aggiesal]

129. I use ...

Profitization instead of using Privitization

Also use the phrase,
Healthcare not Wealthcare

[Historic NY]

133. Correct and once again the squad isn't helpful...

don't know what it will take for their learning curve, but since were not going back to normal. Were damn luck that defund the police didn't completely sink us. Some people think this country can do w/o police and that is how this torch got picked up. Words are like branding something Trump used to launch himself, he was relying on heavily along with other Republicans even now with Ga. Sen. on radicalized Democrats. Wake the f--k up Democrats or in two years we will be having the bloodbath.

[Gore1FL]

138. Yet it grew.

I am glad my rep, Cori Bush, is one of them, now.

[Gore1FL]

136. They have been smearing us with "Socialism" for years.

Maybe we should embrace it instead of running from it.

Social Security and Social programs are kind of our thing. Living wages, minimum income, accessible healthcare are things to be aspired to, not things to hide from.

Perhaps it would be best if we quit trying to push our values regardless of the way Republicans might lie about them later.

[llashram]

137. this

[hay rick]

140. "Defund the police" is a Republican smear, not a Democratic platform position.

For every time I heard an actual Democrat say we needed to defund the police, there were a hundred times I heard Republicans chant that Democrats want to defund the police. The media has been complicit in establishing and maintaining the meme.

[Historic NY]

143. Well they made Democrats own it.

don't keep blaming the media...thats just an excuse.

[Tommymac]

145. Disagree. The mass media drives the narrative.

They are a huge part of the problem.

[Dem4Life1102]

189. Very true

They love parroting GOP talking points.

[Pisces]

283. They got many politicians to say it like AOC which carried the narrative

[Blue Owl]

152. And more flipping the framing of these issues

For example, Greedy Donny (who paid $750 in taxes) along with all the other million/billionaires who cheat on taxes or push for tax breaks, are actually defunding the police right now. Would be nice to have this argument shoved back in their faces every time the issue gets brought up...

[SMC22307]

153. "War on women" and "patriarchy" are other losers. (n/t)

[aidbo]

155. 'Defund the Police' is not your slogan to change.

[David__77]

161. Good point. Moreover, it's not "the Democrats'" to change.

...

[Vivienne235729]

163. "Defund the police" was such a DOH! moment w serious repercussions.

Wish someone with more sense had spoken up and said, hey! That doesn't sound good. Maybe we should call it something else.

[Bettie]

166. So, what? Tell protestors

who are righteously angry about abuses what messages they may use?

Tell communities protesting murders by cops that their signage must be supportive of police while indicating slight displeasure with a specific incident? Insist that there be no protests in an election cycle (Spoiler Alert: it is ALWAYS an election cycle) and to just sit down and shut up and hope that maybe it gets better somehow?

Protests aren't supposed to make the power structure comfortable. They are supposed to be disruptive, in order to draw attention and force change.

Next up: "Understanding the Trump Voter" and making sure all messaging is in line with what they want. (sarcasm, but also too close to the truth in some cases)

[JonLP24]

175. I find it interesting no one has a problem with the "I can't breathe" slogan

What people complaining about this don't seem to realize I went through all this before when Kaepernick took a knee. There was a lot of people upset about that. People were even upset with the name Black Lives Matter saying "All Lives Matter" "Blue Lives Matter" white supremacists chanted "white lives matter". People suggested BLM change their name.

I dont think people realize I have been through all of these exhausting arguments before.

[Bettie]

193. Right? Actually, the thing in this stupid little town I live in

that got them all wound up was Black Lives Matter.

The white racist rednecks here hate it.

They know what it means, they know it doesn't mean they don't matter, they just don't believe that any lives but their own matter.

Every single thing protestors or Democrats say will be weaponized. It is that simple.

Remember: EVERY candidate we've fielded since I have been aware of politics has been "the most liberal" (senator, governor, etc.).

[Vivienne235729]

205. I agree that they will weapinize anythimg we say. But, hell. We don't need to help them

Or make it easy for them either.

[Vivienne235729]

204. Word it differently!! This isn't about alienating trump supporters!!

This is about alienting the moderates and independents bc of a WORDING problem bc someone didn't quite think this through. The mass amounts of people taking to the streets peacefully was a FAR bigger motivator for change than the stupid shock value of a poorly worded phrase that ended doing more damage than anything.

[Bettie]

222. "Moderates" and "Independents" who decide a wording problem

is a deal-breaker weren't going to vote for a Democrat, ever.

So, how do you keep republicans from using phrases put out, not by anyone in office, but by protestors?

How do you stop protestors from using "un-vetted" slogans?

The fact is, there is NOTHING that republicans won't find fault in and turn around in some way.

That is their genius, they can turn virtue into vice with constant repetition.

What we need to do is be better at pointing up their vices in one voice (which is how they do it) and constantly hammering it home. Don't even make it about our party, make it about their many deficiencies.

Make it about the fact that they are, at this point, literal fascists.

And hammer it over and over until it seeps into the brains of even the stupidest person able to turn on a television set.

[Vivienne235729]

228. You can't stop protesters from using whatever slogan they want.

But there are consequences to their actions whether we like it or not. And those moderates and independents are why Biden won. Without them, he wouldn't have won. Without them is why we didn't fare as well as we could have down ballot. And they didn't come up w that on the street on the sly. It was thought through and someone thought it was ok. It's not. It's rooted in much anger. And while I understand the frustration, our actions need to come from a place of strength. Not anger. Just like saying, "fuck the police". I get where it's coming from but again, but it doesn't have good optics or will do any good. So you can say it and it makes you FEEL better but it won't do shit to enact change.

I don't disagree w you on some things. But like it our not, optics matter and so do words and perceptions. We can be strong in our messaging without handing our opponents gifts on a silver platter. Don't be angry. Be smart.

[Bettie]

244. Optics...

Only Democrats worry about optics.

We never fight back. Never.

We just keep bringing casseroles to gun fights and wondering why we lose.

Ah well, at least we'll get the congeniality award...nah, they'll give that to Gym Jordan, because he's an asshole and proud of it.

[Vivienne235729]

252. Look. I am a big supporter in bringing a gun to a fight. But this was just stupid.

I get sometimes you have to be a little extremist. Like Alice Paul. But I also think there's such a thing as context and this stupid defunding the police and addressing racism in institutional racism diluted the message. Just look around. This isn't a theory. The proof is in the pudding. Defunding the police hurt us badly down ballot. But hey, let's rationalize it so that we don't have to admit we were wrong.

P.s. it's pretty naive to think optics, words, and perception do not matter in politics. Good luck enacting change w the "defunding the police" or in the same vein, "fuck the police" mantra. Want to get attention? Show up in huge numbers and show peaceful resistance. That's power. That caused more reforms than the ruckus of "shocking a system" bc it felt great or fed some ego.

[Bettie]

267. Fine. You win

Progressives existing at all and a single slogan used by protestors are the only reason seats were lost.

You need to find a way get rid of all of the progressives and work to move toward Republicans in policy to ensure that everyone feels 'comfortable'.

No more protests (got to tell communities that are getting abused that protesting isn't an option anymore, unless they do it in the way you want them to) and in a way that explicitly supports police who murder people and doesn't make anyone feel even a little bit uncomfortable.

Never do anything that might not be 100% acceptable to republicans.

So, yeah, I guess that's where we're moving, be republican-lite. Never demand or even nicely ask for change, just accept that we live in a country where cops killing people is acceptable becasue if you suggest anything else, you're the problem.

I'm done. I get it.

There really is no hope for any change. None.

[Vivienne235729]

277. I NEVER said any of those things. Never even implied it. But YOU sure think that.

Must make you feel better thinking that. Lets see how much reform you get with "fuck the police" and "defund the police" as your headliner. I'll keep my eye out for it. Smdh.

P.s. you must live in a VERY progressive place where this shit may fly. But I don't. I actually see what's out there and it's ugly AF.

[Bettie]

279. Actually, I live in a right wing area

the people here are generally awful. They hate...well, everyone except their small family groups, of course, most everyone in town is related to each other. We're not related to any of them.

We've been here 19 years and are still "new" people and I have no desire to befriend the majority of the assholes here. My few friends are also transplants who realized too late that once you buy a house here, selling it is nearly impossible because the town and state simply suck in every way.

They are still angry that "Black Lives Matter" is a thing, in fact, when a tiny group had a small ceremony, not even big enough to be called a rally, multiple people commented that black lives don't matter and shouldn't. They were angry that anyone would speak up against police violence in any way, becasue they believe that violence toward people who aren't them is good.

I guess we should jettison BLM too, since the racists don't like it.

There is NOTHING that would cause them to vote for anyone with even an ounce of compassion for anyone who isn't white. Nothing.

They go to church to get an extra dose of hate every Sunday, but that happens everywhere.

The fact still stands that you can not control what protestors put on their signs. Nor can you control what Republicans do with those messages or what messages they make up. But, good luck trying.

"Moderates" who say they are "undecided" and end up voting for Trump were never, ever going to vote for a Democrat. They just had enough shame to try to hide who and what they are at their cores.

I am done coddling them.

I get that our party will probably be conciliatory toward them, give them what they want, continue to start negotiations with "well, this is the least we'll accept" and take much, much less, but it is insanely frustrating to see.

But, hey I guess if it makes the right wing...well, they don't do happy and nothing makes them less nasty, so, if it makes them jubilant that they "owned" the left over and over, maybe one of them will some day vote for someone who has a scrap of humanity.

I doubt it.

[Vivienne235729]

280. No. You live w a bunch of assholes like I do. We STILL have them doing their stupid ass

Car rallies. STILL. We had to be extra careful when we went around putting up Biden/Harris signs bc we weren't sure what they would do. One trumper went and verbally harrassed one of our event organizers. But, through it all, they are NOT the majority. They're just loud and abnoxious as hell. But we found, we could be too when we want to be and not gonna lie. It felt great too.

But I'll tell you something. I NEVER would have thought AZ was going to turn blue this cycle. I knew we were purple and it seemed we were destined to remain purple forever. But I truly have to hand it to Trump. I give him full credit for AZ turning blue. His war with McCain accelerated the flip. When I saw Cindy McCain's ads and cover story in AZ Central, I knew we had it in the bag. I just didn't anticipate latino men going so much for trump. That was disappointing. But we'll learn and adjust for the next cycle. I bring this up bc had it not been for the Republicans and moderates here going for Biden, AZ would have stayed firmly in the red column. Had it not been for moderates and independents, Krysten Sinema and Mark Kelly wouldn't be our senators right now. We would forever be lost in the depths of hell in trumpland.

I worked w a superpac in PHX that represent Republicans for Biden. They did a TON of work and pumped a ton of money to get Biden elected. I helped them organize and get their AZ Republicans for Biden signs up in both the PHX and Tucson areas. When the democratic party was disorganized, they weren't. They had signs and everything ready to go. And they were so gracious. The dem party finally came through but they were slower. They nearly missed the boat. I organized groups of people to get our base moving. It worked in my little red area. I say that because not all moderates and independents are evil. We can work together for a common cause. I had several Republicans who helped me with signs tell me how they were lifelong Republicans and never thought they would be working (phone bank or otherwise) to get a Democrat into office. We were all moving out of our comfort zones to do whatever it took to get Biden a win. However big or small our victories were to get it done. It all adds up.

And one day within the next few election cycles, I hope we will move forward on a universal healthcare system, free college for everyone, flat tax rate, term limits, progressive environmental laws, etc. And until we accomplish those things, our fight is not over. We have a ton of work to do still. And I welcome everyone: moderates, indies, never trumpers. Everyone. It's all hands on deck until we get those things accomplished.

[Vivienne235729]

281. P.s. I think we have a lot of education to do. There is so much misinformation on BLM

You would be surprised what is out there!! I don't think it is always that people are racist as it is that they are ignorant (I know. Racist people ARE ignorant and there's plenty of them too). But, I think it is important for us to talk about these things. To bridge the gap and educate people on what Black Lives Matter REALLY means. I got into plenty of arguments w people I know online. I tell them BLM is not about being against law enforcement as it is about being against the RACISM IN law enforcement. That helps to take much wind out of their sails. Then they always bring up Defund the Police. And I've noticed that is a harder one to make people think. It is terribly worded and irrationally triggers people. It may work with the base, but for so many others out there, it is detrimental.

We talked about this in my group. We organized a counter BLM rally to their back the blue rally. And even within our dem group, there were still misconceptions (all affluent white men and women). We spent a couple days clarifying so that people understood what it entails. And that's people that are already democrats. But I'm lucky that in my group, there are a lot of highly intelligent people who are good at explaining and distilling the essence of things so that everyone is on the same page.

I mean no offense by this, but you sound really disheartened and I totally get that. It IS disheartening to live in a red area. It can wear you down and suck the life out of you. But you will be surprised how many progressives are out there. Even in very red areas. I live in a red area. I see trucks w the kkk symbol. I see trucks w enormous trump flags everywhere. Ridiculous bullshit. Go find a progressive group of like minded people. It will give you more hope. And when you start organizing and start DOING things together, it makes YOU feel better. It did for us anyways.

[JonLP24]

172. If we had a Democracy Democrats would have won in a landslide

Biden won the cities and suburbs of Detroit, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, & Atlanta so sorry if I don't buy defund the police cost us the election. Also Biden said "Shoot 'em in the leg" which isn't a solution.

I'm not sure why people are turning a local municipal budget issue a national issue.

Here is one reason why I will never stop advocating for defund the police.

People with Untreated Mental Illness 16 Times More Likely to Be Killed By Law Enforcement

https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/key-issues/criminalization-of-mental-illness/2976-people-with-untreated-mental-illness-16-times-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-law-enforcement-

What is your solution other than for me to STFU? Besides me African-americans are more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted, and sentenced to longer sentences.

I also don't give a fuck about a white backlash either.

White backlash (portmanteau whitelash) or white rage[1][2] (sometimes white rage backlash) is the negative response of some white people to the racial progress of other ethnic groups in rights and opportunities, their growing cultural parity, political self-determination or dominance.

As explored by George Yancy,[3] it can also refer to some white people's particularly visceral negative reaction to the examination of their own white privilege.[4][5] Typically involving deliberate racism and threats of violence, this type of backlash is considered more extreme than Robin DiAngelo's concept of white fragility, defensiveness or denial.[3]

It is typically discussed in the United States with regard to the advancement of African Americans in American society,[6] though it has also been discussed in the context of other countries, including the United Kingdom and South Africa with regard to apartheid.[7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_backlash

As far as socialism Republicans have been crying socialism since FDR. Nixon felt Americans needed a little bit of socialism to stop the spread within the country which is something both parties forgot.

[BannonsLiver]

176. I think part of the problem is also just general softness.

Exhibit A: There was a long thread yesterday about whether or not it was appropriate to make fun of Trump’s adult diapers.

[KG]

177. I lulz'd

[Grasswire2]

179. I have begged and begged for Dems to hire Lakoff for message strategy.

And to impose message discipline on our elected officials and party representatives.

Everyone seems to go it alone. And stupid consequences follow.

Defund the Police was an unforced error that possibly hurt our down ballot results.

Not every grassroots slogan ought to be promoted.

Hire a professional! Impose message discipline!

Or remain a majority ruled by a minority.

[Kaleva]

180. In MI, Dems made gains at the state level

Came very close to flipping the state House. Senator Peters won reelection convincingly.

[BGBD]

182. It's not really accurate to say we lost most of our downballots

We lost one impossible senate seat and picked up two. We forced both GA races to a runoff that we have very good shots at. We lost some house seats, but this was after a midterm where we picked up many of these same seats in very red districts. We should hav anticipated losing some of these seats in a high turnout general election.

urban
I think we could do a much better job of messaging and attracting rural voters, but we have a roughly equal chance at having unified government under Democrats and we beat Trump by something along the lines of 6 or 7 million votes. That's hardly "minority". Our problem isn't being in the minority as a party, it's the geographic distribution of our support and a system that puts urban areas at a massive disadvantage relative to their populations. So, again, we need to do a better job of attracting rural voters.

[JonLP24]

184. I don't think it is our messaging in rural areas

I do think our message could be improved if we explain the brand of socialism members of our party advocate for are actually mainstream policies in social Democratic countries such as Norway or Sweden.

I think it is Republican misinformation that is the problem.

This is the kind of thing Rural America deals with.

‘Antifa bus’ hoaxes are spreading panic through small-town America

Mythical buses full of bloodthirsty antifa protestors are causing panic in rural counties throughout the country — even though there’s no evidence they exist. The Associated Press has catalogued at least five separate rural counties where locals have warned of imminent attacks, although none of the rumors have been substantiated. Notably, the rumors are often tailored to a specific local region, a “hyperlocal” approach sometime used to boost the spread of misinformation on social media platforms.

NBC News first reported on the recent surge of antifa-related misinformation, some of which was promoted by white nationalist groups posing as antifa accounts. But even after the rumors were debunked, they continue to spread on Facebook, often inspiring real-life confrontations and instances of violence.

In Forks, Washington, a multi-racial family of four was harassed by armed locals, who believed they represented an antifa incursion. The family had arrived in town on a camping trip, traveling in a full-sized school bus. Local police say they were confronted by “seven or eight carloads” of people, who aggressively questioned them about their antifa connections. When the family attempted to drive off, locals felled trees across the roadway to prevent them from escaping. They were only able to leave after a group of students intervened.

In other cases, everyday bus charter businesses have been pulled into the confusion, treated as presumed troop convoys until proven otherwise. On Wednesday, an Idaho fleet services business was targeted by a minor panic, after a debunked rumor claimed incoming agitators were targeting the state. One local posted a picture of his bus on Facebook as evidence of the antifa incursion, claiming “this bus was full of them.”

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/5/21281581/antifa-bus-hoax-trump-misinformation-protests-police

[Kaleva]

190. In Mi, Trump got more votes in the urban counties then in the rural ones

[BGBD]

196. Our rural

Problems have been going on since aell before anyone ever heard of Antifa.

[JonLP24]

198. I was referring to the misinformation

I don't know about Michigan but Trump ran up the score in red rural areas in Arizona. A teenager tried to organize a BLM protest in Prescott and the right wing there reacted as if she was going to turn the small town into Portland.

[bigtree]

183. jfc

...it's this caterwalling about it which gave it effect.

This FALSE premise plays right into the republican meme. But complaining about it is supposed to be oh so brave, oh so courageous. For what? Giving credence to right wing propaganda?

What you want is for people to stifle their views to keep republicans from twisting those ideals into some political attack. Not only is that weak, it's complicit. You are doing little but perpetuating the distortions.

[coti]

192. It's not the message. It's the media CONTROL.

It's control of media that matters in this culture war. It wasn't any one issue or phrase that "lost" the election (that we didn't actually lose) for us- it's a comprehensive, consistent marketing strategy the GOP has been using for decades, combined with mobilization of their cultists. That "defund the police" phrase could have been used millions of times by liberals, or it could have been used three times- it doesn't make a difference. It was going to be amplified by the RW noise machine, either way, and used as one piece of red-meat mobilization to get their people to the polls. I personally wonder whether it was even started by liberals at all.

How many ACTUAL socialists did we run for office this election? Hardly any, as far as I know. Certainly, Joe Biden is one of the last Democrats I would ever call a socialist- yet, there he was, being labeled as one repeatedly by Trump. Because it's not the actual message or reality that matters in the media, it's CONTROL.

We need to develop our own media structures that subvert and overwhelm the right-wing media structures. We need to INVEST in marketing and image as intangibles to be cashed in for political power and policy. And we need to subvert, interrupt and damage the RW's media structures, as one does supply lines in a war.

[986racer]

195. Defund the police

Yes, unfortunately the message got away from the Democrats because nobody could pick a message on what it actually means.

However, the problem is that Democrats are letting Republicans dictate the message of what it means. They show videos of looting and rioting and say that this is what happens when there is no police.

Democrats need to start showing what happens in a police state. Show the videos of police attacking peaceful protestors. Find the times when white people are harassed and killed by police. Look, I believe most Republicans are racist assholes, so finding times when white people are harassed might wake them up to the idea that a police state is not what they want to have.

Let's also make up shit and say that all of their social media, Alexa, Siri, Google searches, etc is going to the police. How else did the Michigan police find out about the kidnapping plot? If we learned anything from the last 4 years, most Republicans will believe any dumb shit that comes out, and if it sounds like a conspiracy, they are more likely to believe.

I'm tired of trying to rebut their allegations with truth. The fact is that they don't want to listen.

Or, let's at least try to pass an amendment that someone needs to pass an IQ test to be allowed to vote.

[JonLP24]

197. Trump was clearly playing divide and conquer politics with the protests

Which also happened to be the largest protests in US & World history. We took down a monster who threw everything he had at us so we should be happy.

As far as what it means a 5 minute search will explain what it is. It is actually the moderate demand, there is also an Abolish the police movement so people need to be careful when they say stop using the defund slogan. Also Samantha Bee & Meyers went into great detail what the proposal asks for.

I can't help it if most Republicans are less informed than I was when I was 16 years old. We have the internet so we can research all sorts of different problems & solutions but instead many on the right look up Q bullshit.

[986racer]

199. Agreed that the truth is out there

But trying to defend/define what "defund the police" means that we are playing defense.

Let's go on the attack and start defining their position to force people to make a choice between a militarized police state and something more reasonable.

[Poiuyt]

200. And marketing professional will tell you how imporatant the message is

You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle! People don't elect a president based on his or her policies, they're voting for the image and how the candidate makes them feel.

This is a great discussion!

[MaeScott]

201. We should be tying the term Facist and Republican together 24/7....because they really are

[ahoysrcsm]

203. Spin it any way you like....

just remember, anytime you have to explain the meaning of a slogan, you are losing the argument. Because they already made up their minds.

We should distance ourselves from "defund the police" and "socialism." Anyone in the Democratic Party should be doing this.

Stop repeating conservative messaging.

[JonLP24]

206. I don't think Biden's suggestion to "Shoot them in the leg"

Was a good idea. I don't think No Malarkey or Build Back Better (same slogan as UK Conservatives) are great slogans either but he won.

Defund the police is the only serious policy proposal I have seen address that police budgets are very large, it also addresses that cops are asked to handle too much which is also something police also complain about. No cop in America agrees with "shoot them in the leg" because cops as well as military are trained to aim center mass. The slogan also traces the history of policing back to slave patrols and the general overall racist history of policing.

The slogan itself is supported by a plurality of Democrats & African-Americans. When you break it down by policies the poll numbers are even higher so the only conservative messaging are those taking the Republicans side on this policy. In the end it doesn't matter what you call it when the proposal is on the ballot. Cannabis legalization passed with 60% of the vote in Arizona (moderate Democrats delayed a vote on legalization because they were scared of the optics) with the name Smart & Safe Arizona Act. It is like No Child Left Behind which was really school privatization.

It is also a local city budget issue.

[ahoysrcsm]

208. All that text...

And the word "defund" is still defined by the Oxford Languages as "prevent from continuing to receive funds." Merriam Webster defines as " to withdraw funding from." Dictionary.com has two definitions "1. to withdraw financial support from, especially as an instrument of legislative control" 2. to deplete the financial resources of."

Maybe we could send a Thesaurus to the

plurality of Democrats & African-Americans.

I like your idea, lets get it on the ballot. Let America speak. Until then, lets stop using their definitions for our messaging.

[JonLP24]

209. I agree with the defunding

I agree with reducing police budgets and using the money on social services. I agree with the policy defund the police more than I support "Shoot them in the leg"

As far as getting it on the ballot. It already was and passed in some places.

Los Angeles voters just delivered a huge win for the defund the police movement

Los Angeles voters have approved Measure J, also known as “Reimagine LA County,” which requires that 10 percent of the city’s unrestricted general funds — estimated between $360 million and $900 million per year — be invested in social services and alternatives to incarceration, not prisons and policing.

As of Wednesday afternoon, with a majority of votes counted, 57.1 percent of voters supported the measure, 42.9 percent opposed, according to the Los Angeles County registrar.

The measure’s passage comes at a moment when activists across the US — including in LA — have called for defunding police departments. While Measure J isn’t directly a defund the police initiative, it was designed as an important first step toward the public health and investment-based model of public safety that animates the defund movement.

In practice, that is exactly what Measure J is likely to do. The measure’s language does not explicitly require that the funds for social services and incarceration alternatives must be diverted from law enforcement and the prison system. Nevertheless, in an August board meeting, acting county chief executive Fesia Davenport said that the Sheriff’s Department — which accounts for $2 billion of the existing local budget — would likely be impacted.

https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21549019/measure-j-police-abolition-defund-reform-black-lives-matter-protest-2020-election-george-floyd

So not buying it cost us the electon which we won.

[ahoysrcsm]

210. California is not Florida.

California is not Utah.
California is not Iowa.
Etc, etc, etc.
We are 50 different states with 50 different populations.

If we are only getting 57.1% support for funding social services expansion in LA county, that is very telling, Joe Biden won LA county with 71% of the vote.

[JonLP24]

212. Which is why Democrats should stop treating it as if it is a national issue

If someone doesn't want to defund their local police department they don't have to. We have over 11,000 police departments some worse than others. It just depends on the department.

We lose Florida with Gore, Hillary Clinton, during the midterms. I think the local Democratic infrastructure there needs a lot of improvement but I'm working on turning Arizona into East California. People should get upset at the electoral system which requires Democrats to win by 10 in order to win.

[highplainsdem]

207. I agree that we lost the messaging war there. Very thankful that Biden's a familiar enough

(and moderate enough) leader that the GOP had little success trying to attach those labels to him.

[Joinfortmill]

211. I think you're right.

Although, better educating our people would be a good thing, too.

[The Wizard]

213. Government jobs

are paid for with tax dollars for the greater good. In other words, socialism. Being a senior I tend to socialize with other seniors. The minute they start railing about socialism i tell them to get off Social Security and Medicare.
Taxes are the price we pay for the civil society as prescribed in the Constitution's preamble: "promote the general welfare."

[reggaehead]

214. Kind of a silly post

Actually, not a well thought out post at all. We gained a Senate seat. Potentially we can gain 2 more. We lost approx. a dozen house seats in Primarily red districts during an election year. We did NOT lose the House. What has to be considered is the number of votes it takes to win these seats. It is far easier for fascists to win than Democrats. The system is rigged. Against Patriots aka Democrats.

[BigDemVoter]

215. Many Americans have poor or no understanding of the word, socialism.

I have even heard Trumpsters saying that WW2 was fought against "sociaists", as they do not get the different between a true socialist and a "National Sociaist", i.e. Nazi. . . . Furthermore, they don't grasp the fact that THEIR party resembles the Nazi Party in many ways. And they CERTAINLY don't understand that Communist Russia was our ALLY during WW2.

Had Bernie been nominated, that would have been all we would have heard in attack ads, and we already heard the word plenty with Biden and Harris. I still don't get WHY it's such a dirty word in America. I remember George H.W. Bush using the fact that Dukakis was a member of the ACLU against him. . . . Despicable. If that's the way they want to play, I don't see why we don't use the "Nazi" card a bit more freely.

[Catch2.2]

217. Agree 1000%

Republicans are good at campaigning, Democrats...not so much.

[Mr.Bill]

218. I agree with much of what you said,

but saying most of our Congresspeople lost is very incorrect.

[bucolic_frolic]

220. Republicans turned out for Joe and voted Republican down-ballot

We'lll adjust. We need millennials to be educated on the Progressive Era, 1900-1910.

Money is a problem.

Joe is smart. November 2020 is not November 2024.

But prepare for the Greatest Depression. Some kind of financial implosion is imminent. Money is worthless (0%), jobs other than essential are few, the pandemic is still rolling, and this is worldwide. Growth no matter what has failed, which is a good thought.

And fat Hitler will be 77 in four years. Obesity is not a longevity asset.

[uponit7771]

223. Your feelings aren't proof and not established enough to trust

[TheFarseer]

229. My take

We lost a lot of races because the Republicans threw a lot of stuff at the wall and a lot of it stuck because it went largely unchallenged or was very poorly explained by our side. The two biggest examples of this was defund the police and Covid lockdowns. Right or wrong almost no one wanted to lockdown. Being the party of shelter in place was not helpful. Want proof? Biden didn’t dare say he wanted a lockdown in the debate.

[Yavin4]

233. Nearly half of this country wants Facist Authoritarianism

Stop providing excuses for them. Not one single Democratic candidate any where called for Defunding the Police or Socialism.

[paulkienitz]

235. Venezuela and Norway are about equally socialist.

The difference is not which is more socialist, but which is more democratic.

[TigressDem]

237. "Defund the Police" is the means to separate from the crooked Unions that protect bad cops.

It was a way for the council to step up and say, "No more" in Minneapolis when the George Floyd death happened at the hands of a cop who had 19 excessive force complaints against him but was never made accountable for them.

I agree that it was BAD rhetoric to describe a much needed action that moves funds towards more ways to de-escalate than persecute when dealing with difficult situations.

AND socialism has been linked to communism because of Marxist theory. The original ideas presented were partially used. BUT socialism never intended for the government to rule everyone and take all their rights away. Like you said, Fascism.

RULE BY THE ELITE AND POWERFUL IS A PROBLEM, no matter what name it is called.

Democracy was supposed to have enough checks and balances to prevent that by putting the majority of the power in the hands of "We the People." It is being tested in the extreme right now.

tRump and his predecessors are trying to remove all the impediments to allowing the rich to be the ruling class and the rest of us to grovel and beg for our lives.

tRump fires anyone who disagrees with him and pardons murderers. Someone like that should be on medication in a locked room, not in charge of the US of A.


I would say that SOME Republicans are NOT like the rest. There is the Lincoln Party and the SOC of Georgia stood up to a lot of pressure to stop the count of legitimate votes. There are SOME breaking from the ranks and saying too much is too much. We will NEVER get the stink off of ourselves if we don't distance ourselves from the tRump temper tantrums.

I hope that any of the Republicans who have a SHRED of decency left will TAKE back their party and kick the sickos out of it.

I don't actually expect they have the power any more, but this IS their mess and I wish WE didn't have to clean it up by ourselves.

[BobTheSubgenius]

239. You're exactly right.

The GOP has been winning the battle of messaging and bumper-sticker slogans. A big part of it is almost unavoidable. The Big Tent covers the extreme left (of the party, not the extreme left of the whole political world) and they will just NOT stay on message.

And they are so flighty, yet so determined. As soon as they sense their goal slipping out of reach because of party unity...or at least, general agreement, they pick up their marbles and go home. Or vote 3rd party....or write in another "candidate."

I can't even see what a solution might look like.

[Gothmog]

241. Democrats Grapple with Downballot Losses

Democrats lost a good number of downballot races that we should had won https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/22/democrats-grapple-with-downballot-losses/

“Heading into the election, Democrats dreamed it would go something like Star Wars, with rebel forces blowing up the Death Star and celebrating in the streets as a blue wave swept them into power in Washington and state capitals across the country,” NBC News reports.

“But President-Elect Joe Biden’s victory ended up looking more like the horror movie Alien, with the last bedraggled survivor kicking the monster out the airlock and then drifting off to an uncertain fate in deep dark space. And wherever they ended up, there would probably be another alien.”

“Yes, Biden soundly defeated President Trump — and there was even some partying in the streets — but the results were brutal down the ballot for Democrats in ways that could haunt them for years.”

[seta1950]

246. All very negative , I think

[58Sunliner]

248. And 30% did not vote in this election.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

251. Cyrano, I agree about "DEFUND THE POLICE" phrase. I ALWAYS felt that the purpose would be better

accepted, just by slightly tailoring the phrase to say:

"DE-MILITARISE the POLICE"

because as a decent society, we do NOT need MILITARY armaments just sitting by to be used against their fellow citizens in an actual democracy. After all, military equipment is used in WARS, NOT against the citizenry of one's OWN country. Though, to be honest, as a black woman, I've always been aware that this is the state of life for people who look like me. So....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

253. We are NOT a minority party. We are victims of dirty tricks, voter suppression, gerrymandering. USA

USA is fundamentally progressive, liberal and Democratic, when properly analyzed.

The only useful advice you offer is to frame the language around issues. RepubliCONs have studied framing and language and are masters at propaganda.

Short term Democrats need to pay attention to that technique.

Long term, the country needs to educate young people more about civics, logic, critical thinking, and how to recognize and discount propaganda.

[Soxfan58]

254. Totally agree

You should have slogans that don't need to be explained.

[BasicallyComplicated]

255. Horse shit!

The problem is Democratic cowardice! Sorry but we will be labeled communist and worse if we run on anything that helps people. We have become the party of Blacks and minorities, Abortion, Gays and Atheist to most of the country. We need to embrace it and stop running from it because guess what? They will say that's what we are anyway. We can't explain positions if we play like they aren't important to us. I have always stood on my issues and I live in what was once a Red county here in GA. Lol.
I recall a water cooler debate where a coworker tried the "you are ok killing babies sh*t with me." I said sure I do. Full stop. What does that have to do education spending. (The original topic). She was stonewalling in her tracks because it was her pivot point to some other nonsense. Right wingers do it to us all the time and like Elmer Fudd we fall for the trick every time. You're a socialist. Yep and you are a racist. Full stop. You want to defund the police. Yep until they stop killing unarmed American, not one more dime. Force these talking points to real issues. Stop running to milk toast middle ground that NO one believes in. No one likes Republican lite!

[jimlup]

260. +1

[jimlup]

258. Without reading further I dismiss the post because

we are definitely NOT the minority party. That is blatantely false and a trivial check of nation wide vote totals for congress confirm this clearly.

Get your facts straight ...

[TheCowsCameHome]

259. Agree 1000%

Those words kill us.

[R B Garr]

261. You are correct. Analysis of the election results points to

wanting to get rid of the top of the ticket by replacing Trump but then rejecting Democratic candidates, and that’s from the fatal messaging which was accompanied by visuals from the rioting.

It’s obvious that’s the case when Congressional candidates were using AOCs name, “Biden will be beholden to AOC” in Southern California even — tying her Twitter account to every single one of our candidates. Every single one. Time to get smart about this.

Defund the police and socialism were disasters resulting in voters flipping us the bird. No doubt about it.

[luv2fly]

264. And "radio"

That's my fifth word to add to your four. We get creamed on the airwaves... cities, rural areas, everywhere. Dems need to fund radio stations across the country even if it loses money. Or not, and continue to let the Republicans get their message out unchallenged.

[melman]

273. When centrists win it's because centrism is what it takes to win...

...when centrists don't win it's be because the left made them lose.

[Demovictory9]

282. Dems have the presidency, more than half the House, almost half the senate (regardless of GA outcome

How are Dems the minority party?

[Catch2.2]

289. This thread needs to be a stickie!

[Gothmog]

291. Why Republicans are resorting to anti-socialism hysteria

Link to tweet

Stoking fear of “socialism” is a familiar refrain from right-wing populists and wannabe authoritarians. It goes hand in hand with efforts to define who counts as a “real” American, painting the country as under siege from foreign influences — immigrants, socialists and secularists. When Republicans in high dudgeon carry on about the demise of “Western civilization” and the threat of socialism, they are tapping into a mind-set that casts anti-Trump forces as an existential threat to the United States.

As Robert P. Jones, chief executive of Public Religion Research Institute and the author of “White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity,” told me back in August, “references to saving or protecting ‘Western civilization’ are commonly used as a euphemism for White culture or identity by white supremacist groups. ... This language — captured also in the ‘Make America Great Again’ rhetoric — is about preserving an ideal of a White Christian America, protecting it from the changing culture and demographics in the U.S.”,,,,

If the alternative is national destruction, then what’s the problem with a little narcissistic excess, you see? Likewise, if Biden and company are “socialists,” then any lie and any act of obstruction in defense of “real America” are justified.

All of these rhetorical strategies — hollering about national suicide or hyperventilating about “socialism” or inveighing about the downfall of Western civilization — simply amount to the right frantically searching for ways to infuriate and frighten its base. It seeks to instill an ends-justify-the-means mentality (you might have to overturn an election or two) and steer politics out of the realm of facts. The question in the years ahead will be whether some segment of the Republican Party calls out this nuttery and demands a return to rational political discourse. Right now, the hysterics have the party by the throat.