Cori Bush: It's not a slogan. It's a mandate for keeping our people alive. Defund the police.

[melman]

Link to tweet

[elleng]

1. REFORM!

CAN'T use foolish, emotional crap like 'defund.'

[MadLinguist]

11. do you know how long the 'reform the police' effort has gone on

and how just exactly the degree of nothingness it has accomplished?
This expectation that protest movements okay their messaging with politicians like some kind of marketing survey service -- THAT is what is crap.
What is foolish is to expect that police unions and the Fraternal Order of Police are going to ever hear any demands for change without an existential threat accompanying said demands.
Money in the public sphere has to be talked about openly and authentically.
"Reform" as a concept does not do any of those things.

The democratic party loses its momentum not by failing to placate those to its right, but by failing to embrace the ideals on its left. Blaming the foundering majority in congress on the messaging of protest groups is a failure of proper analysis of the electorate. Centrism keeps the status quo moving ever rightward

[elleng]

14. SORRY, but THESE days 'centrism' keeps the Democratic party thriving.

REAL reform by those who understand the need and the mechanisms is crucial.

[stopdiggin]

25. here's another Democrat

that's (apparently) "failing to embrace the ideals on its left."

Obama is right, it's a dumb ass slogan. Doesn't mean sh*t in the real world -- and undoubtedly cost the Democrats votes this year.

You want to come back with health care, child care, student debt, free tuition, green energy, DACA, tax reform, gig labor reform -- or any one of a hundred other positions and proposals, and you have all of my attention. But please -- this poor horse is really, really DEAD, and you need to stop flogging it!

[radius777]

44. Yup. The RW would demonize BLM

and the desire for police reform regardless of whatever slogan was used. Kapernick kneeled silently and was hated by many. The underlying problem is White America's racial fears - this is why right-wing attack ads since Willie Horton have worked. It's not about the slogans it's about people. Dems need to confront these issues in a bold way, challenge voters - instead of always being afraid of our own shadow and allowing the RW to define us.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

56. Reform is what led to George Floyd. The system cannot be reformed.

[Lancero]

96. REFORM SLAVERY!

CAN'T use foolish, emotional crap like 'abolish.'

[Blue_true]

2. President Obama is right.

We are not going to change much at all if poorly thought phrasology keep losing winnable races for us at the National, state and local levels

[Gothmog]

26. I agree

[Chicago1980]

3. He's right and she needs to learn about wording and phrasing...

[wellst0nev0ter]

98. She won her race

Unlike other Democratic candidates to the right of her.

[Chicago1980]

100. And congratulations to her...

Others elsewhere didn’t because that phrase worked against them.

That shit don’t play everywhere.

Especially in rural white that may have more conservative democratic representation.

Phrasing and wording matter and democrats are aloof to that it seems.

[dsc]

101. In a race where once she won the primary virtually any person could have won with a D by their name

[Suburban Warrior]

4. You can't fix problems

if you don't win elections. And "Defund the Police" is not a winning message.

[Thekaspervote]

7. +1000

[Cha]

10. Hell No it is NOT.. & James Clyburn is

absolutely correct.

[George II]

72. I trust Barack Obama's and James Clyburn's instincts and opinions on this.

[betsuni]

73. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

12. They said the same thing about marriage equality.

I guess it just shows who or what you want to throw overboard for politics.

[betsuni]

22. Like saying "I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue" in order not to alienate

more conservative voters.

[melman]

23. Like saying...

"Because I believe marriage means something different. Marriage is about a historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been between a man and a woman."

[betsuni]

24. That person never pretended not to have evolved on the issue.

People who say this did: "I'm not evolving when it comes to gay rights. I was there."

[Gothmog]

35. We literally lost this seat over Defund the Police.

Link to tweet

[wellst0nev0ter]

99. Rose spent the entire race trying to placate a smear campaign

His only response to "Defund The Police" is "Pay the Police More." He ran against DeBlasio and AOC, and still lost.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/17/max-rose-nyc-house-race-430005

[BainsBane]

87. The problem isn't the ideas for reform

It's the slogan. Now, if the name matters more to you then getting change implemented, stick with "defunding the police," because that is guaranteed to accomplish nothing.

I personally think the situation with policing in the US is far too serious to make the debate over naming rather than reform.

[Gothmog]

36. We literally lost this seat over Defund the Police.

Link to tweet

[Kahuna]

58. DING DING DING DING DING DING! nt

[dalton99a]

5. It is a stupid slogan that hurts Democrats.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Just like "gay marriage" was in 2004

Good thing the activists back then didn't listen to all the second-guessers.

[MadLinguist]

19. !! precisely!!

[George II]

42. That's why it became known as "same sex marriage".

[lame54]

50. The way global warming became climate change

[George II]

69. Exactly. When a slogan generates negative connotations and comments it's wise to change that slogan.

[wellst0nev0ter]

77. Didn't matter what we called it back then

[Polybius]

83. So you're saying that "Defund the Police" will be the norm with us in 2036?

Uh no, not a chance. If it is, I'm out.

[relayerbob]

6. No, it's a license for the GOP to double down on repression.

Most idiotic phrase ever. Who created it? I bet it wasn’t American leftists

[Kahuna]

59. Activists on the ground created it. Maybe they weren't even voters. nt

[relayerbob]

66. On the ground in Moscow, is my wild guess

[Cha]

8. Thank YOU, President Obama!

& it was reported that "defund the police" wasn't a thing in the 2020 elections, where Flipped House Seats, from red to blue from 2018, were Lost.

There it is .. right there. As is said.. you have to WIN ELECTIION Before you can make Changes.

[Prof.Higgins]

13. Excellent point here, Cha. NT

[Cha]

15. TY, Prof.. you make excellent points in

Post #9, too. President Obama knows what he's talking about.

It's not bloody Rocket Science!

[bluestarone]

53. AGREE!!!!

[Prof.Higgins]

9. Pres. Obama was Ill. legislator for many years and knows how self-destructive

an irrational slogan like "defund police" can be to the very systemic police reform objectives that Democratic Party leaders at all levels of government are striving to achieve. Show some genuine respect for not only Pres. Obama' political efforts but also his earlier work as a community organizer. They are the basis for his advice on this critical matter.

[tritsofme]

16. President Obama is absolutely correct, it is a terribly dumb and out of touch slogan.

She would be wise to heed his sage advise instead of turning up her nose.

[AmericanCanuck]

17. Suicidal slogan championed by the fringe

Defunding police is seen as a call to anarchy and will always put Democrats on the defensive.

We need police. We need less militarized, less hair-trigger, more diverse and racially sensitive police.

Using tweets to make the fan club of a fringe cheer means we will always be on the defensive and will suffer electoral losses. If we lose, the police will never be reformed. It is irresponsible to go against President Obama because some younger leaders want to achieve notoriety and fame.

[R B Garr]

84. Exactly. Obama is right. And the brand building is

rather futile considering all their losses piling up. Time to get smart about this.

[pat_k]

20. Reallocate police funding to more effective programs

"Defund" completely fails to capture the actual "ask." It's not much of a "slogan," but we need something that captures the concept that funding must be diverted to more effective programs -- programs that reduce the need for policing as we know it.

Also, diverting funds is NOT enough. "Policing as we know it" is dysfunctional. It is not the ideal example, but we need something akin to the "reboot" in Camden in jurisdictions across the nation. There is no other way the sort of changes that are needed can get done within the existing institutions/contracts.

[tonedevil]

32. No one has objected to...

defunding schools for the past 50 years.

[EX500rider]

41. When did that happen exactly?

[pat_k]

46. I see nothing about being adjusted for inflation.

Furthermore, I see nothing about WHERE the expenditure per student has increased, and where it has decreased. Only a meaningful comparison of total expenditure per student in affluent vs. poor communities has any meaning. Our goal must be EQUITY. High quality schools regardless of the economic status of the community served. There has been no progress on that score.

[EX500rider]

52. If both State & Fed budgets have gone up every year there has been no "defunding" nt

[pat_k]

55. Ignores both points I made.

Without adjustment for inflation, it is impossible to determine if it actually "went up" in terms of real dollars.

And without accounting for spending in affluent vs. deprived, poor quality schools, there is no way to know if any additional funds (if there were any) are being spent in a way the creates a more equitable system. Furthermore, raw numbers say absolutely nothing about dollars relative to enrollment. That is, it says nothing about expenditures per student.

The chart says nothing meaningful that would be relevant to a discussion about policy or a discussion of what is called for to make positive change and improve outcomes.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. In That Chart...

...'97-'98 is $361 billion. In 2004-2005, it's $536 billion.
An increase of $175 billion in 7 years.
175÷361= 0.4848, or 48.48%.
Inflation over that period averaged 3%. Let's use 3%.
3% over 7 years is 1.2299.
That is an increase, adjusted for inflation. That's even if we adjust for modest population increases over 7 years.
Your point on distribution of funds across strata is fair.
But, there's no evidence of reduced funding in that chart.

[pat_k]

71. Thanks!

I found an expenditure per student since 2000 in constant 2018-2019 dollars. It's gone up and down a bit. In 2017 we were at about the level we were in 2008-2009.

Although there has been an overall increase over the period, the actual trajectory doesn't mirror that chart.

I should have found this earlier. In my annoyance at what appeared to me to be a misleading chart I responded too quickly.

Current expenditures per pupil

Increased from $10,675 in 2000–01 to $12,435 in 2008–09

Decreased between 2008–09 and 2012–13 to $11,791,

Increased to $12,794 in 2016–17.

Link with graph:
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

School funding is a crucial topic. The inequities in the quality of education is a pillar of systemic racism that must be addressed as urgently as police brutality and the broken justice system that supports mass incarceration. That said, in the back and forth, we've strayed a bit from the point I attempted to make originally (post #20).

[ProfessorGAC]

76. Your Last Paragraph

Totally agree.
As a sub I work in 13 districts.
One district to the west services a population of around 9,000. (Not kids, total population.)
The high school has 3(!) gymnasiums.
A tiny town has a district southwest of me. The gym is not big enough to put 3 point lines on the floor. These 2 schools are 5 miles apart!
One district, last year was paying subs $90/day. The median home price is $385k.
Another district pays $115, but median home price is $187k.
Just a couple examples of how disparate the funding & priorities are, all within 20 miles of where we live.

[pat_k]

78. It is amazing.

My sister-in-law works as a sub in NJ. (My former home.) There are also some amazing disparities in the quality of schools there. NJ is kind of unique. Under "home rule," there are about 610 school districts in the state, some tiny and wealthy, some enormous and diverse -- or poor, depending on the area incorporated.

There are a number of wealthy townships that were carved out of larger, more diverse townships for the sole purpose of being able to set up their own schools, policing, etc. For example, wealthy Metuchen was formed smack dab in the middle of Edison. (See this map. The red bit is Edison. The grey bit in the middle is Metuchen. The other borders shown within Middlesex county are other townships. The little "enclaves" you see scattered around are generally very wealthy areas that formed their own townships.) It is pretty awful. The larger townships lose a lucrative tax base, and the little wealthy townships can afford top notch schools for their wealthy kids with no worries about the "rabble" from neighboring townships.

[pat_k]

74. A more accurate chart.

See the post above (link below). The more accurate chart shows decreases from about 2009 to 2013

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214648243#post71

[marie999]

60. Just taking inflation into account, 2005 would be $375 billion.

[pat_k]

45. On the contrary. . .

. . .many have opposed it, and have been resisting and trying to reverse the agenda. Given, the people condemning "defund the police" are the same ones pushing to defund the schools, but I don't think it is comparable.

I'm not arguing against what is being called for under the "defund" slogan -- i.e., put the money into alternate response, like unarmed people trained in deescalating. Divert money to programs addressing mental health, drug addiction, homelessness, and investing in community programs. Boosting funding for those programs beyond that which would be diverted from police.

There are an incredible number of articles with some form of the topic "what 'defund' means." This is a symptom of the problem with the slogan. It needs to be explained. And only people who are interested will bother to learn what it really means. For a vast majority, it's taken at face value, and that "face value" is opposed. Simply "defunding" doesn't start a conversation about what to divert those funds to and how effective the programs that would be funded have proven to be in reducing crime in the few areas they have been implemented.

Tragically, "defund schools" means just that, no more, no less. Make our education system ever more wildly inequitable.

[awesomerwb1]

21. Absolutely idiotic slogan.

Did I mention how idiotic it is? Brought to you from the people who love to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

[ck4829]

29. Meanwhile, this is the "absolute genius" that is "fund the police"

Louisville police release Breonna Taylor incident report – it lists her injuries as "none"

By Audrey McNamara

June 11, 2020 / 1:12 PM / CBS News

Police in Louisville, Kentucky, released a nearly-blank incident report Wednesday from the night Breonna Taylor was fatally shot in her own apartment by officers. Despite the fact that the 26-year-old EMT was shot at least eight times during the no-knock search, the report listed Taylor's injuries as "none."

Police also checked "no" next to the box that says "forced entry" on the form, but witnesses and crime scene photos show officers used a battering ram to force entry into the apartment while Taylor was asleep.

Multiple attempts by CBS News to contact the department about the report were unsuccessful.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisville-police-breonna-taylor-death-incident-report/

Did I mention how smart these guys are?

[stopdiggin]

27. With respect, a mandate is something that comes

from having power. And that's kind of the whole point here. (and why Obama, once again, knows what he's talking about) "Defund" remains a slogan ginned up on the fringes -- and a pretty dumb one at that.

[ibegurpard]

28. Take everything you want to accomplish with it

And call it something else. JFC... why is that so hard to understand?

[Spider Jerusalem]

30. I don't have a problem with it

if you can come up with a better way to frame "stop giving cops military hardware" than "defund the police" I'd love to hear it.

[Gothmog]

37. Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police

[SammyWinstonJack]

85. +1.

[Progressive Jones]

31. The phrase is too simplistic. Sorry. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Why are people so insistent on dying on hills for a specific word?

Some words work, others do not.

"Defund the Police" never really worked and it created a useless distraction from the greater conversation.

We can let it go and still have that conversation. It's really not a big deal. We aren't giving up anything of consequence by rephrasing the conversation in a better way.

[Gothmog]

34. Obama Says 'Defund The Police' Alienates Voters, Drawing Sharp Rebuke From The Left

I trust President Obama on this issue

Link to tweet

Former President Barack Obama drew criticism from progressive Democrats this week for suggesting that “snappy” slogans like “defund the police” are alienating voters and making it harder from a political standpoint to enact “changes you want done.”

In an interview with Peter Hamby, who hosts the Snapchat political show “Good Luck America,” Obama said “you [lose] a big audience the minute” a slogan like “defund the police” is used, making “it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done.”

“Defund the police” refers to the reallocation or redirection of government funding from police departments to social services for minority communities. As Rashawn Ray of the Brookings Institution noted, defunding does not mean the abolishment of police departments but instead “highlights fiscal responsibility” and “advocates for a market-driven approach to taxpayer money.”....

Obama ― echoing other centrist Democrats who’ve similarly taken issue with “defund the police” and what they’ve decried as radical messaging ― told Hamby that Democrats could benefit from adopting softer rhetoric when talking about police reform.

“If you instead say, ‘Hey, you know what? Let’s reform the police department so that everybody’s being treated fairly. And not just in policing, but in sentencing, how can we divert young people from getting into crime?’” he said.

[George II]

38. So she's doubling down on that slogan (which it IS) and calling out President Obama about it?

Even if I disagreed with Obama, which I rarely if ever have, I'd show him the respect he deserves.

I've been around the block many times over the last 50+ years, and anytime I see or hear "with all due respect" it invariably means the opposite.

[Peacetrain]

39. Yep... with all due respect equals bless his heart.. it is an insult.

about up to my eyebrows with the self righteous sanctimony of the squad..

[NurseJackie]

47. Well bless her heart, she seems to not understand what "mandate" means.

... up to my eyebrows with the self righteous sanctimony...

Preach!

[treestar]

65. Who even is she?

I have not heard of her until this post.

[Vinca]

40. Okay, so we defund the police. Then what? A guy breaks into your house

and you grab your cell and lock the bedroom door and no one answers 911. Then what? Stupid phrase that is believed 100% by people who are inclined to vote for Republicans anyway. If Cori wants to stay in the minority and get nothing done, then continue with the stupid chants and never bother to explain about diverting some police funding to mental health workers and social services to assist police in doing jobs that were dumped on them. She should listen to Obama on this one.

[maxsolomon]

48. Vinca, binary & hyperbolic hypotheticals like yours make me insane.

Your scenario is implausible and highly unlikely.

If I say "Defund the Military" no one thinks I mean ELIMINATE the Military; they know it means REDUCE THE BUDGET. I mean, unless you WANT to misunderstand.

Frankly, the English Language does not have an elegant, "snappy" word for "Reduce Police Budgets away from military and violent responses and re-direct those monies towards Social Services in order to save lives."

[Vinca]

51. OMG - you are so overestimating the Republican mind. Why do you think so many down ballot

Democrats lost? This is so, so stupid. Republicans hear "defund the police" and by God, they're going to go vote to keep the Democrats out because they want to be able to call the police when they need them. If anything, they want to send more funds to the police. Meanwhile, the Democratic candidate tries to explain what is meant by the phrase - not a literal defunding of the police - and goes down in flames. Just stop with the stupid memes already. The Squad is well intentioned, by they need a fast course in politics and Barack Obama is the person to listen to. Once the genie is out of the bottle - in this case the phrase "defund the police" - it can't be pushed back in and forgotten. Democrats could be paying for this one into the next election.

[maxsolomon]

54. So your scenario was a hypothetical Republican reaction?

It came off as YOUR scenario, which is frankly how a lot of DUers react to the phrase.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

[JI7]

75. It's not just partisan Relevance Republicans that think that way

Think of the idiots who thought Trump was a good business person becsuse of that stupid show.

[Vinca]

90. The bottom line is people can spend their time and energy defending 3 words or forget

the words and get people elected who can change the policy.

[maxsolomon]

91. The GOP will NEVER let us forget those 3 words.

Trump, the GOP, and the RWNM will use it like they use Socialism, even though exactly jack shit changed about policing as a result of activists yelling it for a month.

Myself, I prefer NWA's phrase: Fuck the Police.

[treestar]

64. That would come across with De-militarize the police

that word is more specific.

[maxsolomon]

89. I've bandied that one about.

Defund = 2 syllables

Demilitarize = 5 syllables

[uponit7771]

93. hmmm

[PragmaticLiberal]

81. We both agree on the meaning of "Defund the Police"....

But I've encountered quite a few people who literally mean Defund The Police.

When I asked what they wanted to replace them with the response was "Community policing"

[maxsolomon]

88. Are they in charge of the Democratic Party? City Governments?

Nope, they're a small % of activists.

Seattle has a contingent that regularly shows up to scream "No Youth Jails", and they literally mean that. But I don't hold the City Council or Mayor responsible for that phrase.

[uponit7771]

92. +1, I'm thinking whatever slogan used was going to be demonized no matter what.

[Humanist_Activist]

68. She lives in North St. Louis, in that scenario, you get shot, by the cops...

we have segregated fucking police unions in the City, its fucking insane, and the county cops have a shitload of military equipment they are itching to use on the nearest POC they can see. We also have a shit ton of little police departments from the 90+ munis in STL County alone whose sole job is to fund their cities using traffic citations. Never mind the Ferguson PD, who are just one of many that have been caught violating the rights of their own citizens regularly. Hell, just weeks before Mike Brown was shot, they mauled 14 year old kids with police dogs for trespassing on abandoned buildings. Fuck defunding the police, we should abolish them, what good do they do for any community?

[Hav]

49. Such an idiotic slogan

Why are people so stubborn to cling to a dumb slogan when they rather want to express something else while knowing how it's interpreted by many?

If this bs continues, in part by Dems in 30+ districts not giving a damn about Dems in swing districts, then the Dems might actually lose the House in the next midterms. Good luck getting anything done by losing political power.

[gulliver]

61. If worse came to worst, we could do without the votes of the tiny few who say "defund the police."

If we come out strongly against defunding the police, we'd lose at most a tiny fraction of voters from our liberal/progressive ranks while pleasing the vast majority of us by using a better goal/slogan. Then, we'd more than make up for the loss of the few "defund the police" fanatics by picking up liberal/progressive independent voters (of diverse races and ethnicities most likely) who think it's foolish.

It would actually gain us votes to have the folks who like to say "defund the police" outraged and against us. That would enable us to reform policing, end the drug war, etc.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. Good luck changing the status quo without getting enough Dems elected.

You can be as right and righteous as you want to be, but you won't bring about serious change without Democrats controlling enough levers of power.

[treestar]

63. Then there needs to be proof that using "defund"

will lead to more elected representatives who will support reforms.

President Obama made a better case that it led to the election of fewer such representatives.

[986racer]

67. We need a simple phrase that means "Hold Police Accountable"

[cbdo2007]

70. Yep good idea, let's stop paying police officers...

Good luck getting them to work for free.

[BainsBane]

79. Explain to us what it means then

Does it mean ending all funding to police? If it doesn't, then there is something wrong with the name.

Is the goal to actually enact police reform or to win a pissing match over slogans?

[KWR65]

80. BS The police do an excellent job.

Less than 1% of them do it wrong. Those that do wrong should be criminally prosecuted, but the majority are humans just like you and me and are doing the job as best as they can.

[BainsBane]

86. Now that is BS. nt

[uponit7771]

95. The 1% who do it wrong don't face consequences. Folk know LEOs aren't perfect but they shouldn't ...

... have near immunity

[Polybius]

82. Ugg, this doesn't help

I have no problem at all with very liberal Democrats like AOC, but once you get beyond her, it becomes extreme. Had Bush ran against Trump instead of Biden, Trump wins 45 states. Biden and his moderation are the keys to winning.

[USALiberal]

94. Obama is correct!!! Nt

[KG]

97. I lulz'd

go, Cori, go.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

102. Defund the Police is a bad platform

Link to tweet