Was Jesus real?

[AmyStrange]

-

Archeologist believe they've unearthed Jesus's childhood home

Archaeologists have unearthed evidence at a place believed to be the historical Jesus of Nazareth’s birthplace.

Researcher Ken Dark, a professor at the University of Reading, has a new book about more than a century of archaeological digs at the Nazareth Convent site in the north of modern-day Israel.

[SNIP]

Dark is an archaeologist with a 30-year career, and he’s worked on digs at the Nazareth site since at least 2004. The big breakthrough he describes in his new book is discovering evidence of a stone house that most likely belonged to Jesus’s family. (The odds are fairly good)

[SNIP]

The debate rages on over whether Jesus was the miracle-doing savior in the origin story of Christianity. But the historical reality, from dozens or even hundreds of pieces of corroborating evidence from all walks of life at the time, is that he was, at the very least, a real guy.

[SNIP]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a34826099/jesus-childhood-home-unearthed/
=============

[tirebiter]

1. A carpenter in a stone house?

Sounds like Fred Flintstone.

[Ilsa]

5. No, no. Fred drove heavy equipment at a quarry. ;-)

[NotANeocon]

27. I thought Fred rode on heavy animals that disappeared before humans arrived?

[Ilsa]

103. Oh, yeah, that was it. The brontosaurus

Moved the rocks around.

[marie999]

129. Wait, weren't the Flintstones a documentary?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. Every single time some "proof" of the existence of Jesus

pops up, it turns out to be fraudulent.

[Drahthaardogs]

92. No.

Even G.A. Wells has changed his mind. They found Pilates tablet and Caiaphas’s ossuary.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

106. Pilate had a tablet back then?

How did he charge it?

In any case, Pilate and Caiaphas are historical figures we already know about. The tablet you refer to makes no reference to Jesus.

A few years back there was something found that supposedly refers to (I may have the name wrong, so forgive me on this) "James, brother of Jesus" which was soon enough proven to be a forgery. Same with the supposed Wife of Jesus Gospel.

There are absolutely no actual legitimate historical documents or contemporary anything that have any verifiable anything about Jesus.

Two thousand years from now, people will uncover fragments of modern day novels, and will conclude, for instance, the Hercule Poirot is a real person, and go nuts trying to find proof he lived.

I'm inclined to think that a more believable explanation is that a group of people about 100 years after Jesus's supposed lifetime who were a member of a particular Jewish cult, got together and concocted a more or less consistent account of his fictitious life and voila! The New Testament.

[Drahthaardogs]

107. And yet the world's leading expert on the Jesus mythology

Theory now unequivocally states that the evidence is clear that a man (probably multiple men) claimed to be the Messiah and preached around the Sea of Galilee. Please, carry on governor

[RobinA]

112. Yes, I Tend To Think

it makes sense that there would be a Jesus person who went around preaching a certain approach to life that would later become Christianity and be bastardized beyond all recognition, but every time I read something about the historical Jesus it seems that no quality evidence of his existence has been found. I mean, I almost find it hard to believe that there wasn't a Jesus-type Christianity forefather.

[jcgoldie]

3. Well where else would you turn for knowledge of antiquity

...than Popular Mechanics...?

[AmyStrange]

6. I know. I was surprised...

-

This is not my father's Popular Mechanics.
===

[onethatcares]

96. I would use achived

Zillow listings for the neighborhood along with a Google Street View and a property card check for work done with or without building permits.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

4. I'm logging this with reports about finding Noah's Ark.

[AmyStrange]

8. Somebody told me that's in Kentucky...

-

under Colonel Sander's old home.
========

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. Ah. The Ark Encounter. The giant wast of tax payers dollars.

They got a boatload of tax breaks to build it. Supposed to have brought tourist dollars and create jobs.
It hasn't.

[AmyStrange]

51. At least the boat builders made money...

-

Maybe they should turn it into a zoo.
==========

[LakeArenal]

99. We knew someone that went searching for the ark.

But didn’t find it. Epic research though

[NotANeocon]

7. Absolute and complete "Drumph Facts".

". But the historical reality, from dozens or even hundreds of pieces of corroborating evidence from all walks of life at the time, is that he was, at the very least, a real guy. "

The closest they ever got to contemporary proof of the existence of the late JC was a passage forged by a bishop in one of historian Josepus' writings.

[AmyStrange]

9. I'd like to see all that corroborating evidence too, but...

-

I'm willing to give Jesus the befit of the doubt.

I don't know whether he was God, but nevertheless, he was a cool guy in my book.
============

[NotANeocon]

22. The late JC always makes me remember Robert A. Heinlein's -

- Stranger in a Strange Land protagonist Valentine Michael Smith.

Of course there were many virgin births and risers from the dead back them. Closest one was probably Mithra though Ra also had a lot of similarities.

All were very cool myths.

[AmyStrange]

26. I have to read that damn book sometime soon...

-

Isn't the stranger supposed to be an alien from another plane?

Some people think JC was an alien.
=============

[Hekate]

123. Nah. He was a human orphan raised by Martians. But clearly a very cool guy...

I remember when the book came out. I think I was maybe starting to go off Heinlein by then, maybe age 20 — but in any case I read it all the way through and it was okay, but not earth-shattering.

Then I started meeting people for whom it was clearly earth-shattering. One evening at a party I met a guy who vowed that he was going to collect up his Water Brothers and move to New Zealand where they would found a Nest. I grokked it all right, while SMDH.

I always wondered if he ever gave any thought at all to the clash of cultures that would involve.

But back to that nice Rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago on Planet Earth. I think it’s kind of pointless to keep looking for his birthplace — it’s much more interesting to follow the tracks of his early believers, because those tracks are verifiable. Someone was the locus of their beliefs, and the teachings fit a pattern of religious and social movements from those days. Other “tracks” involve what may have been influences from the sect called the Essenes, and other groups as far away as India.

[AmyStrange]

127. "...follow the tracks of his early believers..."

-

I like your idea, and it makes sense too, but is anyone doing that?

As far as the stranger, if he was a human orphan raised by Martians on Mars, then he was an alien from another planet.

Just being nit-picky, but thanks for the insight.
==============

[Hekate]

136. Elaine Pagels has put in a lifetime of academic research that I find highly readable...

Quite awhile back I picked up her book “The Gnostic Gospels,” thinking it would involve translations and discussion of the fairly-hot-topic of the day, only to find myself completely immersed in a history of the first 200 years of Christianity as a regional sect growing into a religion that spread along the Roman roads — and why Gnosticism itself didn’t really take root.

I love history, comparative cultures, and comparative religions. In midlife I re-entered grad school in a Mythological Studies curriculum that embraced all of those interests. (Well, to be honest, other people sought and found other things in the program. )

What I’m saying is, Pagels’ books are not devotional works — but neither will they shake the faith of anyone with an open mind. But she surely doesn’t go looking for bits of the True Cross in order to “prove” anything.

[AmyStrange]

141. I remember reading about that book, and...

-

I'm definitely gonna have to go out and get that one now.

Thanks for the info.
==========

[AmyStrange]

18. You threw them away in the garbage by accident.

[AmyStrange]

71. Are you serious?

-

You're kidding, right?

I just said the first thing that came to my head.

It was just a joke.
===============

[AmyStrange]

74. That can't be...

-

I'm really good at finding things, but not long distance.

It's gotta be one hell of a coincidence, but I'm glad you found them.
==========

[AmyStrange]

76. Good advice, but...

-

I have a gambling problem, and unfortunately, I have to avoid things like that.
===============

[AmyStrange]

78. Well then, you should buy me a ticket, and then keep the winnings...

-

or donate it to the ASPCA.
============

[NotANeocon]

24. Not good at material things -

Much better finding inanimate specious stuff like souls and demons.

[COLGATE4]

42. The best they can come up with is that there was

a guy named Yeshua (a very common name) living in CE 1-33.

[Roland99]

125. "They want their money back if you're alive at 33" - Bono

[brush]

54. The Romans/Pontius Pilate kept good records. There must be references to him somewhere in...

historical accounts. I've always believed that such a person existed. Believing the biblical accounts of the virgin birth, the miracles and ascension written many decades later is another matter. They are good stories though.

[Brother Buzz]

67. LOL, It's all spelled out in 'The Gospel according to Pontius Pilate' by James R. Mills

A fictional account of Pilate's story of the trial, conviction, and death of Jesus, and Mills suggests that public officials were disposed to look for an easy way out of moral problems.

It's actually a fun read and reasonably plausible piece of fiction, but the kick in the pants is the forward was written by Edmund G. "Pat" Brown, Jerry Brown's father. James R. Mills was a Democratic California state senator, and really steeped in that Catholicism stuff.

[brush]

72. I have no idea about such a book but an actual Pilate was the governor of Judaea.

[Brother Buzz]

80. Yes, and rumors he retired to a comfortable villa on the Iberian Peninsula

[Drahthaardogs]

94. For years the Jesus mythology side stated Pilate

Was not real because of lack of records. Then about 20 years ago, they found his tablet. Cool story

[onethatcares]

95. was it being charged?

What type of USB connector was it plugged into?

Just making a joke, so please don't take it personal. K?

[Brother Buzz]

124. I'm still trying to determine if Pontius operated aircraft or ships

[edhopper]

12. If this is his birthplace

Then that proves the Bible is wrong. But if there is proof the Bible isn't true, why believe Jesus was real..

Paradox, eh?

[AmyStrange]

14. Because it's fun, and...

-

besides, he was a cool guy.

The Fonz isn't real, but he's still a cool guy.
=========

[edhopper]

17. Yeah

And he sang a few good songs.

[Karadeniz]

13. I have read that there is no evidence of a Nazareth in existence at the time assigned to Jesus. When

Constantine's mother decided to tour the area hundreds of years later, that was when the biblical places and relics appeared. The first digs at Nazareth were sponsored by the Catholic church and much identifying of finds was made based on faith in scripture. A book was written a few years ago by a later independent archaeologist and she contradicted virtually everything the Catholic archaeologists propounded.

There is not a shred of proof for a historical Jesus, at least one as portrayed in scripture. Several teachers of theology, failing to find proof that meets history standards, have become atheists in disappointment. That's a shame because, while the outer level of Christianity has no evidence, the hidden teachings can be verified from many different researches.

[AmyStrange]

15. All good points, but...

-

what gets me wondering is why did the apostles, all of a sudden, decide to start spreading his word?

If the bible stories are true of course, and the apostles actually did exist.
============

[edhopper]

19. or was it just written decades later

by men who weren't there?

[AmyStrange]

21. I think there's a three, four hundred year gap...

-

between when the "alleged" apostles died and the gospels were written, but don't quote me on that.
============

[edhopper]

29. mostl likely written

70 AD to 100 AD, though probably based on an earlier document. But there were other Gospels and probably edited over the next few hundred years.

[AmyStrange]

31. I wonder where they got the gospel stories from...

-

if the apostles never lived.

Some parts of each gospel actually contradict each other, like what happened when JC's tomb was visited on Sunday.

Hell, that's not the only places the bible contradicts itself either.

It does make you wonder, huh?
=============

[greenjar_01]

62. Some parts of Sundays newspapers contradict each other, to be fair

[Karadeniz]

55. I think there may have been a Jesus, but not as described in scripture. Perhaps a psychic medium

Who could communicate with masters on the other side... That still goes on. I'm pretty sure that a whole lot of the Jesus story takes place on the other side... The synoptic gospels really are a masterpiece of symbols. The level of writing and the theology hidden in those writings is not a Jesus-came-to-save-you theology, the theology of Paul's "children." However, it is the theology of the Gnostics. Unless the beliefs of the Gnostics are understood, one simply can't unravel scripture.

Putting Gnostics in charge of Jerusalem central, organizing a missionary system, developing a story that functions on two levels to spread their message...all this would be quite possible with Gnostics in charge rather than a herd of backwater peasants. But Gnosticism didn't begin at the year dot or in Judea. It's immediate predecessor to its Jerusalem mission was probably in Egypt, which is probably why the writers put Jesus in Egypt... a nod to their beginnings.

So why Jerusalem? Why proselytize to the Jews? The Jews of that time were a real pain in the neck to the Romans and, with the Sicarii dragging anyone off the street for an unplanned circumcision (Sicarius, Iscariot), I'm sure lots of "religions" wanted to give the Jews a message to elevate them above their violent tendencies. Well, they didn't have time to accomplish their mission. Jewish War1, Jewish War 2, and that was it, the last straw. The Romans kicked them out of Jerusalem, maybe Judea, and out they stayed for 2,000 years until the nation of Israel was created.

So, I think the apostles, Gnostics, were sent out to give the Jews a Jewish story to make that area of the world more peaceful. Pax Romana, the beliefs by those who'd experienced a Mystery ritual (which Paul called his religion), Gnostic theology.... Lots of people looking at Judea wanted it to change.

[AmyStrange]

70. Wow! That was interesting, and...

-

thank you.
================

[Karadeniz]

56. Yikes...I answered you, but it's later down, #55 I think... Sorry!

[Karadeniz]

57. Yikes...I answered you, but it's later down, #55 I think... Sorry!

[Ligyron]

33. Right, there was no historical Nazareth.

But JC is described as a Nazarene, same cult as Sampson where they didn’t cut their hair or nails. Of course, they both met with bad ends.

Damn hippies.

[Karadeniz]

58. If Christians were aware of descriptions of Jesus's brother, James! Never cut his hair. Vegan. No

Wine. I think he put oil on his body instead of washing. Only ever wore white linen. Knees that looked like a camel's from praying all the time. But, he was much respected, really.

[Ligyron]

109. There ya go.

Early Christians translated being a Naz. into being from a town called Nazareth which didn’t even exist. Until some enterprising someone invented it. Great for tourism, buy wooden articles made by JC himself. It’s like a miracle! all the shekels we made!

[Nevilledog]

16. ...

[AmyStrange]

20. Ok, that's funny!

[NotANeocon]

34. Do you really think -

- hominids had "racial" distinctions back then before the Darwinians invented them?

[dalton99a]

25. +1

[brewens]

50. An LDS church near here has a Jesus pic that looks like a blond haired surfer dude with

followers gathering below him. I packed my blood drive registration gear into this conference room, saw that and couldn't help a laugh escaping! I looked around to see if anyone saw that. Nope. Whew!

[wishstar]

23. Seems like there are always sensational stories like this right before Christmas and Easter

[AmyStrange]

28. That's true...

-

makes you wonder, doesn't it?
=========

[NotANeocon]

40. Strange -

I notice they appear just around the Vernal Equinox and the Winter Solstice!

[wishstar]

53. Dec 21 this year will be rare sight of Jupiter and Saturn merging to become super bright

and the occurrence hasn't happened in 800 years supposedly. This celestial news is more exciting to me than speculation about Jesus' home

https://www.sfgate.com/news/space/article/Jupiter-Saturn-Double-planet-great-conjunction-15763139.php

[joshcryer]

30. The historical Jesus is well documented.

He almost certainly existed.

Whether he did miracles, such as raising people from the dead, is up for debate.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

35. No, he is not.

What documentation do you think exists? Biblical and non-canon scripture certainly doesn't count. Josephus and Tacitus are problematic in that Josephus was almost certainly edited by Christians and Tacitus is ridiculously vague. So are you putting all your hope on Mishnah?

[A HERETIC I AM]

45. Exactly

There’s absolutely ZERO verifiable historical evidence pointing to the idea that anyone close to “Jesus Who Is The Christ “ was an actual person.

None.

If even a mere traveling salesman had written home saying “I saw this really weird crucifixion in Jerusalem “....that would be enough to give credence to the story.

But there is none.

Not a sausage

Bugger all.

God is a myth and Jesus is a fable

It’s well past time humanity grew up, came to terms with the fact that they have been duped and got on with it.

[brush]

59. Isn't Pontius Pilate mentioned in the Bible? The Romans kept good, written records.

Is there no mention of a Jesus in Roman history—not the virgin birth, or miracles and ascension of course?

[joshcryer]

66. There's ample evidence he existed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

[Squinch]

88. From your source:

There is no physical or archaeological evidence for Jesus; all existing sources are documentary. The sources for the historical Jesus are mainly Christian writings, such as the gospels and the purported letters of the apostles. All extant sources that mention Jesus were written after his death.

[AmyStrange]

47. I just think he was a cool dude...

-

even if he didn't exist.

Now if more Christians acted like he "allegedly' acted, instead of just looking for people to bash, then I believe this world would be a much better place.
=======

[Mariana]

60. Jesus was a racist, according the Gospel of Matthew.

Read Matthew 15 : 21-28 to see how hateful he was toward the Canaanite woman because, he said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" and she was of a different ethnicity. When she pleaded with him to help her daughter, he compared her to a dog begging for scraps. Only after she groveled, and agree with his dehumanizing characterization of her, did he relent and heal her child.

[AmyStrange]

83. Could be...

-

if that part is even true.
=========

[Mariana]

84. Like I said, according to the Gospel of Matthew.

Who knows if any of it is true?

[AmyStrange]

85. With everything written about him...

-

that just doesn't fit, but like you said, who knows if any of it's true.

Although, I did read some where that Pontius Pilate was real.
===========

[Peacetrain]

116. Sigh! Yes Jesus was real..

He would be considered a raving left wing lunatic in his time, especially with his embrace and raising up of women.. one of the things that got him murdered.

He never claimed to be God.

Mark the oldest of the gospels, written about 40 years after his death, possibly by someone who actually knew Jesus.. (and Lord only knows how many were thrown out when the bible was finalized about 4 centuries after the death of Jesus).. Mark does not talk of the birth of Jesus.. he was a Man with a Message that all were part of God.

God is in all of us.

There is no magical being who looks like Zeus.. Jesus was the first to address the Abba that is in us all.

The other Gospels are written well after the death of Jesus..written by people who did not know him.. John being the newest gospel in the Bible is so flowery.. and talks more of the magical God.. was written at least a century after the death of Jesus.

Poor old Paul, basically proclaimed himself the 13th apostle.. and he is the one that ties us all up in knots.. the apostles were most likely illiterate.. most likely wrote nothing and if they did, it would not have been in the Greek..

The Abrahamic faiths more grounded in the historical.. they are pretty darned wonderful that way..

[AmyStrange]

121. Jesus was a raving left wing lunatic...

-

just like us here in DU land.

I like that and thank you for posting.
==============

[joshcryer]

130. It was a test of faith. Jesus use rhetoric a lot.

He was being rhetorical by claiming what he did about that Canaanite and tested her faith. She retorted with rhetoric as well.

"Render unto Ceaser" was another famous example. Because Jews weren't supposed to pay taxes back then and he was being asked a rhetorical question that would get him in trouble had he said "Don't pay taxes."

[grantcart]

49. There is substantial evidence that the historical Jesus existed

Also most of what is considered as miracles by modern literal readers are misunderstandings of the original literary intent.

For example the virgin stories in Matthew and Luke were obvious literary devices to frame what follows.

Many of the stories that are understood as miracles today were not written with that intention at the time. For example the fish and loaves story was meant to show how in the moment Jesus teaching on kindness transformed hearts of listeners so that some who prepared lunches shared with those that had not. The story of turning water into wine was meant to show that He had an effect on groups and brought life to a setting that was otherwise dull.

Of course as the community morphed more into one with a resurrection centric focus that part of the mythology became more "miraculous".

[edhopper]

98. There is some evidence

in the writings of a couple of non-Christian writers.
There is not "substantial" evidence.

[sarcasmo]

32. They found the Flying Spaghetti Monster last week.

[AmyStrange]

38. The damn thing escaped from my cellar last night, and...

-

now, I'm gonna have to get my posse together again and hunt it down like the dirty dog it is... umm, I mean the dirty spaghetti flying poop machine that it is.
=========

[NotANeocon]

44. I've always been more partial to Her Horniness the IPU.

that's Invisible Pink Unicorn

[Talitha]

36. Jesus may have been a historical person, but c'mon man!

So was Al Capone - but even Geraldo couldn't find his stash.

[AmyStrange]

39. I remember that episode...

-

two hours of nothing inside an empty vault.

Geraldo will NEVER live that one down.
============

[blitzen]

37. Here is the best book on the subject, by far in my opinion...

John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant


https://www.amazon.com/Historical-Jesus-Mediterranean-Jewish-Peasant/dp/0060616296/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=the+historical+jesus&qid=1606883607&s=books&sr=1-4

[AmyStrange]

41. I read that book. It's very interesting and very informative...

-

Thank you for posting.
=======

[blitzen]

46. Yes, it gives quite a rich account of the whole cultural/historical situation. n/t

[LakeArenal]

43. Whether Jesus was real or not...There is no such thing as divinity.

Unless it’s fudge.

[AmyStrange]

48. I agree, Divine Fudge does ROCK!!!

-

or is that heavenly fudge?
=============

[Karadeniz]

61. Try telling that to us all who've had a sneak peak at the other side. We can't convince you, you

Can't convince us.

[LakeArenal]

97. Nope you can't. Not asking you to believe anything.

[marie999]

137. I was given Demerol to relax me before an operation.

It relaxed me so much my heart stopped. The doctors brought me back. I did not see any light or hear harps or see angels so I guess I know where I am going to end up.

[Dem2]

63. It's a cool sounding word, however

[rickyhall]

52. It's like when people tell me "God is Real." I say, "Where's the evidence?" Crickets.

[AmyStrange]

64. God is gravity...

-

without it, everything would just fly apart.
==========

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. OK, just because someone wrote "Jesus was here" on

a wall. Doesn't prove anything. For all I know it could've been my cousin Jesús.......

[AmyStrange]

68. Could've been your cousin, but...

-

I doubt it.
===========================

[Xolodno]

81. Yes.

The writings of Josephus, granted "embellished" due to a Christian Scribe, confirm that. Aside from a few crackpots, archeologists and historians agree, he existed...but that doesn't confirm the narrative of the New Testament.

We didn't even know King David was an actual historical person until recently when they dug up a stone from the Hittite Empire (I think...memory gets foggy) recording a victory over the "House of David".

Now as for his child hood home....I doubt any of it survived almost four centuries after Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman empire. Its just wishful thinking. The USA is not even three centuries old and we have questions about the validity of Lincoln's Cabin.

Add to that, Christianity was primarily another Jewish Sect. And Idolatry was a big no-no....and one of the largest criticisms of the Pharisees that Jesus had, was their idolatry. The writings from the Apostles make it clear, they were not concerned at all about relics, it meant nothing to them and anyone needing that, was not worth their time. Locations, relics, etc. only became important during Emperor Constantine...prior to that, no one gave a shit.

[AmyStrange]

82. Interesting, and..

-

thank you for posting all that info.
========

[edhopper]

101. But Josephus was written

60 years after the fact and was taken from other sources. So while it is evidence , it is not proof positive.

[Spider Jerusalem]

86. There is no direct, contemporary evidence attesting the existence or historicity of Jesus

there are later forgeries and textual interpolations that are not contemporary, but there's nothing to link an actual historically-attested individual to the figure in the Gospels.

[JesterCS]

87. The man, perhaps

But the myth, I myself, doubt

[Buckeyeblue]

89. No more real than Zeus and the gang

Christians were more than likely a fringe group that needed a messiah to break from Judaism. A few clever writers later you have the gospels and a complicated son of god who could have really had a moment to exert the will of god and escape the cross but instead dies, quietly resurrects and promises to come back again someday. Nice and convenient.

[GoneOffShore]

90. This reminds of the Kudzu thread along with the Olive Garden ones.

Except that kudzu and The Olive Garden actually exist.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

91. Yeah, he's hiding in my basement.

Christo-fascist evangelicals want to kill him.

[AmyStrange]

145. Does he smoke pot?

-

I read an article while ago that postulated he discovered medical marijuana and that's how he was at least able to cure people possessed by the devil.

That's what folks back then thought epilepsy was.
============

[GoCubsGo]

93. He is real, and there are many of him.

A large number of them pick your produce and do other farm work.

As for the guy depicted in the Buybull, yeah. There probably was a guy named, "Jesus." Was he the miracle-working "son of God"? Doubtful. BTW, "Jesus" was a common name back then.

[MoonRiver]

100. My husband, who is Jewish, says Jews call Jesus "a nice Jewish boy."

Based on that I take they do believe he lived.

[DavidDvorkin]

110. No, they do not

At least, not in my Jewish upbringing. Jesus was regarded as a myth, and a silly one.

[MoonRiver]

111. I wasn't born Jewish. That's what he told me.

He was raised by liberal parents, but his maternal grandparents were traditional Jews. Maybe it was a joke.

[DavidDvorkin]

115. Maybe it has to do with the liberal Judaism of his parents

Mine were traditional. In fact, my father was a rabbi.

[MoonRiver]

119. Yes I think that's probably it.

I actually wanted to convert to Judaism after we married, but my husband is not religious, and had no interest in us attending even a reform synagogue. However, we were married by a rabbi, partly because that was his mother's wish. He did light a candle on the anniversary of his father's death for many years. Some of the traditions he followed, but most he ignored. I have to remind him of the high holidays!

[DavidDvorkin]

122. I turned out an atheist who rejects and ignores all of it

That's not uncommon with preachers' kids.

[AmyStrange]

128. I heard somewhere that he's considered a prophet by some in Judaism, but...

-

not the Messiah.

As far as I know, he (or she) hasn't arrived yet.
================

[edhopper]

102. Considering the falsehoods spewed daily by

the President of the United States and embraced by his tens of millions of followers. Why do people have a problem with the idea that a story from the first century AD might be an elaborate fabrication.

If in 2000 years they only have the histories written by Newt Gingrich and Dinesh D'Sousa, should they be proof what is happening now?

[RobinA]

113. I Don't Have A Problem

with the story being an elaborate fabrication, I think it most certainly is. But if there was no Jesus guy, where did Christianity come from? A committee got together and thought up a new philosophy?

[edhopper]

117. There could have been a preacher named Yeshua

from that time. Or several who the gospel writers based Jesus on. Or it was a retelling of myths from that region of a similar figure, since so many parts were typical. Considering much of the early Bible is cribbed from the Babylonian's to create figures like Noah and Moses, that is not far fetched.
I actually think there was a man or men who they used as a basis.
But the thing is, the New Testiment itself is a fabrication.

It's like wondering if Paul Bunyun was based on a real lumberjack.

[IsItJustMe]

148. Christianity came about at the Council of Nicaea

Before that, there were scattered groups of people who called themselves Christians, but their beliefs varied wildly. Some believed in immaculate birth, others did not. Some believed Jesus was God, others did not. Some believed he created miracles, others believed he was just a holy man. Some even believed in reincarnation and were Gnostics.

At the Council of Nicaea, the powers that be got together and determined what their beliefs would be and what they wouldn't be. Kind of like watching sausage being made. What ever books of the bible jived with those beliefs made the cut and they were canonized, hence the Holy Bible. The ones that didn't were left out.

Roman Emperor Constantine got the whole thing together and it is my understanding that bad things happened to you if you didn't go with the program. Whether Jesus existed or not, I have no idea. But if he did exist, I like to think of him in this way:

[Politicub]

104. Maybe. He would have just been a man who co-opted and

merchandised the Hebrew Scriptures in a new way. And writings about him probably collapsed different people doing the same thing into the single figure of Jesus.

Resurrected Jesus is mythology, though. The Bible becomes an acid trip and fever dream after that, with the New Testament culminating in the bonkers book of Revelation.

One of the alleged original members of the band, the apostle Paul, was leveraged by Bible scribes later to codify organized religion’s draconian, sexist and homophobic beliefs. It could be argued that Jesus became a de facto footnote for all intents and purposes.

[AmyStrange]

140. Well, I don't know if the resurrection is real, but...

-

if the stories are true, something made the apostles suddenly go out and start preaching his word.

In my opinion, a resurrection from the dead would definitely do that.
================

[Politicub]

142. Spoiler alert: it's not real.

It’s mythology. That’s all. It is a scientific impossibility.

[AmyStrange]

147. SPOILER ALERT: People have come back from the dead before...

-

It's NOT impossible, but in JC's case, I agree that it might be a mythology.
============

[brooklynite]

105. fireplace portrait? utility bills?

Nothing in the article describes any actual evidence linking the site to Jesus or any presumed relatives.

[AmyStrange]

138. Well, finding it under a convent interesting, but...

-

you're right, the rest is just speculation.
============

[MurrayDelph]

108. As the joke in the 70's said

God is real, unless explicitly declared to be integer.

[AmyStrange]

139. I don't get the joke?

[MurrayDelph]

149. Explained

http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/163171/god-is-real-unless-declared-integer

[mvd]

114. I think so. But at the same time, I think that

the one that the conservative fundies worship is not. He goes against so much of what they spout.

[AmyStrange]

135. THAT is so true, and...

-

thank you for posting.
==========

[Mosby]

118. I think he probably existed.

He was a religious Jew, living in the Jewish homeland of Judea.

[JonLP24]

120. I believe he existed

I just don't buy the supernatural stuff.

[AmyStrange]

132. Someone wrote an article somewhere that postulated that JC discovered...

-

medicinal marijuana and used it to cure many of the people he's credited with saving.

I could see that as possible, because folks with epilepsy back then were considered to be possesed by the devil.

"Here take a toke of this," he'd say and voilà, they were cured.
=============

[lanlady]

126. I'm an atheist but I believe Jesus existed

He was probably a charismatic preacher or ascetic whose teachings resonated with a population that was suffering under the corrupt rule of Herod and his Roman masters.

[AmyStrange]

134. Makes sense to me, and...

-

thanks for posting.
=========

[0rganism]

131. does it matter?

Christians believe he's real and a whole lot of other stuff mixed in with that

Atheists differ on whether the person Jesus existed, but generally don't buy into the "whole lot of other stuff" angle

even if he did exist, it's the "other stuff" making this a popular topic -- many people existed in Palestine during Roman occupation and we don't give much of a shit about the vast majority of them.

who is this study helping?

[AmyStrange]

133. Nope, but...

-

I found it interesting.
=========

[lindysalsagal]

143. Which one? White Jesus? or Black Jesus?

Because he'd have had a horrible sunburn if he looked like northern europeans.....

[AmyStrange]

144. If he did exist, I tend to believe he was probably black or very dark skinned, but...

-

if that was ever proven, a lot of white religious people would probably die of a heart attack.

I say, Good riddance to 'em.
=============