No one can explain "Defund the Police" or "Abolish the Police" as well as activists can.

[StrictlyRockers]

This Defund The Police interview originally got over 3 million views precisely because no one on TV has the will or ability to explain it as well as protesters fighting for it can. Time to reup
@TyHobsonPowell #DefundThePolice

Link to tweet

[PoliticAverse]

1. Thus demonstrating why it's a bad slogan. n/t

[Rorey]

4. Exactly right

If the slogan has to be explained over and over again, it's not good. A whole lot of voters heard the slogan and envisioned a country with no law enforcement, because that's exactly what it sounds like.

[StrictlyRockers]

9. Exactly wrong.

Slogans that make you uncomfortable are the perfect slogans. We're here to make you think about the problem, not just ignore it and sweep it under the rug again like seems to ALWAYS happen with these movements. Not gonna happen here. Get used to the slogan.

[PoliticAverse]

10. No, slogans like that make it easy to dismiss the problem and possible solutions. n/t

[StrictlyRockers]

12. Only if you don't care about the problem.

Is the problem that police are breaking into black people's homes and assassinating them in cold blood? Do we at least agree on that?

Because if you don't, that's probably why you put more energy into opposing a slogan than opposing police brutality. Focus on the issue. Stop bashing Democratic activists.

[PoliticAverse]

13. This is not about "bashing Democratic activists" it's about the effectiveness of a slogan.

Stop denying reality.

[StrictlyRockers]

14. Democratic activists say they love the slogan and it's the perfect slogan.

And they will not even consider changing it. So you are bashing them. Face reality.

[PoliticAverse]

15. Because to you disagreeing is "bashing" - and you wonder why you can't have a productive dialog. n/t

[Cha]

40. Thank you.. that's exactly what's happening

here.

[brush]

21. Stop the naivete. That's the biggest vote loser slogan ever. Ever.

It's a slam dunk given to republicans for their attack ads. And it worked on Nov. 3 as we lost several House seats as several Dem candidates who turned red districts blue in the 2018 blue wave, got tagged with being in favor of "defund the police."

And of course they lost because that slogan at face value says defund the police which means, no money for 911 calls when someone is breaking into you house.

It's just the worse wording possible. We're capable of doing better than that.

[StrictlyRockers]

63. Do you have a single point of data to support this claim?

Or do you simply like to type words?

[brush]

64. 12 of them. 12, count 'em, 12 House seats lost.

It's not that hard, dude. Google is your friend.

Same attack, different candidate.

The Republican Party of Florida ad has falsely claimed a second Democratic House candidate from Volusia County has taken a position on police funding that she has not taken.

An attack on Dolores Guzman, Democratic candidate for Florida House District 27, uses the same language and images as a similar ad against Democrat Patrick Henry, who's running for the House District 26 seat. Both claim the candidates support "defund the police" efforts, with a voice-over claiming, "Here's the proof."

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/26/dolores-guzman-responds-false-defund-police-claims-gop-ad/6039025002/

[StrictlyRockers]

65. If the Dems had embraced the causes of the left, they would have won seats

Instead of losing them. The Dems DID NOT run on Defund.

You have data that proves 12 seats were lost, that's all. The mistake was not embracing the causes of the left. That is why they lost seats. You have nothing that proves your claim.

Try again.

[brush]

66. Is comprehension a problem? No one said Dems ran on defund the police.

Repulicans tagged Dem candidates with it and defeated many of them (see the link). It's a bad slogan that has to be explained and if you're having to explain, you're losing, and the fact that you're saying no one ran on "defund the police" tells me you know it's a dumb slogan, so just admit it.

So is "defund the police" one of the "left policies" you speak of or not? It's certainly not one that I think is smart and I'm a progressive on the left spectrum of the party, but a pragmatic progressive which means one who figures out what will win and what won't, and "defund the police" won't.

[StrictlyRockers]

70. You still have no data to support your claim?

This is a big joke. I have data that does prove my claim.

#Defund helped with voter turnout and also helped encourage voters to vote Dem.

[brush]

71. Are you still with this old argument? We lost 12 House seats, almost our whole...

Last edited Sat Dec 12, 2020, 04:21 AM - Edit history (1)

majority yet you persist. Move on. 126 repugs signed onto a suit that wanted to get rid of democracy here and install autocracy. I have no more time for this old news.

[StrictlyRockers]

72. Good, then you admit you're wrong, and you have nothing to prove this crazy claim.

#Defund helped with turnout and helped the Dems to not lose more than 12 seats due to their own mistakes and poor messaging.

I agree, we should move on now that we both acknowledge that not embracing the causes of the left was a huge mistake for the Democratic Party. Hopefully, they learn from this and do not continue down this path of alienating the base of the party in pursuit of a non-existent "moderate voter".

[Rorey]

25. Sorry, but I'm not willing to get used to losing elections

"Defund the police" hurt us badly.

Obviously we're not going to agree. And obviously I'm not going to get used to a bad slogan.

[Rorey]

30. I think the mistake is in thinking that every voter is willing to invest time and energy

Last edited Thu Dec 3, 2020, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

We need every voter on board.

The thing is, those of us here on DU are obviously more invested in issues than a lot of Americans who vote. We'll put forth the effort to understand a what the slogan is supposed to mean. The average voter isn't going to put forth the effort. The average voter is going to hear the slogan and think the movement is trying to abolish law enforcement.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Hoo boy. No wonder our republic is on the brink of death.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Obamacare is harder to explain

But you still support it right?

Saying something is hard to explain is just an excuse not to take action.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Explaining A Slogan?

Seems inherently contradictory.

[Blue_true]

51. If you are explaining, you are losing.

Honestly, the phrase is one of the dumbest phrases that I have seen in my lifetime, and I have seen some whoppers.

[Squinch]

3. While you're insisting on that slogan, why not shoot yourself in the foot for good measure?

Show us all how it's done, and demonstrate why shooting ourselves in the foot is a really good idea.

[NurseJackie]

19. Correct. It alienates potential allies.

It's a foolish strategy.

[DinahMoeHum]

5. Which is why they have failed to move the needle.

Wanna move the needle, be specific. "Demilitarize Police" would be much better.

They're supposed to be keepers of the peace, NOT soldiers.

[brush]

22. Exactly. De-militarize is good. Anything is better than defund the police which...

says no money for police so forget calling 911 when someone is breaking into your house at night.

[gratuitous]

6. Wa-a-a-a-ait a second

How can we listen to a young black man and hear his story? I can't sit still for 77 seconds to hear what he's saying because I'm too busy explaining to him how his position isn't valid, has the wrong slogan, uses the wrong word or words, gets twisted by people determined not to understand what he's talking about, and requires effort on my part to understand his truth. If only he was older, white, and richer. Then we'd all move heaven and earth to understand what he was saying.

[Silent3]

8. I watched the video. I spent the 77 seconds.

And the fact still remains that it's a slogan that has to be explained. And that's not a good thing for a slogan to require, no matter who invents the slogan. Old rich white guys come up with stupid slogans too, and they're still not good slogans if they hit people the wrong way before an explanation is provided.

As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

[brush]

23. Ya want a slogan that's a positive winner and doesn't have to be explained.

Marketing 101. We can do better than that.

[Klaralven]

7. Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2020, by race

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

There are about 1000 people killed by police per year. About 1/4 are blacks, compared with their being about 1/8 of the population.

[PTWB]

11. Defund the Police is poor marketing but we are stuck with it now.

Might as well roll with it. It’s the right thing to do.

[Demsrule86]

17. Only if you want to lose the house in 22. We should find a better way.

[PTWB]

34. Nah.

We just need to do a better job of selecting candidates in politically competitive districts. If we are getting beaten in those districts because of a poor slogan, we should have picked a stronger candidate to begin with.

The reality is that police departments soak up huge pluralities of municipal budgets. That money would be more effectively spent on treating addiction and programs for the homeless. At a more systemic level we also must address chronic poverty and mental healthcare.

If we can tackle mental healthcare, chronic poverty, addiction and homelessness we will have prevented the vast majority of crime before it ever happened. Everyone’s life would be better and we wouldn’t need to spend so much money on police in the first place.

We are treating the symptom by throwing money at PDs. It’s time we redirected that funding into social programs.

[Demsrule86]

59. Sure...a 'slogan' can destroy the strongest of candidates. That is what you don't see.

The term defund the police should never be used again. You can't explain it and you can't win with it.

[PTWB]

61. Change the narrative.

We really do need to defund the police.

[LanternWaste]

20. What leads you to allege we're stuck with it and it's "the right thing to do"

Can you any peer-review or objective evidence to support your assertions? Or is that an unfair request because...?

[Rorey]

27. We're not stuck with anything

We're not always going to do everything exactly right, and that's when we should analyze and make adjustments. That's what moving forward is all about, and it's imperative in order to make positive changes. I think that's what we all want.

[quickesst]

16. one thing I do know

While rational people on the left are busy trying to explain either what the slogan should mean, or why it is one of the dumbest slogans ever created, imagine the time and resources it has cost that could have been spent on more worthy issues.
It's one of those rare slogans from the left that could give "Get a Brain Morans" a run for its money.

[NotANeocon]

24. "DefundThe police"?It is - and will remain - an inane meaningless slogan without definitive meaning.

There are many many ways of saying "re-purpose Police budgets" but the originators refused to adopt reason.

After being destroyed for years by Frank Luntz and his contribution to "Rethug Daily Talking Points" you would think progressives had at least learned how to do the same and how to recognize and correct when they have royally fucked up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz

[Rorey]

28. I'm thinking it's a pride thing

Sometimes we all have to swallow our pride in order to make positive moves forward.

[NotANeocon]

31. It's a cost thing -

When it costs more to continue than to reboot then the "doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome" definition of insanity applies.

The medium is NOT the message if the message is garbled.

[Rorey]

32. I agree, and the biggest cost is in time and effort

We got too much to do to waste time sticking with the garbled message.

[DSandra]

26. The activist scene needs people with marketing experience

Marketers would never let sayings like that fly. Republicans do a lot better than they should be because they have the big business community behind them, including marketers.

[Blue_true]

52. People with marketing experience don't become street activists, because they have figured out

effective ways to get what they want.

[Blue_true]

53. People with marketing experience don't become street activists, because they have figured out

effective ways to get what they want.

[Demsrule86]

60. And I would add they need experience in winning elections and what it takes.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Which is why "abolish the police" is a better one. It speaks for itself.

[NotANeocon]

33. No it does not speak for itself!

That slogan is so easily co-opted by the well trained opposition that it speaks for the opposition.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. It means what it says tho.

Abolish 'em.

[NotANeocon]

39. Not at 3AM when your house is being invaded by thugs!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. Why, what are the cops going to do?

Take a statement and then not solve it? That's what they do more often than not.

[NotANeocon]

44. Righttt

No reasoning with a person who creates hir own facts.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. Nah, just sharing what I know.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/01/most-violent-and-property-crimes-in-the-u-s-go-unsolved/

Only about half of the violent crimes and a third of the property crimes that occur in the United States each year are reported to police. And most of the crimes that are reported don’t result in the arrest, charging and prosecution of a suspect, according to government statistics.

In 2015, the most recent year for which data are available, 47% of the violent crimes and 35% of the property crimes tracked by the Bureau of Justice Statistics were reported to police. Those figures come from an annual BJS survey of 90,000 households, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of a crime in the past six months and, if so, whether they reported that crime to law enforcement or not.

Even when violent and property crimes are reported to police, they’re often not solved – at least based on a measure known as the clearance rate. That’s the share of cases each year that are closed, or “cleared,” through the arrest, charging and referral of a suspect for prosecution. In 2015, 46% of the violent crimes and 19% of the property crimes reported to police in the U.S. were cleared, according to FBI data.

[Humanist_Activist]

43. What are they going to do? Seriously, these scenarios are so rare and even more rarely end...

well for innocent victims as to not even be worth mentioning. It is not the police's job to ensure the safety of the public, that's a myth.

[sheshe2]

50. 'Thugs'?

‘Thugs’ is a race-code word that fuels anti-Black racism

In a political world, where words are pregnant with moral meanings, language is not innocent of racist content. Race-code words can trigger deep seated feelings of revulsion and give permission to vent frustration on targets lacking economic, social and political power.

Words like “criminals,” “thugs,” “cockroaches” and “sewer rats” can serve to whip up anxiety, fear and to “manufacture consent.”

Such words directed at Black people provide ammunition for white public attitudes, justify mass incarceration, excuse police murder of Black civilians and give license to covert and overt racial discrimination.

With Black people as folk-devils, crises — either concocted or inflamed — are used to manipulate the public into believing that “safety” can be guaranteed by ceding rights to wise politicians and self-restraining police forces.

https://theconversation.com/thugs-is-a-race-code-word-that-fuels-anti-black-racism-100312

Please don't use that word. It is wrong and inflammatory.

[NotANeocon]

54. NO - you will NOT steal my words and language to silence me.

I've watched that language theft game played by the anti-woman / anti-abortion rights thugs for more than 50 years and I am fully aware that the outcome is to leave opponents without words to fight for themselves.

If you actually knew the etymology of the word you would understand why I use it. Your bullshit link is totally without proper proof or reference and therefore without authority.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-thugs-of-india-195436

[sheshe2]

55. Do you ever watch the news?

[NotANeocon]

56. Parse "news"

[sheshe2]

58. "Your bullshit link is totally without proper proof or reference and therefore without authority."

NotANeocon

Your bullshit link is totally without proper proof or reference and therefore without authority.

Hmm. Alrighty then. You don't like my link.

If you actually knew the etymology of the word you would understand why I use it.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-thugs-of-india-195436

Your link is from the 13th century. I am talking about today. Words evolve. So do actions.

Today, the word 'Thugs' means black people. It is never said against a white man.

[NotANeocon]

62. HMMMMM

"Today, the word 'Thugs' means black people. It is never said against a white man."

That might even be accurate in some parts of the USA for this week.

In the rest of the English speaking world (where they do actually speak the English language and not the patois that is used in the US} a word that has had a specific history and meaning since the 13C does not adopt a new meaning on the whim of some unknown who writes an opinion in an internet blog response.

If the "Oxford English Dictionary" were to adopt your claimed meaning I might accept it 10 years from now. Until then it would just be US slang and would retain the historic meaning in my vocabulary.

[AmericanCanuck]

37. Slogans are like jokes

If you have to explain them, they have lost their purpose.

[aidbo]

38. another

Link to tweet

[NotANeocon]

42. Referto Post 37

If it needs explanation then it is a colleague lost.

[aidbo]

45. It is not a slogan, it is a policy demand.

People are demanding that their tax dollars be spent in a way that helps, not hurts, their community.

[Gothmog]

47. Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police

[BGBD]

48. Biden ean explicitly against defund

And won 80 million votes while overperforming democrats across the country.

"Defund" was dumb. It alienates moderates, helps the other side, and makes it easy to dismiss the entire movement.

[maxsolomon]

49. I'm going back to the original slogan:

FUCK THE POLICE.

Does everyone understand that one?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

57. CORRECT.

[SMC22307]

67. It if needs to be explained, it's a shitty slogan.

WHEN will people learn?!?!

[gulliver]

68. Always argue with the other side's fool.

Ignore their best, most persuasive voices if you want to win. Focus attention on the fool. That's what Republicans do with us. It's why I detest street protests. Every batch of protesters has a fool or two. Our opponents cherry pick them; the media covers them. The fools don't understand a simple rule of communication. What you say doesn't matter; it's what other people hear that does.

Fools want their voices heard as much as (perhaps even more than) the solid, persuasive, wise people. A fool will gladly lap up attention, not knowing or caring that they damage their side and suck up its media oxygen. "Defund the police" fools arguably besmirched, possibly permanently, the reputation of Black Lives Matter and set back the liberal/progressive/tolerant/multi-ethnic cause in the election. Likewise, the looter and vandal "moron jerks" (along with devious "false flaggers" ) who occasionally latched onto BLM peaceful protests badly damaged the message of BLM and other peaceful protests.

I don't know there's a solution to be found, really. The media environment makes it difficult to establish effective, wise leaders while attenuating the influence of fools. Self-interested, loud fools with their wide open pie holes thrive. Look at Trump.

[Happy Hoosier]

69. If your explaining you're losing

It sucks, but if you have to explain your slogan, you’re losing.