So, What Are the Side Effects of NOT Getting the Vaccine?

[MineralMan]

People in vaccine trials, in single-digit percentages, have reported some side effects from the current crop of Covid vaccines. Those side effects include fatigue, headache, and a fever. Those are aside from pain at the injection site, which all vaccines have as a side effect. Such side effects were short-term and had no extended impact.

The side effects of NOT getting the vaccine include death, long periods of being on a ventilator, and lengthy hospital stays with a long, slow recovery from the disease.

Compare the two...I'll wait...

I think I'll be getting my vaccination as soon as I possibly can. Really.

[Klaralven]

1. I can't recall ever having had a side effect from a vaccine

I get the annual flu shot and I've had various other booster shots from time to time.

[MineralMan]

2. I generally have a sore arm for a couple of days

from the flu shot. I don't really consider that to be a side effect, though. I mean, someone pumped some liquid into my arm with a needle. I'd expect that to hurt a little.

But no other side effects.

However, I had awful side effects from a two-stage Plague vaccination while in the USAF. They just about sent me to bed for a couple of days, but I pushed through them. Not many people get a Plague vaccine, though.

[LiberalArkie]

25. I never have any pain or side effects from flu shots, but--- this years seniors dose really hit me

[MineralMan]

26. Yeah, the high dose flu shot hurts more

for a couple of days, for sure.

[LiberalArkie]

27. I think everything is geared to putting old farts like me out of our misery and maybe saving social

security some money.

[MineralMan]

29. Yeah, probably not really.

[genxlib]

4. Have you had the shingles vaccine?

It was like someone punched me in the shoulder for a few days. The injection spot turned into a knot about the size of a golf ball and heated up. I checked it with a temperature gun and it was 7 degrees hotter than the surrounding skin. General fatigue to boot.

Still way better than getting the illness.

[Klaralven]

10. No, I haven't. I plan to get it next year.

[rzemanfl]

20. I can't even get on the waiting list for it. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Same Here

Flu, right arm. Nothing.
Shingles, left arm. Felt like i fell and landed right on the point of the shoulder.
Then in 2 days it was like it never happened.

[OriginalGeek]

34. my doc finally gave me a prescription to get it yesterday

I've already had Bell's Palsy several years ago and not long after that I started getting a recurring shingles outbreak but they wouldn't give me the vaccine while I had an active outbreak and they thought I was too young for it at first (even though I already had it) (I was 48 or 49 tyhen. I'll be 57 next week).

As shingles go I have been pretty lucky though - it's a small spot on back side right above my butt crack and only shows up once every 1 or 2 years so even though it hurts like a mofo right where I sit at least it isn't a huge area or up near my eyes like some folks get.

But I will be getting the vax shot soon.

I got my first ever flu shot this year - just never really thought I needed it before but our company made them available at no charge so I got one. This year is not the year to be messing around all tough guy "I don't need no flu shot" lol.

I'll be getting the covid vax as soon as they let me.

[beachbumbob]

7. you are lucky. My wife took the pneumonia vaccine 3 years ago and ended up 2 hours in the ER

as she had every BAD side effect, including hallucinations, blurred vision and rapid heartbeat. Initial thought was she was having a stroke

[Klaralven]

11. I've had two different pneumonia vaccines

[MineralMan]

14. Yeah, me too.

No side effects for me.

[Demsrule86]

13. I have heard that this is a bad one...you will feel quite ill the next day...but still it is worth

it not to get this virus.

[liberal_mama]

28. I've always gotten side effects from every vaccine, but I get them anyway because I fear flu more!

I'm super sensitive to everything though. I can't even take ibruprofen or Aleve.

[we can do it]

40. I haven't had anything other than a day of fatigue from Shingrix vaccination.

And a little pain around injection site for both of them.

[Silent3]

3. Every stupid anti-vaxxer will play up every post hoc ergo propter hoc they can find

It's so annoyingly predictable, and it will be done without any regard for the tens or even hundreds of thousands of live saved, all the suffering prevented, all of the hundreds of thousands to millions of people without lasting damage from COVID.

And yes, for me too, that vaccine is going straight into my arm at the soonest possible moment.

[MineralMan]

6. Exactly. The push to come up with vaccines for COVID-19

occurred because the disease is so freaking deadly and contagious. The vaccines that will be available are apparently very, very effective in providing immunity to those who are vaccinated.

Very few side-effects have been reported, and all were mild and short-lived.

Testing was accelerated due to the magnitude of the pandemic, but testing followed standard protocols and was carefully controlled.

There is every reason to get vaccinated against this deadly virus, and no reason at all to skip the vaccination.

It could save enormous numbers of lives.

I have little patience for those who would put stumbling blocks in front of people whose lives could be saved. No patience, really.

[beachbumbob]

9. the clinical trials on under 12 yrs of age and on those high risk over 65 yr people yielded what?

[Sgent]

16. They haven't completed

pediatric testing yet, and they will be the last ones (since they are the least likely to get / experience effects from the disease).

The Oxford vaccine had an unrepresentative sample for over 55, but they haven't applied for approval yet in the US and are expanding their trials.

The Moderna & Phizer oversampled the geriatric age group and found nothing different than the normal adult population. The real worry with older adults is they will produce fewer antibodies / less resistance and it won't last as long. Only time can answer that question.

[MineralMan]

17. I don't believe they tested on children at all.

What do you mean "high risk over 65?" High risk of what? I'm 75, and I'm at a very high risk of complications from the COVID-19 virus. That's why I'm eager to get vaccinated, and will as soon as I can.

[Klaralven]

19. PFIZER AND BIONTECH CONCLUDE PHASE 3 STUDY OF COVID-19 VACCINE CANDIDATE, MEETING ALL PRIMARY EFFICA

PFIZER AND BIONTECH CONCLUDE PHASE 3 STUDY OF COVID-19 VACCINE CANDIDATE, MEETING ALL PRIMARY EFFICACY ENDPOINTS

...

To date, the Data Monitoring Committee for the study has not reported any serious safety concerns related to the vaccine. A review of unblinded reactogenicity data from the final analysis which consisted of a randomized subset of at least 8,000 participants 18 years and older in the phase 2/3 study demonstrates that the vaccine was well tolerated, with most solicited adverse events resolving shortly after vaccination. The only Grade 3 (severe) solicited adverse events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first or second dose was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0% following dose 2. Consistent with earlier shared results, older adults tended to report fewer and milder solicited adverse events following vaccination.

...

The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020. Approximately 42% of global participants and 30% of U.S. participants have racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds, and 41% of global and 45% of U.S. participants are 56-85 years of age. A breakdown of the diversity of clinical trial participants can be found here from approximately 150 clinical trials sites in United States, Germany, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Argentina. The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

The clinical trials did not include children under 12. They are not in the groups targeted for early use of the vaccine. They also very rarely get severe Covid-10 cases.

[MineralMan]

23. Facts? You have facts?

That's sure to confuse the vendors of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Facts are sort of embarrassing if you're trying to make people worry about things.

BTW, thanks for the link!

[Klaralven]

33. And they are so easy to find!

I'm still continually awed at how easy it is to find valid information on the internet.

As opposed to having to ask a library to do an inter-library loan for an obscure title, or knowing which friend had the right journal subscription, or which lab might have the right manufacturer's data sheets...

[MineralMan]

35. Yes. Google will lead you to valid information,

as well as bogus information. The trick is knowing how to select the source to visit. It's not difficult, though. For example, a Pfizer press release is probably a good source for information on its research and products. So is the FDA, CDC, or any of the major medical information sites.

NewsMax, however probably won't have any useful information, nor will websites that sell homeopathic remedies.

Legitimate scientific publications like Nature, New Scientist, and a number of others are also useful for their interpretations of scientific studies. Reddit, however, is probably not going to provide you with accurate information, in most cases.

[Klaralven]

37. Not all press releases would be equally reliable

But in this case, I think it very unlikely that Pfizer would fudge numbers in a press release about it's trials when it has to also provide the trial data to the FDA for vaccine approval.

[MineralMan]

38. There's a lot of rigor involved with such trials.

Once you remove the influence of political people from the process, you have people doing science. Not that there aren't pressures put on them, but the risk is very high if you don't exercise rigorous standards in such closely watched vaccine trials.

[NurseJackie]

5. Injection site soreness?

You should see MY arm whenever I get a flu shot. I bruise like an over-ripe peach. It's always sore.

I think I'll be getting my vaccination as soon as I possibly can. Really.

Same here.

[MineralMan]

12. I've had the flu a few times. It sucks.

A sore arm is a minor annoyance in comparison.

I just don't get the whole fear of vaccination thing, I guess. I also don't get people who try to spread fear of vaccines. Neither makes any sense at all.

[Demsrule86]

15. Me too.

[mwooldri]

8. You and me both.

I'll get the jab when it becomes available to me. Yes there is work being done on an antiviral drug that can help treat the virus once you caught it but that's still in the animal testing stage. Plus they say prevention is better than cure...

[uponit7771]

18. Or ascribe to the minimum CDC NPIs?! Not everyone can take the vaccines right now. I don't think we

... should be demonized for it in any overt or subtle way.

[Nay]

21. I'm first in line, too. It's ridiculous to not get vaccinated. But there are millions -- MILLIONS --

who think the virus is a hoax, or trackers will be installed along with the vaccine, or doctors don't know anything and Alex Jones is the smartest guy in the room.

This country is going to go down hard -- propaganda (and I include advertising in that category) and 24-hour projection of absolute nonsense into our heads has turned us into malleable idiots. Schooling has no chance against the firehose of shit coming from places like Facebook, Twitter, Google.

[NurseJackie]

22. The only side effects of not getting the vaccine involve:

Last edited Fri Dec 4, 2020, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

-- spreading the virus to loved ones
-- spreading the virus to innocent strangers
-- hospitals
-- ICU units
-- respirators
-- last rites
-- saying goodbye by Facetime

Industries that benefit from the anti-vax kookiness:

-- Respirator manufacturers
-- Undertakers
-- Grave diggers
-- Casket manufacturers / Vault manufacturers
-- Crematories
-- Urn fabricators
-- Brass plaque foundries
-- Marble and Granite gravestone producers
-- Churches, chapels, cemetery groundskeepers,
-- The floral industry.
-- Embalming chemicals industry.
-- Funeral Home hair-and-makeup artists
-- Hallmark and other sympathy card printers

[MineralMan]

24. Thank you for the informative lists.

Those vaccines look pretty good in comparison.

[we can do it]

42. Thank you!

So tired of the irresponsible, anti-science idiots.

[GusBob]

30. So what are the "concerns" with the COVID-19 vaccine?

I'm hearing its big Pharma

or it has been "rushed thru" without full study by the FDA

Or it was fast tracked by Trump admin or somethin' -somethin' Trump

In my opinion the benefits for outweigh the risks.

And as far as the FDA, the agency that wont reclassify marijuana so it can be studied, AND sits on excellent medications for years while they go thru phase after phase of burdensome trials which make necessary medical treatments too expensive to develop? Well its about time to fish or cut bait, its a goddamned emergency

[MineralMan]

32. The stated "concerns" from most of those who express concern

are vague and not supported by any factual information. It's the same thing with all vaccines, really.

There are some people for whom vaccines are suspect, just on principle. Their arguments, however, never make any sense from a scientific point of view, nor are they ever supported by any real evidence.

It's all just FUD.

[Pobeka]

36. How many long term health studies are there for this new class of mRNA vaccines?

As far as I can tell, there are none. It appears to be similar to a technique used in cancer treatments.

My current take on it -- it's probably worth getting the vaccine, but still it's an open question on long term health impacts as far as I personally know right now. I'll trust Fauci's recommendation in the end.

[LisaL]

39. Once vaccine enters the body, it should be quickly degraded.

It's not even stable at room temperature for long, let alone body temperature.
Which hopefully means no long term side effects.

[MineralMan]

41. The word "new" is your clue.

However, the principles of how these vaccines work is pretty well-understood. It's probably the beginning of a new way to create vaccines that will affect all of them over time.

Developing an immune response to a particular, crucial infective element of a virus is a far more precise way to create vaccines. I suspect that's where vaccines are headed.

Long-term studies will have to wait for the long term. There's no way to study that without actually putting the vaccine into wide use. The emergency is real and we need protection from this virus. It looks like the mRNA approach is providing a strong response in patients and that genuine immunity is generated. We don't know for how long, because that is impossible to predict. We will know, though, over time.

Given how these vaccines work, I don't see much of a chance for adverse long-term effects from it. The real question is whether we will need continuing vaccination for this particular virus. That will not be answered for quite some time. First, we have to get as many people as possible vaccinated to stop the continued elevated risk from COVID-19. Novel viruses are an ugly threat to the population, since we have no natural immunity to the disease.

[Pobeka]

43. I agree with all of that. Only time will tell of unintended long term consequences.

It's well out of my depth to understand deep details of how these work.

I understand fundamentally it's like injecting a customized virus to take over the cell's reproduction factory and produce these little COVID19 protein spikes.

I can only suspect (at this time, without further reading ), that there may be other components to the injection I don't know about. And even at that, I would probably only get a layperson idea of the whole process. A biology background helps me somewhat, but this stuff is deep into cellular mechanics. But I'm a curious type, so I will keep reading.

Thanks for your response.

[MineralMan]

44. Not a virus. Just the spike protein itself is in the vaccine.

That is enough to trigger an immune response to that protein. The immune system reacts and learns how to manufacture antibodies to that specific protein, which identifies the spikes on the coronavirus. The second vaccination signals the immune system to respond again to the foreign protein. It learns and "remembers" how to make the antibodies quickly and in ample quantities.

Once it learns that, it can respond to an actual coronavirus infection with a surge of antibodies that attack the virus's ability to interact with human cells to reproduce itself.

How long does the immune system "remember?" That's unknown. We'll learn more about that over time. It could be a lifetime immunity, or it could last for months or years. Only time will give us that information. As the pandemic fades away over time, we may not need the enhanced immune response eventually. Or, it may be something we have to continue to be immunized against once a year for many years to come. Again, we won't know until time has passed.

This is relatively new science. It's still being explored and our understanding of it is growing. What is learned from the coronavirus vaccine could well be very useful with other viral infections. It could signal a new way to protect ourselves from many viral diseases, eventually.

[Pobeka]

45. Nope. mRNA has to hijack the cell's factory to produce the protein. read this:

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/10/21/how-pfizers-rna-vaccine-works-15104

This is why I simplified and called the mRNA a custom virus. It *has* to get into your cell in order for the cell itself to produce the protein spike. mRNA is like a blueprint for cellular factory that tells it how to produce a particular protein.

What is flawed in my custom virus analogy, is in that the mRNA doesn't cause the cell to make another copy of the mRNA itself, it creates the protein spike, and the protein spike itself is not capable of reproducing itself, stopping the chain of reproduction. A "normal" virus of course causes the cell to make more copies of the virus.

[watrwefitinfor]

46. Autoimmune disease?

Has anyone seen information about side effects or reactions of any of the Covid-19 vaccines and autoimmune diseases?

I'm interested specifically in psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis/inflammation, etc. I can't find much out there, and a lot of what I do find seems to be on anti-vaxxer sites.

Wat

[MineralMan]

47. I have no information on that at all.

[ahoysrcsm]

48. I'm getting one when they offer it at work.

I was running late to an appointment and passed up getting the flu shot. When I got back, they had already left for the day.